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Star Wars Lego Petition


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#1 jr2d2

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Posted 10 March 2005 - 10:27 AM

I have started a petition at petitiononline.com. Basically it is about stopping re-hashes of Lego models. Its straight forward to put your name down. This is the link:

Petition

I would ask that anybody who cares will put their name down. Tell your friends and family, kids, wife, husband, the old lady next door, or who ever. I want as many name as possible, with the aim, if it is successful, to get Lego to have a look.

Hopefully this is the first time someone has done a petition on this, I did my research first to make sure it wasn't covered, please tell me if I am wrong.

If it dies on its feet so be it I tried.

Thanks for taking the time to listen and remember to leave a comment for Lego if you sign.

#2 snefroe

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Posted 10 March 2005 - 01:16 PM

dear collector,

i wish you all the best with your petition, but i strongly disagree with your action:
1) more/new units of sets reduces price and that may not be in the interest of collectors, but a majority of AFOLs will appreciate it

2) if rereleasing sets means improving the sets by adding new/more minifigs and impproving the model than i'm all for it; it's your choice to buy or not to buy; if this improves the financial situation of tlc in the process, then i don't have any problem with that either.

3) i would, on the other hand, encourage tlc to continue with the rerelease of old units. Personally, i would love a rerelease a B-wing, A-wing, AT-ST,... in fact, many buyers did not have the chance to buy the product a few years ago, when it first was released and will now have that chance. Remember, a galaxy explorer was in production for many years, sw-sets are very often gone after 1 or 1.5 year.

4) there has been some discussion about the rerelease of the Maersk boat (perhaps this is the reason of this petition). Jake explained to the community why tlc decided to do that and also indicated that tlc will buy the ship back from any collector who feels betrayed...

5) Some other "rehashed" models like the new Snowspeeder, Millenium Falcon, Slave 1, and X-wing are, in my view, excellent models and provide the buyer with new possibilities to build new models of there own; and are improvements to the older versions.  

therefore, i will not sign your petition, but again, i wish you success

#3 xwingyoda

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Posted 10 March 2005 - 03:11 PM

I really agree with snefroe1 here,

I really want reeditions/improvements of some old SW sets (and pirates, city): awing, bwing... (and I guess I am not the only one within the AFOLS)

Also, if novelty is like Vickings, great BUT if its like crappy Dinos, then *sick*

But I wish you luck on your difficult task, keep the pressure  ;)

#4 jr2d2

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Posted 10 March 2005 - 08:57 PM

Thanks for the comments, I have had similar responses elsewhere.

One of my points with re-hashes was to get it right in the first place before release, I agree alot of sets that have been re-hashed were right to be re-hashed and some need a re-hash.

Somehow I got a bit carried away by adding things about re-releases and prices because they are not the issue of my petition.

Any way I am in the process of getting something done about it but unfortunatly it cannot be edited.

I do beleive I make valid points, I just didn't express myself adequatly.

I found it hilarious I don't know about you

#5 jonfett

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Posted 10 March 2005 - 09:01 PM

Lego sell what sells best and for a lot of recent sets this has meant re-releases. Most of the time the consumer (which is mostly kids) wants to see popular sets and sets that they may not have got 5 years ago. Although these don't go down too well with AFOL we have to live with it I guess. Lego would not make such a money risking decision to release new sets which may not be popular.
I understand where your petition was coming from but I just can't see it happening :)

Jon.

#6 Bloody Jay

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Posted 10 March 2005 - 09:13 PM

I also like the redesigns.  Besides, online petitions never do anything.

#7 MattZitron

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Posted 13 March 2005 - 12:26 PM

I agree.  I like redesigns.  I'm gonna get the new Imperial inspection, even though I had the original Shuttle.

It gives us an opportunity to get things we missed!

#8 xwingyoda

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Posted 13 March 2005 - 12:30 PM

After viewing the trailer, having a second (or third ;) ) shuttle makes sense: the shuttle we see have a different top aerofoil ;)

#9 Vader

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Posted 13 March 2005 - 12:39 PM

I for one dont mind re-releases, what i didnt like was the fact that last year all we got was re-releases and the one set that was new was a poor one for the money it cost.

I just wish that they would give us a mixture of both new and re-releases each year instead of either one or the other :(  If they did this then everyone would be more happy.

