Fixing the Wiener Linien Tramway

[legotownlinz]

Warning: If you dislike modifying or gluing bricks, you should stop reading at this point. 

The Wiener Linien offer several Lego models in their fan shop, including the tramway E1 and the trailer. They are made by DerKlassiker.

A pic of the real tramway is available at https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/af/30_Stammersdorf.jpg/2560px-30_Stammersdorf.jpg.

There are three issues with these models, the second one being severe if you want to run it on your layout:

• They are unstable, which is fine for display, but not for playing.
• It uses part 6092658 (bearing element 2x2) and a 1x1 brick with knobs together with small train wheels. The distance between ground and the bearing element is not large enough for the tramway to run over switches. It gets stuck.
• The wheels are rough-running and jarring. A single motor is barely able to move the tramway.

Thus I modified the model a little bit. 

First, I removed 1.6 mm (half of a plate height) from the bottom of the bearing elements and the 1x1 bricks using a CNC mill (Stepcraft 600). You can see a the milling here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCAWKObQn_U.

Below are the modified parts:

To make the model robust enough for playing I glued together all parts shown below:

The drawbar between the tramway and its trailer is to high to pass switches, too. Fortunately, this can be fixed be removing the bottom plate. To remain stability, I used glue again:

I've used a special glue for ABS plastic:

To make the tramway run smooth, I used the machine grease shown below. According to the instructions it is suitable for plastic. The results are really stunning the, a single motor is enough, even for inclines and the noise is pleasant:

Btw, the grease is also highly recommend for the Lego 60097 City Center's tramway, which has the same wheel issues. I've used it on all my models with small train wheels.

 

 

 

 

Edited January 28, 2018 by legotownlinz

[Pelzer117]

I agree with your critic points, but I personally trying to find a „LEGO“ solution 

even because most of us won‘t have access to the needed CNC mill

Regards from Linz

Edited July 22, 2018 by Pelzer117

[Lazertron]

Thanks for your valued insights, Legotownlinz. I built this model just a few days ago and haven't had the chance to test it on the tracks yet, which would have given me quite a surprise. I will also have to find a 'LEGO Solution' before making the test run. And also greetings from Linz ;)

[Pelzer117]

Hello Lazertron,

another LEGO fan from Linz with the Vienna Tram. We should start a suppurt group (Selbsthilfegruppe).
But just to be serious, I can share with you my Mecabricks Modell and maybe we will find a good solution for us all?

Currently I am working on a new motor concept for the tramway. And I am freaking out. Inspired by the solution of ScotNick for his 4041 I start working, unitl I realize that the "small train wheels" are not made for the technix axle (red on picture). It HAVE TO BE so small when you look at the pictures from the original E1. But I am afraid that there are no better LEGO wheels - so I can't use a motor (the "Der Klassiker" solution with motor looks ugly). Any suggestions?

[supertruper1988]

You could get some 3d printed that have an axle insert?

[ScotNick]

I think the wheels are too small so the the toothed gear will touch part of the rails when running over switches...

[Lazertron]

1 hour ago, supertruper1988 said:

You could get some 3d printed that have an axle insert?

... or even better: @legotownlinz is so kind to modify our needed bricks at a local Linzer Train meeting for a Seidel or two 

[Pelzer117]

1 hour ago, Lazertron said:

... or even better: @legotownlinz is so kind to modify our needed bricks at a local Linzer Train meeting for a Seidel or two 

"Da wär ich dabei!" (I am in)

But as Nick said, the small wheels are not perfect for smooth drive. We would need wheels between the small and normal ones.

3 hours ago, supertruper1988 said:

You could get some 3d printed that have an axle insert?

If you tell me where to find. My printer is only for A4

[Lazertron]

Would be nice to have a meeting at 1er Umkehrschleife in Dornach (Burgerista) or 3er Umkehrschleife (Mühlkreisbahnhof - is there a pub close by?) nonetheless to talk LEGO trains and DerKlassiker specifically 

Edited July 23, 2018 by Lazertron

[legotownlinz]

When is this meeting? Or if its just you & me or three of us, send me a personal message. Btw, are there Lego fan meetings in Linz?

It would be nice if there's a Lego-only solution, but the model has so many issues that I think it will need a complete redesign to get a good solution. I fixed it the easy way. ;-)

Edited July 23, 2018 by legotownlinz

[ColletArrow]

An interesting problem! 

16 hours ago, Pelzer117 said:

Until I realize that the "small train wheels" are not made for the technix axle (red on picture).

I think you could replace the technic axle with a 6L hose. I've done a little testing and discovered that one will fit in the socket on the wheel, although the clutch power isn't great so something like blu-tack (or even glue) might be needed to hold it in place. A bar is also possible, but the hose has slightly better friction. Any other technic part (gear, bushing etc) should have enough clutch to stay on the axle, but again may benefit from a little blu-tack. You could mount the axle in any technic hole (as you have above) by using technic 1/2 pins. It would probably be best to power the axle with an elastic band system using a technic bushing as a pulley, so as not to foul anything between the rails.

3 hours ago, Pelzer117 said:

We would need wheels between the small and normal ones.

As soon as you said this, I remembered a December 2016 post by @Lowa: 

Unfortunately, Lowa hasn't been active here since May. You could try contacting them via PM, but I don't think these were ever produced as they're not listed on 4DBrix.com. However, it does shows that it can be done. Maybe if you find someone else good with CAD/printing LEGO parts, they could recreate the part for you.

