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Adventures of Johnny Thunder III


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#26 Athos

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Posted 01 June 2005 - 06:29 AM

I finally finished the writing part of the story, and lets just say you're not quite halfway done reading yet...  :() As such, so as to not drag this out forever, I've added another update for you all.

http://www.brickshel...ies/kotg049.jpg

http://www.brickshel...ies/kotg050.jpg

http://www.brickshel...ies/kotg051.jpg

http://www.brickshel...ies/kotg052.jpg

http://www.brickshel...ies/kotg999.jpg

The whole gypsy-nominal story:

http://www.brickshel...ry.cgi?f=116716

Hope you like it,
Steve

#27 Mister Phes

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Posted 01 June 2005 - 01:05 PM

Who is this Cooke character?  I'm only familiar with the Orient Expedition characters.  Obviously Johnny and Pippin and there, but no Cooke...


Johnny Thunder Character Bio's from official site

#28 Athos

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Posted 01 June 2005 - 06:50 PM

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Who is this Cooke character? I'm only familiar with the Orient Expedition characters. Obviously Johnny and Pippin and there, but no Cooke...

Correct you are. I felt I was too limited with only the official characters, so I started to create ones of my own. There will be more original characters as my stories go on.

Steve

#29 Mister Phes

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Posted 01 June 2005 - 07:26 PM

I can see a lot of time and effort has been put into making this.  A wonderful array of pieces has been selected, which quite impressive.

However, I have questions...

Where did Cooke learn to fight like that? 4 on to 1 and all he loses is his walking stick.
Which brings me to the next question: Why is he carrying a walking stick?  Does he have a limp or something?
How did the gypsies know Cooke's name and that he had a room in the library?

And when Mr. Cooke is telling the story, shouldn't it be in first person?  So instead of writing "Mr.Cooke began walking back into town..." it would be "I began walking back into town..."

"Postulated" is used in the wrong context as it bascially means:
"To make claim for/demand"


I have heaps more questions, but that'll do for now...

#30 Bloody Jay

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Posted 01 June 2005 - 07:47 PM

mister_phes, on Jun 1 2005, 08:05 AM, said:

Who is this Cooke character?  I'm only familiar with the Orient Expedition characters.  Obviously Johnny and Pippin and there, but no Cooke...


Johnny Thunder Character Bio's from official site
Did you notice that every villain's bio except Sam Sinister's is prefaced by a line including 'greedy and ruthless'?  Just thought that was kind of funny.

#31 Mister Phes

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Posted 01 June 2005 - 07:51 PM

No, I didn't read them all.  It seemed to repetitive to me.

#32 Athos

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Posted 02 June 2005 - 06:10 AM

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However, I have questions...

Well I will try to address them...

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Where did Cooke learn to fight like that? 4 on to 1 and all he loses is his walking stick.

I don't really know. It kind of adds to his mystique, I think. Maybe he went to a boarding school in a rough neighborhood?

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Which brings me to the next question: Why is he carrying a walking stick? Does he have a limp or something?

He thinks it makes him look dashing and elegant. Walking sticks were quite the fashion for gentlement 40 years before the 1930s.

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How did the gypsies know Cooke's name and that he had a room in the library?

Oh, they have their sources. A gypsy "deepthroat" if you will...

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And when Mr. Cooke is telling the story, shouldn't it be in first person? So instead of writing "Mr.Cooke began walking back into town..." it would be "I began walking back into town..."

I had strongly considered doing it that way, and would have except for three things. (1) I don't think I could write it well, I'm not comfortable or experienced at first person narration, (2) Initially when I started writing, I intended to include scenes containing information that Cooke would not necessarily be privy to, which would not have fit the first person style, (3) The book that inspired this story was done in a similar way... someone telling a story about themselves in a third person format. I did try to indicate the narrative by allowing Cooke to start telling the story in first person...

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"Postulated" is used in the wrong context as it bascially means:
"To make claim for/demand"

Oops. My mistake. Could you cite me to a specific scene?

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I have heaps more questions, but that'll do for now...

Keep them coming. I like to get the feedback so I can make the next one better.

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Did you notice that every villain's bio except Sam Sinister's is prefaced by a line including 'greedy and ruthless'? Just thought that was kind of funny.

Maybe Mr. Sinister is ruthless? Or maybe not greedy? Though I'd always thought of him as both. The real sleezy villain, coupled with the (relatively) more honorable Baron.

Steve

#33 Mister Phes

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Posted 02 June 2005 - 08:30 AM

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Where did Cooke learn to fight like that? 4 on to 1 and all he loses is his walking stick.

I don't really know. It kind of adds to his mystique, I think. Maybe he went to a boarding school in a rough neighborhood?

