LEGO Historian Posted December 20, 2012 There are a lot of LEGO sets that are either unknown... or were never released, and are only known from prototypes. I have been working with the folks at LEGO Collections and Archives to try to solve these mysteries.... some of which we may never know the answer to. Some of these very obscure sets I have listed in my LEGO DVD download Chapter 15 - LEGO Prototypes... and one that there is no record of, I did an entire Appendix (Appendix A) of my download, because of it; continually coming up in LEGO ads or booklets, but never as a set. Here's one of the biggest mysteries, that a gentleman from Catalonia (Spain) had a copy of.... thus proving that some did get out of the company... a 1965 800 large LEGO set, that was only listed as selling in France, Norway and Denmark. Interestingly enough the one known Spanish owner of this set lives near the French border. Set 800... here are TLG Archive images... not much is known... except it looks like TLG took leftover paper meant for the soon discontinued front and back of the continental European Town Plan 200 board. The reason for this 1965 only set has never been found. And here's the inner box (a rare example of a cardboard upper box, and a plastic lower box)... Early 1954-56 PRIMA sets... These sets appear to have been produced by NORSKE LEGO A/S of Oslo Norway, an early producer of LEGO parts for Norway and Sweden. Why a PRIMA named set that had all the LEGO parts and brochures and box types, but with the PRIMA name (and not LEGO)... this mystery has never been explained. I talk about this in Chapter 2 of my LEGO DVD/download (early LEGO sets). The entire reason for PRIMA's existence is shrouded in mystery... neither TLG nor Norske LEGO has any information on these sets, which sometimes have parts with the LEGO logo, and an exact duplicate of the LEGO catalog. (down to the set designs and parts packs)... but with a PRIMA logon on the box and brochure. The only real oddity is that the parts are not made of Cellulose Acetate, but Polystyrene... Prima even had old Waffle Bottom plates in green and yellow, as well as old macaroni bricks in half and quarter circle in green and yellow... very unusua! And then there is a 1952 produced Danish Automatic Binding Bricks small basic set called 700/5... none have ever been found in circulation, but a Danish retailer brochure introduced them in 1952. Well I had TLG folks check and they found an image... but no box has yet been found to match it. Produced or only a prototype?? Lots more to come.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LEGO Historian Posted December 21, 2012 (edited) And then there's this odd number 1400 basic set (for ages 3 and up) from the 1980s.... it's from the collection of a Japanese collector friend. Not found in the vault or any online LEGO database or collectors guide. It's odd that such a recent set slipped under the collectors and TLG radar... Edited December 21, 2012 by LEGO Historian Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LEGO Historian Posted December 21, 2012 Interestingly enough, I sent the LEGO Archives a copy of this 1400 set image... they responded to me that they have no record of it... and are inquiring with LEGO Japan as to why not? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
L@go Posted December 22, 2012 Early 1954-56 PRIMA sets... These sets appear to have been produced by NORSKE LEGO A/S of Oslo Norway, an early producer of LEGO parts for Norway and Sweden. Why a PRIMA named set that had all the LEGO parts and brochures and box types, but with the PRIMA name (and not LEGO)... this mystery has never been explained. I talk about this in Chapter 2 of my LEGO DVD/download (early LEGO sets). The entire reason for PRIMA's existence is shrouded in mystery... neither TLG nor Norske LEGO has any information on these sets, which sometimes have parts with the LEGO logo, and an exact duplicate of the LEGO catalog. (down to the set designs and parts packs)... but with a PRIMA logon on the box and brochure. The only real oddity is that the parts are not made of Cellulose Acetate, but Polystyrene... In case you didn't know: The text on that box is Swedish. "Plastbygglådan" means "The plastic building box". In Norwegian, it would be different. