Bob Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 One last thing. I can probably tell you all why Hatley was killed as well. He blocked Pierce on Night Three, as we all know, which led to a Pierce lynch on Day Five. Siegfried obviously knew that Pierce was town, but he probably told Gerald in private that Pierce had to be scum since he was blocked and there wasn't a kill. He had Hatley photographed last night so he couldn't be a liability in the future and so he couldn't come out against Siegfried and the "town block" today.
def Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 Sorry, I was dropping out of this, but I have to comment on the new stupid arguments. Another thing I've only just realized, the numbers don't even support there being a vigilante, investigator, and watcher left amongst the town. Let's analyze what the speaker says. He is saying that he is vanilla and that Molly and I are scum. That leaves five people that could have night actions. He claims that Archie was investigated last night, making him unlikely to be in the town block and therefore unlikely to have a night action. This leaves Bjorn, Tiny, Addie, or Lloyd to have the three night actions, meaning that in Siegfried's mind that there are only three people that aren't confirmed town. So why hasn't he sent the vigilante out to kill us? Why has there only been scum kills for the last few days? Why has he been keeping our vigilante in the wings? The vig killed Kovacs and Brickelodeon, two townies. After that, we decided we needed to be more conservative. Night two, the scum targeted me, and I was protected. Hatley didn't send in a blocking action night two. And again, I am not vanilla, I have the speaker role. Making stuff up is going to just make you look more desperate. The vigilante should be used every night in every game to target the scummiest person. So why hasn't there been a double kill since Night One? No. Just plain no. I only write this for the sake of those who are new to the game. That is absolutely what the vig should not do. For example, when I taught a mafia school, this was the PM sent to the vig: Hi! You are the Town vigilante! You may target a player each night and kill them. THIS IS NOT A MANDATORY ROLE. IF YOU KILL SOMEONE EVERY NIGHT, YOU WILL LIKELY KILL MOSTLY TOWNIES. Only kill if you feel confident. Ask me if you have any questions. For completeness sake, here is the vanilla townie role message: You are a vanilla townie! Some think it's a boring role, but in many ways, it's the main one! You need to be active and smoke out the scum. If you are quiet and apathetic in thread, the scum will slip through among you easily (and you'll fail the game, even if you make it to the end). Use your head, read through strategies on play from umpteen sources on the Internet. Ask me if you have any questions. ALL PLAYERS will be receiving this with their role PM. The reason why? Because it's mafia 101. So much so that I WROTE IT IN ALL-CAPS. So, no, I won't allow this idea to even be floated around. The numbers do not support Dixon. The logic does not support Dixon. The inconsistencies he's made don't support Dixon. He's all for getting rid of the scummy people in the voting process, but he doesn't support sending the vigilante after scummy people? That doesn't make any sense. It's not logical. It does not work. There is no vigilante. I don't know how much plainer I can be. We have been played. I have now brought in numerical data to support my claims. Anybody who supports Dixon is scum at this point. Either that or they are just delusional. You have not brought numerical data to support your claims, since you have no idea how many power roles there were to start, and how many remain. Actually, just as an example to show your calculations to be nonsense, you ignored the role of protector. You messed up your argument, man, like you always do. But that's the problem with being scum: you're making your story up as you go along, so it's hard to keep your facts straight. One last thing. I can probably tell you all why Hatley was killed as well. He blocked Pierce on Night Three, as we all know, which led to a Pierce lynch on Day Five. Siegfried obviously knew that Pierce was town, but he probably told Gerald in private that Pierce had to be scum since he was blocked and there wasn't a kill. He had Hatley photographed last night so he couldn't be a liability in the future and so he couldn't come out against Siegfried and the "town block" today. Good luck, and try not to curse me out on the deadboard too much
Bob Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 Sorry, I was dropping out of this, but I have to comment on the new stupid arguments. The vig killed Kovacs and Brickelodeon, two townies. After that, we decided we needed to be more conservative. Night two, the scum targeted me, and I was protected. Hatley didn't send in a blocking action night two. And again, I am not vanilla, I have the speaker role. Making stuff up is going to just make you look more desperate. No. Just plain no. I only write this for the sake of those who are new to the game. That is absolutely what the vig should not do. For example, when I taught a mafia school, this was the PM sent to the vig: The reason why? Because it's mafia 101. So much so that I WROTE IT IN ALL-CAPS. So, no, I won't allow this idea to even be floated around. You have not brought numerical data to support your claims, since you have no idea how many power roles there were to start, and how many remain. Actually, just as an example to show your calculations to be nonsense, you ignored the role