KevinMoo Posted July 21, 2015 Posted July 21, 2015 Maybe as you speak chinese I could try to email them? It's probably worth a try. Anyway nice words from you! I respect you and all your wonderful creations! As far as I know, you could file a complaint to taobao’s customer service, submit a claim of copyright infringement. Don’t know if it works all the time. I never tried. Just too many of them... One fells, one rises... It makes me feel worse than “sad”... Quote
Blakbird Posted July 21, 2015 Posted July 21, 2015 This is sad. As a Chinese, I feel ashamed of it. But there is nothing I can do to change it. Thank you for your sentiment. It is always good to remember that we can't condemn a whole group of people for what one (or even many) are doing. It is refreshing to hear your attitude. Quote
Superfield Posted July 22, 2015 Posted July 22, 2015 As a Chinese Lego fan, I feel really sorry about this. Actually, someone shared this very discussion to the biggest Chinese local Lego forum. Most folks there feel bad too. Many of them expressed great respects to the original authors and the willingness to buy the instructions from an official channel. I personally also buy instructions from the authors directly. However a big number of them as I believe are still getting the instructions for free or at a relatively low price from taobao.com or from other people's sharing. I think there're several reasons behind this. Many Chinese fans do not read English well or do not have the habit of going to English websites. Paying in foreign currency is also not too easy for them. On the other hand, Alibaba has made taobao.com extremely easy to buy almost anything. So it has become the default choice for many things. They buy instructions there without thinking too much about intellectual property. Things are being improved over years, but I have to admit that as of today IP is still a concept that many folks don't have in mind especially for digital things. Some folks there suggested the authors to open stores at taobao.com to sell the instructions for Chinese fans. But I am not sure whether MOCers are interested and how feasible is that. Quote
shineyu Posted July 22, 2015 Posted July 22, 2015 I just see your link, taobao is very famous company at mainland china, taobao is selling platform just like ebay for seller and end user, I just want to prepare my mocs insturection, but now i afraid... Quote
Milan Posted July 22, 2015 Posted July 22, 2015 I just want to prepare my mocs insturection, but now i afraid... Afraid of what? Quote
TheItalianBrick Posted July 22, 2015 Posted July 22, 2015 Many Chinese fans do not read English well or do not have the habit of going to English websites. Paying in foreign currency is also not too easy for them. I understand that Chinese find it easy to buy/sell on a chinese emarket, but this doesn't justify to sell someone else instructions at first place!!!! Quote
MaxSupercars Posted July 22, 2015 Posted July 22, 2015 ... Why was this topic not moved to General Subforum when other topics were? Max... Quote
Superfield Posted July 22, 2015 Posted July 22, 2015 I understand that Chinese find it easy to buy/sell on a chinese emarket, but this doesn't justify to sell someone else instructions at first place!!!! I completely agree with you. I was talking about the buyers. It is somewhat understandable. There's nothing to say about the sellers. Quote
zux Posted July 22, 2015 Posted July 22, 2015 I understand that Chinese find it easy to buy/sell on a chinese emarket, but this doesn't justify to sell someone else instructions at first place!!!! Oh, please tell me you haven't downloaded a single mp3 or movie from internet ever before. Buyer would always look for easier option, which in this case, is being offered by local sellers. Quote
TheItalianBrick Posted July 22, 2015 Posted July 22, 2015 Oh, please tell me you haven't downloaded a single mp3 or movie from internet ever before. I think it's a bit different: to make instructions of a moc it takes time and energies...and at the end you only gain few pennies from it! Where singers sell anyway billions of album and they are all rich! Plus I do go to lives and pay a ticket for! I'm not going to lie on the mp3/movie, but in the other hand I've been to the cinema many times and I do buy billions of CD and vinyls! Quote
zux Posted July 22, 2015 Posted July 22, 2015 ... but in the other hand I've been to the cinema many times and I do buy billions of CD and vinyls!That's great!Just wanted to highlight a point, where some people complaining their stuff is being pirated while they, most probably, weren't so innocent themselves. Quote
Milan Posted July 22, 2015 Posted July 22, 2015 Oh, please tell me you haven't downloaded a single mp3 or movie from internet ever before. Lets not forget programs, games, apps, books, operating systems... We had this discussion similar to this about a pirated Lego ebook, point is the same. Quote
Blakbird Posted July 22, 2015 Posted July 22, 2015 While I can't disagree that pirating is illegal, I think there is a difference between downloading something for your own use and actually selling someone else's product. This website is selling something that doesn't belong to them, so they are not just stealing but also profiting from the theft. There is nothing wrong with reselling a physical product (buying a LEGO model and then later selling it), but selling copies of instructions prevents them from being purchased from the actual owner. In a way it is even worse than stealing someone's physical property and selling it because they can sell as many copies as they want and it costs them nothing. At least a car thief has to do some work for his profit! Quote