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LEGO Historian Posted December 22, 2012 (edited) Yes, the yellow box is in Swedish... I should have finished before posting that even though A/S NORSKE LEGO (of Oslo Norway) produced those sets for the Swedish market only... for Norway they produced these sets.... These are the LEGO Automatic Binding Bricks that were produced in Denmark since 1949, and the bricks were made of Cellulose Acetate. The only theory that I can think of why they produced sets under the PRIMA name for the Swedish market (same box, but in yellow, with different writing)... is that the Norwegian company (a subsidiary of Svein Strømberg & Co., a Norwegian plastics maker) wanted to use up their inventory of Polystyrene. And what better way to do that than to use LEGO molds (but without the logo) and produced similar sets for Sweden. They could not produced "LEGO" sets for Sweden, since they were not licensed to do so... until 1955... when the first LEGO sales in Sweden started. It was around this time that PRIMA sets were discontinued. The Automatic Binding Brick sets were discontinued for LEGO Mursten sets in 1953 in Denmark. By sometime in 1954 LEGO Mursten sets started sales in Norway... and by 1955 when real LEGO sets were introduced in Sweden... the LEGO Mursten sets were sold there as well. Here are the entire range of LEGO Mursten basic sets sold in all 3 countries by 1955... starting with the largest, going counter clockwise... 700/1, 700/2, 700/3, 700/3a, 700/4, 700/5, 700/6 and "2x2/2x4 bricks only" set 700A... All this information (and much much more) is in Chapters 2 (Automatic Binding Bricks and PRIMA) and Chapter 5 (Early LEGO Mursten and Basic Sets) of my LEGO DVD/download. Right now, I am offering a special in the Eurobricks Bazaar, where (from now to Christmas), if you buy one of my DVD/downloads (with over 6000 historic and modern images)... I will also send a (2nd) free download to the LEGO friend of your choice (as a Holiday gift), with a personalized LEGO Christmas greeting from you (total time to send the download is only 5-15 minutes). See my Bazaar ad for details! This offer is good retroactive! Edited December 22, 2012 by LEGO Historian Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LEGO Family Posted December 22, 2012 Awesome post. I would love to know more. Im pretty sure that my cousin had that 1400 back when i was a kid ( mid 80s ) and in Denmark by the way ... I seem to remember the front of the box and the figs was what i envied him. Keep em coming. :D Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
splatman Posted December 23, 2012 HI Gary, I was thinking about those obscure LEGO sets and pieces you talk about around here, and have wondered if they're "perfect clones": ripoff sets/pieces right down to the logo on top, including catalogs, explaining TLG's lack of records on those sets. I doubt that's the case with the 1400 set, but maybe is the case with some others. Maybe PRIMA (and Minitalia and others) started off as a clone brand, that was then taken over by TLG. Or they simply reached an agreement at some point, working for TLG, not against them. Whether there's any record of such, is probably another matter. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LEGO Historian Posted December 24, 2012 (edited) HI Gary, I was thinking about those obscure LEGO sets and pieces you talk about around here, and have wondered if they're "perfect clones": ripoff sets/pieces right down to the logo on top, including catalogs, explaining TLG's lack of records on those sets. I doubt that's the case with the 1400 set, but maybe is the case with some others. Maybe PRIMA (and Minitalia and others) started off as a clone brand, that was then taken over by TLG. Or they simply reached an agreement at some point, working for TLG, not against them. Whether there's any record of such, is probably another matter. Actually, it's more likely the case of there not being any patents in place in Scandinavia at the time, since they were all worried about being a clone of Kiddicraft. I believe that the worry about litigation from Kiddicraft is what kept these clones such a secret from an archival perspective (no records, no litigation material). But I do believe that the loose licensing between TLG, Svein Strømber & Co. (of Norway), and Geas Konstharts (of Sweden) made the relationship purposefully vague. And I think that TLG got the other plastics makers subcontracting the toys (except for PRIMA, which I think that the Norway company did in a clandestine manner to get rid of their other plastics). Minitalia is a separate issue. In 1970 the Italian Parliament got a toy import ban in place, and TLG started manufacturing LEGO under the Minitalia name (and using some of their other patents) for a few years, until the laws were relaxed by 1972 or 1973. Even then the excess capacity of Minitalia meant that both products (Minitalia and LEGO) were sold side by side in Italian toy stores until the inventory of Minitalia parts (made of a different plastic as well) were exhausted... again TLG never threw anything away! Edited December 24, 2012 by LEGO Historian Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LEGO Historian Posted January 2, 2013 Well... another new (old) unknown set to add to the next version of the DVD/download (free to current owners).... This previously unknown circa 1966 Department Store Exclusive Set #93. Not found in any online database.... The origins are still a mystery, but this USA Samsonite LEGO exclusive may have been either a Sears or FAO Schwarz (luxury American toy store) exclusive set... probably sold at a very cheap price (perhaps $1.00) to interest parents into introducing LEGO to their Children. As was often the case with 1966-72 USA and Canada Samsonite LEGO basic sets... the set number was also the set part count. