Adam Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 Thanks for that explanation of the redirect, Tam! In retrospect we REALLY should have watched TPRU and seen what happened, but at the time we assumed that he was the killer since he redirected onto his target, so we figured there wasn't anything to learn from watching him since we'd just have seen whoever he killed. Guess it would have been a good use of the watch to watch him once we were missing night kills to verify if he was doing anything, but by then he was accepted into the block and trusted. Redirector is hardly a common role. After those first few nights, it was unlikely that TPRU was anything other than the vigilante or the SK. Obviously he turned out not to be, but in any other game using a watcher action on him would've been a waste of time and resources.
mostlytechnic Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 Mencot - thanks for that. You definitely had a good set of restrictions on you so congrats on pulling off a win! The big risk for you was the fine line of wanting lynched but not vig killed. You might have been lucky that the vig was dead night 1 :) Adam - true, I wouldn't have wasted a watch on TPRU most nights, but if I was still alive near the end I might have since I was already sorta suspicious since there were so few night kills. It's just too bad that we trusted TPRU enough to let him in the circle w/o investigation. I REALLY wish as soon as I trusted speedy enough to claim that we'd investigated TPRU to determine vig vs scum killer. Woulda changed the whole game there.
def Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 It's just too bad that we trusted TPRU enough to let him in the circle w/o investigation. I REALLY wish as soon as I trusted speedy enough to claim that we'd investigated TPRU to determine vig vs scum killer. Woulda changed the whole game there. I still would say in 99% of games, what we did would have worked. There's nothing to kick yourself over. About what you were saying about Bob having different information to work with... It doesn't really matter. His theories were so elaborate and detailed, and so very wrong, we just weren't going to give any of it credence. I think it's fine for you on the deadboard to know the vig was dead and whatever else you knew and say, "Something is wrong!" But in game, we had little reason to give a second of it notice. If he had been a lot less passionate about it, maybe it would have been more worth considering. I certainly wasn't strongly lynching PirateDave, he seemed a lot more like a townie than Bob.
MagPiesRUs Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 I think the town did a great job. As has been said, we got lucky a few times, and it would have been hard for the town block to predict what had happened. I think there was one hint that something was amiss though - Stickfig vigilante roleclaim. Why would he be confident enough to claim vig if he knew there might be a counter-claim? Why not claim a safer, less contestable role? That said, a scum win was far from inevitable. If a single thing had gone wrong over the last three days, I think we would have been in trouble. By Day 7, we had killed every non-PR townie - the only unconfirmed players left were adventurer and LegoSpy. If either of them were lynched, it would have made things a whole lot harder.
Bob Posted January 23, 2015 Posted January 23, 2015 About what you were saying about Bob having different information to work with... It doesn't really matter. His theories were so elaborate and detailed, and so very wrong, we just weren't going to give any of it credence. I think it's fine for you on the deadboard to know the vig was dead and whatever else you knew and say, "Something is wrong!" But in game, we had little reason to give a second of it notice. If he had been a lot less passionate about it, maybe it would have been more worth considering. I certainly wasn't strongly lynching PirateDave, he seemed a lot more like a townie than Bob. It's not even worth commenting here anymore since you're so dead set in your ways of thinking, so this will be my last. You're supposed to be passionate in these games. If I wasn't passionate, would you have even paid them any mind? I doubt it. You probably would have been even more sure that I was scum and completely ignored anything I said. The vigilante shouldn't be waiting in the wings, especially not in the late game like that. Every game we're in you never trust me. You could have asked the investigator to look into me long ago like I suggested, or put my name in for the vigilante. It's getting quite annoying coming into a game and being accused by you every single time because you never want to work with me. Then when I'm railroaded out of the game and I show up as scum you say "Hah, Bob sucks! I win again!" or when I come up as town you say "Wow, Bob is really bad at this game. He's so useless!" Just because I don't try to lead the town block every game and be boisterous doesn't mean I'm bad at the game. People go to you naturally because you establish yourself as being a town leader on Day One. Before Day Six started I identified the entire scum team (TPRU and Adventurer1) as being scum. I'd been calling Adventurer1 out since Day One. My scumdar operated fine until Day Six. But fine. Since you'll comment here about how I'm so horribly wrong at everything I just said and that I'm bad at these games, I'll give it to you just so you don't keep bringing it up.
