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The HMS Bellerophon


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51 replies to this topic  – Started by Norrington , Jan 24 2007 04:08 PM

#26 Mister Phes

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Posted 04 February 2007 - 04:10 PM

View PostCapn Kirk 911, on Feb 5 2007, 02:56 AM, said:

ooh, I like the color sceme, and the home made flags look great nice job! ;-)


What's so good about the colour scheme?  Do you like it because its historically accurate?


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#27 Capn Kirk 911

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Posted 04 February 2007 - 04:13 PM

I like how there's yellow strips running along it, that mixz into the black! And the inside has a nice tan brick that looks good(or to me) and mixes with all the colors

#28 Bonaparte

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Posted 04 February 2007 - 04:51 PM

View PostMister Phes, on Feb 4 2007, 05:10 PM, said:

What's so good about the colour scheme?  Do you like it because its historically accurate?
It's historically accurate and it just looks very good. One of the my favorites color schemes!

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#29 Capn Kirk 911

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Posted 06 February 2007 - 11:19 PM

Norrington you should try to ezxtend the sails higher, instead of the origanal sails that I thought arew to low to the boat!

#30 Norrington

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Posted 07 February 2007 - 12:57 AM

Errr... I wish i had the time and bricks to make this but i didn't...
Just returned from a 3 or so year dark age, so just getting back into the swing of things. :)

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#31 Capn Kirk 911

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Posted 07 February 2007 - 02:08 AM

I know how you feel that has happened a lot of times for me!

#32 Phred

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Posted 07 February 2007 - 03:21 AM

View PostPaladin, on Feb 2 2007, 10:18 AM, said:

...
This is done for two reasons, first and foremost because I needed to make the ship much wider than the boat hulls allow to get a proper length to beam ratio that "looked" right, that and it allowed me to use whatever colors I wanted, in this case black and yellow (with some blue trim inboard). The second reason is strength, this model is extremely strongly built. I can grap it up with two hands by the nose and flip it up completely vertical without it bending or breaking and it weighs nearly 20 lbs (and it's fun to watch people wince)! Why overbuild it this strong? Because it does shows, it has to endure loading and unloading at various venues.
That is one well built ship if you can do that! 8-o  My frigate isn't even close to that well built!

View PostPaladin, on Feb 2 2007, 10:18 AM, said:

...
However it is mostly hollow, it's not just full of junk-color bricks, it has distinct gun decks, but it is built at about 1/2 minifig scale (1 stud = ~2 feet), although it typically gets figs put on it at shows for the kids.
Wow, that explains why the decks are so close together.

View PostPaladin, on Feb 2 2007, 10:18 AM, said:

There are lego cannon on the two main gun decks, there are a little over 50 cannon. The upper deck has my version of carronades (which is historically innacurate for Bellerophon, but plausable...USS Constitution's original specification was for the upper deck to be all Carronades, and is her current gun configuration as she sits in Boston after her last renovation). That was mostly done for aesthetic reasons. To keep the upper deck "clean" looking. Plus lego cannon are NOT cheap. I think it was the single most expensive part of the build on that model. In all the ship has a main battery of 80 guns (40 per side) with two bow chasers and two stern chasers. The reason the cannons aren't able to be "run out" is again, because of transportation and maintenence concerns. If they were on wheels and loose there'd be no way I could get into the ship to upright them or align them if they got jostled around in a car ride. The cannon are simply secured down to the plates they're mounted on. They're not permanently out or the gun doors couldn't close...a compromise so to speak. In any case you wouldn't want to get close to this ship's broadside were I to use it in a Lego Naval sim game  :-P, if you set a Black Seas Baraccuda next to it the lower gun deck is at hull level on the BSB, the mid gun deck is at main deck level of the BSB and the upper deck would be around the quarter deck and upper masts of the BSB...it wouldn't stand a chance I'm afraid...
Do you have any close up pics of your carronades?  If you want some ideas for some MOC cannons, check our the MOC Cannon Index.

View PostPaladin, on Feb 2 2007, 10:18 AM, said:

As for the masts...yes they are shorter than spec but they were as tall as I could make lego masts be without resorting to using some odd looking technic device or building them out of 2/2 rounds (which would have been fairly unstable). Again this was chosen for the robust characteristics of the lego masts. With all the sails on, at outdoors shows this thing has been known to actually catch the wind. Usually the masts hold...if they were less strong they'd often break, either in transit or in outdoor winds. That and, the lego masts are aesthetically "better" looking IMHO.
You should see how ZCerberus made his masts tall in this thread.


View PostCapn Kirk 911, on Feb 6 2007, 08:08 PM, said:

I know how you feel that has happened a lot of times for me!
:S  :S  :S  :S  :S  :S  :S
!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?!?
Kirk have you been in the Romulan Ale again?