However you choose, good luck; this is too good a model not to have it powered and running!

[Lazertron]

1 hour ago, legotownlinz said:

When is this meeting? Or if its just you & me or three of us, send me a personal message. Btw, are there Lego fan meetings in Linz?

It would be nice if there's a Lego-only solution, but the model has so many issues that I think it will need a complete redesign to get a good solution. I fixed it the easy way. ;-)

Ah, can't send more PMs today as I'm a forum newbie. Pelzer117 and me discussed meeting at Burgerista in 4040 anytime soon, of course close to the Umkehrschleife of Tram Line #1. You're invited 

BTW, is it off-topic to ask which other models you guys acquired from DerKlassiker?

Edited July 23, 2018 by Lazertron

[legotownlinz]

22 minutes ago, Lazertron said:

Ah, can't send more PMs today as I'm a forum newbie. Pelzer117 and me discussed meeting at Burgerista in 4040 anytime soon, of course close to the Umkehrschleife of Tram Line #1. You're invited 

BTW, is it off-topic to ask which other models you guys acquired from DerKlassiker?

I'll come. I'm on holidays, so I'm flexible regarding date&time.

These are the other sets I've bought so far:

[Lazertron]

Plenty to build :)

 

I acquired in a moment of sheer madness:

U-Bahn Silberpfeil 2
WLB Cargolock (built)
Oldtimer Strassenbahn 2 (built)
Wartehaus (built)
Straßenbahn 3 (built)
Straßenbahn Waggon 2 (built)
Flachwaggon (built)
U6 U-Bahn
Vienna Ringtram
some minifigs

 

Edited July 23, 2018 by Lazertron

[legotownlinz]

I've bought them one after the other within the last two years and built all except the Ringtram. Not all of them are motorized yet because I'm waiting for the new Powered Up components that do not require the ugly IR receiver.

If anyone needs PF train motors: The Munich Pasing Lego store still has them in stock, the Vienna Donaucenter and Berlin stores don't. I bought my last PF train motors last week in Munich, now I have a motor for each receiver. All my future purchases will be PU.

 

[Pelzer117]

 

2 hours ago, ColletArrow said:

An interesting problem! 

I think you could replace the technic axle with a 6L hose. I've done a little testing and discovered that one will fit in the socket on the wheel, although the clutch power isn't great so something like blu-tack (or even glue) might be needed to hold it in place. A bar is also possible, but the hose has slightly better friction. Any other technic part (gear, bushing etc) should have enough clutch to stay on the axle, but again may benefit from a little blu-tack. You could mount the axle in any technic hole (as you have above) by using technic 1/2 pins. It would probably be best to power the axle with an elastic band system using a technic bushing as a pulley, so as not to foul anything between the rails.

As soon as you said this, I remembered a December 2016 post by @Lowa: 

Unfortunately, Lowa hasn't been active here since May. You could try contacting them via PM, but I don't think these were ever produced as they're not listed on 4DBrix.com. However, it does shows that it can be done. Maybe if you find someone else good with CAD/printing LEGO parts, they could recreate the part for you.

However you choose, good luck; this is too good a model not to have it powered and running!

Thank you! I wil check it out.

41 minutes ago, legotownlinz said:

I'll come. I'm on holidays, so I'm flexible regarding date&time.

These are the other sets I've bought so far:

Need to reserve time. Depends on work/familiy.

Whoa... I can't afford so much (even because of my budget). Just bought the Ring Tram first and try now to re design it. Step by step.

[Pelzer117]

3 hours ago, ColletArrow said:

An interesting problem! 

I think you could replace the technic axle with a 6L hose. I've done a little testing and discovered that one will fit in the socket on the wheel, although the clutch power isn't great so something like blu-tack (or even glue) might be needed to hold it in place. A bar is also possible, but the hose has slightly better friction. Any other technic part (gear, bushing etc) should have enough clutch to stay on the axle, but again may benefit from a little blu-tack. You could mount the axle in any technic hole (as you have above) by using technic 1/2 pins. It would probably be best to power the axle with an elastic band system using a technic bushing as a pulley, so as not to foul anything between the rails.

Interesting but very difficult. I tested the small wheels on a bar (laser sword) and it will need glue for better friction, as you said. It still is an option but I think you will loose a lot of the power between motor then. 

Maybe it will be easier to drill the wheels for fitting on a technic axle.

 

[Pelzer117]

I tooked now again some time for this (never ending?) project. I am still not satisfied with the chassis, but I think I am on a good way now.

I absolute do not want to make the tram wider then 6w. Its a tram, and they should not be bigger then a train. So the chassis has to be smaller, to look more like the original. Also in reality the tram tracks are smaller then train tracks, so the best way may be to go on a 4wide chassis, which is.. very difficult if you want to motorize it also.

The best wheels for this, should be the small train wheels from LOWA (thank you for the wheels!).
I took a closer look on them, the "drive feeling" is good enough, but it is still tricky to do not waste space, and let the chassis be as slim as possible

  

At the moment I have THIS as start point.. If anyone has suggestions or also experience with such small chassis, please don't hesitate to comment.

compared to the original, it is still too high for me

Edited May 22, 2019 by Pelzer117