Open loop operations

[zephyr1934]

So I have a ton of 9v trains and I generally appreciate the different benefits of both 9v and PF, but I recently stumbled onto a fantastic use of PF trains that just blows 9v out of the water (at least for me). I guess the principle is the basic fact that PF does not need track power (call me a rocket scientist).

I've got my lego room with a roughly 10 ft x 10 foot pair of 9v loops around the floor and I've got a pair of (usually) well behaved kids. I've been wanting to do a larger, temporary layout for them for some time, but I needed a long day or a whole weekend to do it. That finally came, we were going to build the branch line.

"What do you mean no loop, how is the train going to turn around?"

"'Why' you'll see"

After I built the "split" from my main loop and inserted plastic single crossover switches to connect the two loops in my lego room the rest of the layout grew organically (I knew where I wanted to go and optimized the yard at the end, but everything else was free form). Using push locomotives and some gondola cars, the kids hauled the material out to the "build site" at the railhead. I would stage the track in the supply yard back at the branch from the "mainline." We wound up using almost all of my track (250+ straights) and I had to come back and do some wonky optimization (e.g., using the ME curves in place of straights) but the branch line stretched from one end of the house to the other. The final result (shown below) has a central passing siding and several "industry" spurs that need servicing. The yard at the end of the line in particular has unusual geometries to maximize the straight and curve track usage. There is just enough space for the locomotive to cut off, and back on to the why to turn around, while leaving up to 5 freight cars to be sorted in the yard.

I found it great fun to be pulling a train out of the yard onto the branch line, then have to take the siding while an oncoming freight was approaching from the junction with the mainline and the "city" far beyond. The whole logistics of operating two or more trains on one stretch of non-looping track was a great treat. Sure, it could be done in 9v, but it would be a nightmare of wiring to make enough blocks. I'm already scheming up ideas for the next branch line.

[M_slug357]

Wow, read this thread and thought I'd share this nifty website:

http://www.carendt.com/

Hope you find it interesting too!

[Commander Wolf]

The thing that's missing from this post is the pics of your layout. What's up with that?

I'm still adamant that 9v is the way to go for sustained continuous running, but I've been starting to want to mess with a setup like this ever since I started dabbling in PF locos. I dunno if we have enough track to anything nearly so big though.

[zephyr1934]

Wow, read this thread and thought I'd share this nifty website:

http://www.carendt.com/

Hope you find it interesting too!

Nice stuff, at the national NMRA show last year they had a few layouts in guitar cases and several in suitcases. Easy to do with Z but I think most were a more tricky N scale.

The thing that's missing from this post is the pics of your layout. What's up with that?

I'm still adamant that 9v is the way to go for sustained continuous running, but I've been starting to want to mess with a setup like this ever since I started dabbling in PF locos. I dunno if we have enough track to anything nearly so big though.

Oh, I'm not giving up my 9v, but I am really taken by this whole open loop operations. The layout will probably come down this weekend, but something else will likely crop up some time this summer. While not impossible to do in 9v (I bet AlmightyArjen has done something similar with his powers of automation, grin), it is sure a heck of a lot easier to do this way.

If I get more ME track I might attempt a "mountain" route (just a longer run in the middle with the track doubling back twice, no actual grade change). I have a few poor quality shots of the layout passing through a kids play area. If any of them are half good I'll post them.

Even with less track it could be fun to play with. You definitely need several dozen straight track sections and a few switches, but like figuring out how to get detail in a 6 or 8 wide locomotive, it is a fun challenge to figure out how to get the most out of a limited number of track segments.

[JBucy]

Very cool. Really makes me want to get my layout built!

[Ashi Valkoinen]

Hello zephyr,

We operate our exhibition layout just like you described in the first post. When playing with kids of course you don't want to wire all the blocks to electrify your tracks, but if you decide to do is on events, too, it is worth to create some extended 9V-cables and set up 3 or 4 block (usually each station means one block, if you have a double-track line, then each station means two blocks, one for inner, one for outer line, with insulated crossings). Unfortunately it needs really lots of human resource, but it is a really funny and enjoyable way to operate a layout, instead of leaving one train going around. :)

Each block signals to the other operator with working signals (light or the old one), which tellj the neighbouring operator, when it is free to enter your section.

Edited April 6, 2015 by Ashi Valkoinen

[zephyr1934]

Hello zephyr,

We operate our exhibition layout just like you described in the first post. When playing with kids of course you don't want to wire all the blocks to electrify your tracks, but if you decide to do is on events, too, it is worth to create some extended 9V-cables and set up 3 or 4 block (usually each station means one block, if you have a double-track line, then each station means two blocks, one for inner, one for outer line, with insulated crossings). Unfortunately it needs really lots of human resource, but it is a really funny and enjoyable way to operate a layout, instead of leaving one train going around. :)

Indeed, I remember your post from a show a few months back and that is far deeper open loop than what we did. Much more like a real railroad- the trains run to the end of the block and wait for permission. Do you have a single track main in portions of your layout? Or is it directional double track? Do you also service various industries along the way or otherwise branch the trains off? I can only imagine the detailed wiring has got to be as impressive as the buildings and other structures on top of the layout

[Ashi Valkoinen]

Hello zephyr,

We had double track everywhere. We could used single-track parts, but an open loop operation really needs humans, and for three days it was safer to minimize the probability of train crashes :)

We had some industries, train yards, but because in Hungary these tracks are not electrified in reality, we served these parts of the LEGO layout with PF-shunters on PF-tracks, not by timetable, but occasionally, so these parts didnt need any wiring. Other solution if you put a point where the industry railway joins the mainline, and you power the industry track from the block, where it joins your mainline.

Wiring is not so hard to do, really. My club friend, known as kvp cut couple of 9V cables and put extension cables sold at any shop between the ends of the cable. For one block, we put 9V cable on the speed regulator, other end on the track, if the block is long enough, we power the block from two positions from the speed regulator. Speed regulators can be set up at one operator for neighbouring blocks, so you can manage more blocks from the same position. If you have trains only passing through a block (not turning back) then you can connect 9V cables from two or three blocks on the same speed regulator, making one huge block. If there are more trains, then you put back the 9V cables to their original speed regulator.

Also this guy kvp is working on some security system for 9V trains by now, if I remember well it includes a small circuit which can detect if there is any 9V motor on a section or not, and this thing controll the signals as well, not letting to put signals to green while the block is busy with a train. I think, if he finishes with it, it will need tons of wiring for a layout :)

And back to the original topic, I really like the layout you temporary made for your kid, however, I dont know how enjoyed that operation more, you or your kid. And the idea of so detailed industry railways reminds me to old Budapest (capital of Hungary) industrial track, in the fifties and sixties we had train tracks almost every corner in the city, unfortunately those times were gone before I was born. :(

[Phoxtane]

If I get more ME track I might attempt a "mountain" route (just a longer run in the middle with the track doubling back twice, no actual grade change). I have a few poor quality shots of the layout passing through a kids play area. If any of them are half good I'll post them.

I feel like the traditional loop that many people use in their layouts is great for saving space and defining the 'edge' of a layout, but I feel like having a 'mountain' style route like you describe here would look quite good if you leveraged all the extra space you'd gain in the center - assuming it's laid out with the return loops at the end and the main track paralleling itself - by placing forests, fields, small towns, etc, with a yard at one end of the loop turning into an industrial park.

Hmm. Now I've got ideas.

[zephyr1934]

Exactly Phoxtane, I think I can replace the vertical connection on the left of the original image with four parallel diagonals. If/when I get more ME track I'd definitely attempt it. Still need more track before I can attempt it though... so many projects so little time.