#10 Jipay

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Posted 13 March 2005 - 04:04 PM

I'm not ready for another X-Wing  8-| I have 1 and it is ok.  Now that I have almost all the ships, I still think some kids deserve re re release since they never had a chance to get the ships and that without some specialized pieces you just can't built any.

#11 Bloody Jay

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Posted 13 March 2005 - 04:31 PM

After seeing the original trilogy again, I actually think we need a better shuttle.  The one in the movie is HUGE.

#12 xwingyoda

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Posted 13 March 2005 - 04:34 PM

Re-designs have some good: compare the 1st version of the speeder bikes to the latest...

Stop X-wings: I got 4 (2 old versions and 2 new versions) Its enough :-D  :P
However I wouldn't mind a modified version of the B-wing and A-wing!!!!

#13 Bloody Jay

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Posted 13 March 2005 - 04:55 PM

xwingyoda, on Mar 13 2005, 10:34 AM, said:

Re-designs have some good: compare the 1st version of the speeder bikes to the latest...

Stop X-wings: I got 4 (2 old versions and 2 new versions) Its enough :-D  :P
However I wouldn't mind a modified version of the B-wing and A-wing!!!!
We don't have one in the new colors, though. :/

And no flesh tone Luke either!

#14 xwingyoda

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Posted 13 March 2005 - 05:01 PM

Flesh tone Luke will be made sometimes :f)
They already did 2 versions of the X-Wing, but they should do the A-Wing and B-Wing in the new colors (they should put admiral Ackbar with the new version of the B-Wing, thatwould be so nice :f) )

#15 Jipay

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Posted 13 March 2005 - 05:03 PM

Bloody Jay, on Mar 13 2005, 03:31 PM, said:

After seeing the original trilogy again, I actually think we need a better shuttle.  The one in the movie is HUGE.
Making a shuttle having the size of the one in ROTJ is impossible. Honestly, you can't have it to scale. It has to be in scale with the Tie Fighters

#16 snefroe

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Posted 13 March 2005 - 06:13 PM

i really don't think we're gonna get a third x-wing. or a snowspeeder for that matter. all we can hope for is that tlc will rerelease other stuff, but in the mean time will come up with new craft from the classic movies. i expect quite a lot of new sets and remakes in the third and fourth quarter. let's just hope they're any good...

#17 Sweden

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Posted 14 March 2005 - 03:44 PM

jr2d2

Even though this is actually a lost cause since The LEGO Group doesn't care about the AFOL I'm giving you my compliments for starting this petition and I'm also giving you my compliments for starting this topic as the choices The LEGO Group has made about the Star Wars line is an "very" interesting subject to discuss.
I do understand where you're coming from and I do understand what you're trying to say and actually I do agree with you completely so I'll support your cause but not by signing your petition but by commenting on this whole issue with what I got to say about it and what my thoughts are about this interesting subject.

Most of us do know that LEGO "is being made for and aimed at children and younger teenagers" and that each and every set "is being made for a certain price point" as well as The LEGO Group doesn't give a rats a** about the AFOL but lets all just forget all that crap and have an very interesting debate about all this.
No matter how "we or The LEGO Group" for that matter do twist and turn it around there "ARE" AFOL and we "DO" make a certain income for The LEGO Group so why they don't care about the wishes or demands from the AFOL is nothing else but a complete mystery to me as they could make some big bucks on us all.

Okay, here goes people...

This IS an very interesting petition and this IS an very interesting subject and why you ask?

Well, what I find ever so boring is "all" of these basically none interesting and done to death topics about the ever so typical "What set or sets should I buy?, What set or sets is your favorite, You're the best! I'm the best! We're the best!" just to name a few of them is nothing else but "Banta Poodo" for a hungry flies.
That's why I'm not a frequent poster at all of these toy and model kit communities that I'm hanging around becuase I do prefer a damn good debate and discussion as well as a damn good arguing about something from time to time because it can be a real challenge for most people and it's damn good fun in the very end.

I find some of you guys and what you actually say incredibly hilarious indeed and why you ask?