of protector. You messed up your argument, man, like you always do. But that's the problem with being scum: you're making your story up as you go along, so it's hard to keep your facts straight. Good luck, and try not to curse me out on the deadboard too much The Speaker role is something that was given to you after you were elected. Did I ignore the protector? Yes, because you haven't mentioned the protector at all today. I'm assuming the protector was killed off rather early on as well. If you're saying there's still a protector among us in addition to a watcher, investigator, and vigilante, then you're even crazier than I thought. And once again you're being inconsistent. At this late stage in the game, the vigilante should be used every night. The vigilante is not supposed to go out on the first night. That's probably how you caught the Vig. You got lucky and tracked the right person. You're all fine and dandy with "thinning the herd" and voting off Molly, but you had a problem with sending the vigilante out after her last night instead? That doesn't make sense. The two viewpoints are radically different. You are floundering. You're trying hard to counter my points, I can tell, but I've caught you in lies and inconsistencies. You're scum. It's as simple as that. My numerical data is sound. You can't expect people to believe that we have three town power roles left, including the vigilante, and that only a few people are unconfirmed and you're not going to go after them. We don't have a vigilante anymore, you've taken the Vig out of the game. Even if you do manage to convince enough people to vote me out, you've lost. I'll come back as town tomorrow and then you'll be impeached yourself no matter what your fake investigator has brought you.
Bob Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 Sure thing, Bobby Alright then, ignore all of my valid points and try to laugh it off. Siegfried, you don't need to taunt me in private, and I'm not going to reply anymore. Feel free to bring your taunts out into the open.
def Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 Alright then, ignore all of my valid points and try to laugh it off. You have no valid point. You made me having lynched two scum the key of your argument... Until it was pointed out how stupid that was, then you went on to other 'facts' like your math for facts you don't know, and the vig should kill every night whether we have good info or not. You have... no...point. What else is there to do but laugh? You made a gamble today that you could get me lynched based on the fact-free tunnel vision Molly has had on me on day one. You thought you could swing it. It's a fair play. Let's accept your hypothesis that Archie and I are scum. Realistically, the last two scum, since three would be over-powered to town. It's six-two town-scum. I reveal my scumminess today to get you out, and kill a townie tonight. That's town outnumbering us four to two, I'm dead tomorrow, Archie the next day. Game over. Let's hypothesise you are scum. Scum don't know who's in the town block. Maybe town has two PRs plus me. Molly is either scum or just whacked out. She wants a lynch of me desperately (since day one). You think you can leverage this into a lynch on me, so you go for it, thinking I'll go after her first, based on my vote. I turn it around on you. You know I have some votes, so you pull out your B-game (since you have no A-game) to rally town into going for me. In fact, even though the scum are guaranteed to lose even if you are lynched, you bend over backwards to defend yourself and go after me. You said yourself in PM and in thread, you're just a vanilla willing to die for the town if need be. But when the lynch comes to you, you play more in one day than in the whole of the days prior. Why not just wave a white flag, declare you're a townie and demand my lynching tomorrow, since the town will have the numbers and two 'confirmed by Bob's evidence' scumbags, knowing that town will decisively win? Why not? Well, because you're scum, and you're desperate. So, those are the two hypotheses that people can weigh over. Good bye, Bobby
Bob Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 I'm not going to sit idly by anymore whilst the town follows you blindly in whatever lynch you want. I'm willing to bet that if I had said nothing today, Molly would have been bandwagoned out of the game, you would have taken out a townie tonight, probably me, claimed that the scum targeted you and the vigilante must have made a mistake, and set up the lynch on another townie. Obviously you're not going to give up and accept defeat, you're going to keep on fighting. If I still believed you to be town, I would have fallen on my sword and taken one for the cause, but people need to understand that you're scum. There was no backlash against you when you set up the Pierce lynch, why should I expect backlash against you for mine? You'd have probably said "Damn, and he was so scummy too! Typical Bob, I can never read that guy right!" Then you would have produced a megablocks investigation report from your fake investigator and gotten another townie impeached. You've lost the game. A town victory is going to be assured when you're lynched today and there's nothing you can do about that. Like I said, you're floundering. The whole arrogant townie trick isn't fooling me, and I should hope it's not fooling anyone else anymore.
def Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 It's time to vote. You've heard the 'evidence'. I've seen Lenny, Tiny, and Addie following along, but they are conspicuously quiet.
