Ragnarök Now 3: Day Two

[Pandora]

So then who is this blocker you are referring to?

I know you're new, but asking someone to potentially reveal the identity of a town role in public is rather anti-town, and as such does not sit well.

Two days later, aaaand....still waiting, Danr.

Good job you weren't holding your breath.

How did you get off the hook?

He isn't.

I did, I've read the entire topic so far and I have literally no idea where this conversation about the town blocker comes from.

Are you actually being serious?

Sorry. He messaged us around midday, after he started being called scummy. He never asked for roles, just our alignment. Now he could have contacted Patrekr without me and carried on like that.

With that, I cast my vote.

Vote: Cranebeinn (ChromeKnight)

That's rather abrupt. I could have edited the post for emphasis (and I see nothing wrong with that), but actually the emphasis here (to me) is that you don't really seem to have your own reason for voting.

And the need to mention what Tarden says is a completely irrelevant topic, because I should be saying the same thing, which is that you are definitely scum. Even if I WAS scum, I should be saying that.

I don't understand why you're not voting for Pudding if you think he's "definitely scum". The way you talk about it makes it look like it's your strongest read, so I don't understand why you're not voting for him. And when you say you'd say the same even if you were scum it is quite unsettling.

After I made that initial observation I reread the day 1 thread and noted tarbens vote, I got a town read from this post and thought others should at least see my line of thought. I could have remained quiet and safe on the topic, but that does not advance the game.

I still don't agree that publicly stating that you see someone (who isn't under pressure) is town is helpful; I see it as painting a target on their back.

Actually, from my experience I find that scum are the only ones to defend townies on day one.

So how do you feel about people who (for no clear reason) make a case for why a townie (assuming Tarben's actually town) is town on day two?

I'm happy to Vote: Jarl Noname (jluck)

Bollocks, got his name wrong.

Vote: Jarl Name-Loser

[Duvors]

Are you actually being serious?

Sadly, yes.

[Pandora]

Sadly, yes.

Fortunately Pudding replied to you earlier and pointed out where it came from for you. Do you have any thoughts?

And now I notice I still haven't formatted my vote correctly:

I'm happy to Vote: Jarl Noname (jluck)

Bollocks, got his name wrong.

Vote: Jarl Name-Loser

In case it really isn't clear: Vote: Jarl Name-Loser (jluck)

[Duvors]

Fortunately Pudding replied to you earlier and pointed out where it came from for you. Do you have any thoughts?

I don't know, Crannebin did ask for counterclaims so maybe he's lying as part of an attempt to get the real blocker to counterclaim to him? However, it would've made more sense to say that he was directly in touch with the blocker if this was the case rather then claim that some nebulous friend told him about it. It seems rather odd.

[TrumpetKing]

Something came up and I'm not ready to reveal what I know. I can't think of how to reveal it. If I tell everyone how I found certain things out I'm almost certain to reveal too much. I'm thinking... Cranebeinn isn't cleared, by any stretch of the imagination, but I do think it's best to keep him around for now.

Then why now? What else has happened that has you campaigning for my lynch behind the scenes?

Campaigning for your lynch? That's a major stretch of the truth. To Tarben], I voiced a slight suspicion. I didn't even suggest you as a lynch. I voiced a slight worry about your behavior. I didn't even say you were guaranteed scum. I got the same response you did, that being either you or myself is scum. Now you're just putting words into my mouth.

So, you want to lay it down on the line, that one of us is Scum? Do you want to force the entire game to choose between the two of us. You've lost your damn mind. Your reasoning for thinking I'm Scum doesn't make even the tiniest bit of sense. If I was Scum why would I try "so hard" (notice this is all based on one post, about 8 words if I remember correctly) to set you up for a lynch? The diabolical mastermind of Toki, I'm Scum and I absolutely must get rid of him by making one post pointing out how he made one fluffy post. Do you hear yourself? Panicked. Scum.

Once again, you suggested first that one of us must be scum, based solely on somebody else's read. I didn't "lay it down on the line" that one of us is scum. That was your doing, and it's a fairly clear statement from you.

You voiced this to me and I guess my issue is that while I see that, that's really what most people do, and what Pudding Head does a lot. I just don't really get why questioning is a scumtell. I think he might be scum, but it isn't for that reason.

It wasn't that he was questioning people. It was that he was doing so without adding anything particularly new, other than asking others for counterclaims early in the day.

Vote: Pudding-Head (Hinckley)

[Hinckley]

Vote: Pudding-Head (Hinckley)

Finally.

The severity of your suspicion was communicated to me by Tarden. I am asking a lot of questions but they have substance. The answers to the questions could lead us to good information. I have certainly done a lot more than question. I've hypothesized a lot about who Scum are. You have only helped by pointing out how Scummy it was of me to call your post fluffy. That makes no sense to me at all. What is your view of anything else? There's a lot more going on.