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LEGO Historian Posted January 8, 2013 (edited) Another unknown LEGO set... this #1902 Japanese set of 1978-80. What should TLG do with all those early 1980s unusual Minitalia (Italian pseudo-LEGO) window and door moulds and non-ABS plastic that they had leftover once LEGO sales were allowed back into Italy (after a 1970-73 hiatus)??? Add Minitalia windows (1x6x3 Panorama with 13 panes, 1x4x3 with 12 panes) and 1x4x5 doors with 9 LIGHTS!!! ..... all in black to a Japanese 1902 set! Not found in any online database (but in my DVD/download). Well at least this unknown set shows up in a LEGO catalog... the 1980 Japanese catalog.... Basic Sets page.... in my LEGO DVD/download catalog chapter.... Edited January 8, 2013 by LEGO Historian Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LEGO Historian Posted January 9, 2013 And then there's this odd number 1400 basic set (for ages 3 and up) from the 1980s.... it's from the collection of a Japanese collector friend. Not found in the vault or any online LEGO database or collectors guide. It's odd that such a recent set slipped under the collectors and TLG radar... Well I found out some very interesting information on this set from the investigations of my Billund Archives contacts today. It seems that in Japan LEGO was always mainly a department store item only found in big cities... not found in small town toy stores. So this really restricted the distribution of LEGO there (story sounds vaguely similar to the complaints of foreign auto companies). What TLG did was to enlist the help of LEGO Dacta, which did have access to school classrooms across Japan... and here is the story behind this relatively obscure and unknown 1400 set.... __________________________________ "1400" was the special product only for Japan with Japanese writing on the box in mid 1980s. It says "Special Set for Kindergarten child - LEGO bricks help stimulate unlimited creativity of the children". In mid 1980s LEGO Brand was not yet well known (like it is today) in Japan, LEGO products were sold only at department stores in big cities. So LEGO Dacta team tried to sell this set "1400" through kindergarten all over Japan. They prepared leaflets about this product and asked the kindergarten to distribute them to the parents. Parents ordered the products and get the delivery through kindergarten. The price was 2500 Japanese Yen at that time and sold very well. ________________________________ So in this instance TLG used the Dacta Educational Division as a sales tool (which it in a sense is anyway)... to sell a LEGO set that was otherwise unavailable to most rural or small town Japanese children, and get the parents interested in obtaining a toy that would further their educational development. So this 1400 set was a LEGO Basic set/Dacta set hybrid that helped (where the distribution channels failed)... to make LEGO more of a household name in Japan... which it is today. So the 1400 set was a marketing tool of sorts that did pay dividends in getting LEGO a larger foothold into the Japanese market. Looks like this is another "special set" to add to my already expanding Special Sets Chapter of my LEGO DVD/download next version (free to current owners/purchasers).... I love finding the history behind some of the obscure and odd LEGO sets... keeps me searching for more.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LEGO Historian Posted January 10, 2013 (edited) Well here's another unknown LEGO set (there's still plenty out there!).... It was purchased by a German acquaintance at a German auction, and is unlike any wooden box set I've seen before... very unusual. It has 24 compartments... which is the standard arrangement for 1957-72 large wooden box sets.... a pullout drawer with 8 small compartments, a 4 large shallow compartment area underneath where the pullout drawer goes... and an area of 12 (3 rows x 4 rows) medium sized deep compartments. This set has the "LEGO Gnome" on the box top (he was a popular LEGO box and catalog fixture from 1954-62) building a LEGO structure, which can be seen on the back of 1958-60 spare parts packs. There is a sliding top (also very common to large EU wooden box sets of that era, and an unusual feature... a metal plate on the sides with the 1957-60 LEGO logo on it, held into the wood with 2 metal pins. The box top has a similar image to the back of 1957-60 LEGO spare parts packs... as seen here.... http://www.peeron.co...