Over the years I've seen so very many of you guys complaining about sets not being in scale with the mini figures, sets not being in scale with each other as well as sets being heavily juniorized and everything else and how you basically load The LEGO Group and how you whine and moan about all this from time to time.
Then a guy like jr2d2 or me come along and start a petition or topic about all this trying to make The LEGO Group listen to the AFOL or to have a fun and great as well as an interesting debate and discussion about all this but then all of a sudden you guys have forgotten what you whined and moaned about last week!?

Somebody please try and figure that one out will you? Please? Pretty please? Please?

Why do some of you guys bad mouth and give a guy like jr2d2 some serious s*** and crap???

I've seen that jr2d2 has made the very same petition and topic over at the Rebelscum and From Bricks to Bothans websites and when looking through all the answers he got some were down to earth rude and seriously insulting and to me it's a complete mystery as there's "no" valid reason or excuse for all of this.
What jr2d2 is trying to say is what some of you guys have whined and moaned about for years so why do you give him s*** and crap like the "Fiddler on the Roof that are nothing else but a true professional trouble maker" when there's absolutely "no" reason for it at all and one can wonder what boring life you guys live.

A note: This is not directed to the Eurobricks community but to the other ones.

The subject of Re-releases

A re-release is a re-release of an old set wether it's slightly modified or not and a re-hash "is" a completely new version of an subject of an old set and they "are" two completely different entities that people should divide from each other as they're "not" the same thing or at least I as well as some others seem to do so.
Re-releases are great for the ones that didn't get the sets the first time around and that simply can't afford all of the first original releases because of their incredibly high value on the "famous" collector's market but they shouldn't be made at the cost of completely new sets not being made for those who have all the sets.

The Re-released sets so far that actually are true (and pretty okay) Re-releases

It's a damn good thing that these two sets actually have brand new item numers because how else could one tell the original release and re-release apart and because this also stops suspicious dealers to try and ripp people off paying for the original release when they're actually getting the re-release in their hands.

7142 X-Wing Fighter

This X-Wing Fighter set is pretty okay and is in my opinnion from a model kit builder and collectors point of view an pretty okay set even if it could've been much better because it's proportions are somewhat better then the Re-hash and it's a good thing it's recognized as a re-release by it's brand new 7142 item number.

7152 T.I.E. Fighter and Y-Wing

The T.I.E. Fighter and Y-Wing set leaves a whole lot to be desired for from a model kit builder and collectors point of view especially when it it comes to the not so very good Y-Wing that definitely could've been much better and once again it's a good thing it's recognized as a re-release by it's brand new 7152 item number.

The masked Re-released sets so far that actually are nothing else but a big ripp off

A brand new item number and a brand new box along with a few modifications and a few figures more or even an additional set piece doesn't make it a brand new set but rather a smart and clever way to make people or completists buy a set getting yet another this and that and that's rather "common" these days.
The old MPC Star Wars model kits from the late 70's and early 80's are a very good example of this fact and as collector's of the old Kenner Toys and Hasbro Star Wars action figure lines do know this is also common within the toy industry ripping people off and The LEGO Group is of no exception at all as we've seen lately.

7262 T.I.E. Fighter and Y-Wing

The "new" modified version of Darth Vader's T.I.E. Fighter looks much better and correct but that's it for me at least as the Y-Wing is the same crap as the last two times but I guess it's great for those who didn't buy the set the first two times but it's still "somewhat" of a ripp off re-releasing it once again slightly different.

7263 T.I.E. Fighter

T.I.E. Fighter and Darth Vader with light up lightsaber. Ripp off big time.

7264 Imperial Inspection

The original release went for 399:- Swedish Kronor (around $57.00) and the masked re-release will go for 699:- Swedish Kronor (around $100.00) and what a true ripp off this is for a couple figures more and some really lame command station as well as cargo vehicle and all? this for 300:- Swedish Kronor ($43.00.) more.

10131 T.I.E. Fighter Collection

A brand new T.I.E Droid and the slightly modified versions of Darth Vader's and the standard T.I.E. Fighters is all we get in this ripp off set and this truly proves that The LEGO Group are trying to milk as much money out of the Star Wars license without doing something really "constructive" about it but doing re-releases.

The subject of Re-hashes

The concept of re-hashes of old sets could've been a great idea and decision made by The LEGO Group as it had a really great potential especially if they had decided to do them in scale with the mini figures and in scale with each other as well as doing them as accurate new special edition scale model sets for the AFOL.
Oh well, you can't ask The LEGO Group to make wise decisions at all so all we got was sets that looked like they weren't finished off but rather half done and the proportions weren't that much better at all then the original releases and the very incredible playability of the Millennium Falcon makes pieces fly here and there.