[Hinckley]

Tarden, this is back on you now. You made it sound in private like he was trying to convince you I was Scum. Was it just a slight mention of a tiny suspicion like he says and where did your idea that we can't be on the same side come from?

[Lady K]

I feel that Mist is currently our best candidate. She has had two slip of the tongue posts and defended someone else day 1. Today she has made no useful contributions and seems to be hiding behind previous behaviors to stay under the radar. I am getting a strong scum read on her (scum or traitor).

So I will:

Vote: Mist (Mencot)

[mostlytechnic]

Crap, had a whole post and lost it. Here's the summary (just not bothering to go refind the posts I quoted).

Crane, the posting about a blocker and fishing for tracker info is scummy. As others have said. Normally I'm the one coming up with crazy theories about weird roles, but this time Pudding took up the mantle. I don't know if he's exactly right, but I can TOTALLY buy that some form of the scum finding our blocker, killing him, and now fishing for info and trying to infiltrate the town is going on.

Then there was the short post of Pudding unvoting Crane. Until that, I was 100% planning to vote crane for the reasons I did so yesterday and his actions today. However, I do also think the Pudding is most likely loyal, so if he thinks there's a reason to keep Crane alive, I'll hold off that vote for now. Hopefully he can explain further before the end of the day. (my gut is that maybe Crane claimed to Pudding that he's the blocker, since I can't really wrap my head around someone claiming to Crane, and it's certainly not unheard of for people to claim they're speaking for someone else when it's really their own role they're reporting. )

Instead, for now, I'll

Vote: Dagstyrr the Fool (Darkdragon

For being so incredibly quiet. So call this a poke if you want, but it's time to do SOME talking around here!

[Hinckley]

I hate to admit I found myself thinking if a lynch is even "possible" today...

However, I'm trying to figure out where the best case is...

There are six different people being voted for right now? Is that right?

[Lady K]

I hate to admit I found myself thinking if a lynch is even "possible" today...

However, I'm trying to figure out where the best case is...

There are six different people being voted for right now? Is that right?

Mist is our best case for today. Go back and look at everything she said, it's really full of nothing and several times ended with a re-direction off her completely.

[mostlytechnic]

I hate to admit I found myself thinking if a lynch is even "possible" today...

However, I'm trying to figure out where the best case is...

There are six different people being voted for right now? Is that right?

Seems like it - let's see... Crane with a bunch, you and me and Jarl and Mist and Dagstyrr with one or so each. So yep, that's at least 6. But really, it's Crane and then random votes with no support from others. Well, Mist might have had a couple votes, but the rest are all solo votes I believe. Sorry, don't have an up to date count, so I'm going from memory and looking up the current page of the thread :) Realistically, it's crane unless someone builds a good case for people to follow.

And I'm keeping my poke on Dag for the moment, but I've got enough of a scum-leaning read on Mist to be willing to switch that way if we really don't want to off Cranebeinn today. If there wasn't 24 hours left, I'd be struggling to keep him around despite what Pudding has said. Btu as it is, we've got time still.

[Tamamono]

It wasn't that he was questioning people. It was that he was doing so without adding anything particularly new, other than asking others for counterclaims early in the day.

I feel like he's been adding new things. That isn't a reason why he's town, but your reasoning for your suspicion just doesn't really stand close scrutiny.

Tarden, this is back on you now. You made it sound in private like he was trying to convince you I was Scum. Was it just a slight mention of a tiny suspicion like he says and where did your idea that we can't be on the same side come from?

I wouldn't say it was only a slight mention. He basically said, hey, I think Pudding is scum, and when I voiced my ambivalence he made the same case he's making now.

I just make conjectures. I've got null-leaning-scum on both of you right now, and I like to think I have good reads, so that's where that came from.

[MagPiesRUs]

Vote Count

Cranebeinn the Redder (Chromeknight): 5 votes (jluck, Tariq j, Dragonfire, KingoftheZempk, Mencot)

Toki (Trumpetking): 1 vote (Hinckley)

Munud the Strange(mostlytechnic): 1 vote (Tamamono)

Jarl Name-Loser (jluck): 1 vote (Pandora)

Pudding-Head (Hinckley): 1 vote (Trumpetking)

Mist (Mencot): 1 vote (Lady K)

Dagstyrr the Fool (Darkdragon): 1 vote (mostlytechnic)

No Vote: 9 (CallMePie, Chromeknight, Dannylonglegs, Darkdragon, Piratedave, Adam, Jackjonespaw, RangeroftheForest, Lord Duvors)

11 votes are required to lynch. 24 hours remain in the day.

