Why does TLG make B-models?

[Omikron]

TLG makes B sets to keep people that are not that good at building mocs interested in the model. A person who hasn't a lot of experience with technic sets sees a pile of gears and stuff and doesn't know what to do with them. He probably has the idea what he wants to do, but can't make it happen so he is basically stuck with self exploration (which maybe very boring) and 1 model. Some people will decide at this point that LEGO is too complicated for only 1 model. So they go and buy other "dumber" toy next time.

However if there is model B such person can build it and enjoy having a "variety". I like B models, because I admire amount of work put in every LEGO set. But I don't like what I call "lazy B models" - the models where 90% stays intact, few panels get rearranged and viola truck into jeep, or unimog into unimog.

[dr_spock]

There are good and bad B models. That's up to your personal tastes. My dusty 8288 is displayed in the B model form.

I think TLG does a B model to make life harder for their designers. Not only do they have to meet a cost target, piece count, part selection...they have to come up a decent B model. Perhaps it is in keeping with the old alt builds printed on those classic set boxes to give kids ideas of what can be done with only that set of parts. It also gives us something to complain about.

[lindr6]

Might be slightly off topic, but what if the cost of a set was reduced by 10% but no b-model. For those that like the b-model, would you rather a cheaper price tag, or keep the b-model?

My opinion, I like the b-model, but would rather a cheaper price tag on the set, then setup a program with MOCrs to develop and deliver quality alternate builds with instructions. I think MOCrs would do the alternate builds for the recognition. Lego could approve and publish the alt builds on their site. Advertisement on the boxes could show that on average, for sets with part counts of x, we normally see y number of alternate models, or something like this. I think this would be a win-win for everybody, what does everybody else think?

[Omikron]

Well B model costs far less than 10%. You are paying for plastic+advertising+shipping. B - model costs maybe less than 0,01%. It's less than a calculation error percent. You are getting B model almost for nothing! I would keep it rather than the money

[Bricktrain]

Eh, "we had too much money, too much equipment, and little by little, we went insane".

http://en.wikipedia....ural_references

In the 80s we were kids without disposable incomes. One large technic set in a year was a special gift.

Technic was for building with; there was no question of leaving anything assembled more than a few weeks. Last week's great MOC was this week's essential parts for something new.

I could say a lot more on this, but I'd probably end up falling off my soapbox:

• official sets are much bigger and more complex, there's a lot more sense of work put into the build, and eh, who'd want to repeat these long, often boring builds?
  
• we have Bricklink, so parts are cheap and endless, no need to break up existing models to create something new
  
• there is a collector mentality to some AFOLs that sees no value in rebuilding, this attitude is very visible in some online Lego communities, especially in any discussion about new sets (there are also acres of internet devoted to MOCs of course)
  
• the idea of displaying Lego has transformed rapidly from being socially weird to being acceptable
  

I have enough spare parts for most MOCs and if not I use BL.

People are amazed to see the built models, many dont believe they are actually Lego. Two Lug shows in NZ have displayed almost all of the technic sets ever made, the Auckland display was most B models also, and was one members private collection, obviously it is not possible to dismantle these sets and rebuild them in time for shows.

My own MODs based on 8285 I keep built but do modify them between shows, my goal is for the original set to remain with minor mods, all the other 9 to be PF and remote. I have a couple of other MOCs that I am building also.

[Ondra]

This is great kids friendly politics.Some b models are way to different from a model, so really 2in1 .Arocs seems to have b model tractor unit with trailer, I think this will be very popular amongst kids.

They are not interested in tricky techniques, but in great playability.

[Kumbbl]

This is the reason why TLG made/makes B-modells as well as it is still the best approach until today:

In long gone previous ages lego made really 2in1-sets ie. really interesting B-models - e.g. 8880, 8862, 8480, 8485, 8854, 8479, 8858 and - as shown above - the best of all: 8868.

This - admitted - very ugly model is one of the most interesting models TLG ever released, regardless if A or B-model... I have just built it agan, just for fun, and it is a joy of build and you can learn a lot, especially if you are a kid: it shows you in a very simple and well understanable way a feedback loop and how to automate several different movements without computer programming - just with air flow. It is a real pleasure watching the model operating after switching on the battery box.

Therefore the old Air tech claw rig 8868 is still the best set TLG ever released because

- the A modell itself is at least among the top 3 models

- it is a real 2 in 1

- the B-modell is a must build for every technic lover

Though i love many of the new studless models i must admit that my one and only love (apart from my wife and my son ;-) was/is/will be this old 8868 set - it is all what the technic line should be - at least IMHO.

BTW: i doubt the new arocs 42043 will change this state even if the new truck is a must have for me and seems to be a real flagship in all aspects.... but i doubt that the b-model will be just half as interesting as this ugly garbage truck of 8868

PS

at least in Germany second hand sets of 8868 in very good condition are not expensive (~ 50 to 80€ with box and BI)... buy two of them and build the A AND the B-modell - you will not regret it!

