zeitgeistmovie

[john cleese]

ok so i recently caught this movie that is about questioning authority and talks about some pretty disturbing stuff, infact it seems the most powerful country in the world is run by psychopaths.

zeitgeist

Well i felt it was atleast my duty to share this with the small groups to which i belong. But do you think we have a hope in hell?

[Siegfried]

How dare you say that about Australia!

;-)

[john cleese]

How dare you say that about Australia!

;-)

australia, ill probably flee the jurisdiction and end up there if any of this megabloks takes place.

[gylman]

Egads, mindless America bashing bothers me. The country has some issues, but look at the big picture. Let's assume you are an American (although Cleese if I am not mistaken you are from Canada no?)

Would your life be better in China? Russia? Egypt? YOu planning to leave the US anytime soon for better jobs or better schools, or greater freedom to speak what you wish or read what you wish?

Right.

Seriously - this type of propaganda is all over the Internet. Anyone can pick and choose bits and pieces from 2000 years of history and make a case for anything. Only children believe propaganda like this.

So, as a counterpost, how about this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3zLY1k-4pg

A world without America.

Or maybe this one, by a Canadian:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/sinclair.asp

read the whole thing.... it was done aroudn the time of Vietnam.

Do you have a hope in hell? Well, does your government conduct reasonably democratic elections that usually see a turnover of power without the army getting involved? Does your country permit freedom to any religion? Does your country have the best schools in the world? Has your country won more nobel prizes for science than all other countries in the world combined?

Yes you have a hope in hell.

Unless you choose to mindlessly take everything you have been given by the blood of your ancestors for granted while you contribute nothing yourself, and mock and debase your inheritance, and parrot junk you read somewhere as though it was profound, and decide to move to Cuba for better healthcare because Michael Moore (whom I actually have met - and he's a dickhead) said so. Then you have no hope in hell.

[gylman]

ONE MORE THING.

You know who made this movie? A bunch of "activitists" who believe that 9/11 was a government conspiracy.... YOu know, "Controlled Demolition of the World Trade Center"...

LMFAO.

Right.

What about Roswell and Area 51.

EGADS!

[5150 Lego]

Egads, mindless America bashing bothers me. The country has some issues, but look at the big picture. Let's assume you are an American (although Cleese if I am not mistaken you are from Canada no?)

Would your life be better in China? Russia? Egypt? YOu planning to leave the US anytime soon for better jobs or better schools, or greater freedom to speak what you wish or read what you wish?

Right.

Seriously - this type of propaganda is all over the Internet. Anyone can pick and choose bits and pieces from 2000 years of history and make a case for anything. Only children believe propaganda like this.

So, as a counterpost, how about this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3zLY1k-4pg

A world without America.

Or maybe this one, by a Canadian:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/sinclair.asp

read the whole thing.... it was done aroudn the time of Vietnam.

Do you have a hope in hell? Well, does your government conduct reasonably democratic elections that usually see a turnover of power without the army getting involved? Does your country permit freedom to any religion? Does your country have the best schools in the world? Has your country won more nobel prizes for science than all other countries in the world combined?

Yes you have a hope in hell.

Unless you choose to mindlessly take everything you have been given by the blood of your ancestors for granted while you contribute nothing yourself, and mock and debase your inheritance, and parrot junk you read somewhere as though it was profound, and decide to move to Cuba for better healthcare because Michael Moore (whom I actually have met) said so. Then you have no hope in hell.

*y* *y* *y* *y* *y* *y* *y* Couldn't have said it better myself!

[john cleese]

well let's look at what the real problem is. It's the damn federal bankers, those psychopaths i was speaking of earlier. I dont think you watched the whole thing, simply because it talks about how they are all too happy about the notion of all of north america (including canada) becoming a borderless supernation. This is why i said i would flee the jurisdiction. It also has an interview with a man who made freinds with one of the rockefellers and told him that eventually they were going to have everyone implanted with RDIF chips, allowing them to track your every move and if you go out of line, they'll turn your chip off discluding you from society. Aparently all your profit would be on this chip aswell, If this sounds too bizzare to be true, give me a break, they are already in all new american passports. By no means was i suggesting that we get rid of america, its a strong nation that has played a vital role throughout history, but to get rid of the federal bank which has been a real megablocks disturber since the 30's. The federal bankers even found reasons for america to enter wars that had nothing to do with them for profit, often funding both sides. When the countrys money is spent, you see, it makes them money as they dont simply print bills and give them to the country but rather loan them at interest. The founding fathers knew this would lead to a whole lot of debt and thomas jefferson said that a society with a federal bank is as good as enslaved. I beleive the children are the ones who are to afraid to even accept these notions as atleast plausible, turn a blind eye to them and decide to let nature take it's course. I for one dont necessarily think all this will happen or that all the conspiracies talked about in the movie are true but ill atleast give them credit. Besides this is a 2 hour long movie and if you watched it youd be at your window yelling "Im a human being god damn it and im mad as hell!" I did it. I really did.