Hmmm... In the interest of developing Mr.Cookes character you might like to imply that in one of the scenes.  Maybe Johnny asks him at some point "Crikey Mate!  Where did ya learn to fight like that" to the response "I grew up in a rough neighbourhood.  I've had a lot of practice." or something like that to let the audience know he's not some invincible freak of nature.  Not sure that's a mystery that helps build the character left unexplained.


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Which brings me to the next question: Why is he carrying a walking stick? Does he have a limp or something?

He thinks it makes him look dashing and elegant. Walking sticks were quite the fashion for gentlement 40 years before the 1930s.

You're thinking of a "cane" being a fashion accessory.  The "walking stick" being a walking aid someone with difficult walking uses.


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How did the gypsies know Cooke's name and that he had a room in the library?

Oh, they have their sources. A gypsy "deepthroat" if you will...

Upon arriving at the gypsy's camp, wouldn't Cooke immediately want to know how they knew who he was and where to find him?  Their response, something like "Ha!  We are gypsies!  We have eyes and ears everywhere..."


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"Postulated" is used in the wrong context as it bascially means:
"To make claim for/demand"

Oops. My mistake. Could you cite me to a specific scene?

Scene 22: "Last meal"? postulated the thug.


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And when Mr. Cooke is telling the story, shouldn't it be in first person? So instead of writing "Mr.Cooke began walking back into town..." it would be "I began walking back into town..."

I had strongly considered doing it that way, and would have except for three things. (1) I don't think I could write it well, I'm not comfortable or experienced at first person narration, (2) Initially when I started writing, I intended to include scenes containing information that Cooke would not necessarily be privy to, which would not have fit the first person style, (3) The book that inspired this story was done in a similar way... someone telling a story about themselves in a third person format. I did try to indicate the narrative by allowing Cooke to start telling the story in first person...

How could Cooke retell information he wan't privvy to?  Afterall, its Cooke relaying the story to others, so regardless of whether its written in 1st person or 3rd you're still going to encounter that issue, unless, there are subsequent story tellers contributing.  However, this isn't a major thing.  A matter of personal perference.  But if you want more experience writing in 1st time, they only way you're going to get that is writing in 1st person.  Being in the modern age, you can have mutliple versions of the same story in different files in which you can experiment.  So you can copy what you've written into another file, rewrite it in first person and see how it works.  Then keep rewriting until it does work.  But if it never works, you still have the original so nothing lost and you've gained some experience writing in first person.

More questions do I have.  However, I'd like to read more of the story before I ask, as these questions may be asked later on.

#34 Athos

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Posted 03 June 2005 - 04:11 AM

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... to let the audience know he's not some invincible freak of nature. Not sure that's a mystery that helps build the character left unexplained.

Maybe it will be revealed in a future story... Or maybe he is an invincible freak of nature?  Only time will tell... ;)

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Upon arriving at the gypsy's camp, wouldn't Cooke immediately want to know how they knew who he was and where to find him? Their response, something like "Ha! We are gypsies! We have eyes and ears everywhere..."

I kind of assumed that was evident from the story. Guess that is a good lesson for me, that I shouldn't assume the same things are evident to the reader, that are to me who designed the story... Or maybe it was their crystal ball? They are gypsies after all... :)

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Scene 22: "Last meal"? postulated the thug.

Well perhaps it wasn't the best word I could have used, but the Oxford English Dictionary gives "To assume the possibility of (some construction or operation)," as a definition for postulate. And dictionary.com similarly defines postulate as "To assume or assert the truth, reality, or necessity of, especially as a basis of an argument." So it does work... glad I wasn't going nuts.  :-D

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You're thinking of a "cane" being a fashion accessory. The "walking stick" being a walking aid someone with difficult walking uses.

When I think of a cane, I think of the hooked things old people use to walk. When I think of a walking stick, I think of something a gentleman would carry or something an outdoorsman would carry on a hike. I meant the latter. Seems to me we're just making semantic differences... and don't make me go all OED on your a** again, 'cause I'm not afraid to... so you'd better just watch yourself... ;)

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...Afterall, its Cooke relaying the story to others, so regardless of whether its written in 1st person or 3rd you're still going to encounter that issue... et al

Well at this point, since the writing is already all done, and more because I am so sick of gypsies  :D, I'm not going to go back and redo it. At least not just yet. Thanks for the advice, though. I think I'll try the first person, if I ever do a similar story... which I might just do.

Thanks for the suggestions, I really appreciate it. And am glad someone is reading them,
Steve

#35 Mister Phes

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Posted 03 June 2005 - 05:08 PM

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Upon arriving at the gypsy's camp, wouldn't Cooke immediately want to know how they knew who he was and where to find him? Their response, something like "Ha! We are gypsies! We have eyes and ears everywhere..."

