leafan Posted January 27, 2020 Posted January 27, 2020 35 minutes ago, Medzomorak said: Corporations can also be quite waterheaded as the management grows itself but it is very true that Lego has always had a hard time to get along with the changes in the world. This Hidden Side Application stuff is just another example. Outsourcing is actually not a bad idea if you really have a talented fanatic doing the job. For example Lego animations were always cringey and simply low level in quality, until they've outsourced advertistments to BrotherhoodWorkshop. All the better stop-motion Lego videos is mady by him if you check the official Lego YT channel as well. These are 100% better than those digital animation ones. Just like old dioramas compared to new catalogs. Of course all of your arguments about set counts and spacing was true, but I think creating emotions and feelings are more important. But that's just me talking. think a similar approach would be profitable for Lego if someone would take the time to create up-to-date dioramas for a hobby until Lego recognizes the potential for some albums or even extended catalogs. Wow those trailers are so cool. I must show the Raid Shadow Legnds one to my boy. Quote
Medzomorak Posted January 27, 2020 Author Posted January 27, 2020 (edited) 35 minutes ago, leafan said: Wow those trailers are so cool. I must show the Raid Shadow Legnds one to my boy. Agree. This is already somewhat revisionist considering that Lego made similar stop motion commercials with dioramas and I still think those were the best. Not so often Lego still creates commercials like this, there was a Ninjago thing where kids were playing outside in the garden. I think these are the better ones for kids I mean present day animations are just truly cheap and low-quality, unlike the cinema movie versions. But those are very expensive again so my opinion would chose dioramas as a winner again. Edited January 27, 2020 by Medzomorak Quote
Mylenium Posted January 28, 2020 Posted January 28, 2020 14 hours ago, Medzomorak said: Outsourcing is actually not a bad idea if you really have a talented fanatic doing the job. But that's not the reality of marketing/ advertising/ media agencies and production companies, unfortunately. You pitch an idea and whoever has the best idea vs. a for the client acceptable budget gets the gig, regardless whether he actually cares for the product. It's just a job like any other, any myths about the "creative industry" notwithstanding. Mylenium Quote
Toastie Posted January 28, 2020 Posted January 28, 2020 On 1/27/2020 at 6:48 PM, Mylenium said: Once you cut out all this crap about a traditional family enterprise they are just like any other big corporation with the same wrong priorities, issues and shortcomings. You could in fact be cynical and almost say that LEGO making a show about their values makes it actually worse. You know, this is where the reality of The LEGO Company as it exists today cannot hold up to the myths and legends of the past. This. I believe this is the core of the matter. The remaining issues (cutting corners, time required for building dioramas etc. pp.) all fall under these restrictions. 1600 million USD in operative profit. And no time for building dioramas? No way. They could make decisions into that direction, but they don't; because the uncountable folks in administrative departments cannot envision that. TLG has become very big. And all the very big companies I happen to have research contracts with - perform as @Mylenium has very nicely summarized. No exceptions. I also do believe in the power of legals today. Yes TLG has for sure have to clearly show what actually is in the box. And dioramas don't. However, they are highly inspiring - in the past I actually tried to steal some of their ideas - and always was short of bricks, because they were so huge. They are royally cheating () in the new catalogs as well. I just grabbed one of the 2020 January - June catalog at Smyth's today. Look very carefully: You can clearly distinguish the rendered bricky stuff from the background; however, the background is very carefully selected, nicely rendered or real stuff (but manipulated) as well. The set renders are very carefully using lighting to match the background appearance. Snow, water, rivers, trees, the moon, stars, under water worlds etc. - all carefully set-up in a way that makes the set look part of the background and often huge. And much more, as it really is (when you take the background away). Oh that is fine, it is how things are done today, I am fully aware of that. People like that. It makes them feel better. Dioramas were brickbuilt for the same thing - but there was a difference. Tyres did not throw dirt around, guns had not bullets flying straight out, with a nice trail of smoke, minifigs were not twisting in a golden whirl of whatever, and boats on a river had no bow wash. Which makes it necessary today to have a tiny, tiny text below the "picture" saying: "Boat does not float" because it actually looks like it does ... Yes, this is the world of today. Created by people who may not know anymore what the idea of LEGO really - well - was. Other than: "Make it look cool, watch out for the legals, and let's see how that stuff sells. It is as it is ... people seem want it that way, otherwise it would not work so nicely. Revenue-wise that is. All the best Thorsten Quote
