When does a theme become a classic?

[Aanchir]

This is a question I muse on from time to time, that's obviously highly subjective. Is there a certain point at which a theme becomes a classic? For instance, when did people start thinking of Pirates as a classic? It's a much younger theme than Town, Castle, or Space. When it first came out, did people already consider its 11-year-old predecessors "classic"? If so, would Western be considered a classic today? What about Aquazone, or Adventurers, or Bionicle?

Some people like to think of there being a firm cutoff date that separates classic from non-classic themes. How do you decide on such a date, though? Most changes to the LEGO system are gradual, not abrupt. So you could say that a theme has to have come out before 1990 to be considered classic, but that obfuscates the fact that sets in 1989 would generally have more in common with ones from 1994 or 1996 than ones from 1979.

Others might suggest that a theme has to have a stable presence for a certain number of years to be considered a classic, rather than a certain age. But in that case, Western (which only ran for two years) is right out, and Bionicle, which had a nine-year consecutive run before a four-year hiatus and two-year revival, would be even more of a classic than Pirates, which only got new sets for around eight years straight before a decade-long hiatus interrupted only by "LEGO Legends" re-releases of previous sets.

Still others suggest there are specific qualities of classic themes that separate them from more modern ones, like a lack of named characters or a structured story. But then, Pirates had named characters and written story media from the get-go, as did Fabuland, yet many people still consider them classics. Is a TV show or video game really fundamentally different than a comic book or picture book, or are they just different forms of the same idea?

Is it just age, then? Or some combination of factors? Will themes like Ninjago or Friends one day be considered classics, if they continue for long enough or just age with time? Share your thoughts!

[Benylin]

when it pass the test of time and stay relevant.

[Peppermint_M]

I think it hinges on the age of the fans. The original "Classic" three were decided because they were the themes that AFOLs had as children. Then, as slightly younger fans came along it came to include their nostalgic choice.

It is an odd term that may arrive from marketing or from fan speak when applied to themes. It can be used to denote an era (like comics has their Golden Age and so on) or something codified as essential (Casablanca is a classic film) or even due to entering a canon selected by the "great minds" (like Classic Literature). 

I would say that it is too subjective a term. Unless next year with all its anniversaries comes along with a list from TLG as to what counts as classic (I'm thinking that there should be at least some sort of Figure pack or theme in celebration that will give us hints)

[BrickJagger]

I think it has to do with the members who refer to them as classics themselves. There are a lot of people on this forum (even more so back in EB's first years) that were kids during the seventies and eighties, and they consider themes that came out during that era as "classics" because they have fond memories of them. Younger people aren't going to relate as much to those devotions because sets back then were fairly bland and simplistic compared to today's sets, with a few notable exceptions. Bionicle isn't considered a classic by the general public because it only appealed to a niche audience and doesn't mesh well with regular themes.

Bionicle was targeted at 9-10 year olds when it came out, which means the average Bionicle fan is about 27 (I can attest to that based on my experiences at Brickfair as well). Older fans were never drawn in by Bionicle to the extent that group was, and today's kids clearly didn't like Bionicle's failed reboot. 

An example of a classic theme in the making would be Ninjago. It appeals to a wide variety of people and has a very strong core fanbase, so strong that it was saved from cancellation in 2012. Practically every younger kid I've come across that likes Lego is almost obsessed with Ninjago, and there's no doubt that people will be referring to it as a classic a few years after it ends. 

[Digger of Bricks]

This is probably not the definition of "classic" for many AFOLs, but for me, classic themes are those that are based upon an archetypal storyline that is not dependent upon tie-in media to help explain and guide the theme to general audiences (Ninjago, Bionicle, etc.). 

3 hours ago, Peppermint_M said:

I would say that it is too subjective a term. Unless next year with all its anniversaries comes along with a list from TLG as to what counts as classic (I'm thinking that there should be at least some sort of Figure pack or theme in celebration that will give us hints)

Um, you wouldn't happen to know something about that do you? 

2 hours ago, BrickJagger said:

Bionicle was targeted at 9-10 year olds when it came out, which means the average Bionicle fan is about 27 (I can attest to that based on my experiences at Brickfair as well). Older fans were never drawn in by Bionicle to the extent that group was, and today's kids clearly didn't like Bionicle's failed reboot. 

An example of a classic theme in the making would be Ninjago. It appeals to a wide variety of people and has a very strong core fanbase, so strong that it was saved from cancellation in 2012. Practically every younger kid I've come across that likes Lego is almost obsessed with Ninjago, and there's no doubt that people will be referring to it as a classic a few years after it ends. 

This is something I've always wondered but have never asked anyone about:

Does anyone think that Ninjago would suffer the same fate as Bionicle if the theme were to take a temporary leave of absence?

[Artanis I]

You usually say "Classic" to differentiate from other (later) periods of a theme.