Adam Posted January 23, 2015 Posted January 23, 2015 These kinds of arguments are what I was referring to in my earlier post. I think we ahould all strive to be respectful and avoid personal confrontation in mafia. I know metagaming is hard to avoid, but these are just games. We all have different play-styles. Are some of us better than others? Of course. If someone is bad or new to mafia, the best thing we can do is give them advice on how to improve, not make things heated.
def Posted January 23, 2015 Posted January 23, 2015 Bob, I would be happy to work with you if I thought you were town. As I said, if you weren't so convinced I was scum, we could quite easily had a lynch on Adventurer instead of you. But you spent the whole day making it about me, to the point that the town block had to reevaluate my place in it. And you were the best choice to lynch because of it. It doesn't make you a bad person or anything. If you had been alive, there is a very good chance you would have been investigated that night.
Bob Posted January 23, 2015 Posted January 23, 2015 Bob, I would be happy to work with you if I thought you were town. As I said, if you weren't so convinced I was scum, we could quite easily had a lynch on Adventurer instead of you. But you spent the whole day making it about me, to the point that the town block had to reevaluate my place in it. And you were the best choice to lynch because of it. It doesn't make you a bad person or anything. If you had been alive, there is a very good chance you would have been investigated that night. I'm sorry for snapping at you earlier. I just got a bit annoyed that most of your posts were related to me seriously screwing the game for the town. You'd been calling me scum for most of the game, though. I suppose I got all caught up and saw theories and stuff that wasn't actually there. I reread every day thread and recalled various moments during the game, and since by that point I was sure you were scum, I kept coming up with theories that must have been asinine to the town block. Let's just agree to disagree and say that we both messed up and that the scum played an amazing game.
Walter Kovacs Posted January 23, 2015 Posted January 23, 2015 Sorry I haven't been able to comment yet. Been on a business trip, and internet access was a bit limited. You didn't screw the town. No, I did! At least, in a very unintentional, unforeseeable way. Not that I feel everything is my fault, nor would I have done anything different. Very unlucky then. Yes, very, very unlucky. I know there is a general rule that Vigs aren't supposed to kill on Night 1. Obviously I don't subscribe to that line of thinking. I thought I had some pretty good scum-reads on a few players, strong enough to take a few chances while the numbers were greatly in our favor. It didn't work out very well, but my initial scum list was Jackjonespaw, Stickfig, adventurer1 and TPRU, and I planned on taking them out in that order, with discussions in the day threads being taken into account. If I hadn't used my action on Night 1? A very different game, and one which the scum would have been very uncomfortable in. If TPRU had redirected my action ANYWHERE but back onto me, things would have been different as well. My first instinct would have been that I was blocked, and that there was a Serial Killer on the loose. A normal reaction for most players. What no one would have known is that Goliath had already claimed Blocker to me via PM on Day 1 (By the way, Goliath, we need to talk about that one. ), so I would have been able to grill him gently about whether he blocked me or not. I likely would not have tried anything Night 2. When (if?) Goliath came back with "I blocked someone else", I would have gone searching for alternative answers. Not sure how long it would have taken me to conclude a Redirecto, though. I would have been confident enough to try and lead a Day 2 lynch against Stickfig though. Town was terribly unlucky, but the Scum did do an excellent job of using what happened to best effect. I don't blame Speedy or any other player for this loss (except TPRU ); I just wish someone on the Town side could have spoken up and said "Hey, both Bob and Speedy COULD be Town." Or even, "are we certain the Town Block hasn't been infiltrated?" Even if Bob were lynched that day, throwing out that sort of doubt could have been the push Town needed to scrutinize things a little harder.
