Problems with BS / Is BrickShelf no more ???

[gylman]

http://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=209378

This message from Troy at Bricklink should provide further reassurance.... no details, but Troy is a pretty level headed guy from past experience and extremely well connected in the AFOL world.

So, let's all (myself included) take a big breath....

[Starwars4J]

http://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=209378

This message from Troy at Bricklink should provide further reassurance.... no details, but Troy is a pretty level headed guy from past experience and extremely well connected in the AFOL world.

I'm afraid I'd have to disagree there, glyman. Firstly Troy is just speaking from the same knowledge we all have, the pictures came back up, and therefore they must be safe, despite brickshelf being down.

Also, level headed? This guy was the one who called everyone who was upset a bunch of "whiney vultures". In fact apparently he's an admin over at classic-castle. He called us all a bunch of whiney vultures (followed by 'I expected better from you at c-c"), to which I took great offense. I asked him to rethink that because those were harsh words, and that I disagreed. He told me that he would not rethink them, and re-emphasized exactly why I am a whiney vulture. Apparently this man cannot discern between "whiney" and "angry".

I followed up saying that he should still probably not make such general use of that, as anyone who used the site freely, according to him, was a whiney vulture. He then proceeded to continue with his horrible attitude, berating me for "being negative when we don't even know it's permanent" (totally ignoring my posts of "IF it's permanent"), and then closed the topic, getting the last word.

The next day every single person at c-c who was pissed suddenly would JUMP on anyone who said it was wrong of Kevin, and that he was totally in the right. Apparently their loving Troy scared their entire userbase to death. Either that or the "well he's the leader so he must be right" syndrome kicked in, and turned them all into mindless drones. Again I expressed my dismay at it being turned into a pay-site, and I was jumped on again. I did, however, ask the member not to call me "stupid" for my opinion, and you know what? He listened. And it became diffused very easily.

Now I had sent Troy a PM stating that I felt he was not only out of place to insult me like that, but that abusing the userbase is way out of line. Similarly, I said that while he feels I spat on Kevin, I felt he spat on my entire career as an AFOL by calling me a "whiney vulture". He continues to berate and belittle anyone who argues otherwise, by the way. I then sent him a second one immediately after saying just to forget it, and that I don't care for an argument, and just wished that he'd be more careful about insulting people over something like this.

Today everything was fine, until I log-in and randomly find myself banned.

That's right, I've been banned for the first time in my life, because I had the "nerve" to disagree with an admin. That's something about EB, you're allowed to disagree here. Hell, lively debate is encouraged. And if someone feels an admin insults them, they're allowed to say so without getting a ban and no explanation. This whole ordeal has severely embittered me towards that website. It's also shown me two things. Firstly you're not allowed to have your own opinion if it differs from that of the staff there, and secondly you're not allowed to stand up for yourself if you think you're being treated unfairly and verbally abused. "Troy" has one hell of a power trip and needs to get a grip that everyone will not agree with you 100% of the time. Forums are here to help spread ideas and bring people of differing points of view together. If you want just your own point of view, best to record yourself talking and play it on loop all night.

[Siegfried]

Today everything was fine, until I log-in and randomly find myself banned.

What the M%gaBl$cks! >:-( You were banned over that! Sad to say this incident is not bringing out the best in the Lego community. I do agree with this Troy to a point, that is that some were being overly offensive to Kevin, but one has to understand that people are understandibly annoyed and calling people "whiney vultures" is not going to stop that. This has been handled very badly by Kevin and if he expected people to not be annoyed and even angry at losing access to ten years of work from the Lego community he must live on another planet. An explanation would have made a huge difference, and the closing of the https backdoor last night (last night for me anyway) proved that this is not a technical issue, this is a either a time or financial issue, both of which the Lego community would have been prepared to offer if he asked. Look at the example of Peeron a few months ago; they needed a new server, asked, and got one.

Hopefully this will all calm down and things will get back to normal. It is hard to believe though.

[Asuka]

Forums are here to help spread ideas and bring people of differing points of view together.

That

[ZeekyBoogeyDoog]

Today everything was fine, until I log-in and randomly find myself banned.

I am very sorry this happened to you so unjustly. What a jerk >:-( !

[Berry Syedow]

Guys, let's not drag Troy through the dirt. It certainly won't improve the situation. :-/

However, I disagree with his actions as far as banning StarWars4j is concerned. What I think you guys need to do is apologize to each other and make up. If you don't both of you guys will turn this event into a big hate fest and divide EB from C-C.com. Remember that at one point we hosted the c-cers when their server crashed. You two represent both of these communities, do what's best for them and for yourselves.