-1?showpic=4934 This set has 6 10x20 thick baseplates, a LOT of red classic windows and doors, white plates, and just red and white bricks. These parts have all the hallmarks of a 700K institutional wooden box set. These 700K sets had different uses in different countries... in Belgium they were used for schoolroom use with alphabet bricks included... in Switzerland they were used for Kindergartens, with mostly larger bricks, and in Denmark they were sold to commercial businesses such as Beauty Parlors and Barber Shops, so it would allow the parent the opportunity to bring their children along (without being bothered, and no need for a babysitter). This box may be an early (1959) German 700K, which is labeled in 1960 onward LEGO catalogs as "700 Holzsortierkasten K" (700 wooden box K). But due to the very unusual nature of the look of the box... it may be a prototype, since I've never seen a wooden box set even resembling this (and my LEGO DVD/download chapter has 80 wooden boxes pictured... but none look anything like this one). Very strange!! Edited January 10, 2013 by LEGO Historian Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LEGO Historian Posted January 12, 2013 (edited) Well got a quick answer from the LEGO Archives folks...to the previous wooden box set. Likely of 1959 Swedish origins... unknown to the LEGO Archives and Collections... but they will keep an eye out in the future. They agreed that this set was intended as an institutional set, probably school use. It may have been a prototype set that somehow got out of the factory.... They also mentioned that that type of LEGO logo was first introduced in 1953, and the LEGO Gnome first was seen in 1954. What is especially unique is the LEGO "plate" on the side of the box... of the 80+ LEGO wooden box sets in my LEGO DVD/download... no other one has that kind of a plate. All exterior designs are either stenciled, painted, or papered. Edited January 12, 2013 by LEGO Historian Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alvinmotors Posted August 25, 2018 Hello LEGO fans. I have since my childhood an old LEGO (or pre-LEGO) building kit named Plastbygglådan PRIMA. It's unfortunately not perfectly complete, but with the original box and build instruction. It does also contain an instruction for LEGO system Mursten. It's all in the Swedish language. I am interested in some historic information on this? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CaptainSerMig Posted September 16, 2018 On 12/21/2012 at 6:03 AM, LEGO Historian said: And then there's this odd number 1400 basic set (for ages 3 and up) from the 1980s.... it's from the collection of a Japanese collector friend. Not found in the vault or any online LEGO database or collectors guide. It's odd that such a recent set slipped under the collectors and TLG radar... Just the version with Japanese writings on it is rare? Because I have this set, but without those writings Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LEGO Historian Posted September 16, 2018 5 hours ago, CaptainSerMig said: Just the version with Japanese writings on it is rare? Because I have this set, but without those writings This set was only known with Japanese writing on it. If you have one without, do you know where it originated from (Europe?). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CaptainSerMig Posted September 19, 2018 On 9/16/2018 at 9:14 PM, LEGO Historian said: This set was only known with Japanese writing on it. If you have one without, do you know where it originated from (Europe?). It was bought in Italy during its original relase time (and kept there during its whole lifetime) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Swedish 007 Posted February 21, 2019 On 12/22/2012 at 5:05 AM, LEGO Historian said: Yes, the yellow box is in Swedish... I should have finished before posting that even though A/S NORSKE LEGO (of Oslo Norway) produced those sets for the Swedish market only... for Norway they produced these sets.... These are the LEGO Automatic Binding Bricks that were produced in Denmark since 1949, and the bricks were made of Cellulose Acetate. The only theory that I can think of why they produced sets under the PRIMA name for the Swedish market (same box, but in yellow, with different writing)... is that the Norwegian company (a subsidiary of Svein Strømberg & Co., a Norwegian plastics maker) wanted to use up their inventory of Polystyrene. And what better way to do that than to use LEGO molds (but without the logo) and produced similar sets for Sweden. They could not produced "LEGO" sets for Sweden, since they were not licensed to do so... until 1955... when the first LEGO sales in Sweden started. It was around this time that PRIMA sets were discontinued. The Automatic Binding Brick sets were discontinued for LEGO Mursten sets in 1953 in Denmark. By sometime in 1954 LEGO Mursten sets started sales in Norway... and by 1955 when real LEGO sets were introduced in Sweden... the LEGO Mursten sets were sold there as well. Here are the entire range of LEGO Mursten basic sets sold in all 3 countries by 1955... starting with the largest, going counter clockwise... 