4500 Rebel Snowspeeder

I thought that the original release of the Snowspeeder was pretty good in the begining but I'll admitt that the re-hash looks slightly better but I don't see the release of the re-hash as something really necessary so I'd rather have seen something "completely new" as there's some stuff left to be done in LEGO parts.

4501 Mos Eisley Cantina

Where's the cantina? Just because of the very lack of a "decent" Mos Eisley Cantina I see this set as nothing but a big time ripp off and re-hash because even if there's an Mos Eisley alcove it's "not" worth mentioning there's the landspeeder that I'll admitt look good and the Dewback is basically nothing else but Dino parts.

4502 X-Wing Fighter

Is that an X-Wing Fighter? Not that the original release of 7140 was that great to begin with but this so called re-hash looks even worse because the proportions are still as off as they could ever be and why people think this is such a great set I simply do not understand because it just looks slapped together.

4504 Millennium Falcon

This could've been a great "special edition mini figure scale set" if done larger but what we got here was just an set with basically no playability as it's rather fragile and even if it's better then the original release of 7190 the proportions and larger details of the Millennium Falcon is still as way off as they ever could be.

Some final thoughts about Re-releases and Re-hashes

The re-releases are as many of you guys and I said great for the ones that didn't get the original releases when they first were around but as in the case of for example the "Imperial Inspection" set I just see it as a "big time ripp off" made by The LEGO Group trying to milk as much money out of the Star Wars license.
The re-hashes should've been done either as "special edition mini figure model sets" for the AFOL that can afford them or at least The LEGO Group could've finished off the sets instead of releasing these half done releases that in "my" very own humble opinnion "aren't" that great and fantastic as some people do claim.

I quote:

"Anything is possible. We'll look for the best sets - regardless of building system. There are so many awesome ideas and creations that still are yet to be brought to "LEGO life" but there are years of LEGO Star Wars sets yet to come."

End quote.

Yeah right, The LEGO Group should've done it right the first time and release new stuff instead.

Sure, one can just "quit" the whole whining and moaning thing and stop buying re-releases and re-hashes but when all that's released are re-releases with an additional set piece like the T.I.E. Droid in 10131 T.I.E. Fighter Collection and it isn't sold separately and you really want it so what else to do then to buy the set?
The very same thing goes if you're being a completist like I am and you want to build and collect all the Star Wars LEGO sets that The LEGO Group releases and rest assure that they're damn very well aware of this fact and that they'll take adventage of your weakness because that's how they DO make money on us all.

It's all about the money, di-di-dum-dum-di-di-di-dum, I don't think it's funny, I seem them fade away.

That was my 10 öre on the subject.

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#18 xwingyoda

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Posted 14 March 2005 - 03:49 PM

Thanks for your impressive thesis ;)

About re-hashes/re-releases,
do not forget one thing, the original SW sets are from 1999 (quite a long time ago, in a galaxy not so far away). Its normal to "fresh" them up (just compare the old version of the speeder bikes and the new version).
Also re-releasing nearly untouched sets (imperial shuttle, ties...) is good because it gives a chance for AFOLS to get theses sets (if they missed it) or to get new ones (army building).

Also, you write about price rip-offs, don't forget that you are from Sweden where you have a VAT = 25% (so sets are definitly a lot more expensive, even coming from the Lego kingdom).

#19 Sweden

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Posted 14 March 2005 - 04:52 PM

xwingyoda

You're most welcome. ;)

Regarding Re-releases and Re-hashes

Well, the Speeder Bikes are the only ones that has been "freshed up" so it's not that normal... |-D

I agree, the 10131 T.I.E. Fighter Collection set for example is great for army building.

Regarding the Swedish VAT of 25%

I do remember the Swedish VAT of 25% and to give you an example of what I mean with over priced sets I've made some calculations for the Ultimate Collector Series 10030 Imperial Star Destroyer set as an very good example of how incredibly expensive and way over priced LEGO Star Wars sets are here in Sweden.