Make peace, not war. ;-)

[Starwars4J]

Well let's not go name-calling now. That's what I disliked from the start. While I disagree with what happened, I don't want to stoop to name-calling. I was highly offended at what was said, and apparently he was also highly offended at what I said about being highly offended :-D So let's just leave it at that. I just had to say something after hearing how "level headed" he was though...

[Norrington]

I am very sorry this happened to you so unjustly. What a jerk >:-( !

Indeed. This "Troy" person needs to take a chill-pill/injection. I mean, banning over a debate? What a load of B.S.

[Siegfried]

Make peace, not war. ;-)

I'm with you. Please everyone, don't burn any bridges that can't be rebuilt. We can't let Brickshelf apparent death turn us against one another.

[Starwars4J]

I'm with you. Please everyone, don't burn any bridges that can't be rebuilt. We can't let Brickshelf apparent death turn us against one another.

Indeed. Like I just told another member, I'd sooner leave EB than let this cause any sort of problems, so I'm hoping there aren't. I recanted that story as a person, not a mod. I don't think Troy is a bad guy, I just think he was really stressed out, as a lot of us were. Hell, I was stressed out too.

[Siegfried]

I guess that Joe Strout had a very propper vision in his two years old post:

I think this is the best plan. This would enable people to use any host they want, yet everything would be just as findable. I have been giving this some thought lately as I am a computer programmer. However, please don't get me wrong; I am not a miracle worker and I do not have the ability to produce this magical Peer-to-Peer index out of my M$g!Bl&cks overnight. I do however think unless BrickShelf is bought and controlled by someone else, some one who keeps in contact with the community and seems to care, this might be the only solution that people will be able to trust now.

[ZeekyBoogeyDoog]

Well, I think that to ban someone over Brickshelfgate is inexcusable behavior on the part of an admin. But I will apologize for my bilious comment.

[Siegfried]

Brickshelfgate

I second this name! :-D

[Hinckley]

I second this name! :-D

I'll give it a third. So, it's official. Brickshelfgate. Apparently here at EB we only need three votes to coin a new term...

It's easier that way.

WTF?!??! So much LEGO drama...SW4J, I'm sorry to hear you were banned, but you should honestly think about having an opinion before having one. If you want to express it but everyone else has a different opinion, you should just change your opinion! Lesson learned? Good. *wacko* In case you can't tell I'm being sarcastic.

What an aggravation. What a MegaBlocks-head. That's a shame too because his BL store usually has some good stuff and now I don't want to buy from it. I'll probably be blocked after typing that anyway...

I wish people would remember that LEGO is about fun and they should leave stupidity where it belongs, with the Megablocks.

EDIT: As a web designer, I have also been giving some though to building a Brickshelf alternative, i even bought a domain. But reading Joe Strout's post makes me think there are people out there better equipped. I am not the type of person who calls anything about P2P cgi-scripting trivial...

EDIT 2: It looks like SW4J's new best friend has brought his hatespeech, unprovoked, over to LUGNET. If I ever get that self-important, someone whack me in the head, please!

[JINZONINGEN73]

I just had to say something after hearing how "level headed" he was though...

Indeed, there's nothing "level-headed" in banning a person who merely disagrees.

Kevin's done something inexplicable, he's done it before, and Troy needs to realize that your reaction is based on those past actions of Kevin.

I'm with you. Please everyone, don't burn any bridges that can't be rebuilt.

The only bridge burning I see has not been with Starwars4j.

True, we're all a bit frazzled and hurt, but banning people with opposing views is just not called for.

Likewise, calling people who've put 5 or 10 years of their life into their art "whiney vultures" isn't called for either.

And Kevin, doing this yet again... also not called for.

It's not us burning bridges, we're only being burned alive by others.

...If you're not let back in to Classic Castle within, say, 24 hours... then it's unworthy of your presence.

Any site that bans / punishes people for voicing their opinion when things are going wrong are better left cold turkey.

(And to those who know me, you know I've made good on my particular problem with a certain site).

Silencing members for wanting resolution to insane things that never should have happened?

Inexcusable.

[Asuka]

EDIT: As a web designer, I have also been giving some though to building a Brickshelf alternative, i even bought a domain. But reading Joe Strout's post makes me think there are people out there better equipped. I am not the type of person who calls anything about P2P cgi-scripting trivial...

And I even don

[Grand Moff Viceroy]

The end of brickshelf will mark the beginning of a new era and the end of a peaceful AFOL community, jk

[Siegfried]

EDIT: As a web designer, I have also been giving some though to building a Brickshelf alternative, i even bought a domain. But reading Joe Strout's post makes me think there are people out there better equipped. I am not the type of person who calls anything about P2P cgi-scripting trivial...