EDIT: As for 911 being a conspiracy, i personally found enough evidence of this in the film. One of the structural engineers himself said that the building was built to be able to endure a boeing smashing into it and another one said that it probably would have taken 4 or 5 planes just to knock down one building. Also i dont accept it as a coincidence that it fell just as it would in a controlled demolition and that collumns appeared to have been cut in the fashoin they would cut them i a controlled demolition. Infact i might not beleive that it was an inside job if they had done a better job, but they did a crap job. Also that guy who befreinded the rockefeller was told by him that they were going to have this big war against terror and the twin towers were going to come down and lots of people would die so they would support the war. The guy said to him "well isnt that wrong?" or something to that effect. In response rockefeller said "no, why should yo care about other people. You take care of yourself, you take care of your family and thats it." But i suppose these guys would have nothing better to do than make a little known 2 hour long movie about nothing and show it for free eh?

Ps: the last paragraph of what you said, apparently it was offesive and well just not very polite and also made ridiculous insinuations. But why? thats the question. And what to make of this double post...

Edited August 23, 2007 by john cleese

[gylman]

well let's look at what the real problem is...

John, much, but not all, of the stuff in this film is standard "bankers control the world" conspiracy theory. It has been around for 150 years or longer. Somewhere in heart of this are the Freemasons with their secret handshake, the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, and and a host of other loonie ideas that usually appeal to conspiracy nutbars, the extreme left, and powerless nationalists/racists who blame others for their lack of power and success.

Letting any aspect of your thinking about life and the future be contaminated by this type of sheeite is just silly. Only the losers who believe this type of thing have no life and no future.

Funny you mention Thomas Jefferson. I doubt that anyone can have a higher regard for Thomas Jefferson than myself - probably the wisest American of all time....See post #18 in this old thread

http://eurobricks.hosting.ipsyn.com/eurofo...Jefferson&st=15

"It is always better to have no ideas than false ones; to believe nothing, than to believe what is wrong." Thomas Jefferson

You seriously believe that 9/11 was an intentional demolition? :-(

You'd take the he word of "retired experts", engineers who live at home in the basement with their moms, or "former" goverment workers, over mainstream sources quoting reputable scientists from major universities. Did you seee the recent History Channel show on this?

http://www.history.com/shows.do?action=det...pisodeId=240087

Or read the Popular Mechanics analysis?

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology...aw/1227842.html

You can't be serious, right?

[john cleese]

oh im serious that i accept this as plausible. Plausible, nothing more. I told you that thomas jefferson was against the federal bank seen at 1:14:28. Surely he doesnt necessarily beleive that the unscrupulous federal bank would be beyond killing massive numbers of people to further their wallets, would he? I take this movie with a grain of salt and i also take some of whats on cnn with a grain of salt, and whats on fox news with a whole shaker of salt. I suppose i dont beleive anything anymore except what is manifest, which is little. I just thought this movie contained some interesting information and that i should share it here. Ill admit while watching the movie i was scared as hell though, esp at the rdif chip part and your doubt has alleviated me somewhat so i thank you. never the less the federal bank is a scam and it wouldnt hurt to get rid of it under controlled conditions.

Edited August 23, 2007 by john cleese

[Hinckley]

:-| Oh dear Lord...

Go gylman go!!! :-D *y*

johncleese, you can't believe everything you see or read. Being impassioned enough about something to shout out your window is great 8-| but you should base that passion on more than watching a two hour movie. Check out those links gylman posted and do some of your own research. When you have a lot of facts, then choose what to believe. It's your mind. Don't let other people make it up for you. Those are very heavy accusations to toss about without having any backup but hearsay.