Price in Sweden in Swedish Kronor 3390:- = Around $485.00

VAT of 25% in Swedish Kronor 847.50 = Around $122.00

Price in Swedish Kronor without VAT of 25% added 2542.50 = Around $364.00

Price in the US in US Dollar $299.00 = Around 2093:- Swedish Kronor

And still there's a very huge price difference of 449.50 Swedish Kronor = Around $65.00

Sweden - The One... And Only.

#20 xwingyoda

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Posted 14 March 2005 - 05:01 PM

Sweden,

You have to admit that re-released sets (like the Falcon, Snowspeeder and X-Wing) have much better design & conception, even if perfection is not reached.

Also, sets like the re-edition of the Shuttle are great for minifigs (even though the pilot is missing).

My last point will be a piece of advice: do not buy Legos in Sweeden :-D

#21 Sweden

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Posted 14 March 2005 - 05:31 PM

xwingyoda

Yeah, the 4500 Rebel Snowspeeder is slightly better but the harpoon feature is stupid. Score: 4,5 out of 5.

Yeah, the 7130 (Rebel) Snowspeeder is good. Score: 4 out of 5.

Yeah, the 4504 Millennium Falcon is better BUT far from what it could be. Score: 3 out of 5.

Yeah, the 7190 Millennium Falcon is MUCH worse. Looks like a Bloody waffel iron. Score: -5 out of 5.

Yeah, the 4502 X-Wing Fighter is... So, so. Score: 3 out of 5.

What they got wrong with 7140 they got right with 4502 but what they got right with 7140 they got wrong with 4502. *wacko*

Yeah, the 7140 X-Wing Fighter is okay. Score: 3 out of 5.

Imperial Inspection: Maybe the Pilot went to the mens room... *sick*

Yeah, do NOT buy LEGO in "Sweden."

By the way... You said the forbidden word...

*Laughs* ;)

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#22 xwingyoda

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Posted 14 March 2005 - 05:37 PM

Sweden,

I do agree with you exhaustive set analysis even if you were a little harsh on:
- New Millennium Falcon
- New X-Wing Fighter
Pardon me, I am currently at work and I do not know by heart the set numbers (and lazy to check it out :-D )

By the way,

:$ Oh... did I say the forbidden word?..... :-D

#23 Sweden

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Posted 14 March 2005 - 05:49 PM

xwingyoda

Okay, okay, okay... Calm down buddy! I stand correct. ;)

4504 Millennium Falcon. Score: 3,5 out of 5. But that's as far as I'm willing to go.

4502 X-Wing Fighter. Score: 2,5 out of 5. Had to take points from somewhere...

Okay, okay, okay... Calm and easy now! Score: 3,5 out of 5. *Laughs* ;)

I've got them all memorized... *wacko*

You said LEGO(s)... (I can't take that word in my mouth or the guys will hang me...) ;)

*Laughs*

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#24 xwingyoda

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Posted 14 March 2005 - 05:59 PM

Sweden,

I do agree for the 4502 X-Wing Fighter +0.5 point though  ;) (for the proportion!!!)
I also do agree for the 4504 Millennium Falcon!!!

See, no need for memorization, just a good old cut & paste ;)

For the use of the forbidden word....I stand corrected and sincerely appologise :-D

*Laughs* (don't you love those cuts & pastes :-D )

#25 Sweden

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Posted 17 March 2005 - 12:59 AM

xwingyoda

You know, I do just "love" the concept of the LEGO Star Wars line as I used to build stuff with all of these LEGO "parts" as a child but after discovering and seeing what can be done and made out of LEGO "parts" for the past 6 years I do know for sure that the LEGO Star Wars line could've been so much better indeed.

That's the main reason to why I'm so passionate about this whole issue of scale and accuracy regarding the Star Wars sets even though I know that they're being made for and aimed at children and younger teenagers and that they're made for a certain price point so this cathegory of customers can afford them.

As I've said so very many times before there's a very large AFOL community that are responsible for a very large chunk of the income for The LEGO Group and that can afford to buy more expensive sets and as The LEGO Group has "tried?" to reach this group then why don't they go all the way when it's big bucks in it?

I know for sure that I'm not alone having this opinnion even though people say I'm wrong when I make a post about it trying to have a great and intelligent conversation with you guys about the possibilities of this great concept and I truly think it's very sad that The LEGO Group doesn't see its very true potential.

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