Kraft Velveeta Canadian Lego Offer sets

[Stuart9]

Hi,just joined,so forgive me if I make any mistakes posting.

I have a question for the experts here.

The box I have just found offers a 57 piece Lego set for $1.00.

This box is as title and is labelled Montreal,Que and presumably the offer is in Canadian dollars not U.S.

I cannot find any information for this,only the American sets which have at least 74 pieces.

The print reads ( all capitals except Building Toy ):

Start a collection today : Lego open O logo : building toy : 57-piece set : offered for the : first time at only : $1.00 : see inside : for details + picture of basic figure made from 2 x4's.

Hopefully you understand all that,posted as it reads from top to bottom.

Can anyone help with information about said item?

[CopMike]

Hi and welcome to Eurobricks!

I've seen your threads over at BL:

http://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=782917

http://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=781405

That's interesting history to learn. The one you want in here is LEGO Historian which I'm sure will sving by any minute now ;-)!

[LEGO Historian]

Hehehe... it took me a while to compile the images....

Welcome to Eurobricks Stuart9!!!

OK, I looked at the Bricklink images, and that is indeed the Canadian Kraft Velveeta box promotion for LEGO.

Here are 2 variations on the 2 versions of the USA Kraft Velveeta box....

The upper box is from the USA 1968-69 and 1969-70 Kraft Velveeta promotion set. The lower box is from the USA 1971 Kraft Velveeta promotion set.

The 1968-70 sets #1 for the USA had 74 pieces. However, Canadian LEGO sets of that era usually had either a smaller piece count at the Canadian dollar price, or the same piece count at a higher Canadian dollar price.

Since the Canadian Kraft Velveeta set also is for $1.00, then the Canadian Kraft Velveeta set would naturally have a smaller piece count... hence 57 pieces for set #1 versus 74 pieces for the USA set #1. And the model on the Canadian #1 Velveeta box matches one of the images (but in a different color arrangement) on the USA #1 model.

I don't have a Canadian Samsonite Kraft Velveeta mini-catalog image... but here are the USA ones....

1968-69.... (with set #7)...

1969-70.... (without set #7)...

1971 Kraft Velveeta mini-catalog (with new Mini-Wheel sets). The #1 set (74 pieces) in the 1968-69 and 1969-70 brochure became the #6 (77 pieces) set in the 1971 brochure (similar models)...

All of these sets were mail order sets, and found in plain brown cardboard shipping boxes. Here is an example of one of these sets with the shipping box and instructions/brochures inside...

If anyone has the Canadian versions of any of these catalogs, I would love to see a scan of these. So far the Canadian versions of these mini-catalogs has not shown up. A Canadian version of these Kraft promotions would likely have many of the same sets.... but either with fewer part counts, or in the case of a model set... at a higher price in Canadian dollars.

All images and information from my 2800 page Unofficial LEGO Sets/Parts Collectors Guide, Chapter 17 - LEGO Promotional Sets (1955-1999).

Edited January 5, 2014 by LEGO Historian

[Stuart9]

Thank you for such a prompt response to my request.

The information is very informative,but as is usual with me,it has made me want to search for the Canadian versions.

I appreciate the time you have taken,and will let you know if I can find anything that may be of interest to you and others.

It would be nice to add something new to the huge catalogue of Lego items.

Stuart.

[LEGO Historian]

Thanks Stuart!

I'm going to contact my French-Canadian LEGO friend Francois-Xavier... and show him your images, and ask him if he's seen that Kraft promotion in Canada...

USA and Canada had the same LEGO licensee when sales first started here in (1961) the USA and (1962) Canada. That licensee was Samsonite... since TLG was still too small of a company to deal with the large North American market. Note: even your Britain, as well as Ireland and Australia, had a licensee called the Courtauld's Corp., a UK chemical/textile maker that started British LEGO Ltd. of Wrexham Wales.

Here is a copy of the front of the first (1961) USA LEGO Catalog...

And here is the 1962 Canadian catalog front... notice how the prices for the same sets are higher than for the USA...

Images from my Unofficial LEGO Sets/Parts Collectors Guide - Chapter 61 - Early LEGO Catalogs.

[Stuart9]

Thanks,nice images.

It does demonstrate what you were saying about same sets but higher dollar prices because of currency differences.

Would be interesting though to find info on what appears to be a different set to the American one,not listed,offered to the Canadians.

Different,in that it has a different piece count.

Look forward to hearing about anything you find.

Cheers.

Stuart.

Sorry just remembered that I posted pictures of the box ends in a later posting attached to the string.

I don't know if you noticed these,they clearly said Montreal,Que.

[LEGO Historian]

All of the regular Canadian basic and model sets have the same parts count as USA or European sets, whichever is an applicable comparison.

However when you compare exact price sets, such as 1960s spare parts packs, which are 50 cents in USA and in Canada, then you find piece count differences.

Here are the spare parts packs available in the 1960s in the USA, along with their parts count...