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#33 Norrington

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Posted 07 February 2007 - 11:25 PM

View Postphred, on Feb 6 2007, 10:21 PM, said:

Kirk have you been in the Romulan Ale again?

AHHH!! Not again Kirk! *pulls out squirt bottle and squirts Krik* Bad Krik, Bad!
Just returned from a 3 or so year dark age, so just getting back into the swing of things. :)

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#34 Bonaparte

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Posted 17 February 2007 - 01:19 AM

I just realized that the gun-ports of this ship should be black i.s.o. yellow (for the sake of historical accuracy).
I was doing some research for my next ship (English ship of the line) and by comparing this ship with some real pictures this caught my eye.
Most ships on the internet are depicted with gun ports opened, making it hard to see the color.

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#35 El Bucanero

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Posted 17 February 2007 - 01:27 PM

View Postbonaparte, on Feb 17 2007, 12:19 AM, said:

I just realized that the gun-ports of this ship should be black i.s.o. yellow (for the sake of historical accuracy).
I was doing some research for my next ship (English ship of the line) and by comparing this ship with some real pictures this caught my eye.
Most ships on the internet are depicted with gun ports opened, making it hard to see the color.

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Thanks for the information Mr Bonaparte! I was also hesitating what colour they should be for my ship. Can you give us more information about your next ship Boney?

#36 Bonaparte

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Posted 17 February 2007 - 01:35 PM

View PostMr Tiber, on Feb 17 2007, 02:27 PM, said:

Thanks for the information Mr Bonaparte! I was also hesitating what colour they should be for my ship. Can you give us more information about your next ship Boney?
Are you going to build you ship in a yellow/black scheme?

My next ship will be a lot like this one (same color scheme), but in mini-fig scale. So it will be English.
I will not be using the standard Lego hull pieces, but make a hull with bricks. Otherwise I have some limitations that I don't want.
I have also started to experiment with MLCad since yesterday.
They idea is to design the ship for 90% in MLCad to have a list of the bricks I need and then order them from BL.

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#37 El Bucanero

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Posted 17 February 2007 - 01:39 PM

View Postbonaparte, on Feb 17 2007, 12:35 PM, said:

Are you going to build you ship in a yellow/black scheme?

Yes, the HMS Unclaimable... It will be a lot like the HMS Surprise...

View Postbonaparte, on Feb 17 2007, 12:35 PM, said:

My next ship will be a lot like this one (same color scheme), but in mini-fig scale. So it will be English.


A ship with the bee colour scheme is not neccesarily an English ship, there were French ships with the same colour scheme.

View Postbonaparte, on Feb 17 2007, 12:35 PM, said:

I will not be using the standard Lego hull pieces, but make a hull with bricks. Otherwise I have some limitations that I don't want.
I have also started to experiment with MLCad since yesterday.
They idea is to design the ship for 90% in MLCad to have a list of the bricks I need and then order them from BL.

Well well, sound good! What about the amount of cannons? Can you give an estimation?

#38 Bonaparte

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Posted 17 February 2007 - 01:58 PM

View PostMr Tiber, on Feb 17 2007, 02:39 PM, said:

Yes, the HMS Unclaimable... It will be a lot like the HMS Surprise...
Then you should really check this sites:
- http://www.handcraft....php#morephotos
- http://members.aol.c...tm#Longitudinal

View PostMr Tiber, on Feb 17 2007, 02:39 PM, said:

A ship with the bee colour scheme is not neccesarily an English ship, there were French ships with the same colour scheme.
I know, but somehow I always identify this scheme with the English...

View PostMr Tiber, on Feb 17 2007, 02:39 PM, said:

Well well, sound good! What about the amount of cannons? Can you give an estimation?
Something like 50 or 55 I guess (rough estimation).
This will be the "expensive" part because all my guns are in use on the Excalibur and my English sloop-of-war (doesn't have a name yet).

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#39 El Bucanero

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Posted 17 February 2007 - 02:02 PM

View Postbonaparte, on Feb 17 2007, 12:58 PM, said:

Something like 50 or 55 I guess (rough estimation).
This will be the "expensive" part because all my guns are in use on the Excalibur and my English sloop-of-war (doesn't have a name yet).

English sloop-of-war? Where's the thread? If there is no thread yet you should create one! Is it still in progress or is it already finished?

#40 Bonaparte

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Posted 17 February 2007 - 02:14 PM

View PostMr Tiber, on Feb 17 2007, 03:02 PM, said:

English sloop-of-war? Where's the thread? If there is no thread yet you should create one! Is it still in progress or is it already finished?
It completely finished already.
Its based on the Black Seas Barracuda but has 4 hull-mid-sections, a real gundeck (8 canons) and an upper-deck.
There is also a galley stove, sleeping quarters for the men, captains quarters.

I'll take some pictures soon...