As far as for what the movie is saying, I completely disagree. I have my problems with the current administration and the way things are run currently, but gylman's right. I wouldn't rather live anywhere else. I know I'm lucky to have been born here and try to be thankful every day, esp knowing that there are millions of people out there who live in fear everyday of their government and military.

I was raised a born again Christian and there were people in our chruch who believed that we would all be implanted with chips to personalize our finances and that the chip was actually the mark of the beast described in Revelation. People have been using this silly conspiracy for years to try to get people to distrust the government.

As far as 9/11 being a conspiracy, just do the research...that was such a horrible day and such an ugly thing that happened it upsets me to see someone dishonor the memory of so many innocent victims and so many brave heroes by just jumping on a conspiracy bandwagon uninformed...

[gylman]

the federal bank is a scam and it wouldnt hurt to get rid of it under controlled conditions.

It's more complicated than that. The Federal reserve did a lot to stabilize the American economy in the hectic 1800s when private banks were printing their own money, manipulating currency etc.

When was the last time you read about a "run" on a bank - when the depositors think that it's out of money, and in a panic clear it out, creating a chain of events that lead to a bank failure and then asystem failure? It was a routine occurrence before the federal reserve took on the role of preventing this type of problem.

The Fed Reserve bank wields awesome power, but it is such an enormous organization, spread so broadly, and so tightly regulated by Congress, that the notion that it somehow manipulates the world for the gain of a few people is just not credible. Do you know how closely every tiny move is watched by tens of thousands of very intelligent and very motivated stockbroker, to try to detect some way to take advantage of their moves. I doubt there is a more scrutized institution in the world, because so much money is at stake.

If you get rid of the Fed, what would you put in its place? The Fed acts like a damper on an oscilating dipole - without the damper it can slip into a resonating frequency and suddenly develop an enormous amount of momentum and blow apart. The damper prevents this. The Fed basically does the same with money. We don't get hyperinflation, we don't get deflation, and we have been nicely ticking along at 2-4%

Look at this table:

ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/special.requests/cpi/cpiai.txt

Go to the columns to the far right. Look at Percent change Dec-Dec. That's the annual inflation rate. Look how wildly it fluctuated from 1913 to 1980. From deflation of 10% to inflation of 20%. 20% inflation is devastating to workers and economies.

Now look at 1981 to present. Much steadier. Basically 3-4% for the last 25 years. That's the Fed's effect.

Its a good thing.

So, seriously, if the Fed Reserve was so evil and manipulative, don't ou think people would have noticed by now. People other than the conspiracy theorists? The Bank is manipulative, no doubt, but their goals are good, and they have been very successful in the last 25 years. If we didn't have the Fed at the time of the Tech Bubble burst, there would have been a major depression for sure. Instead, we had a rather minimal recession, and most stocks returned to their value in 5 years. It took 20-30 years for stocks to recover from the great depression.

Sorry for the long winded posts. You have caught me on an agitated night.

[Siegfried]

I find it funny when someone trust someones enough to take advice to not trust someone else. Personally I trust almost no-one enough to accept "facts" from a single source. Look into this yourself instead of watching a packaged fact filled tour.

As for the Reserve bank being evil, that is just plain silly. People have said the same about the Australian Reserve Bank and I don't beleive it either. But gylman has said it far better that I could.

[Hinckley]

Sorry for the long winded posts. You have caught me on an agitated night.

IMO, you shouldn't have to apologize or make excuses for giving your time to help educate someone.

[john cleese]

start watching from 1:14:09 and tell me how these guys are good. Infact it says that the economic instability of the time you mentioned is at the fault of j.p. morgan who put a rumor in the paper that a prominent bank in new york was insolvent, causing the public to make huge withdraws, which affected other banks. Then this Nelson Aldrich proposed a central banking institution to prevent a fiasco like that again. Now to me it seems like a smooth operation. Mainly i have to ask why would anyone make this up? If its because they are losers i'll have to study losers more carefully to get a better understanding of how they opperate. And for the last time i do not accept this movie as the gospel truth, but i give many of its implications the credit of being plausible and i fear and am disgusted by them. Gyl are you telling me youd want a chip implant that carried all your assets? or for canada to become part of the US? Canada as far as im concerned should keep its borders as they are and hold onto its values. Morally Canada is still ahead of America.