And here is the Canadian list of spare parts packs... almost always with a lower part count...

Most all other LEGO sets of USA/Canada are part count based (such as a model set)... and would always have the same parts count. But besides spare parts packs... this Kraft $1.00 promotional set is another one that has this part count difference.

I've checked over 100 other LEGO sets common to both USA and Canada, and they contain the same parts... although the packaging will vary.

Edited January 8, 2014 by LEGO Historian

[Stuart9]

Thanks again.

It's great to see info like this where you can clearly see similarities and differences in offers.

You can even see the different images of the cent for the States and Canada.

I wish they were these prices now,I might buy a few sets.

The part count seems even more interesting now.

Part of me wants this to be something not noted before and the rest hopes I can learn more from your friend.

[Stuart9]

Can I ask you about some other boxes whilst we are in this subject area.

I have two 700/3A boxes.

The first lid has the boy ( left ) and the girl ( right ) looking at an early form of train station on the outside.

This has a different girl ( left ) and different boy ( right ) looking down on a street scene with a taxi building against the boy,along with pictures of lego items to the right of this image on the underside of the lid.

The second has the same picture on the outside of the lid.

This however has a third different girl ( left ) and different boy ( right ),petrol station under the boys arm on the underside,same list of parts to the right.

The other difference is that this has a list of patents under top edge of lid,headed : PATENTED AS FOLLOWS.

The two bases are identical on the outside.

Inside,one has extended edge folded down the side and extends and interlocks on the flat of the base.

Inside the second,the two long sides have it folding in but only reaches to the base of the side,does not extend onto the flat.

The short sides has it folded in only two thirds of the way down.

It then has a folded insert/inner base with cutout and what appears to be an access flap,possibly to pull up and extract contents.

I will try and post message and photo's on Bricklink when I can.

Can I ask if this is normal.

[LEGO Historian]

Hi Stuart9....

The difference between these 2 sets... both sold in the UK.... is timing....

The set with the yellow haired girl inside (with patents listed) and with the red/gold foil "MADE IN DENMARK" dates to 1960-62, when British LEGO Ltd. was still getting established (they started in 1960).... and were still importing basic sets and spare parts packs from Denmark. All the 700/0, 700/1, 700/3, 700/3a and 700/5 sets from Denmark for continental Europe (and for UK for 1960-62) had the blond haired girl on the inside box top. This image matches that of the continental European 810 Town Plan set.

The set with the brown haired girl inside (without patents or label) dated to 1962-65, after the Wrexham Wales LEGO plant was in full production... producing the British version of the LEGO sets (which didn't require a label mentioning where it originated from).

Here are the inside box tops to the....

Denmark produced 700/x basic sets (top image).

UK produced 700/x basic sets (middle image).

Denmark produced 3xx model sets (bottom image).

The inside of your box tops also match with the box top of the 810 Town Plan sets of continental Europe (left, Denmark produced), and Britain, Ireland, Australia (right, British LEGO Ltd. produced)....

One last thing.... the 700/0, 700/1, 700/3, 700/3A and 700/5 basic sets were produced in either continental Europe or Britain. There is no 700/2 set (it was discontinued in 1957), and the 700/4 and 700/6 sets were only ever produced for continental Europe (from Denmark), and therefore will NEVER be found with the inside box top with the dark haired girl.

Also, LEGO spare parts pack boxes for Britain had the same scenario... "MADE IN DENMARK" stamped (not foil) on the side of the box from 1960-62, and "MADE IN GREAT BRITAIN" stamped on the side from 1962-65.

Stuart9... do you have my LEGO DVD/download? It would come in very handy.....

Edited January 13, 2014 by LEGO Historian

[Stuart9]

Haven't got the download yet.

I think it's a must now,will have to leave it till next month as I've spent too much already this month.

Stuart

[LEGO Historian]

One last thing Stuart9.... the British LEGO Ltd. versions of the 700/x boxes has an additional feature... those round white circles on the sides of the boxes. They are meant as a location for putting the set price. Denmark produced continental box versions are missing those.

Edited January 13, 2014 by LEGO Historian

[Stuart9]

One thing you haven't mentioned is the list of patents across the world on the inside upper edge of the Denmark image lid only.

I take it that this was the norm for this version.

The other thing is the insert,is this genuine Lego packaging.

Thanks for your help and hope your Canadian friend is having fun with the promotion item.

Stuart.

[Rook]

That is a serious trip! Wish LEGO had more promtional items like that nowdays.

[Stuart9]

Especially at those prices.

Always interested at offers outside of the U.K.

You didn't have the Internet back then,to keep up with limited sets etc.

There are obviously things out there that are Lego related,which are not yet documented.

More happy hunting.

Stuart

[LEGO Historian]

Stuart9, those Patents, are the itemized list of the LEGO patents across Europe (not UK). They are itemized by country, so that those same boxes can be used for all countries.