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#41 Paladin

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 10:07 PM

View Postbonaparte, on Feb 16 2007, 08:19 PM, said:

I just realized that the gun-ports of this ship should be black i.s.o. yellow (for the sake of historical accuracy).
I was doing some research for my next ship (English ship of the line) and by comparing this ship with some real pictures this caught my eye.
Most ships on the internet are depicted with gun ports opened, making it hard to see the color.

Posted Image

I recall reading somewhere that painting the gun port doors black gave the illusion of the power of the ship even with them closed (such as when viewing the ship at a distance through a glass or when in port).

Certainly this image of the Victory shows that (the lower gun deck doors are closed).

It would be very easy to add black tiles on the gun doors of Bellerophon rather than yellow ones to "correct" it. However I kind of like the sleek look it gives the model with the doors closed...

Also, Napoleon, if you're going to design a model like this in MLcad...what I found was that once you figure out how to do the lower and middle gun deck you simply replicate that the desired length. The most complex parts were the beakhead and the stern castle. Also, 8x8 plates are excellent for creating the decking. There are probably 30 or 40 tan 8x8 plates in that model making up the gun decks. They're strong and easy to support and since they're not huge you can work in your "holes" (like the central cargo hold access in the center of the main deck) where you need them.

#42 Bonaparte

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 10:38 PM

View PostPaladin, on Feb 19 2007, 11:07 PM, said:

I recall reading somewhere that painting the gun port doors black gave the illusion of the power of the ship even with them closed (such as when viewing the ship at a distance through a glass or when in port).
That's a very plausible explanation. I couldn't understand the reason for the gun ports being black while it would have looked better making them yellow.

View PostPaladin, on Feb 19 2007, 11:07 PM, said:

Certainly this image of the Victory shows that (the lower gun deck doors are closed).
That's one of the pictures I way before where I noticed the black gun ports.

View PostPaladin, on Feb 19 2007, 11:07 PM, said:

It would be very easy to add black tiles on the gun doors of Bellerophon rather than yellow ones to "correct" it. However I kind of like the sleek look it gives the model with the doors closed...
You are right that yellow gun-ports might look better. Did you try to make them black in your MLCad design to see the difference?

View PostPaladin, on Feb 19 2007, 11:07 PM, said:

Also, Napoleon, if you're going to design a model like this in MLcad...what I found was that once you figure out how to do the lower and middle gun deck you simply replicate that the desired length. The most complex parts were the beakhead and the stern castle. Also, 8x8 plates are excellent for creating the decking. There are probably 30 or 40 tan 8x8 plates in that model making up the gun decks. They're strong and easy to support and since they're not huge you can work in your "holes" (like the central cargo hold access in the center of the main deck) where you need them.
Thanks for this advice Paladin. This will be very useful when I start designing.
I would really love to see this ship of your with my own eyes.
I don't really understand how your gun ports are working (the mechanism to open them)...

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#43 Paladin

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Posted 20 February 2007 - 02:07 PM

View Postbonaparte, on Feb 19 2007, 05:38 PM, said:

I don't really understand how your gun ports are working (the mechanism to open them)...

The gunports are made of the old style hinge plates...
Posted Image + Posted Image

There are two sets each per gun port. They are attached to the decking above the gunport but inset by one stud. On the "closing" part of the hinge it makes a 2x4 plate area. At the bottom is a 1x2 tile, and above it on the other two exposed studs is a 2x2 tile (making a 2x3 tiled flap that hinges up).

That is the beauty of those old hinge plates is that they can be installed like that. I like the click-hinges for certain purposes...but I wish that lego hadn't stopped making the older style. Both have advantages and disadvantages. The click ones let you create stop-and-hold action parts which works especially well on mecha and sci-fi type stuff. However the flat hinges are a great part for S.N.O.T. techniques...

#44 Bonaparte

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Posted 20 February 2007 - 05:27 PM

View PostPaladin, on Feb 20 2007, 03:07 PM, said:

The gunports are made of the old style hinge plates...
Posted Image + Posted Image

There are two sets each per gun port. They are attached to the decking above the gunport but inset by one stud. On the "closing" part of the hinge it makes a 2x4 plate area. At the bottom is a 1x2 tile, and above it on the other two exposed studs is a 2x2 tile (making a 2x3 tiled flap that hinges up).

That is the beauty of those old hinge plates is that they can be installed like that. I like the click-hinges for certain purposes...but I wish that lego hadn't stopped making the older style. Both have advantages and disadvantages. The click ones let you create stop-and-hold action parts which works especially well on mecha and sci-fi type stuff. However the flat hinges are a great part for S.N.O.T. techniques...
Thanks! Now I understand.
Thats a very useful technique because using those small flags as gun-ports is not always an ideal solution.

