Just Imagine?

[Zarkan]

Another great year for lego fans is coming to a close, and it looks like the next year is going to be even better. Fact is, since 2003 TLC has slowly been climbing back to its former glory, but not since the last few years has it really regained sight in the minds of old and young fans of lego alike. Which brings up an interesting question: why did TLC ever sink down to the red in profits anyway? The answer may seem clear (Bad set designs, useless licenses, etc), but in fact the root of the problem really has to do with just one concept.

Years ago, in what we call TLC

[Lord Of Pies]

The sad thing is the majority of the sets I have are from 1997-2004. *n*

However 06-08 sets are catching up..... *skull*

Anyway, you have made a good point, Grevious, although I like some of the sports theme actually. :-P

Despite their being quite a few crummy themes, I have to say Star Wars stood out from the rest back then, with the new moulds, new sets and fresh ideas.

Oh and I want Pirates!!

Edited December 12, 2007 by Lord Of Pies

[Brick Miner]

i thought we had determined that distribution and LEGO's illogical supply chain were the cause of it's financial troubles in the years you spoke of ??? as least that was the official word from LEGO - which also induced the color changes of the grays and brown.

though, i do agree with the point that a well developed concept is the key to a successful product line. but i also think LEGO took a great deal of time developing the high concept theme of KK, which i think most consider a flop. so i don't know if labeling LEGOs failure on poorly developed themes (due to diverted interest) is accurate.

- BM

[AzMean]

nice article. I also liked the soccer theme but not how they are priced. :-P I have always wondered why did Lego released those Island Extreme Stunts theme. The only thing that was attractive in that theme was the various minifigs. I don't find any of their sets worth buying. *wacko*

[LuxorV]

Well, the pre-2003 decline was one of the reasons why I entered my dark-ages, so I'm glad TLC resurrected to the old glory. And I really hope it will keep improving the way we have seen it do this last years *y*

LuxorV

[hollisbrick]

*clap clap* couldnt of put it better myself! besides the sports bit i really liked that theme, mainly because i love sport vin general. but besides that, that was a great write lol next time your teacher wants you to do an essay just hand this in *y* X-D

[maiq the liar]

Although i wanted a Island extreme stunts set, those being the only way to get a actual pepper minifig (besides his cameo appearance in the airport...)

[Joebot]

i thought we had determined that distribution and LEGO's illogical supply chain were the cause of it's financial troubles in the years you spoke of ??? as least that was the official word from LEGO - which also induced the color changes of the grays and brown.

though, i do agree with the point that a well developed concept is the key to a successful product line. but i also think LEGO took a great deal of time developing the high concept theme of KK, which i think most consider a flop. so i don't know if labeling LEGOs failure on poorly developed themes (due to diverted interest) is accurate.

- BM

While Grievous' post is beautifully articulated and clearly from the heart, I think BM is right -- there were other business factors at work besides poorly designed themes. Manufacturing and distribution costs were part of it, but so were TLC's unwise ventures into non-toy areas like clothing, video games, and amusement parks. They've since then streamlined their product offering to get rid of most (sadly, not all; see Lego ice cube tray) of their non-toy products, and sold off their amusement parks to a third party. They also moved most of their manufacturing plants to developing nations in order to take advantage of cheaper labor costs. Depending on your political views on globalization, this may or may not be a good thing. I think we've all seen the decrease in TLC's quality control in recent years. While the theme designs have been vastly improved, the actual pieces have not.

[Freddie]

May I add that Grievous failed to mention the development of Mindstorms. That particular period, '97-04, saw birth of LEGO's most advanced - and to date still among the most advanced toys on market - product: Mindstorms.

While not a massive seller, it was a hit, especially in schools, and in professional labs and colleges no less(!), and still has a considerable following. But, I think some of those losses in that period might be greatly influenced by the development of Mindstorms. Developing a computer like this is not cheap, and MIT-cooperation notwithstanding, I think this might have have lead to a considerable part of the loss. I still think it was a good investment, however - LEGO is now harvesting the fruit of their hard work.