I think as far as Lego themes go, the "Classic" label comes about due to the change from what a theme looked like in the early years to what is (or isn't) coming out these days. Classic Space looks nothing like the last few Space releases, the same with Castle, Pirates & Town (City). They were popular themes to start with, they lasted for years, despite the waves being fewer & further between of late they are still going-ish. The other thing about it, is that the original fans probably had a dark age, when they came back, the theme had drastically changed, and we need some label to differentiate the periods.

Star Wars has evolved in time, but has been so constantly huge that "Classic SW" would be difficult to label, and the earlier stuff probably isn't that well-loved -  nostalgia plays a large part. If Ninjago had a hiatus for a decade, and came back with 2020s style, I'm sure that people would label the first few years as "Classic Ninjago". And, if it had simply been called "Ninja" instead of Ninjago, then I would imagine we would refer to the 90s theme as "Classic Ninja"! (Despite it not being that popular now, and being very short-lived)

Edited August 28, 2017 by Artanis I

[Peppermint_M]

10 hours ago, Digger of Bricks said:

Um, you wouldn't happen to know something about that do you? 

No, it is a hope for what could be done.

[rodiziorobs]

I think of "classic" as any theme that debuted under the LEGOLAND banner, even if a particular later set was released under SYSTEM. This means that "classic" status is closed to everything but Space, Castle, Town, and Pirates, as well as unthemed block sets, which even carry the name "Classic" as branding now. However, I don't think that later subthemes of those (I would probably discount anything after the late-90's or so) are necessarily able to qualify--Knights Kingdom, POTC, and Galaxy Squad (for example) wouldn't be classic because they aren't really continuations of those themes, but have their own look and feel. If a theme came along that closely mimicked the classics, then I suppose we would see it as homage and give it some kind of qualified name like "neo-classic" or "classic revival"

I think this kind of mentality will endure, also. I can't see FOLs 20 years from now calling Ninjago "classic" any more than we do today with the original SW sets. If anything, they will just differentiate it with words like "original," "old(er)," or "early," like Bionicle.

But then there's the issue of Technic and Trains. Do FOLs of those themes have their own definition of "classic"? They kind of exist apart from the bulk of traditional system themes (despite a lot of overlap), and I suspect that their constituent fan bases see their history differently, too.

[Japanbuilder]

Easy, when the next generation takes the reins and calls the stuff they grew up with as "Classic." 

It would make the stuff called "Classic" now something else, perhaps the "Old Classics" or even the "Golden Classics". Everything previous to that would be the "Proto-age" or something like that hah hah. 

But the plus side is every generation will get its "Classics."

I try to just call them my old LEGO. Since they only mean something to me and no one else. For marketing I am sure LEGO will define it in some way. But operationally I think they just say  "product" from x date to x date. 

[PeteM]

 

8 hours ago, Japanbuilder said:

Easy, when the next generation takes the reins and calls the stuff they grew up with as "Classic." 

It would make the stuff called "Classic" now something else, perhaps the "Old Classics" or even the "Golden Classics". Everything previous to that would be the "Proto-age" or something like that hah hah. 

But the plus side is every generation will get its "Classics."

I try to just call them my old LEGO. Since they only mean something to me and no one else. For marketing I am sure LEGO will define it in some way. But operationally I think they just say  "product" from x date to x date. 

Exactly what I was going to say! 'Classics' are sets from my childhood. Those not part of my childhood (Western for example) are not classics. Some of my classics may overlap with yours, some won't. When people with the same frame of reference talk, then the term becomes meaningful for them, but you'll never get consensus on the definition :)

[xboxtravis7992]

On 8/27/2017 at 7:07 PM, Digger of Bricks said:

Does anyone think that Ninjago would suffer the same fate as Bionicle if the theme were to take a temporary leave of absence?

With the movie coming out soon it seems likely that Ninjago is about to be cemented into pop-culture making it unlikely it is about to be forgotten anytime soon... However had it taken a leave of absence 3-5 years ago? Yeah it probably would have suffered a similar set of issues as Bionicle had when it was relaunched. 

Meanwhile what is my definition of classic? I kind of think it is in the eye of the beholder. I do regard "Classic Space, Pirates, Castle, etc" as "The Classics" in a way, but they were all before my time (honestly I see them as my dad's/uncle's/older-cousin's childhood and somewhat distant to me.) It is sort of the same way a film buff might agree when an older critic calls Casablanca, and Citizen Kane "classics" but the younger film fan has actually no experience with them. For me my personal classics are from that mid-90's to mid 2000's era when I was a kid. So Western, Adventurers, Star Wars, Bionicle, Harry Potter, early Super Heroes, etc. They are far more modern than "The Classics" are; but they were what were influential to MY childhood. Some such as Western/Adventurers I actually never owned a lot of but I saw them on store shelves and catalogs and remember them being part of that time in my childhood. I remember going to my friends houses as a kid and those being the sets we played with too.
 

I would dare say though in the present day Lego has a few future classics such as Ninjago and the Creator Expert lines. But since I didn't grow up with them they aren't "my classics" although in a few years there will be young adults telling us about how Ninjago was the greatest thing in their childhood... So yeah, really all in the eye of the beholder I guess.

Edited August 30, 2017 by xboxtravis7992