[JackJonespaw]

Vote: Cranebeinn the Redder (Chromeknight).

Pings and the such, scum reads, like with the blocker 'claiming', and him trying to find out who he is - suspicious. Haven't had time to really delve deep into today, I still don't have time. I'm sorry, but once this weekend is over I should be back for some action.

[TrumpetKing]

Tarben, it wasn't much of a slight mention in the sense that I asked you about your thoughts on Pudding-Head. The focus of that discussion was most definitely on our thoughts on Pudding-Head. However, I don't recall saying I was set on him being scum, nor did I think it was because he said I had a fluffy post. I expressed a slight concern as for the mention of my original non-vote yesterday, as I wouldn't put it past a traitorous Pudding-Head to set up that framework for a potential suspect. This clearly was blown out of proportion as you decided to relay that to Pudding-Head.

[Ranger of the Forest]

Vote: Cranebeinn the Redder

Cranebeinn has done nothing today but convince me further that he is scum. His posts are confused and muddled, and his fishing for roles doesn’t help either. Nor does his over defensive attitude. Although Pudding-Head’s words cast a shred of doubt in my mind, I can’t help but feel that lynching Cranebeinn is the best course of action for today. If he does get lynched, I sincerely hope I’m right about him being scum. This game is starting to mess with my brain

[Mencot]

I feel that Mist is currently our best candidate. She has had two slip of the tongue posts and defended someone else day 1. Today she has made no useful contributions and seems to be hiding behind previous behaviors to stay under the radar. I am getting a strong scum read on her (scum or traitor).

So I will:

Vote: Mist (Mencot)

so you are going to continue your quest against me, are you? Oh well, if you wanna.

But what is this talk about "scum or traitors"?

I thought there was just loyal and scum and neutral in this game... So where have you gotten that from? From the Brand discussion yesterday or what?

[Tamamono]

Tarben, it wasn't much of a slight mention in the sense that I asked you about your thoughts on Pudding-Head. The focus of that discussion was most definitely on our thoughts on Pudding-Head. However, I don't recall saying I was set on him being scum, nor did I think it was because he said I had a fluffy post. I expressed a slight concern as for the mention of my original non-vote yesterday, as I wouldn't put it past a traitorous Pudding-Head to set up that framework for a potential suspect. This clearly was blown out of proportion as you decided to relay that to Pudding-Head.

I mean, yeah, in hindsight the discussion did go two ways about Pudding, but you definitely said that the way he called you out for your fluffy post made you seem like scum either way.

As we saw yesterday, though, bickering about technicalities in PMs is a bad thing. I relayed it because I'm uneasy about you and even though you were busy, you were reluctant to post your thoughts in the thread... I don't know, maybe that's a towntell. I'm having serious second thoughts on you. Sorry for dragging you into all this.

[Adam]

Vote: Cranebeinn the Redder (Chromeknight).

Pings and the such, scum reads, like with the blocker 'claiming', and him trying to find out who he is - suspicious. Haven't had time to really delve deep into today, I still don't have time. I'm sorry, but once this weekend is over I should be back for some action.

Vote: Cranebeinn the Redder

Cranebeinn has done nothing today but convince me further that he is scum. His posts are confused and muddled, and his fishing for roles doesn’t help either. Nor does his over defensive attitude. Although Pudding-Head’s words cast a shred of doubt in my mind, I can’t help but feel that lynching Cranebeinn is the best course of action for today. If he does get lynched, I sincerely hope I’m right about him being scum. This game is starting to mess with my brain

Pings, the both of you. I'm not saying I trust Pudding Head, but clearly there's something in play that we might not know about. At this point, not knowing what's going on behind the scenes but knowing that something is going on, it'd probably be a bad idea to policy lynch Cranebeinn right now. At least, not until we know more.

Why the half-assed votes, then? Little more than hitching a ride on the bandwagon with vague statements about Cranebeinn being suspicious and unfulfilled promises to return later with more information (this is mostly directed at Jafri - Ragnvald, at least, has provided some reasoning behind his vote).

Thinking about it, Jafri's post is one of the scummiest I've read all day.

Im sorry I haven't given this game the attention it deserves, this week has been hectic. I will try my best to explain my thinking, but I tried earlier and I am under the impression it won't clear much for you.

When the day started I saw a scum died and assumed vig and assumed the other kill must be the scum kill. Pudding is right, I've played a lot in the past year but I am being completely straight forward when I say I totally forgot about the SK. I know it's unacceptable and people have been lynched for much less, it's just what happened. I have no excuse. After I made that initial observation I reread the day 1 thread and noted tarbens vote, I got a town read from this post and thought others should at least see my line of thought. I could have remained quiet and safe on the topic, but that does not advance the game. There isn't much more I can say to defend myself, the truth is what it is.