Paul Boratko Posted July 22, 2015 Author Posted July 22, 2015 While I can't disagree that pirating is illegal, I think there is a difference between downloading something for your own use and actually selling someone else's product. This website is selling something that doesn't belong to them, so they are not just stealing but also profiting from the theft. There is nothing wrong with reselling a physical product (buying a LEGO model and then later selling it), but selling copies of instructions prevents them from being purchased from the actual owner. In a way it is even worse than stealing someone's physical property and selling it because they can sell as many copies as they want and it costs them nothing. At least a car thief has to do some work for his profit! Exactly.. Going to youtube and finding a song that I like that is already there for free and converting it to MP3 to listen to while I am building is much different than taking that same converted song and selling it on some knock off thieving website for $1.99 I honestly can't believe(well I guess that I can now) that people have the balls to sell instructions that are already being offered for free... That is what gets me the most.. We already have some names of the people who have bought instructions from Taiwan who we suspect are reselling them.. What is going to happen is that we are just going to stop selling to that part of the world.. Quote
vmln8r Posted July 23, 2015 Posted July 23, 2015 ^ Isn't such a blanket approach kinda shortsighted (not to mention bad business)? You could do something similar to what mahjqa did with his Tumbler instructions: Embedded on there, in various subtle and unsubtle ways, is your name. So should they leak, I'll know who did it. In this case, I'll reserve the right to slap you in the face. I'm also curious how you define "that part of the world". Quote
Paul Boratko Posted July 23, 2015 Author Posted July 23, 2015 ^ Isn't such a blanket approach kinda shortsighted (not to mention bad business)? You could do something similar to what mahjqa did with his Tumbler instructions: I'm also curious how you define "that part of the world". "That part of the world" = China... This isn't the first time that I've had issues with thieves from China... One of the things that pisses me off about this is that over the years I've had dozens of people from China email me asking for free instructions for various reasons(No Paypal, No Money, Parents won't Let them buy, etc) and I have always given them out.. And go figure, the one country that I have had more problems with than any other is the one that I get the most free requests from.. Well that is most certainly going to stop.. 99% of my actual instruction sales are Europe, Canada, USA, and Australia.. Quote
falconluan Posted July 23, 2015 Posted July 23, 2015 (edited) Actually, someone shared this very discussion to the biggest Chinese local Lego forum. Most folks there feel bad too. I'm a Chinese Lego fan and I did this. Yes, we here have some problems of browsing foreign sites(It's weird that I can't even browse Sheepo's site directly...), paying with credit cards, reading English and so on. However, making profits using other's work without paying them anything is COMPLETELY WRONG and many of us Chinese fans feel shame on them too. Finding some proxy like here to help selling your instructions would be a better way for both sides, although I think, as Paul said, the market here might not be that large. I feel sad that Paul decided not to sell his instructions to us any more since a lot of us here really like his MOCs. And I doubt that would help since for the illegal sellers, they can always find a way to get the instructions they want because of the profit. On the other hand, for the buyers, if he/she meets some difficulty to buy the instructions directly from the owner, he/she will turn to other easier ways instead, especially the other ways are cheaper... Edited July 23, 2015 by falconluan Quote
Blakbird Posted July 23, 2015 Posted July 23, 2015 And go figure, the one country that I have had more problems with than any other is the one that I get the most free requests from. Given that China has a couple of billion people, it is not too surprising that they have lots of people in every category, good and bad. My guess is that the extent to which their government controls Internet usage makes it much harder for them to buy legally than for people in other countries. But in any country there are plenty of reasons someone might not have a Paypal account or any money. Quote
Balrog Posted July 24, 2015 Posted July 24, 2015 (edited) "That part of the world" = China... This isn't the first time that I've had issues with thieves from China... One of the things that pisses me off about this is that over the years I've had dozens of people from China email me asking for free instructions for various reasons(No Paypal, No Money, Parents won't Let them buy, etc) and I have always given them out.. THIS is exactly what we have experienced in the company I work for. Some years back, we had problems with chinese people buying single licenses of our products, not paying and then reselling them. What we did was simple. We blocked ALL chinese access to our shop sites. They can still contact us, but we check very thoroughly who is requesting stuff. We still do business with chinese customers, but we limited it to big customers with a reputation and certain values. We thought, it is best to simply ditch (nearly) all possible profit made through chinese customers, instead of having piracy resellers making profit from our products. It's super-sad for people like KevinMoo, but the stereotypes about chinese people (when it comes to online business stuff) is up to 90% true. edit: I know, it is always the bad people who stand out and make the impression that stereotypes do fit, but this case unfortunately is extreme and very true! Edited July 24, 2015 by Balrog Quote
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