jluck Posted January 23, 2015 Posted January 23, 2015 So Walter...your signature...^^^...guess we won't have to wait too long for the next round?!
def Posted January 23, 2015 Posted January 23, 2015 I think the town did a great job. As has been said, we got lucky a few times, and it would have been hard for the town block to predict what had happened. I think there was one hint that something was amiss though - Stickfig vigilante roleclaim. Why would he be confident enough to claim vig if he knew there might be a counter-claim? Why not claim a safer, less contestable role? Thinking back, this one kills me. This was definitely a blind spot for me. I've seen scum claim to be vigs before, but mainly because they think they've been tracked... and so they claim vig to hope to stay afloat a day. That would include admitting who they targeted though, because of the tracking worry. Was that all a bussing thing, or was admitting he had a role in thread a mistake in the first place?
StickFig Posted January 23, 2015 Posted January 23, 2015 Stickfig vigilante roleclaim. Why would he be confident enough to claim vig if he knew there might be a counter-claim? Why not claim a safer, less contestable role? I'm just glad I didn't do more damage to the scum than I did. I would have been confident enough to try and lead a Day 2 lynch against Stickfig though. I'd welcome any pointers from all those who have called me out - I've yet to play as town but apparently I'm absolute rubbish at scum. Was that all a bussing thing, or was admitting he had a role in thread a mistake in the first place? It was a mistake - I have a lot to learn! Many thanks to TPRU for his excellent work to seize the situation.
def Posted January 23, 2015 Posted January 23, 2015 It was a mistake - I have a lot to learn! Many thanks to TPRU for his excellent work to seize the situation. Good Then I was only half-stupid in that situation! I think the thing that called you out for me was your #2 situation. I really don't trust it these days after a game or two being duped by it (much like I get duped by the 'poor wittle me' noobie game Adventurer did). In the bandwagon on me, Adventurer coming in seemed super scummy, while Legospy seemed sheepy. I sent Legospy a PM to say as much, but not Adventurer, as she was at the top of my personal list. In the same way, Bob voting for me after Mencot seemed way scummier than Mencot, though admittedly, it's meta-gaming, I have no expectation of town game from Mencot. People throwing accusations out seem townie to me, if they have reasons. Those people supporting them rub me the wrong way. Especially those supporting me, these days. A lot of past hosts don't care what I do, but some non-hosts hover under the past hosts because of a rep, whether deserved or not, and I'm uptight about fast support (Kovacs supported me day one, and I was very nervous about him). You voted for Calanon, as Pies pointed out, which made me pay a little more attention to you, but that day, you were just aggressively following people (that I remember, it seems like a full year ago). It made me just decide you were the best choice. And that night action claim hammered it, you claimed way too early. I'd love to be perfect all the time, but it's great that I make big mistakes sometimes, to take the focus off of me next time. Next game, harass Pies for not solving the game by day three!
Walter Kovacs Posted January 23, 2015 Posted January 23, 2015 So Walter...your signature...^^^...guess we won't have to wait too long for the next round?! I should have a sign-up thread open this afternoon. My time, not yours, of course.
badboytje88 Posted January 23, 2015 Posted January 23, 2015 (edited) Wow I absolutely loved this game. And I would like to thank our lovely host for all the work and effort he put into this. I am not sure about the count of Scum in this game, but heck it was not my decision to make. This game absolutely had me losing my mind. I had a lovely crowd of people around me who I absolutely trusted. It wasn´t until the word conversion was mentioned that I started doubting if I could trust my team members. Especially Speedy! I investigated him twice this game :p My last night action would be to investigate Addie so I could confirm her affiliation. If Tiny were to kill who we decided to kill, it would pretty much confirm his affiliation too. I really went paranoid on the last couple of days… Thanks everyone who made this game so much fun! Edited January 23, 2015 by badboytje88
Tamamono Posted January 25, 2015 Author Posted January 25, 2015 Night actions and player commentary are up. Some people got more than others, but I still love you all equally!
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