The UK boxes (produced in Wrexham Wales) didn't include that list, they didn't find a need to include patents for countries that their box would not be found in.

Also there is another variation on those UK basic set (and spare parts) boxes. Starting in late 1964 they discontinued the word "System" in yellow script on the outer box logo. It just said "LEGO" on a red background. This version was sold until 1966, when a new series of sets and parts packs were introduced in the UK.

And in the continental box style (made in Denmark), this style of boxes was introduced in 1960. The first boxes had blue set numbers on the sides of the box. Soon after their introduction, the writing was switched to yellow.

So here are some examples from continental Europe, with the early 1960 version on top, the rest all later....

[Stuart9]

Thank you,please let me know if you do hear anything about the Canadian Velveeta offer.

I'm sure I could think of many more questions but I've taken enough of your time,much appreciated.

[LEGO Historian]

Stuart9, I'm waiting to hear back from my Canadian friend.

But on a different topic....

http://www.bricklink...4587&nID=788717

You really do need to get my Unofficial LEGO Sets/Parts Collectors Guide....

Wouldn't you know it... just the right chapter you need is available on 1000steine as a sample chapter to answer your inquiries... "Chapter 48 - Printed and Painted LEGO Elements".....

http://www.1000stein...ter 48 Vol2.pdf

Bricklink seller Brasletty is more than happy to buy any "junk" that anyone has... he has a copy of my Guide!

All the printed bricks from 1955-57 come without LEGO logo on the studs, some of the earliest (1955 Mursten era) may come without a logo completely...

... and the lettering often come in many more colors that are listed on Bricklink...

Also... those 1x6 and 1x8 beams with cross supports underneath....

The 1x6 beams always have 2 cross supports. The 1x8 beams usually have 3 cross supports, such as these...

http://www.bricklink...asp?P=crssprt01

But for the 1955-57 early beams... the 1x8 bricks only have 2 cross supports! But you won't find those listed over there either....

Edited January 24, 2014 by LEGO Historian

[Lego Otaku]

While you're on printed bricks, have you looked at http://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=788717 ?? Someone seems to have a few including one (or more) in text color that isn't listed in catalog. You don't have to respond there if you're uncomfortable, just look at the picture there.

[LEGO Historian]

While you're on printed bricks, have you looked at http://www.bricklink...e.asp?ID=788717 ?? Someone seems to have a few including one (or more) in text color that isn't listed in catalog. You don't have to respond there if you're uncomfortable, just look at the picture there.

I was a bit uncomfortable earlier today... but I passed that kidney stone...

That was the reason for my previous post... same link...

I personally think that trying to itemize each and every color for the printed bricks is going to be much more difficult than anyone imaged... there probably are 1000 different ones... many yet to be discovered. Here are 2 Danish (Grocery) bricks... dark green and light green... is there a medium green?

Edited January 24, 2014 by LEGO Historian

[LEGO Historian]

My German LEGO collector friend Olaf has a very nice collection of these very old 1955-65 printed bricks on Flickr (which appear to be for sale?)....

1x8:

http://www.flickr.co...in/photostream/

1x6:

http://www.flickr.co...in/photostream/

Edited January 24, 2014 by LEGO Historian

[Doom2099]

Love seeing some of these old Lego offerings. The pictures and scans posted are all top quality! Thanks for sharing.

[62Bricks]

This item was just listed on eBay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Kraft-Lego-Special-Offer-Lego-Set-75-Pieces-/111266586828?hash=item19e80160cc

Judging from the models visible in the instruction sheet, this would seem to be set #1 in the series, listed at 74 pieces. This eBay seller says there are 75 pieces present, so it may be complete. It also has the original packing box from Kraft.

[LEGO Historian]

Thanks 62bricks... I sent my Samsonite collector friends on the scent of that auction....

As for set part counts... those old 1960s sets were all hand packed... so counts are just an official number.... not an absolute!

Also based on the Champagne color of the trans-clear bricks... those are likely (warped) Cellulose Acetate bricks... rather than the newer Polycarbonate... which dating to circa 1968-70 is rather late for CA in trans-clear.

Edited January 28, 2014 by LEGO Historian

[Stuart9]

Thanks everyone,I've been busy so only just read your posts.

I've already been communicating with Olaf,another member gave me the details,however I'm a little short on funds at present.

Having done a little research,I've also come to the conclusion that these printed bricks are a massive area of study for those prepared to undertake the task.

I hadn't seen the Kraft set mentioned but had spotted another and an American Lego offer cheese box ($2 offer).

As for the "junk",I'm happy to buy more myself,found that funny and the offer from Brasletty.

I will invest in your download before long as I keep getting items that Bricklink does not have or doesn't detail.

Latest item I need to check is a "set" sold as 020,the box top/bottom and tray in excellent condition.

The contents however are mixed condition including some breakages,don't know if original.

I really am getting obsessed with these early Lego items.

All I need is more money or people to send me free,the early junk they don't want. (Worth a try).