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WIP: Carrack


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38 replies to this topic  – Started by kabel , Feb 17 2013 05:32 PM

#1 kabel

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 05:32 PM

149D
Finished ship on page 2 [click image]
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Hey there,
this is actually a project for the GoH forum, but as I would like some feedback from the ship building community, I'm starting the wip topic here.
Anyway, I'm currently building a carrack from around the last third of the 15th century. I'm more or less relying on the revell Santa Maria model, despite the fact that it is not really clear whether the Santa Maria was actually a carrack or a nao. Anyway, here are some wip shots and it'd be cool if you could give me some constructive feedback:

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#2 Fraunces

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 06:42 PM

Why don't you fill the bottom up with a lower deck for , example, rum stocking?

#3 Frank Brick Wright

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 07:07 PM

View Postkabel, on 17 February 2013 - 05:32 PM, said:

despite the fact that it is not really clear whether the Santa Maria was actually a carrack or a nao.

I wonder… This is perhaps because there is no difference between a carrack and a "nao" :wink: I wonder why they call these ships "naos" because in fact the portuguese word is nau, with an u. The word carrack comes, etymologically speaking, from the greek. The portuguese word comes from the prefix nau, which is associated with NAUtical issues, as in English :classic: They are the same, so don't worry about that.

Building one of these vessels is tough because there are few pictures and no plans from this time. They were usually VERY rounded (and I really mean, very), with a gigantic sheer and an overall rounded hull-shape. This is looking good so far, I'm looking forward to see the progress in this WIP! :thumbup:

Edited by Frank Brick Wright, 17 February 2013 - 07:08 PM.

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#4 kabel

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 07:08 PM

@fraunces: the lower deck contains hinges and supporting bricks. There actually isn't much room.

@frank: yeah, it's becoming really round, I've just realized that

btw, I made good progress today. I'm not 100% convinced yet, but its getting there:
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#5 Grimmbeard

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 07:16 PM

Looks good so far! :thumbup:
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#6 kabel

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 10:34 PM

thanks mate, what I was wondering is whether I should keep the triangular version of the stern or go for something more straight. Anyone an opinion on that?
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#7 Frank Brick Wright

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 11:15 PM

View Postkabel, on 18 February 2013 - 10:34 PM, said:

thanks mate, what I was wondering is whether I should keep the triangular version of the stern or go for something more straight. Anyone an opinion on that?

It is hard to express an opinion in this matter. You see, carracks and caravels, those earlier vessels, were basically built in an non technical way, so each one was very different and unique and had his specific characteristics. Ships' sizes and shapes varied a lot…

However, the stern strikes me as too triangular. Here, for instance, you have a very triangular stern, but then it is fairly taller and larger, so I don't think it is fitting :sceptic: I'd try something more like this, though the choice is always yours :thumbup:

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#8 Imperial Shipyards

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 12:30 PM

I don't know so much about these early day sailing ships. What you have so far is looking quite decent.

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#9 Captain Blackmoor

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 02:17 PM

As these ships were crudely built compared to the later Galleons it would be a nice addition to add extra hull-reinforcing wooden beams everywhere.
I would also recommend to use white ornaments for ships with expensive cargo and bare ships for bulk goods like timber and grain. Use a big majestic flag at the stern too.

You can also create a wheatered look or storm damage.

Carracks were built as warships too, in that case you could build fighting positions like they had on castles. Use decorative shields along with them and a lot of flags as these ships were seen as glorious building projects.

You could also look up the Dutch Batavia ship, a latter version of the Carrack/Galleon.

Hope this helps a bit, good luck on the ship! It looks great already. :thumbup:

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#10 kabel

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 09:23 PM

Hey guys,
thanks a lot for the encouraging feedback
@Frank: that helped a lot and I actually found a way to form the stern that now I'm pleased with:
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I also started some first basic rigging

@Perfectionist: well, with you guys dominating the realm of the 18th and 19th century, DC being the master of the 16/17 th century, I decided I'd go for the 14/15th century . Not so many have build there yet!

