the MOC quality control debate. come all

[john cleese]

DESPITE THE DESCRIPTION THIS IS FOR EVERYONE!

So as you may already know, recently (the day before yesterday) i debated hinkley on the matter of MOC's in a certian topic called The Best MOC I Ever Build. We were basically discussing whether or not the afol community should have a standard for MOC's. I was going to let it go but you see i have this disorder called OCD (obsessive compulsive disorder) and that's my excuse if this thread seems spammy.

Ok before we go any further this is just a debate topic. I'm not trying to create a revolution here. I don't want members to reserve a special critique for my moc's because of this topic, because it is NOT intended to affect the moral fabric of EB in any way shape or form. I cannot stress that enough.

Now what i've noticed is that despite what Hinkley has told me, ConCrit does equal CanCoat. It seems replies are expected to be more positive than negative, but i think there should be a gray area in the spectrum where the reply can be more negative but within reason. This would mean- no sarcasm, no insults, no attacks on character. However it would allow one to be very critical of the moc, so long as they explained their criticisms in full. To give you an example of what i mean I'll refer to a topic for an moc by Darth Andrew. Chuck said:

Not to belittle your MOC or anything, but isn't this just hoth base on a baseplate with figs and small parts from other sets?

Now I'll agree that saying "not to belittle your moc or anything" sounds sarcastic but i wouldn't say the question itself was out of line. For some would consider this plagarism. Not I personally, as the moc is mainly focussed on the scene and how the figs are set up. I found many of the replies completely focussed on the positive aspects and that aspect of the moc wasn't pointed out, even though im sure it bugged us all just a tad.

I think candy coating leads to lying wether we like it or not and this can give the moc'er the wrong impression. I would say Chuck offered some of the most helpful advice. Maybe Andrew wasn't sure what the general community would think of the fact that he used 7666?

A second point is the idea that discouraging posts are going to necessarily discourage the builder is false. Sometimes a respectful negative response opens ones eyes or encourages the builder to show the commenter up.

Part two is the Afol Community Standard or the ACS as i like to call it. Should we have one? I've been called an elitist among other things for my contraversial views on this matter. But hey i gots a tough exterior; i can take it. My opinion is that especially on this forum where we have the over 18 rule where it would be hypocritical we would have some kind of standard. I've said that the standard should be very low but i think there are certain hypothetical mocs (like the two brick plane hinkley mentioned in the other thread) that could easily be hoaxes. Not to be taken seriously or are just plain bad Moc's. Does this include FF's haunted eco-plane? I would personally expect him to grow without the help of the community (i wasn't online talking lego till i was 14). I do agree that it wouldn't be fair to prevent certain members from posting their mocs for critique but i don't think we should feel obligated to butter them up. Infact i think in cases like this, you could alternatively go to the lowest rank within the gray area i spoke of and discourage the member from posting more creations like it, as well as refer him to sites like BS to let him use his own discretion on posting moc's. I would say a slightly modifed version of what i wrote to FF in round one of the Best Moc I Ever Build thread would be acceptable. I'll quote that post:

well you almost have a time-cruiser/ twisters moc there and i would like it if it was fleshed out. You didnt seem to take alot of time in building this and its really REALLY not my cup of tea. I would recocomend researching other mocs on brickshelf and mocpages to learn new building techniques and familiarize yourself with mocing in the afol community. Im afraid this thing is suitable for the official lego gallery but not eurobricks. I dont want to seem harsh but we have certain standards here. If you revamped this thing i could probably give you more specific advice.

First i encourage him to revise the moc and express a certain level of interest. Then i make good and clear how his moc stacks up to other mocs on BS. Then i give him comprehensive advice to not influence the projects direction too much. I also give him resources to use, to better understand what we look for here and learn from them to make mocs that meet the ACS. Then i mention the ACS. Before you know it the boy is well on his way embarking on an enriching learning experience.

My main regret in that post is saying it's not suitable for Eurobricks, because that could easily be misinterpreted to mean he shouldnt post his moc for critique, which is elitist. What i meant was it isnt a very good art piece. I would also get rid of the extra (REALLY). It pushes my point too much and could be viewed as rude.