Oh, and one more thing. While I was working as a Christmas-extra in '05, we had a single left-over from the 4+ line. Which set it was escapes my mind, but I remember the price was set down to some 20% of its original price - it was christmas, the shelves were otherwise empty (christmas '05, remember?), except for this lone, heavily-discounted 4+ set. I will forever remember that sight, and as a reminder of how low down LEGO was at that time, when they were trying to push this rubbish line onto customers.

[iamded]

A very good speech Mr. Grievous! I'm just glad TLC're getting into the good stuff, although I do remember the dinosaur sets (the ones with minifigs, not just rebuildable dino's) and the Studios sets were pretty darn cool, and were in the time period you mentioned.

~Peace

[Zarkan]

Edit? What in blazes? None of my quote tabs are working... does anybody know why? 8-|

Edit by Hinckley: Yes, one was missing. If any are mismatched, none of them work.

While Grievous' post is beautifully articulated and clearly from the heart, I think BM is right -- there were other business factors at work besides poorly designed themes. Manufacturing and distribution costs were part of it, but so were TLC's unwise ventures into non-toy areas like clothing, video games, and amusement parks. They've since then streamlined their product offering to get rid of most (sadly, not all; see Lego ice cube tray) of their non-toy products, and sold off their amusement parks to a third party. They also moved most of their manufacturing plants to developing nations in order to take advantage of cheaper labor costs. Depending on your political views on globalization, this may or may not be a good thing. I think we've all seen the decrease in TLC's quality control in recent years. While the theme designs have been vastly improved, the actual pieces have not.

Actually, TLC still produces a bunch of non-brick stuff. The latest lego catalogs have a full two pages devoted to a couple dozen different items, and TLC still produces video games, books, and is even opening a new Legoland park. Still, I kinda see what you mean, but in general I don't think that was a really big reason. :-/

i thought we had determined that distribution and LEGO's illogical supply chain were the cause of it's financial troubles in the years you spoke of ??? as least that was the official word from LEGO - which also induced the color changes of the grays and brown.

Well, that's what they want you to think. :-P Eh, probably right, but again, I truly think the biggest problem in lego's dark ages was the problem we all could see right out: the poor set design. Without great sets, a toy company like TLC is doomed. End of story. Uh, kinda. Though other things certainly contributed to it. ;-)

Oh, and one more thing. While I was working as a Christmas-extra in '05, we had a single left-over from the 4+ line. Which set it was escapes my mind, but I remember the price was set down to some 20% of its original price - it was christmas, the shelves were otherwise empty (christmas '05, remember?), except for this lone, heavily-discounted 4+ set. I will forever remember that sight, and as a reminder of how low down LEGO was at that time, when they were trying to push this rubbish line onto customers.

Couldn't agree more. :-X

May I add that Grievous failed to mention the development of Mindstorms. That particular period, '97-04, saw birth of LEGO's most advanced - and to date still among the most advanced toys on market - product: Mindstorms.

While not a massive seller, it was a hit, especially in schools, and in professional labs and colleges no less(!), and still has a considerable following. But, I think some of those losses in that period might be greatly influenced by the development of Mindstorms. Developing a computer like this is not cheap, and MIT-cooperation notwithstanding, I think this might have have lead to a considerable part of the loss. I still think it was a good investment, however - LEGO is now harvesting the fruit of their hard work.

Oh man, I totally forgot about that! :-$ Well, you summed it up pretty well, so I really don't have anything to add, except that you're probably right. ;-)

Darn it, this new keyboard is really making it hard to type... |-/

Edited December 14, 2007 by Hinckley

[Piranha]