@CB: interesting information. I now put in the Mitgardian colors to make the ship more colorful as befits your suggestions.
Here is a shot from a another perspective:
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Of course a lot of the things are still at a rather preliminary stage. But I'm waiting for more bricks to arrive. More updates soon!
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#11 kabel

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 02:46 PM

update -
went to the pab wall and got lots of brown tiles, added shields and the front mast:

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#12 Grimmbeard

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 02:50 PM

Looking good :thumbup:
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#13 kabel

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 05:48 PM

Thanks man, I'm actually not quite so sure about the front mast. I seems a bit too large in diameter, but the prefrabricated mast don't really fit that well either.  What do you guys think about the orverall design, do you think 2 midsections is enough? A also tried three midsections but then it didn't look quite as rounded anymore.
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#14 Brig. Brick

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 04:17 AM

very good design, it's great see this very old type of sails ship!
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#15 Grimmbeard

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 02:40 PM

View Postkabel, on 18 March 2013 - 05:48 PM, said:

Thanks man, I'm actually not quite so sure about the front mast. I seems a bit too large in diameter, but the prefrabricated mast don't really fit that well either.  What do you guys think about the orverall design, do you think 2 midsections is enough? A also tried three midsections but then it didn't look quite as rounded anymore.

I agree the front mask is a little out of place and large. I'd like to see what this looks like with three midsections.
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#16 WilrickB

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 04:22 PM

Great ship! :thumbup:
I've try to make ships but I cant make really good one's
But I like to see ships from other people..

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#17 kabel

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 05:37 PM

@grimmbeard: unforutunately I didn't take pictures duing that stage, and now I'm content with two sections. I'm still not sure about the front mast, but these are the model and the drawing I'm mostly relying on, and you can see that the bow part does look a bit odd:
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So I'm not really sure how to solve the issue
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#18 Frank Brick Wright

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 05:51 PM

I think you are being a bit too demanding with yourself, because this is looking really nice :thumbup:

The thing here is this: these ships where built in the most non-standart way you can imagine. They could take almost every possible shape.

The mast does look good to me there, the shape is indeed "weird" but it was how they built ships back then.

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What I would suggest is to increase the forecastle. A mast that large in the bow would require a large castle, moreover large castles where very typical in that time. I wouldn't rely much in the 2nd image you posted, if you ask me.

This is looking great already, keep it up

A ship is floating in the harbour now,

The wind is hovering o'er the mountain's brow;

There is a path on the sea's azure floor,

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#19 Sebeus I

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 08:43 PM

This looks very good so far, judging from the last two pictures (of the creation) I'd say the shape is great, I wouldn't change anything about that, I'm looking forward to a finished stern castle :classic: .

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#20 ManInATopHat

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 06:05 PM

Looks great so far! Nice clean edges... I like that in a Ship. :classic:

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#21 kabel

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 01:05 PM

Thanks guys,
@frank: I appriciate your feedback quite a bit. I seem to have a thing with Portugese ships, and it's thus quite cool to recieve such positive feedback from a Portugese. That said, I'll see what I can do about making the frontcastle higher. As for the Revell model, I kinda like it and relied on it for quite a while although I do know, that it's not quite accurate.
@sebeus: the inversed 1*3*1 slopes  in red brown are extremely difficult to get. But, I won't be able to finish the stern caslte before I can get two more.
@MIATH: gald you like it, what do you mean with clean edges though?

Edited by kabel, 22 March 2013 - 01:06 PM.

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#22 ManInATopHat

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 06:50 PM

View Postkabel, on 22 March 2013 - 01:05 PM, said:

What do you mean with clean edges though?
I simply mean that the hull is nicely rounded, and sturdily built. It all "flows" with each other, you could say I suppose. :wink:

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#23 Rook

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 03:36 PM

MOC looks great but you should consider eating less butter while MOCing. :laugh:
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#24 Imperial Shipyards

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 02:33 PM

Hmm maybe it would help her look a bit if you'd change the grey line to something like tan or dark red maybe? Somehow I don't like the look of it right now, but that might be subjective. Good progress anyhow!

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#25 kabel

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 06:58 PM

thanks for the feedback guys,
@rook: it's only margarine! :laugh:

@perfectionist: maybe your right about the grey. Problem is that I have tons of grey hinges and so I wanted them in there somehow. Tan actually would have the same effect, but dark actually red sounds pretty good. Problem there is that the diversity of dark red plates is rather limited.But I might do this once I tear down the "brick" building you can see in the back ground.
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