Lego Spy Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 Alright. I'm going to go with my gut feeling here. Vote: Bobby Benedict (Bob) I feel like "bussing" off two of your scum teammates would overall be a very poor decision on the scum's part, and certainly not a mistake Siegfried would make. Also, Bob, your sudden participation in making defenses/accusations/general playing of the game seems more like a scum struggling to hang on to life than a vanilla townie trying to help his team get rid of scum. I could be completely wrong on all of these points, but, as the saying goes, only time will tell.
Bob Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 Alright. I'm going to go with my gut feeling here. Vote: Bobby Benedict (Bob) I feel like "bussing" off two of your scum teammates would overall be a very poor decision on the scum's part, and certainly not a mistake Siegfried would make. Also, Bob, your sudden participation in making defenses/accusations/general playing of the game seems more like a scum struggling to hang on to life than a vanilla townie trying to help his team get rid of scum. I could be completely wrong on all of these points, but, as the saying goes, only time will tell. You are completely wrong. You're ignoring all of the evidence I've provided that's being sarcastically ignored by Siegfried for a reason. I will repeat again. I was not in line to be lynched today. Why would I be flailing? Why would I out Molly so much as a fellow scum? I could have ridden out the rest of the day in complete silence as I had been doing. I was brought up as a potential suspect by a few people, but the bandwagon had already been started by Siegfried against Molly. You're being played. Siegfried is taking advantage of your inexperience in this game by making it seem extremely unlikely that a scum would bus two of his own. This has been done before. It puts him in such a powerful position as this that he can manipulate you. You're being fooled. I don't know why it's so hard for you to understand this. I'm not giving up on this either. As much as Dixon would love for me to throw my hands up in the air so he can taunt me some more, I refuse to stand down. He is scum. You are making a mistake not voting for him. I have provided evidence to you about the numbers. There are eight of us. The speaker is telling us that there's four pro-town power roles, and that he's in control of one. Archie is apparently clear and not in possession of a night action according to him. That means that there are three people that Dixon wants you to believe are unconfirmed town. Why did he not order the vigilante out last night to take out Molly? He was ready and rearing to vote her off today, but not willing to send the Vig after her last night? Why? Because there is no vigilante anymore! You're just seeing scum kills that Dixon is controlling. Tonight you will see only one kill, and it will be by the scum. That is because there isn't a vigilante. The vigilante is long gone. Are you going to ignore the possibility you're being fooled, all of the inconsistencies, the numbers that suggest he's lying, all of that because suddenly I'm active? He's counting on people like you to follow him like sheep. I urge you to switch your vote. For someone who seemingly washed his hands of my arguments a few hours ago, he's been back quite a bit to comment and taunt, and has even PMed me to taunt more. He's also been watching the thread intently. Why? Because he knows he's been caught and he wants to make sure all his sheep are shepherded in line.
def Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 Bobby is gone, but I'm saddened that Tiny and Addie don't seem to care
Bob Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 Bobby is gone, but I'm saddened that Tiny and Addie don't seem to care Don't tell me you've forgotten how to do count. There's currently four votes against me. Five are needed to lynch. Tiny and Addie are actually providing thought into what I've been saying. I wouldn't be surprised that if, as speaker, you have some sort of tie-breaking ability. I will try to break it down again. If there are three scum left, the game is over today. If there are two scum left, we may still have a chance. There is no vigilante. The person you will see going out tonight is the scum killer sent by Siegfried. He will claim that the scum targeted him again since he's a narcissist and he thinks it's all about him. Do not buy that we have an investigator, vigilante, watcher, protector, and speaker still on the town's side. With the diminished number of people left, it does not make sense that he isn't sending the vigilante out to start picking off people he finds scum. This is because the vigilante is gone and he's sending the scum killer out. Any "master plan" or strategy he's going on about in private is the strategy of the scum. Please appeal to reason and logic rather than "trusting your gut." As our own game host will tell you, going with your gut isn't always the best option... Whoops, I forgot how to do grammar in that first sentence.