Neither am I. I know near nothing about web site scripting. I do know a bit about network protocols and I have even created my own. Thus the only solution that I could even attempt to offer would be an application... and I am seriously considering looking into it. I have been wanting to experiment with Peer-to-Peer protocols for a while.

The end of brickshelf will mark the beginning of a new era and the end of a peaceful AFOL community, jk

I hope you are wrong, but the signs indercate you are not. :'-( Darn.

[Lord Admiral Helden Ravensdorn]

My opinion on all the banning/namecalling/drama is:

Its colored plastic bricks. Get over yourselves.

:P

What irks me about the Brickshelf thing is:

No warning

No explanation

After so many years of service and providing such a pillar for the entire Lego online community, Bshelf just dissapears.

0_0

Edited July 16, 2007 by Lord Admiral Helden Ravensdorn

[Hinckley]

Neither am I. I know near nothing about web site scripting. I do know a bit about network protocols and I have even created my own. Thus the only solution that I could even attempt to offer would be an application... and I am seriously considering looking into it. I have been wanting to experiment with Peer-to-Peer protocols for a while.

Hey you got your chocolate in my peanut butter!

8-| If you guys didn't have those reese's commercials that wouldn't makes sense. What I'm saying is maybe we can put our heads together to create a replacement. My only fear with attempting anything like that is I would experience LEGO overkill and end up hating it...and myself...and my walrus friend...and all of you...and the B-52's...and I can't live without Rock Lobster.

[Starwars4J]

Hey you got your chocolate in my peanut butter!

8-| If you guys didn't have those reese's commercials that wouldn't makes sense.

I actually used that reference the other day and nobody got it :'-( I can always count on you, Hinckley *wub*

On topic though, this sounds like quite a large undertaking. Are you guys actually considering it, or bouncing ideas off each other?

Edited July 16, 2007 by Starwars4J

[Corvus]

Oh no, we're quoting a junk food company, what next... X-D

I'm using maj.com for a temporary solution so I can put up picks for whack-a-fig. I will remove them when, or if, brickshelf gets back up. If BS never comes back, then on to flickr I go. My point is, we probably shouldn't use maj for lego. It's not really meant for it. It will mix too much.

[Troy]

I'm afraid I'd have to disagree there, glyman. Firstly Troy is just speaking from the same knowledge we all have, the pictures came back up, and therefore they must be safe, despite brickshelf being down.

Today everything was fine, until I log-in and randomly find myself banned.

That's right, I've been banned for the first time in my life, because I had the "nerve" to disagree with an admin.

You are making assumptions with your post that are incorrect. This is exactly what lead to your problems at Classic-Castle as well.

I HAVE more information than I have stated publicly, and I know for certain that the images have not been lost.

Today everything was not fine. You stated via PM that you would not reply to any more BrickShelf related threads. And then you did. Multiple times. And with more erroneous assumptions and negativity.

You stated as fact that BrickShelf was going to a pay system (Unknown at this time) and then you included this personal attack on Kevin:

"That's why he closed the site after we could get in. He didn't WANT us to back up our own pictures because there was money involved. With so many places he could have gotten financial support from, turning the site into a fee-site seems like just a sad excuse to get money from us. "

The above is not merely expressing anger at the loss of the site, it is a personal attack on the integrity of the owner of the site. You may tolerate such things here at EuroBricks, but we do not at Classic-Castle. And it is completely false.

It is negativitly like this that lead to my initial post in the first place. It does nothing to help the situation, it actually hinders it. Kevin could be diligently working every waking moment to get the site back up, and how do you think such attacks are going to make him feel? Like it is not worth the effort, that is for sure.

So, as I said before and will keep saying, be patient and this situation will resolve itself.

Troy

[Starwars4J]

You are making assumptions with your post that are incorrect. This is exactly what lead to your problems at Classic-Castle as well.

I HAVE more information than I have stated publicly, and I know for certain that the images have not been lost.

Yes Troy, we all know they haven't been lost. We saw them up earlier when the secure log-in was found.

Today everything was not fine. You stated via PM that you would not reply to any more BrickShelf related threads. And then you did. Multiple times. And with more erroneous assumptions and negativity.

Actually I believe I said I wouldn't post in that thread anymore, which wasn't a problem since you locked it after you told me off.