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#45 Phred

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Posted 20 February 2007 - 05:33 PM

View PostPaladin, on Feb 20 2007, 08:07 AM, said:

The gunports are made of the old style hinge plates...
Posted Image + Posted Image

There are two sets each per gun port. They are attached to the decking above the gunport but inset by one stud. On the "closing" part of the hinge it makes a 2x4 plate area. At the bottom is a 1x2 tile, and above it on the other two exposed studs is a 2x2 tile (making a 2x3 tiled flap that hinges up).

That is the beauty of those old hinge plates is that they can be installed like that. I like the click-hinges for certain purposes...but I wish that lego hadn't stopped making the older style. Both have advantages and disadvantages. The click ones let you create stop-and-hold action parts which works especially well on mecha and sci-fi type stuff. However the flat hinges are a great part for S.N.O.T. techniques...
I really like that idea *y*  ( a lot)
i think i may have to get a lot of them if they're not too pricey on BL

Thanx,
P

Edit:
Sweet! They're only 2 cents a brick on BL

Pirates don't hunt for treasure.  They bury it- I mean we bury it.  - Captain Kirk

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#46 El Bucanero

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Posted 02 March 2007 - 05:41 PM

I hope you ever return Paladin, because I'd like to ask you something about the hull of this ship.

Paladin!!! Where aarre you!

Mr Tiber

#47 Bonaparte

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Posted 02 March 2007 - 07:27 PM

View PostMr Tiber, on Mar 2 2007, 06:41 PM, said:

I hope you ever return Paladin, because I'd like to ask you something about the hull of this ship.

Paladin!!! Where aarre you!

Mr Tiber

Paladin is a very active member (highest post count) of the Indiana Lego User Group. I'm also a member although I'm not really living in Indiana  :-D .
So I you have some urgent question, you can always contact him via that way.

What would you like to know Mr. Tiber? I've been doing some studying on this ship myself.

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#48 El Bucanero

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Posted 02 March 2007 - 08:04 PM

View Postbonaparte, on Mar 2 2007, 08:27 PM, said:

Paladin is a very active member (highest post count) of the Indiana Lego User Group.
Well, he has 57 posts and theres another guy with over 200 posts... NVM...


View Postbonaparte, on Mar 2 2007, 08:27 PM, said:

I'm also a member although I'm not really living in Indiana  :-D .
So I you have some urgent question, you can always contact him via that way.

What would you like to know Mr. Tiber? I've been doing some studying on this ship myself.

How he did the  stern and bow would be very helpful to know (for my Brick Built hull Acheron)
Not that the rest of the hull is so important for my ship as the stern and bow, I'd also like some details about the rest of the hull

Mr Tiber

#49 Bonaparte

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Posted 02 March 2007 - 08:59 PM

View PostMr Tiber, on Mar 2 2007, 09:04 PM, said:

Well, he has 57 posts and theres another guy with over 200 posts... NVM...

You're right! He is currently on top of the list of "most active users" on IndyLUG which is not the same as "highest post count".

View PostMr Tiber, on Mar 2 2007, 09:04 PM, said:

How he did the  stern and bow would be very helpful to know (for my Brick Built hull Acheron)
Not that the rest of the hull is so important for my ship as the stern and bow, I'd also like some details about the rest of the hull

I'm also very interested in this information.

Mr Paladin, would you be willing to share the MLCad design (the actual .mpd or .ldr-file) of the HMS Bellerophon?

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#50 Paladin

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Posted 05 March 2007 - 03:28 AM

Hey guys...sorry I didn't respond sooner. I do have topic reply notification enabled so I should get emails when the conversation continues...and I did get your request Mr. Tiber. Although I have been busy this weekend...please contact me here or directly if you have any questions I'd be glad to help.

Anyway...yeah I can supply some of the build details of the Bellerophon model. I have a couple "partial built" .ldr files that I can supply that would probably be helpful.

Just remember when I was "modeling" the model in ML-CAD I was doing a complete build to get a parts count. Therefore you may need to dissassemble some of the model in virtual space to see how it's built. Also I have installed the unofficial parts files, and I may have used some of them. If you get any part errors when you open these files just ignore them (say 'ok' to the prompts or whatever it asks)...most of the model would be regular bricks that are in the official files.

Here is the forecastle...
http://lego.paladine...-forecastle.ldr

Here is the forcastle with most of the major hull in place. This will show you how the hull is built. For the most part it is a replication of the same build for the desired length...
http://lego.paladine...artial-hull.ldr

I don't have a good, easy to see model of the aftercastle and quarter deck. I'll see if I can prepare a file in the next few days. However the aftercastle is really just fitting the window galleries that protrude from the hull to the partial hull file. The protruding windows are set in place using 1x2x2 turntable plates. The angled windows in the back are simply an oversized version of the concept used in the aftercastle of the Black Seas Barracudda.




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