I kind of assumed that was evident from the story. Guess that is a good lesson for me, that I shouldn't assume the same things are evident to the reader, that are to me who designed the story... Or maybe it was their crystal ball? They are gypsies after all... :)

One of the fundamental important things to writing a story is never assume the reader can work things out for themself.  You must remember the reader doesn't know the story or characters as well as you do, and they often need explainations so they understand what's going on  You can get away with  more in film and TV due to the visual communication techniques - but that leads to plot holes and continuity issues in many movies. I could not assume Cooke knew how these particular gypsies operated, so he could assume that he knew how they found him.


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Scene 22: "Last meal"? postulated the thug.

Well perhaps it wasn't the best word I could have used, but the Oxford English Dictionary gives "To assume the possibility of (some construction or operation)," as a definition for postulate. And dictionary.com similarly defines postulate as "To assume or assert the truth, reality, or necessity of, especially as a basis of an argument." So it does work... glad I wasn't going nuts.  :-D

I'd say it roughly works.  Not the best choice of word there.



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You're thinking of a "cane" being a fashion accessory. The "walking stick" being a walking aid someone with difficult walking uses.

When I think of a cane, I think of the hooked things old people use to walk. When I think of a walking stick, I think of something a gentleman would carry or something an outdoorsman would carry on a hike. I meant the latter. Seems to me we're just making semantic differences... and don't make me go all OED on your a** again, 'cause I'm not afraid to... so you'd better just watch yourself... ;)

They are indeed the same thing.  But cane sounds more elegant.  Just watch a movie where a gentlemen or wealthy person carries a cane...  Its always referred to as a cane...  But that's your choice to use walking stick...  Stick with it by all means...





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Well at this point, since the writing is already all done, and more because I am so sick of gypsies  :D, I'm not going to go back and redo it. At least not just yet. Thanks for the advice, though. I think I'll try the first person, if I ever do a similar story... which I might just do.

If you're not going to be revising or editing your story further there isn't really much point me analysing bit by bit.  Oh well...

#36 Bloody Jay

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Posted 03 June 2005 - 07:24 PM

Phes - it's his story, and this is not a grammar or proper English forum.  Don't harass him.

#37 Athos

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Posted 04 June 2005 - 03:55 AM

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If you're not going to be revising or editing your story further there isn't really much point me analysing bit by bit. Oh well...

While I probably won't be reworking this one, I will be writing new stories, so all the input is appreciated.

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Phes - it's his story, and this is not a grammar or proper English forum. Don't harass him.

He's not harassing me. I can hold my own... in a discussion that is ;)

Steve

#38 Athos

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Posted 04 June 2005 - 05:31 AM

Well since I am looking for any excuse not to read my bar study materials tonight, I thought I'd give you all another update. Here you go:

http://www.brickshel...ies/kotg053.jpg

http://www.brickshel...ies/kotg054.jpg

http://www.brickshel...ies/kotg055.jpg

http://www.brickshel...ies/kotg056.jpg

http://www.brickshel...ies/kotg999.jpg

The whole gypsy-normas story:

http://www.brickshel...ry.cgi?f=116716

Hope you like it,
Steve

#39 Mister Phes

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Posted 04 June 2005 - 09:03 AM

Bloody Jay, on Jun 4 2005, 05:24 AM, said:

Phes - it's his story, and this is not a grammar or proper English forum.  Don't harass him.
Harassing him?  He asked for feedback and he got it.  Then he asked for some more and he got that too.

People don't improve their skills by someone telling them how great their work is.  Constructive criticism is invaluable feedback for improving.  But, its up to the individual to how they make (or not) use of this feedback    Athos seems competent enough to decide what's uselful and what's useless.

Its not like I've outrihgt said his work is bad, I've just made note of certain areas I was unsure of.  Someone else would undoubtedbly find different things.  However, I'm the only one here who has made an effort to read his story and analyse it to the point of providing feedback.  That demonstrates I actually read the story and didn't just skim over it.  Its a good story with a couple of areas I needed clarifying.

I sure wish I had someone to do that again for my written work.

#40 Athos

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Posted 08 June 2005 - 01:06 AM

Hello all,

Bowing to pressure from the classic-castle readers, I thought I'd make today a double update:

http://www.brickshel...ies/kotg057.jpg

http://www.brickshel...ies/kotg058.jpg

http://www.brickshel...ies/kotg059.jpg

http://www.brickshel...ies/kotg060.jpg

http://www.brickshel...ies/kotg061.jpg

http://www.brickshel...ies/kotg062.jpg

http://www.brickshel...ies/kotg063.jpg

http://www.brickshel...ies/kotg064.jpg

http://www.brickshel...ies/kotg999.jpg

The whole gypsy-sational story:

http://www.brickshel...ry.cgi?f=116716

Steve, who hopes you like it...

#41 Mister Phes

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Posted 08 June 2005 - 02:27 PM

Good work on the update Athos!