With the candidates we have today (myself included) I still feel cranebeinn is the best choice. He's been incredibly scummy since the beginning and it keeps getting worse. If he comes up as town, turn on me. If he's scum, you can reevaluate your opinion of me. It's two birds with one stone. I've given you the truth, I'm sorry I'm not actively responding to your allegations, I'll try to check back in tonight when I get home.

While I appreciate the courtesy, I can't help but find your multiple apologies a little bit curious. If I were scum under fire, I would also want to appease those suspicious of me as quickly as possible.

Moving on, what you've said has more or less confirmed what I gathered from your original post. You wanted to stop people from bandwagoning Tarben... which is strange, because people weren't, and it didn't look like they were going to. Kind of contradicts your earlier claims that you weren't trying to defend Tarben, doesn't it?

What intrigues me most about your post is your last few words. You're encouraging us to go after you if Cranebeinn is town? Why would Cranebeinn being town have such a deep impact on your own allegiance? By the same token, why would Cranebeinn turning scum somehow clear you? Why tell us all this in the first place?

There are too many little contradictions here. Vote: Jarl Name-Loser (jluck)

[Hinckley]

I'm having serious second thoughts on you. Sorry for dragging you into all this.

The way you keep flippantly changing your mind on people reeks of a Serial Killer attitude. Doesn't matter to you what happens. Scum, Serial Killer or Town, your game is off from what I'm used to.

Toki has started a conversation with me in private to figure out how you've blown the entire situation out of proportion. It does seem like backtracking on Toki's part since he started the day explaining how my constant questioning meant I'm Scum and you're clearly backtracking, Tarden.

With the candidates we have today (myself included) I still feel cranebeinn is the best choice. He's been incredibly scummy since the beginning and it keeps getting worse. If he comes up as town, turn on me. If he's scum, you can reevaluate your opinion of me. It's two birds with one stone. I've given you the truth, I'm sorry I'm not actively responding to your allegations, I'll try to check back in tonight when I get home.

I think if we're going to test one of you to see the affiliation of the other, we start with you.

unvote: Toki (TrumpetKing)

vote: Jarl Name-Loser (jluck)

Pings, the both of you. I'm not saying I trust Pudding Head, but clearly there's something in play that we might not know about. At this point, not knowing what's going on behind the scenes but knowing that something is going on, it'd probably be a bad idea to policy lynch Cranebeinn right now. At least, not until we know more.

I felt the same way. I'm glad to hear you voice this.

[Chromeknight]

So. Let's thresh this out.

Assume I'm lynched (I know it's not a lock yet, but the votes are running that way)

Assume you see three kills tonight rather than two (scum, vig and SK)

Assume I flip town and three other town drop too.

Who are you going to go hunting for?

Perhaps the person I originally called out at the start of the day, the quiet and unconvincing Tarr? A pair of scummy bandwagony voters in Jafri and Ragnvald? Kaupmad's clumsy attempt to drop me in cack over a couple of lines to him and Patrekr appended to an already existing thread? Jarl's continuing overstating of a weak case, boosting such ideas as 'town don't defend town' and 'oops I forgot the SK' (aside does that mean he knows my dear dead dad Patreka's murder was the scum?!).

To say 'I'm the only suspect' and 'oh well, don't need to read to closely' betrays a shocking laziness on the part of town and losing four by tomorrow morn will be the reward you reap.

As for 'he only brought up the blocker stuff because votes were on him', that's Megablocks. Bringing info to the town was what got people turning against me.

Anyway. For the reasons mentioned above, I'm ready to cast a blade.

Vote: Jarl Name-Loser (jluck)

[Tamamono]

The way you keep flippantly changing your mind on people reeks of a Serial Killer attitude. Doesn't matter to you what happens. Scum, Serial Killer or Town, your game is off from what I'm used to.

Toki has started a conversation with me in private to figure out how you've blown the entire situation out of proportion. It does seem like backtracking on Toki's part since he started the day explaining how my constant questioning meant I'm Scum and you're clearly backtracking, Tarden.

Think back to the tree game. I'm apt to change my mind a lot as town. It's less backtracking and more rethinking. Real town doesn't have concrete views. Real town amends them as they become more acquainted with the situation.

[Chromeknight]

*this post written with no consultation with puddinghead.

PS. Mist, what you're doing is called fishing. If I'm gonna go down for doing it, you can have a mark against your name too.

[Hinckley]

Think back to the tree game. I'm apt to change my mind a lot as town. It's less backtracking and more rethinking. Real town doesn't have concrete views. Real town amends them as they become more acquainted with the situation.

You don't seem to be as invested this time.

*this post written with no consultation with puddinghead.

No, but you did repeat my case against Jarl rather succinctly.