You stated as fact that BrickShelf was going to a pay system (Unknown at this time) and then you included this personal attack on Kevin:

"That's why he closed the site after we could get in. He didn't WANT us to back up our own pictures because there was money involved. With so many places he could have gotten financial support from, turning the site into a fee-site seems like just a sad excuse to get money from us. "

Actually it was talked about on the Bricklink forums that it was going pay, and was I wrong about that? And excuse me, Troy, but since when is expressing an opinion on something that I consider to be an atrocity worthy of being banned? I expressed an opinion that was different than yours. Instead of just dealing with the fact that my opinion differed, you had to sink to calling me names which was childish and inexcusable. Honestly I don't care who you are, if you start flinging mud at me, do you honestly expect me to just roll over and say you were right? You were insulting and out of line. Period.

The above is not merely expressing anger at the loss of the site, it is a personal attack on the integrity of the owner of the site. You may tolerate such things here at EuroBricks, but we do not at Classic-Castle. And it is completely false.

Firstly, leave Eurobricks out of this. This has nothing to do with my position here, I would be appalled if you talked that way to any user. And if you insist on making this about Eurobricks I will step down from my position as moderator. And in case you didn't know, similar statements are being made on every single lego-related site on the internet. Maybe there's a kernel of truth to them? Even if not, I'm allowed to express how I feel.

It is negativitly like this that lead to my initial post in the first place. It does nothing to help the situation, it actually hinders it. Kevin could be diligently working every waking moment to get the site back up, and how do you think such attacks are going to make him feel? Like it is not worth the effort, that is for sure.

Except we've all seen that isn't the case. And if he is, god bless him, but I will not allow my right to have an opinion become infringed upon by someone with an ego-boosted power trip. You insulted me. You could have contacted me via PM and tried to talk this out calmly, but no, you had to stoop to elementary-level mud-slinging. You could have been calm and reasonable, but you had to be irrational and mean. I don't know if that's how things are done at classic-castle, but that's not how humans behave. At least not adults. You stepped out of line, admin or not, to insult me, as well as everyone else. You in fact made that comment on Lugnet before I even posted on classic-castle, and yet you refuse to see the absolutely disgusting thing you did, to insult us. You had no right to, under any circumstance. And then not to even contact me about it, but just to lock and ban me? Could you give an explanation to that, Troy?

So, as I said before and will keep saying, be patient and this situation will resolve itself.

Troy

Yes it will, but not by mad censorship and blind insults.

[JINZONINGEN73]

It is negativitly like this that lead to my initial post in the first place. It does nothing to help the situation, it actually hinders it. Kevin could be diligently working every waking moment to get the site back up,

But we wouldn't know. His statement on the blank, white page sounds most final.

and how do you think such attacks are going to make him feel? Like it is not worth the effort, that is for sure.

But we wouldn't know. His statement on the blank, white page sounds most final.

So, as I said before and will keep saying, be patient and this situation will resolve itself.

Like it did with zerostuds, or the unanswered emails people send throughout the years?

If this had come out of the blue, what you're saying would be correct.

But it's not the first time.

Know how the drama could be avoided?

Instead of, "Brickshelf has discontinued operation. We apologize for any inconvenience.", a most final sounding "Seeya!" kind of thing, how about... and I know this is pretty darn abstract stuff, "Working on it. -Kevin"

See what I did there? I just saved a ton of people migrating to the 4 corners of the internet, prevented people who think years of their life have been trashed, AND generally left only the most panicky of people in a panic.

I HAVE more information than I have stated publicly, and I know for certain that the images have not been lost.

We all know that too. But where do you fit in to all this?

Now that I'm thinkin' about it, what is so dire that you can't speak of it?

Did the site go kablooey / get moved and Kevin's working on it? So what. We have patience.

Did he run out of money? So what? We have money.

Did he have no time? So what?We have volunteers.

Beyond that... the only other reasons are dark ones (that I can think of anyway).

Selling the site, disinterested in the site like he was with zerostuds, etc... in the absence of communicating with the community, all we have to fall back on is the way we know he's treated things in the past.

So really, what's with this "I have a secret! neener neener!" stuff you're pulling?

if it's such a simple, mundane, no big deal sort of thing, cough it up already.

Yes, he created one of the most beautiful things I've ever seen on the internet.

No, he is not a good communicator.

Yes, he's simply, suddenly "ditched" sites in the past.

You HAVE to realize that one is not a "whiney vulture" to lament it's sudden closing.

And I'm rather offended that you started the incivility by calling us names.

Hey you got your chocolate in my peanut butter!

look.gif If you guys didn't have those reese's commercials that wouldn't makes sense.

I actually used that reference the other day and nobody got it cry4.gif I can always count on you, Hinckley wubnew.gifHey you got your chocolate in my peanut butter!

Dear god, it's the 70's again, it's Saturday morning, the sun is just coming up, and I'm trying to get CBS tuned in clearer to watch the bugs Bunny show.

SEE ALSO: McDonalds, Jordache jeans, etc etc lol