[Erik Leppen]

Well B model costs far less than 10%. You are paying for plastic+advertising+shipping. B - model costs maybe less than 0,01%. It's less than a calculation error percent. You are getting B model almost for nothing! I would keep it rather than the money

What do you mean? What about the designers? Those don't work for free ;) Designing a model costs time, and this is reflected in the price.

You are always paying people to spend time doing work. That's how economy works. This work may be creating the moulds, maintaining the moulding process, transporting the raw materials to the factory, shipping the sets, designing the models, creating the instructions, advertising, etc. etc. You don't pay for materials, you pay for the time that was spent getting the materials to you. And of all the elements that determine the price of a set, you cannot know which part is which percentage unless you are one of TLC's financial bookkeepers.

My opinion, I like the b-model, but would rather a cheaper price tag on the set, then setup a program with MOCrs to develop and deliver quality alternate builds with instructions. I think MOCrs would do the alternate builds for the recognition. Lego could approve and publish the alt builds on their site. Advertisement on the boxes could show that on average, for sets with part counts of x, we normally see y number of alternate models, or something like this. I think this would be a win-win for everybody, what does everybody else think?

Finally, a good post that actually covers new ground ;)

I like this idea a lot and it should be doable given the current state of the internet.

However, the options are not mutually exclusive. One can have an official alterntive model AND additional alternative models designed by fans.

[Rolic]

I don't understand why hate B-models? Some are really nice. I imagine kids don't use internet so much like AFOLs do, so B-model helps imagine what you could build more. I would be even more happier if back side of the box included pictures of not just B-model (this is a must) but some more images for "Idea models", like they used to do.

Exactly. To develope children imagination - that's still the main goal of the LEGO sets with more than one instruction in them, I think. And even me - soon 30 years - I do like to see what else I can build out of the pile of bricks I receive in the box. For me as AFOL - sometimes the B (and sometimes even the A) model is not all about the looks. It's quite often more about the techniques there has been used. And they do differ quite often between the A and B models. So - try it. You may actually like it ;). There has been sets which I have bought already as donor sets for some of my MOCs. But if it happens that I actually like the set - I do the building process from page one to page last.. all the books. And if possible - together with my daughter (and hopefully my son will join us soon too).

[Josephiah]

For me a decent B-model is essential, and used to be the norm as Kumbbl says. Lured back to Technic last year, the B-model issue was the decisive factor for me to choose between 42009 and the unimog (budget only stretched to one set!). I was still very disappointed by the lack of printed instructions, however.

[Richard Dower]

I think B models extend playability + build experience....the build experience is an essential component as to why Technic is successful.

Also there are fans who buy two sets so as they can build A and B. Also for parts collectors the B model will give them much needed leftover/spare parts.

For the designers it allows them to build something different and unconventional, in some cases.

Its also interesting to see what else you can build with the A model parts. I agree that Lego for children is about fun, education and making them think...using theirs brains to come up with different builds. Lego is very much an educational toy for children...dont forget that!

Edited January 31, 2015 by Richard Dower

[Omikron]

What do you mean? What about the designers? Those don't work for free ;) Designing a model costs time, and this is reflected in the price.

You are always paying people to spend time doing work. That's how economy works. This work may be creating the moulds, maintaining the moulding process, transporting the raw materials to the factory, shipping the sets, designing the models, creating the instructions, advertising, etc. etc. You don't pay for materials, you pay for the time that was spent getting the materials to you. And of all the elements that determine the price of a set, you cannot know which part is which percentage unless you are one of TLC's financial bookkeepers.

Calculate how much money from each sold 200$ model goes into designers salary. It's far less than a cent. That's how economy works. So if the model B costs far less than a cent, I'd rather keep model B than the cost difference.

Edited January 31, 2015 by Omikron

[model850]

I'm new to the forum, but let me shre some of my thoughts about B models in flagship sets. :)

Althought from an adult side of view they may seem as a "cheaper" alternative version of the set, sets are mostly made for kids (target group), therefore LEGO still tries to promote it's basic idea of the unlimited configurability ("build what you imagine"). Kids tend to play with sets, not to collect them like AFOL's often do, and don't see the value adults see. Not only that, but B model adds additional value to the main set alone by expending diversity of themes (somebody may buy the set for the B model alone). Also "unfinished" B model can provide the foundation for implementing additional upgrades (wich won't come cheap if you don't already own the neccesary parts) therefore creating new demand among buyers.

Going a bit of the subject here but I would like to point out the fact that there is change in trend. Seems like LEGO tends to build ever more complex flagship models each year and boosting up their price (possibly targeting adolt group of buyes), but also leaving smaller, more affordable "second best" model for the kids (like this years 42042 crawler crane).

[Bricktrain]

some like the 9396 helicopter the B model I consider as good as the main model, that is why I have both built. I have been meaning to build 42025B but havent gotten around to it yet, but from what I have seen it would appear to be as good as the main set. The new 42043 B model pics look even better than the main model.