700/1, 700/2, 700/3, 700/3a, 700/4, 700/5, 700/6 and "2x2/2x4 bricks only" set 700A... All this information (and much much more) is in Chapters 2 (Automatic Binding Bricks and PRIMA) and Chapter 5 (Early LEGO Mursten and Basic Sets) of my LEGO DVD/download. Right now, I am offering a special in the Eurobricks Bazaar, where (from now to Christmas), if you buy one of my DVD/downloads (with over 6000 historic and modern images)... I will also send a (2nd) free download to the LEGO friend of your choice (as a Holiday gift), with a personalized LEGO Christmas greeting from you (total time to send the download is only 5-15 minutes). See my Bazaar ad for details! This offer is good retroactive! I have no knowledge about how LEGO or Prima to tell, but... I think you are wrong about why Prima used its name on the paper boxes. My father inlaw recently made a discovery on his attic that when read without ”pics to prove” seems like a fantacy story. He was clearing room up in the attic and was about to throw pur old big boxes from his childhood when he opened some that was from his earliest years. It included toys bought to him that his mother hid away because his age, gifts that she didnt think he was big enough to play with when he got them. somehow she forgot to give my inlaw the toys and as he got older it never got used. First he found 4 unopened boxes of the early Automatic Binding Bricks. Then in the same big box he found 3-4 different complimentary smaller kits that had similar art.no but with higher number. Then he found a sales magazine for the kits and that was really cool. Its in swedish and on the pages it shows all the different thing you could buy at the time. If you only bought one set, you could build a house as on the front of every box, then all bricks are used. If you bought 4 sets you could build a mansion so much cooler. Then for the kids who had all of that you could buy a few set of smaller boxes, wich combined made the mansion even better. my father inlaw comes from a rich family so my guess is that they bought all sets available and directly thought that one day he will get them and would be able to buy the most luxorious mansion. We tried to contact LEGO in Denmark recently to find out more about the complete sets and they were very happy so hear of a truly complete set. Its even in better shape than the one they have in their museum and the extra sets they didnt know about. This is why I think you are wrong about why Prima used its own name when made in Sweden. The LEGO admin could not find original parts manuals or the magazines in its archive because when it was first introduced in Denmark the factory had a big fire. They couldnt find any legal papers on the time it was temporary made in Sweden in Gislaved because it all got destroyed -49 or -50 if I remember the response correctly. The were happy to se the stamps on the inside of the paper boxes that were unknown proof of the temporary license the swedish company used while the danish company renovated its factory. It was something about using the original metal forms for the plastic but I dont remember everything. As far as value goes they could not help us with that. They were interested but because it had all extra sets and information that they didnt even had seen proof of since it got destroyed it LEGOs youth. I think it was loosely valued as around 40-45000$ but the money they could pay was sell. My father inlaw is not sure if he wants to sell or build it and store in a monitor at home just because he likes the stories he can tell, since he bever got to play with it when he was a small child. First Im sorry about the bad english, im swedish and dont write in english very often. Second I only give you the information LEGO gave us when we showed them how much pre LEGO things we had. The answer to us when asked about the license for Prima was as written above. Im sorry if its not correct. Anyone know where the best place is to sell it if we decide to take it to some of the online auction companies sales pages? I started this account just to reply to this thread and dont know how to look at responses or mails, so please contact me on swedishoo7@hotmail.com if you have tip for me on selling the sets. I promise, this is not a false story, and if needed I can take pictures of all the sets and original manuals. It even has pricing, almost a months salary in total in 1949-50 when printed. Have a nice day! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Peppermint_M Posted February 21, 2019 I would love to see such rare and amazing LEGO artefacts! As for selling, you could look into auction houses that deal with toy sales. There are a number of them now, as Star Wars, Transformers and other toys have become valuable and desirable collector items. Unfortunately, I only really know of the UK based auction houses. I am not sure what there would be in Sweden, but Google for "auctions of vintage toys" or "specialist toy auctions" might help. 6 hours ago, Swedish 007 said: Have a nice day! You too Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Swedish 007 Posted February 22, 2019 Hi! Im going to the inlaws this weekend so I will take some pics for you. The cool thing is that all the advertised extra sets is there and in super good shape. It has been in storage in total of 60 years. Have a nice evening! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Capparezza Posted February 22, 2019 Uh, that's interesting. I'm looking forward to pictures, too. Nice little pieces of history in this post all over. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LEGO Historian Posted March 2, 2019 Hi Swedish 007, Thanks for your posts, and I too am interested in any info on PRIMA, or on Geas Automatic Binding Bricks. In the last few years the mystery of PRIMA has correctly been solved. Norway has nothing to do with PRIMA. PRIMA was produced in Sweden by Geas Konstharts of Gislaved Sweden. They had also produced Automatic Binding Bricks for the Swedish market (LEGO Denmark produced Automatic Binding Bricks for the Danish market. Anyway, recently I was able to show that Geas produced not only Automatic Binding Bricks (for Sweden) from 1950-53... but that in 1953 LEGO Denmark discontinued the Automatic Binding Bricks name in favor of 'LEGO Mursten'. Well it seems that Geas was not allowed to continue using the Automatic Binding Bricks name, nor the new LEGO Mursten name. So Geas came up with the PRIMA name, and PRIMA was allowed to produce (with LEGO Denmark's OK) the same bricks and windows/doors, but with the PRIMA name. Here is the proof I found that Geas also produced PRIMA. The Geas 8 sided LEGO catalog leaflet (left) has one page that is nearly identical to the PRIMA leaflet page (right). The difference (both leaflets are in Swedish) was that the PRIMA leaflet did not mention the Automatic Binding Bricks name. Otherwise, they are identical. Also they both mention the name of the same printing company in Värnamo Sweden on the bottom of the page. I found many interesting new items out about PRIMA and its continued association with LEGO Billund. It wasn't until March 1955 that LEGO Mursten sales started in Sweden, and the PRIMA sales had to stop by Geas Konstharts. Here is a circa 1953 PRIMA 8 panel catalog in Swedish... it is also almost identical to the earlier Automatic Binding Bricks brochure/catalog for both Sweden and Denmark... but the basic sets were renumbered. The large 700/1 house set became 507 under PRIMA, the medium 700/2 house set became 506 under PRIMA, and the small 700/3 house set became 505 under PRIMA. More info to come.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LEGO Historian Posted March 3, 2019 On 2/22/2019 at 1:43 PM, Swedish 007 said: Hi! Im going to the inlaws this weekend so I will take some pics for you. The cool thing is that all the advertised extra sets is there and in super good shape. It has been in storage in total of 60 years. Have a nice evening! Hi Swedish 007! I forgot to put a NOTIFY on the previous post, so do read that one please. I have several Geas Catalog images, including the very first one from 1950, so I will be glad to share that with you. Yes Geas Automatic Binding Bricks and PRIMA sets are quite valuable. I no longer collect old LEGO sets, but I know several people who do, in case your family wishes to sell any. Your comment about the fire at the LEGO company makes sense (although I thought the Billund LEGO fires happened in 1942 and 1960). They claim to have no information about GEAS, which is true. Anyway, I'm very interested in images of what you have. Here is a group of images of the Automatic Binding Bricks box tops from Denmark and Sweden. The Swedish GEAS boxes all have the writing in very thin letters. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Collector245 Posted March 3, 2019 Hello, I recently acquired a 1956-1957 German wooden box set and I have a few questions about it. On my box there is only space for one sliding lid but all the information I can find on these sets says there should be space for 2 sliding lids. The back of my lid is blank but there should be a town plan board on the back. Any information on this set would be greatly appreciated. I can send you pictures by email if that would help. Thank You, William Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