So is it me and Chuck vs. everyone else? Or is Chuck going to chicken out?:-D..... Oh, not funny.... :-/

So be it resolved that Eurobricks needs to grow some balls. X-D

[PSPguy]

*y* May I give an example? Well when I posted my Mortal Kombat "mocs" if you will a certain Graned Moff banne d member just came in and said something along the lines of I dont like video games. Now whats wrong with that picture? Well if I went into a thread with a moc of something I dont like I would just leave and if I didnt know what it is I would ask. Now Jordan also said he didnt play video games and I will accept that since he is a friend but for some jerk that I dont know to spam and say that...its

its just rude. Can I get an amen?

Sorry about the double post but the PSP only takes so much words.

[SirNadroj]

Now Jordan also said he didnt play video games and I will accept that since he is a friend but for some jerk that I dont know to spam and say that...its

Right. Thats all I said, I never bashed any MOCs because of someone's hobby that I don't care for.

I may seem hypocritical here, but I absolutely hate sarcasim in it is meant negitively. I don't know if I'm negitively sarcastic here. Half the time I don't pay attention to what I say. X-D

[PSPguy]

Exactly my point thanks for being a friend. *y*

[john cleese]

Right. Thats all I said, I never bashed any MOCs because of someone's hobby that I don't care for.

I may seem hypocritical here, but I absolutely hate sarcasim in it is meant negitively. I don't know if I'm negitively sarcastic here. Half the time I don't pay attention to what I say. X-D

dont worry thats how many of us are and how we end up with topics like this one.:-P

PSP guy: I would say Graned Moff's response wasnt constructive. I took a look at your moc to create my own review based on the ideas above.

" The background lacks a fluid colorscheme. Im not familiar with the mortal combat game so i'm not sure how accurate the characters are but i reccomend you redo the background."

[PSPguy]

Thats ok. I had a limited amount of pieces so thats why its colourful. And it kinda fell off the table now.

Thats ok. I had a limited amount of pieces so thats why its colourful. And it kinda fell off the table now. And his name was Grand Moff. Dont know where that e came from.

[Asuka]

Hmm.... 8-|

One more time: Hmm.... :-D

I don

[Siegfried]

Well my policy has always been that if I think someones MOC is complete garbage I don't comment on it. But that is an over simplification as there are other reasons why I don't make comments, such as;

• I'm busy. (At the moment I am trying to spend as much time as possible making the smackdown MOC.)
  
• I didn't see it.
  
• Too many other MOCs to comment on.
  
• Design wise it isn't my style. (This happens a lot with customs, illegal parts usage, mosaics and Bionicle stuff.)
  
• It had loads of comments that had already said what I felt and more.
  
• It was made by a builder who I have given loads of comments to in the recent past.
  

Conversely, I sometimes go out of my way to make a comment, even if I think a MOC is unimpressive, because;

• The MOC had low or zero comments.
  
• The MOC had negative comments.
  
• I was referred to.
  

Even so, I never say nice things if I don't mean them. This is for two reasons;

1. It makes someone think that they are good when they are not.
   
2. It dilutes my complements and thus means that what I say is worthless.
   

So in short;

• Believe what I say.
  
• Don't be too offended or complemented if I do or don't comment on your MOC.
  
• Vote for me in the Smackdown, as well as the Alien and Fire Engine competitions.
  
• This is the first time I have used lists and I like them.
  

[SirNadroj]

I agree with Sinner, except you guys should vote for ME in the alien contest! :-D .......... ;-) j/k

[Hinckley]

So be it resolved that Eurobricks needs to grow some balls. X-D

If by that you mean we should be elitist and have some sort of "standard" and tell people they shouldn't post their MOCs, in my opinion, I wish you would take your "balls" elsewhere.

As a wise friend of mine said, "MOCing isn't about being the best at something, it's about doing something you love and sharing it." Everyone at EB should feel welcome to share their creations. There never has been and never will be a "standard" for people to share their creations at Eurobricks.

I was going to let it go but you see i have this disorder called OCD (obsessive compulsive disorder) and that's my excuse if this thread seems spammy.

You never do seem to be able to let things go... :-| You've made your points already in the other thread, there was no reason to start an entire new one just in order to repeat yourself. So, I'll just lock this up. The discussion can continue in the other thread that was started for this very reason...