[Siegfried]

Gyl are you telling me youd want a chip implant that carried all your assets? or for canada to become part of the US?

For the record, I would happily have a chip implanted if it would save me signing all the time. Why not?

[Hinckley]

For the record, I would happily have a chip implanted if it would save me signing all the time. Why not?

Well if someone wanted to rob you, instead of taking your wallet they could just stealthily scan your flipper or wherever the impant is. There is supposed to be technology that stops it from being scannable, but as hackers have shown us, where there's a will there's a way. And if someone wants to go to your ATM and withdraw all your cash, instead of stealing your wallet they could just chop off your hand and leave you bleeding to death in the alley while they withdraw your life savings.

But who wants to sign for stuff?!

[gylman]

start watching from 1:14:09 and tell me how these guys are good. Infact it says that the economic instability of the time you mentioned is at the fault of j.p. morgan who put a rumor in the paper that a prominent bank in new york was insolvent, causing the public to make huge withdraws, which affected other banks. Then this Nelson Aldrich proposed a central banking institution to prevent a fiasco like that again. Now to me it seems like a smooth operation. Mainly i have to ask why would anyone make this up? If its because they are losers i'll have to study losers more carefully to get a better understanding of how they opperate. And for the last time i do not accept this movie as the gospel truth, but i give many of its implications the credit of being plausible and i fear and am disgusted by them. Gyl are you telling me youd want a chip implant that carried all your assets? or for canada to become part of the US? Canada as far as im concerned should keep its borders as they are and hold onto its values. Morally Canada is still ahead of America.

That's my point though. The stuff that JP Morgan pulled can't be done any more. That's what the current Fed based banking system. That's why we don't get that stuff anymore. The Fed evolved gradually from an old boys club to the most tightly watched financial institution in the world. They learned from their mistakes. The lessons of the early 1900's turned into the economic theories of the 1980's that people like Greenspan used to stabilize financial markets over the last 25 years. The last generation has been a period of unparallelled economic stability, and the Fed gets much credit for this.

I remember that my father had to deal with 18% interest rates on his mortage in the 1970's. That's totally unthinkable in today's society, only 30 years later. The fed gets credit for that.

Some perspective is required for people who think that we are in the grip of some sinister world dominating plot. We live in these times, and we think there are great changes, and things are unstable. But this is the most stable time in modern world history.

I dunno how old you are John, but when I was a teenager, the notion that we coudl easily be anhilliated by Russian nukes was taken for granted. I genuinely worried about this. Hundreds of book were written on the topic. It was a routine topic of movies. People had cottages, bomb shelters, and stuff stocked in case of world war III.

Pick me any 25 year period in modern day history which is as stable, relatively speaking, as the time between 1980 and 2007. You think Iraq is a war? Vietnam - that was a war. Korea, that was a war. WWII, WWI, The civil war. The civil war was the worst war in US history. By far. EVery 30 or 40 years there was some cataclysmic event. But now we are 60 years from WWII, and going strong.

Put in perspective, we live in the best time in human history. Far from perfect, but far closer than at any previous time. That's why I have a hard time accepting all the notions that some evil cabal is manipulating my world. Or, if they are..... let them keep on doing it.

Oh, and as for that computer chip business....it's basically an urban myth mixed up with a cyberpunk science fiction story. Hell, we can't even get our big behind together to put together a wallet card that at least carries all our prescription information so that patients don't get multiple medications unnecessarily.

And I don't know any serious person who would want, or politician who has proposed earnestly, that implanted chip business. In either the US or in Canada. They couldn't even get the V-chip to work out in TV sets. Let alone a human chip.

[john cleese]

i might accept a chip if it wasnt implanted, but i certainly wouldnt like something like that inside me. its weird science fiction social satire stuff that i would just like to stay the hell away from.

Edit: Yeah im a teenager, and i cant be expected to know all this stuff. But Gyl youve almost completely disabused me of all these ideas, and now i beleive that this movies a real crock, except for maybe the religion part.

Edited August 23, 2007 by john cleese

[gylman]

Canada as far as im concerned should keep its borders as they are and hold onto its values. Morally Canada is still ahead of America.

I have a hard time feeling very morally superior to the US. What morals do we have that are better than the US?

My standard of living is largely a result of the strong US economy.

My country does not have to have a real army because the US protects this continent

All the most popular movies and books in Canada come from the US

Whenever there is some product or service that I can't get here, I get it from the US.