Toastie Posted January 28, 2020 Posted January 28, 2020 Yes it is! Wonderful idea!!! Problem for me though: I do build - well ... freestyle - so for me it is "rewarding" to have the Mindcraft folks hanging out around a StarWars diorama built from a StarWars Advent Calendar items ... and a number of other bricks. I guess this does not count as diorama for LEGO sets. Hmmm. Maybe it does: For the 201X StarWars Advent Calendar In any case: Your proposal is brilliant! I shall borrow the digital camera from my daughter ... All the best, Thorsten Quote
Mylenium Posted January 29, 2020 Posted January 29, 2020 13 hours ago, GREG998 said: Time to make a good diorama? I'm pretty sure some a lot of skilled people on Eurobricks could make awesome things with the sets to be involved in half an hour. You arguably could, but would it meet the client's expectations and conform to the ideas how he wants to see his products presented? That's ultimately the crux of it. You could be an experienced MOC builder and get accolades and prizes for your stuff on exhibitions or here on this forum, but you may utterly fail in a commercial environment. Trust me, I've been in the graphics/ media business for more than 25 years now and it's all about nitpicking over details, not actually making something grand in the way you may think... Mylenium Quote
Medzomorak Posted January 29, 2020 Author Posted January 29, 2020 5 hours ago, Mylenium said: You arguably could, but would it meet the client's expectations and conform to the ideas how he wants to see his products presented? That's ultimately the crux of it. You could be an experienced MOC builder and get accolades and prizes for your stuff on exhibitions or here on this forum, but you may utterly fail in a commercial environment. Trust me, I've been in the graphics/ media business for more than 25 years now and it's all about nitpicking over details, not actually making something grand in the way you may think... Mylenium I think the best way is to do it as a hobby. Value is created in the long-run, like the BrotherhoodWorkshop dude. He started it for his own fun, thats why value was created. I myself plan to do classic pirates dioramas similar to old catalog ones in the future for sure, only I need to collect more items for it. If Lego would find to like later on that's just a bonus. Quote
Driver Brandon Grumman Posted January 31, 2020 Posted January 31, 2020 On 1/29/2020 at 5:39 AM, Mylenium said: You arguably could, but would it meet the client's expectations and conform to the ideas how he wants to see his products presented? That's ultimately the crux of it. You could be an experienced MOC builder and get accolades and prizes for your stuff on exhibitions or here on this forum, but you may utterly fail in a commercial environment. Trust me, I've been in the graphics/ media business for more than 25 years now and it's all about nitpicking over details, not actually making something grand in the way you may think... Mylenium You're hired! I need you to help me do the ultimate guide to Poodaville! Poodaville is my town. Quote
Toastie Posted January 31, 2020 Posted January 31, 2020 Just now, Brandon Pea said: Poodaville Ha! I ... knew ... it. "Pooda" has become "Brandon Pea" ... so: Call me "Inspector Columbo" from now on This is all so much fun here ... I love it. Personally, I really would like to see Poodaville. It must be fun to go there. You are so much (and with real spirit) into City ... I am sure it must be fun to go there. I am preparing my "setup" ... it is "Crazy City" (CC), I guess. And I am sure you'll like it as well, as you are no concrete head. Takes time though. But will happen. All the very best, Thorsten Quote
Driver Brandon Grumman Posted February 1, 2020 Posted February 1, 2020 1 hour ago, Toastie said: Ha! I ... knew ... it. "Pooda" has become "Brandon Pea" ... so: Call me "Inspector Columbo" from now on Yup! Bother! My cover has been blown. Well....it was inevitable that it would come out someday. 1 hour ago, Toastie said: Personally, I really would like to see Poodaville. It must be fun to go there. You are so much (and with real spirit) into City ... I am sure it must be fun to go there. It'll be up soon enough. Right now, I'd have to give you the dreaded response.......its on my desk. So I haven't enough room at the moment. When I get my Lego room, it'll come up much faster. Yup! City is probably THE best Lego theme out there for town planners. Modulars are good too. But that's for serious Lego town planners. I'm just a rookie. 1 hour ago, Toastie said: I am preparing my "setup" ... it is "Crazy City" (CC), I guess. And I am sure you'll like it as well, as you are no concrete head. What's your City like? Quote