Very Nicely put *y*

Now here are my thoughts

In 1997 all the good themes went extinct like Divers,Paradisa, Pirates, Castle and even town. Sure they made town and castle sets after but they were all very :-X (KK,KK2). Then in 1998 WW slowly died out and a new theme came which was "The adventures" it was like TLC's version on Indiana Jones.Except it was cheaper to produce and the sets were very cool. In 1999 the next awesome thing happened, Star Wars. It was the start of all future license's and has produced great sets ever since. In 2001 or 2002, crap themes like galidor, 4+ and all those useless sports junk came into the scene but eventuall died out, thank goodness. Shortly after another event happened, TLC made fleshies for the Basketball sport theme. That led to SW and all other license themes to have them. In 2004 or 2005 Johnny Thunder and the adventures had thier last great adventure which was Orient Expedition. That same year SW Episode 3 came out as did the LULS. Skip forward into 2007. Here we have an excellent year since 1997. SW finally got "real blasters", divers came back in a different more advanced form. Town finally had its orginally glory returned and of course castle finally became great again. 2007 besides all that was SW 30th anniversary so we got plenty of nice sets. IMO this has been the best year since 1997 which was 10 years earlier. Now into the future, 2008 shows more, Indiana Jones, More Castle, More EU SW, More Town and basically more of everything that is awesome from 2007.

*Phew* :-D

P

[john cleese]

90's but I'm probably just being nostalgic. I think the 90's, especially the early and mid 90's was when Lego was really on top of things. It was a good balance between New fangled pieces and strange, adventurous new themes, while it stuck to it's roots and encouraged creative play. And there were no giant technic shooting pieces. :-P I'm sure the 80's might have been that period for some, but I think the early 80's was still pretty basic. The 90's was definately Lego's golden age.

[hollisbrick]

90's but I'm probably just being nostalgic. I think the 90's, especially the early and mid 90's was when Lego was really on top of things. It was a good balance between New fangled pieces and strange, adventurous new themes, while it stuck to it's roots and encouraged creative play. And there were no giant technic shooting pieces. :-P I'm sure the 80's might have been that period for some, but I think the early 80's was still pretty basic. The 90's was definately Lego's golden age.

in the 90's they also had the ninja's and the fright nights and the beggining of SW

[Joebot]

Actually, TLC still produces a bunch of non-brick stuff. The latest lego catalogs have a full two pages devoted to a couple dozen different items, and TLC still produces video games, books, and is even opening a new Legoland park. Still, I kinda see what you mean, but in general I don't think that was a really big reason. :-/

TLC isn't opening a new park; Blackstone is opening a new park with the Lego name on it. TLC sold the parks to Blackstone several years ago, and thus Blackstone takes on the finacial risk of building and operating the parks. TLC owns only a 30% controlling interest in the amusement parks.

BBC News story

Here's the money quote:

""The toy market has been declining for some time and is extremely competitive," said Lego owner Kjeld Kirk Kristiansen.

In an effort to boost profits, the company invested heavily in a host of new markets, including computer games, baby products, camping goods and even shoes.

The company has since taken steps to reverse that strategy and said the sale of the Legoland parks will further enable it focus on its core businesses."

Likewise, TLC doesn't make video games. The Lego Star Wars game, for example, was developed by Traveller's Tales (PS2, Windows, XBox), Griptonite Games (Nintendo GBA), and Aspyr (Mac), then published by Eidos / LucasArts. These other companies take on the financial risk of developing the games, not TLC.

So, there was all this weird "stuff" that TLC used to do that was well outside of their core business, and they lost a ton of money because of it. They've since then sold off all those business lines to other companies who are better equipped to know how to do those things successfully.

Another key part of their financial turnaround, sadly, was the lay-off of over a thousand people.

New York Times article

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that as fan, we want to say, "See, Lego! If you make the themes and sets that we tell you to make, you'll be successful!" That's undoubtedly part of the solution. But behind the scenes are a bunch of business decisions having to do with cutting jobs, reducing manufacturing and distrbution costs, streamlining their product offerings, and selling off parts of the business to other companies.

But that stuff is really kinda dull to talk about. It's a lot more fun to talk about all the cool new sets and themes coming out in '08!!

[Greyfox327]

I got into Lego again I guess right after the dark ages. I do remember Ninjas, though. They're still my favorite theme. I just wish that lego would make more Classic SW, get rid of Bionicle to focus on other themes, and bring back old themes.

[Lt. Veers]

Hooray for Imagination! :'-)

[SlyOwl]

I think the time period you quoted is slightly wrong - I would place it between 2000 and 2006; the main product-related factors for the Dark Ages being, IMHO:

-Trains: too many! Around half of ech catalogue, especially towards the beginning was just trains! Granted, they're nice enough for AFOLs, but how many children have the money to buy an engine, some carriages and a track, all at