How do you write these stories?  Do you write it all first, then make scenes at particular points of the story?  Or do you write a scene then make design MOCs corresponding to them?

#42 Athos

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Posted 08 June 2005 - 03:44 PM

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Good work on the update Athos!

Thanks. :D

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How do you write these stories? Do you write it all first, then make scenes at particular points of the story? Or do you write a scene then make design MOCs corresponding to them?

I pretty much write them as I post them. I get a general outline in my head and then build most of the scenes from the outline. For this one my outline was too general, and I had some trouble sorting out how to resolve the story, which is why it turned out to be so long.

A lot of times, I will take a bunch of pictures of the characters in the scenes. Then I will write the story out. Sometimes, the story doesn't break down the way I'd hoped it would, so I have to go back and take more pictures, or take out pictures I'd planned on using.

Steve

#43 Mister Phes

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Posted 08 June 2005 - 06:58 PM

I'm just wondering something...

Since this story is mostly about Cooke, is there any need to make it a Johnny Thunder story?  Johnny Thunder doesn't seem to have much to do with the main story.

For example...  If Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade was all about what happened to Marcus Brody when he was young, then it wouldn't really be an Indiana Jones movie.  It would be a spinoff, kind of like The Scorpion King is to The Mummy Movies...

#44 Athos

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Posted 08 June 2005 - 10:22 PM

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I'm just wondering something...

Since this story is mostly about Cooke, is there any need to make it a Johnny Thunder story? Johnny Thunder doesn't seem to have much to do with the main story.

For example... If Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade was all about what happened to Marcus Brody when he was young, then it wouldn't really be an Indiana Jones movie. It would be a spinoff, kind of like The Scorpion King is to The Mummy Movies...

Ah. But to make a distinction between your examples and my story (as a good law student is apt to do), the Mummy never made an appearance in the Scorpion King. Similarly, presumably a young Marcus Brody adventure would not have Indy appearing in it because he would be too young. Here, however, Johnny Thunder does make an appearance.

Futher, this story is a part of "The Adventures of Johnny Thunder" series of stories, if not an "adventure of Johnny Thunder." There is a fine distinction to be made here. The former fully capitalized name refers to the series, while the other is merely a description of events that happened to be adventurous and involve JT.

In reality, I just liked having all the titles follow the format:

Title = "The Adventures of Johnny Thunder:"
Subtitle = "Johnny Thunder and..."

And as you will see, the story really does primarily involve Johnny Thunder interacting with the gypsy king.

Steve, who wonders how a simple question could spark such a long post...

#45 Mister Phes

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Posted 08 June 2005 - 10:36 PM

When Phes gets involved posts get really really long...

As you haven't finished the story then it may be premature to say that it doesn't have much to do with Johnny Thunder.

I haven't read I or II yet either, so I have no idea how Cooke fits into The Johnny Thunder continuity as yet.

#46 Athos

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Posted 08 June 2005 - 11:34 PM

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When Phes gets involved posts get really really long...

And when the lawyers (or soon to be) get involved its even worse.

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As you haven't finished the story then it may be premature to say that it doesn't have much to do with Johnny Thunder.

You probably won't think it does when you are finished either. What I plan to do it let each supporting character have a story they are the main focus of. Next up: Pippin.

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I haven't read I or II yet either, so I have no idea how Cooke fits into The Johnny Thunder continuity as yet.

He is a geography professor at the same school as JT. He is kind of a mentor to JT. I added him so the stories would have more character variety, than just the same old three (JT, Pippin and Kilroy) everytime.

Steve

#47 Mister Phes

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Posted 09 June 2005 - 09:19 AM

I was viewing the adventures like a movie...  But it seems more like a series, kinda like Lost actually, with all these flash backs.

#48 Athos

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Posted 10 June 2005 - 12:59 AM

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I was viewing the adventures like a movie... But it seems more like a series, kinda like Lost actually, with all these flash backs.

Well it is depends on how you view them... if you sit down and read the whole story all at once, then it should be like a movie (like Indiana Jones). If you read them as I publish them, then its more like a TV serial (like lost), with each update being an episode. So if you were to go back and read the first two all in one sitting it'd be like a non-moving movie. Or perhaps comic book would be a better analogy?

Steve

#49 Bloody Jay

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Posted 10 June 2005 - 01:05 AM

mister_phes, on Jun 9 2005, 04:19 AM, said:

I was viewing the adventures like a movie...  But it seems more like a series, kinda like Lost actually, with all these flash backs.
I love that show.

#50 Mister Phes

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Posted 10 June 2005 - 10:53 AM

Athos, on Jun 10 2005, 10:59 AM, said:

If you read them as I publish them, then its more like a TV serial (like lost), with each update being an episode.

How many episodes are you planning to make?  Or are you going to continue making them until you run out of ideas?




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