Lady K Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 Well, the day has progressed as I had suspected it would. Based on Bobby's posts and Mr. Speaker's reply's, I can see valid points in both and very gray areas in both. I do know that Mr. Speaker is very good at manipulation on both sides; I've seen it, been fooled by it, and been mistaken by it. I may even be mistaken now, but my gut feeling is that our Speaker is not who he seems. Things just don't add up with his inner circle power roles group. And the only PM I had with him didn't exactly leave me with a warm and fuzzy trusting feeling. Vote: Siegfried Dixon (Speedy)
def Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 Please appeal to reason and logic rather than "trusting your gut." As our own game host will tell you, going with your gut isn't always the best option... but my gut feeling is that our Speaker is not who he seems. Weren't you listening? Your scum buddy just said not to trust your gut! You've outed yourself as scum. Whoops! No worries, you can smack yourself in the forehead in the post-game.
Tamamono Posted January 16, 2015 Author Posted January 16, 2015 Vote Tally Bobby Benedict (Bob) - 4 (Speedy, badboytje88, Adam, LegoSpy) Siegfried Dixon (Speedy) - 3 (Bob, Mencot, adventurer1) 9 hours remain. With 8, it takes 5 to impeach
Mencot Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 So Me Speaker, everybody who will vote against you are scum? You are so full of yourself! - This is a game, everybody may play it as they seem most fitted. - Me ~ Mr
Lady K Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 Weren't you listening? Your scum buddy just said not to trust your gut! You've outed yourself as scum. Whoops! No worries, you can smack yourself in the forehead in the post-game. Is that best you can come up with? Your response makes you seem even scummier than before. Even you have used your gut feeling before. I have been ignoring the feeling that you are not who you are portraying yourself as the whole game. Bobby is not my scum buddy, but he had some valid points. Things that make sense. If I have made a mistake then so be it, I'll deal with it tomorrow.
Bob Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 There is no way the scum team would come out in full force like this. According to Siegfried as well, there's only two scum left. Why are there three people voting for him? People are listening to reason, and I urge you to as well. He's getting desperate and he's bound to start making more mistakes. We need to keep putting pressure on him. He's already playing up the arrogant townie card by discounting all of my claims and not trying for a defence. Tiny, Lloyd, and Bjorn, please read more carefully and think about your votes. Have I made a mistake in this game by not being the most active? Perhaps, but I've been critical of him for this entire game, you can look back and check. But somebody needs to take over in trying to lead and marshal the town since we've been fooled by Dixon this entire game.
def Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 Yes, the whole game you were suspicious. So, I guess you think it's likely that I bussed two scum players to stay in front. Got it. Your PM thing, where you play the "I just don't know what to do?" never truly works. The first time, it gets you a stay of execution, the second time, it gets you the vig kill. Bobby tried it once. Once. But I can see him giving you that as a suggestion, since you can almost get away with it once. Feel free to post he PMs I sent that gave you your gut feeling. I'm curious about it myself. That was @ Addie Bob is just flailing, So Me Speaker, everybody who will vote against you are scum? You are so full of yourself! - This is a game, everybody may play it as they seem most fitted. - Me ~ Mr No, you're probably town. Stupid, remarkably stupid, but town. Bobby and Addie seem to be the remaining ones.
Bob Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 Your PM thing, where you play the "I just don't know what to do?" never truly works. The first time, it gets you a stay of execution, the second time, it gets you the vig kill. Bobby tried it once. Once. But I can see him giving you that as a suggestion, since you can almost get away with it once. Wrong. I did not try it once. My first pm to you was an apology because I seemed to have offended you on Day Three. Then I listed to you the people I thought were scum. Then I offered for you to investigate or kill me so the town wouldn't waste a day on me. Little did I know that at that point, we no longer had either role left. Never have I said to you "I don't know what to do!" or any other iteration of that. That's another lie I've caught you in. Please people, see this for what it is. He is floundering and he's bringing in an air of superiority and arrogance to try and disprove our points. To metagame slightly, since he's been doing it, I have been playing Mafia for years now, much longer than Siegfried. Am I very good at it? Perhaps not. Have I gotten better? Maybe. But I've seen a lot and that's why I know it's not farfetched. He knows it's not either, but he's taking advantage of you. Tiny is the only other one here who knows I'm not flailing or being crazy, and that's why he hasn't voted yet. He's actually considering what I've said and I urge all of you to do so as well.