Mylenium Posted February 1, 2020 Posted February 1, 2020 9 hours ago, Brandon Pea said: You're hired! Not really. I'm way too slow a builder. That's why I do graphics, not LEGO for a living. You have to know what you're good at, which is basically what I'm saying. It often seems that people just imagine that in a commercial environment people could live out their craziest fantasies, just with more resources, which isn't how this works. Most of the time at least, anyway. It's that "be careful what you wish for" thing. Mylenium Quote
Medzomorak Posted February 1, 2020 Author Posted February 1, 2020 46 minutes ago, GREG998 said: Tell me it's not gorgeous: https://www.instagram.com/p/B7t2Tw8J9xZ/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet Yes! I'd love to see these things made of existing mini sets in catalogs. Quote
Capparezza Posted February 1, 2020 Posted February 1, 2020 I was pondering about that topic a lot lately. A lot of valid points have been made. And yes, I too think that it is about money why LEGO discontinued showing dioramas. And another yes, I too think that nowadays dioramas are not suitable for the target group LEGO has in mind. But I think the issue is: Look at how many sets have been made back in the 80ies and 90ies. I may not have correct numbers, but the instruction listings over at brickinstructions.com are as follows: Year - Sets - Catalog style 1992 - 73 instructions - lots of dioramas, each set has it's own product box 1995 - 66 instructions - Uff, even Belville and Paradise have their dioramas. And hell, they are good! Product boxes still there. 1998 - 201 instructions - one or two dioramas, but mostly digital backgrounds, product box concept weakened but mostly still there 2019 - 397 instructions - CGI backgrounds, front to back So, according to the numbers, my guess is that it's not making sense to build dioramas anymore because of the shear volume of new sets every year. What do you think, might this be a factor too? Quote
Medzomorak Posted February 2, 2020 Author Posted February 2, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, Capparezza said: So, according to the numbers, my guess is that it's not making sense to build dioramas anymore because of the shear volume of new sets every year. What do you think, might this be a factor too? I'm not sure if this list is well weighted by excluding a lot of very small sets like polybags and so on. Even the catalog doesn't list them all so while I think it is an interesting aspect which should be noted for sure it is not a great issue that would stop Lego in diorama creation. Again, with dioramas the point is not to present all the buyable sets as dioramas - by their own nature - are a mess. They are to showcase the vast options of certain themes and generally the Lego system. This is why Lego has always been saying 'Each set sold separately' in ads where everything was mixed together. I don't know about the average IQ of the buyers today, but realizing that dioramas are not full sets was not that hard back in the days, not even for 5 years old kids. Maybe the whole diorama thing gave too much of an expert and expensive model kit feeling (which I've always loved personally) and some parents were discouraged to buy them for their kids by that. But that's just mere speculation. Edited February 2, 2020 by Medzomorak Quote
Capparezza Posted February 6, 2020 Posted February 6, 2020 Well, I'm pretty sure the "list" is not weighted at all. This was all just an educated guess at what might be another reason to not do dioramas anymore And heck, just as you said it: Polybags haven't been in the catalogs and so they have not been in the dioramas back in the days, so no reason to include them anyway. (BTW: If I recall it correctly, they are still not in any catalogue today) I can't recall if that sentence "Each set sold seperately" was in any German language catalogue. I'd wager it was not, definitely didn't notice it back in the days. Hmmm.... Quote
Toastie Posted February 6, 2020 Posted February 6, 2020 On 2/2/2020 at 2:20 AM, Medzomorak said: I don't know about the average IQ of the buyers today, but realizing that dioramas are not full sets was not that hard back in the days Heehee ... love it. Guess it is more type of visual perception rather than IQ isn't it? When they did the original StarWars Triology (Part whatever to whatever, I mean the real thing), I thought I was in space. It was beyond belief. As in real life. When I watch them today, I am still excited - but phew. When Luke does the DeathStar run ... it looks like a Commodore64 game. Just saw the latest SW piece ... now story-wise it just goes on and on and on - chasing in canyons seems to be an eternal fact in the universe ... but: It was like ... real. So yes. It may be money, it maybe cost ... but I also believe you don't want to look like living in the past (as I certainly do - and apparently some AFOLs around here as well) It may be just up-to date. As they do now in their youth ... All the best Thorsten Quote
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