The Internet is basically a product of the US. Imagine if Russia or China had invented it. Do you think they would have shared it with the world?

I can't think of anything Canadians do better than the US except posture.

There are issues in the US to be sure, but the inherent strength of the country makes me sure they will come out OK.

Sorry, I watched too many episodes of America Rock on ABC Saturday morning cartoons as a kid to disrespect the US. :-D

Gyl(USFanboy)Man

(yikes, I smell a new title. But I guess that's better than PVC)

[Siegfried]

Well if someone wanted to rob you, instead of taking your wallet they could just stealthily scan your flipper or wherever the impant is. There is supposed to be technology that stops it from being scannable, but as hackers have shown us, where there's a will there's a way. And if someone wants to go to your ATM and withdraw all your cash, instead of stealing your wallet they could just chop off your hand and leave you bleeding to death in the alley while they withdraw your life savings.

But who wants to sign for stuff?!

That is the commonly given reason, but any smart implementation would avoid that. For example, adding a simple password. Then they need to torture you as well as remove your flipper. Much better. *wacko* I wouldn't be interested in any system which had an ID chip with no additional security. I quite like my flipper being where it is. X-D Additionally an ID chip would only contain numbers or a formular and is too easy to replicate so ultimately the ID chip would only be used as an additional ID, like a signature is used for now.

I can't see it happening anyway so it really is a non-issue. People world wide are scared enough of national ID cards.

[Asuka]

Although I don

[john cleese]

i still dont know if i can give some of what you say credit. Just watch at 1:41:55 it talks about the north american union, an agreement that was made behind our backs, and watch until 1:47:56. No matter how much you dislike this movie, this segment i have selected is only 6 minutes. Now explain to me how this could all be made up. Please do Gyl, because im scared as hell.

Edit: here's a link that is just as convincing as any of your references that argues that 911 was a conspiracy.

Edited August 23, 2007 by john cleese

[gylman]

OK John, I worry about your peace of mind, so I watched it again.

Sigh. It's all crap.

From beginning to end. Think about this. Supposedly all these powerful people control all the media, have a total conspiracy for 60 years, but not a single major political leader or country resists them, they cause multiple wars to advance an agenda, are willing to blow up their own centres of function (the Twin Towers were financial buildings... wouldn't it have been easier just to blow up the Whitehouse or Congress?).

So, they have all this vast power and can control everything, but.... but.... but... somehow they can't silence these single individuals who are finally revealing the conspiracy after all these years.

Is that sensible?

Look, ironically, conspiracy theory is a big industry. Websites, books, fan conventions, etc. There are always gullible people out there willing to believe crazy stuff. Selective, slightly "modified quotes", mysterious sources, crazy coincidences, and the Internet makes it all happen instantly and magnifies every little thing.

You can always find some crazy person to endorse any idea. Nothing is more fun than "end of the world as we know it" stuff. http://www.religioustolerance.org/end_wrl2.htm. Read it and have a good laugh, and get on with your life.

Oh, and the dreaded "security and properity partnership"? Hardly a top secret. You can read all you want about it in the Government of Canada website. http://www.pm.gc.ca/eng/media.asp?id=1084. Best as I can tell, its a mechanism for removing red tape from economic activity in North America. I didn't see anything too sinister looking. Not much of a secret though...

[john cleese]

well gyl youve once again swayed me but the fact that (if this were happening), they aren't killing the individuals who revealed the conspiracy can be explained easily. They know these guys are looked at as nuts and wont play a very big role in forming popular views throughout the country, so to kill them would be unecessary and suspicious. I suppose it would also be less suspicious if they did blow up their own building, plus this building was looked at as more trouble than it was worth at the time.

Edited August 23, 2007 by john cleese

[gylman]

Hey! Now your got the spirit of the conspiracy game!

Wheels within wheels within wheels, that's what I always say.

Actually it's time to confess. Our exchange on this topic was actually a carefully orchestrated manouevre to create a discussion, and for me to "appear to convince" John, a "regular" person who is approaching the "truth", that there is nothing to worry about.

OK sheeple, back to your sports, pop entertainment, and stock market speculation, all part of my and Cleese's plan to distract you, while we take over the world.

bwahahahahahahahahahahaha

C'Mon John, our work is done here.

Never mind....