Lady K Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 Yes, the whole game you were suspicious. So, I guess you think it's likely that I bussed two scum players to stay in front. Got it. Your PM thing, where you play the "I just don't know what to do?" never truly works. The first time, it gets you a stay of execution, the second time, it gets you the vig kill. Bobby tried it once. Once. But I can see him giving you that as a suggestion, since you can almost get away with it once. Feel free to post he PMs I sent that gave you your gut feeling. I'm curious about it myself. That was @ Addie Bob is just flailing, No, you're probably town. Stupid, remarkably stupid, but town. Bobby and Addie seem to be the remaining ones. I'm going to assume based on your @Addie that the above post was meant for me. First off, I don't believe in posting PMs, they are part of the game yes, but to actually copy and post doesn't feel right to me. But I can give you the content, it starts with a threat from you that who ever doesn't PM you will be thought of as scum and that you are already in contact with others. This to me meant that you already had your group formed and were testing who wanted to be team players and who didn't. Then all you did was describe how I should and shouldn't play. You didn't try to get anything from me and you didn't offer anything either, not that I expected you to. This told me that I was an unimportant vanilla townie to be used at your disposal and you already knew my loyalty. Not cool. Then when I was confused about something and asked you a question, you side stepped the issue and responded very blandly. This told me you really didn't care what I thought or did so long as I followed your lead. You seem to be side stepping issues brought up, and the one that concerns me the most is the constant conflicting points brought out in the open that you are ignoring. I am still confident with my vote, again if I'm wrong I'll deal with that tomorrow.
Mencot Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 When Mr Nixon now claim he is a vanilla town, he should be ready to sacrifice himself for town. But is he, NO. He is so arrogant "I Am the speaker."" I have killed two scum... Alone." We will see tomorrow who is right Bobby or Siegfried!
Bob Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 Vote Tally Bobby Benedict (Bob) - 4 (Speedy, badboytje88, Adam, LegoSpy) At least one of you has to be town, if not two. If all four of you were scum the game would be over. I can't urge you enough to reconsider your vote. Dixon has not actually brought any evidence up against me other than the fact that I'm going against him and that I've been quiet. The rest of his posts all day today have been laughing off my accusations and insulting my evidence away. Why can't you people see this? This exact strategy has happened in Ragnarock Now II. The scum team was myself, fhomess, Hinckley, def, and WhiteFang. Def himself was caught up as scum in a lie and by activity and we had to bus him to strengthen our position. Sound familiar? Then we bussed fhomess in order to put up the ruse that we had an investigator, when there in fact, was not an investigator anymore. Ring any bells? This exact strategy has happened before on a team that Siegfried was on. I normally don't metagame this hard, but it's important to know that you're being lied to. Please don't be sheep. If Dixon really is a vanilla townie, then the scum loses because we've all just outed ourselves today and somebody else can get the speaker position. If Dixon is really scum, there's no way he's going to allow a town victory now that he's been outed so hard. Tonight, the scum are probably going to kill the town watcher. I believe this person is the only town power role that we have left, but the problem is that the scum already know who he is since they've permeated the "town block" so hard. The vigilante that's "being held back" will continue to be held back and Dixon will use the excuse "but Bob was being so scummy, we had to lynch him and you all agreed with me. Let's lynch Addie today." And you will all follow him again, because you're already all being sheep. We don't know if we know everything about the Speaker role. Dixon might be lying about the exact powers of the Speaker. The speaker could act as a tie-breaker or could act as a judge to change the lynch around. The point is, it's dangerous to let him continue having the role if it's between me or him. And if he's vanilla townie as he claims, the town loses nothing from him being gone and gains the identity of the scum. We must vote off Dixon today. There are only a few hours left in this day. At the very least don't not vote so you can be silenced tomorrow and give an extra vote to the scum. I've appealed to all of you (except Archie) privately. There's not much more I can do if nobody is going to post here and everyone is just going to be a sheep in Dixon's flock.
Lego Spy Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 Alright, call me scum and an idiot Siegfried, but I'm changing my vote. I've been thinking about it alot, and I feel we need an impeachment today. I don't know how Tiny feels, or if he'll even vote, but I think we do need a lynch today, and overall I think Speedy's defenses to Bob's accusations haven't been sufficient enough to justify his claimed townness. If Siegfried is town, then Bob will definitely be at the top of my list for tommorrow. Unvote: Bobby Borchard (Bob) Vote: Siegfried Dixon (Speedy)
Tamamono Posted January 16, 2015 Author Posted January 16, 2015 Vote Tally Siegfried Dixon (Speedy) - 4 (Bob, Mencot, adventurer1, LegoSpy) Bobby Benedict (Bob) - 3 (Speedy, badboytje88, Adam) 4 hours remain. With 8, it takes 5 to impeach
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