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Heartlake Heartbreak - Day Three: Don't Ask Me Why

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#151 Hinckley

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 01:57 AM

View PostCaptain Genaro, on 11 December 2012 - 01:41 AM, said:

No disrespect Oscar but is there any way that we could hear some of this from another party the investigator trusts?While I would like to believe you, it does seem like a great way for the scum to cause some major confusion with the town. We could lose both Janice and Scooter and you could blame it on the investigator.

Don't get me wrong, as I already stated, I would like to believe you but an uncorroborated story of this magnitude makes me weary, especially considering that you could easily pass the buck along to the day investigator.

You think the day investigator is the only person who could corroborate the story? You don't see 10 other roles in there? I think if I was lying, at least one of them would come forward and accuse me for it by now. You may not know who Janice is but I know that you've been in contact with her. I'll ask Bunsen if he can get another Vanilla Townie to come forward and corroborate the story, sure.

You came to me in private and told me you watched me. I asked you a question in return. Where's the answer?

I'll ask the investigator, but I won't go out of my way. Somebody is lying as I've been told by several people that you have been i

It appears that four people targeted me last night, possibly all with watcher Actions. So they all saw each other watching me. :wacko:

Oops. A little extra sentence got left in there. :blush: I thought I had deleted that. :blush:

Ginny is claiming to have watched me but her lunch was a flavor cop lunch, if the lunch list Daisy made is true...which I think it is.

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#152 Hinckley

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 02:46 AM

So, Ginny went to my room but someone else was outside that scared her away. She won't say who. She wanted to use her flavor cop on me to see who else was visiting me. She knew her lunch would only give her a clue to my job but wanted to see if it would give her any clues about who else was targeting me. :wacko:

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#153 Dragonator

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 02:49 AM

That is somewhat confusing. :look:

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#154 DarthPotato

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 03:02 AM

Sorry for my absence so far today. It seems a lot has happened in that time so it took a lot of catching up. So I was looking at the vote yesterday since it's now confirmed that Walter's scum, and I was thinking that everyone that *didn't* vote for him have a higher probability of being Town. Walter was screwed anyway, so I can easily seeing his scum friends voting for him. This probably means that we won't be able to draw too much out of the vote (not that it matters too much with everything else brought up today anyway) but it does let us know that the people that didn't vote for Walter were willing to make themselves obvious, as some Townies would.

#155 Captain Genaro

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 03:21 AM

View PostHinckley, on 11 December 2012 - 01:57 AM, said:

You think the day investigator is the only person who could corroborate the story? You don't see 10 other roles in there? I think if I was lying, at least one of them would come forward and accuse me for it by now. You may not know who Janice is but I know that you've been in contact with her. I'll ask Bunsen if he can get another Vanilla Townie to come forward and corroborate the story, sure.

You came to me in private and told me you watched me. I asked you a question in return. Where's the answer?

I do think that someone else would have called you out if you are lying but I also think that someone else might want to confirm what you said if it is the truth. Out of the ten people you mention, you are the only one to make these claims in public. Maybe the group is fine with you being the sole spokesperson. I hope that you can understand why I'm being cautious.
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#156 Hinckley

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 03:28 AM

View PostDarthPotato, on 11 December 2012 - 03:02 AM, said:

Sorry for my absence so far today. It seems a lot has happened in that time so it took a lot of catching up. So I was looking at the vote yesterday since it's now confirmed that Walter's scum, and I was thinking that everyone that *didn't* vote for him have a higher probability of being Town. Walter was screwed anyway, so I can easily seeing his scum friends voting for him. This probably means that we won't be able to draw too much out of the vote (not that it matters too much with everything else brought up today anyway) but it does let us know that the people that didn't vote for Walter were willing to make themselves obvious, as some Townies would.

I didn't vote for him. Do you think I'm Scum? I was trying to stop the day from ending prematurely, before we had a chance to plan and discover more. We do have two people bringing town investigation results on me. Others also stated they weren't voting in order to keep the day open (which thankfully we no longer have to worry about). I think the people who voted for Walter are more suspicious. It was clear we were going to lynch him and they probably didn't want to be caught off the bandwagon. You're certainly more suspicious for suggesting the non-voters are Scummy.

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#157 Tamamono

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 03:41 AM

View PostHinckley, on 11 December 2012 - 03:28 AM, said:

I didn't vote for him. Do you think I'm Scum? I was trying to stop the day from ending prematurely, before we had a chance to plan and discover more. We do have two people bringing town investigation results on me. Others also stated they weren't voting in order to keep the day open (which thankfully we no longer have to worry about). I think the people who voted for Walter are more suspicious. It was clear we were going to lynch him and they probably didn't want to be caught off the bandwagon. You're certainly more suspicious for suggesting the non-voters are Scummy.

I think he's saying that he doesn't suspect those who voted outside the bandwagon yesterday. :look:

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#158 Shadows

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 03:43 AM

There seems to be a certain amount of confusion surrounding the day, so instead of relying on relaying messages through PMs and risking more confusion, I'll just lay it all out for you here and you can decide.

There is a cult, I guarantee this.

I have the ability to investigate and determine if someone is in the cult. On night 1, I investigated someone who came back with a "not cult" result. The weird part of the situation was that the investigation happened in an odd place, not their home, so I thought I could possibly use my role to help the town more if I also tried to determine what they were doing. As much as I am supposed to focus on the cult, there's no reason not to catch scum with it, if possible. I wrote and they immediately told me that they were the hider, which was not a role I knew much about, so I looked it up and learned that the person they were hiding behind was unlikely to be scum, if they were telling the truth. To confirm that, I wrote the second person asking for information and eventually they claimed day investigator. It all seemed a little too convenient for me. The first person also indicated that during their hiding, they saw Matilda who seemed suspicious to them. I took the opportunity to ask the second person to investigate her and they came back with a scum result. Seeing that it could all be a trick, I used my night investigation on the second person and discovered that they were town by process of elimination, not a direct town result. This is where I explained things poorly to Oscar and what seems to have caused a lot of the confusion. I "got a town result" because I already knew the second person couldn't be scum if the first was a hider and now I knew they weren't in the cult. Is that 100%? No, but it's as close as I'm going to get in my role, and given that I had caught Matilda in a lie when I contacted her about the whole thing, I believe it's true. Her lie was related to lunch, which I think Oscar has already explained enough that there's no point doing it again.

As Oscar knows for a fact, I have a disposable bulletproof vest. It provides me with a certain amount of protection against killers. If the town is going to be stupid and kill me (honestly, it would be stupid, but I can understand it given the amount of confusion), lynch me, the day killer, whatever alignment they are, can't. The reason I've been so focused on the day killer is because of the possibility that they could be part of the cult. I have way of knowing that, but the odd deaths looked like someone trying to kill quiet townies, something I would imagine the cult would do in hopes of outnumbering us quickly, which is how they win, by killing/converting the entire town and outnumbering the scum. Literally, they're enough of a threat to both sides that whatever happens today, I hope you will all take it seriously enough that you try to stop them, whichever side you're on.

Which brings us to the jailer. I wasn't even informed that anything had been done to me, so this came as a complete surprise. If I understand it correctly, I'm at least partially immune from negative town actions, the same way I was immune from the hider being able to hide from me. I asked for a clarification on that and never really got one, but the situation with the jailer fits what I've had to fill in myself via theory and assumption. If my theory is right, the cult leader and I have mirroring roles, they probably have a vest and are partially immune from actions. The idea being that a normal investigator can't find them because of the immunity, so I exist for that purpose. I doubt I'm immune from investigations, however, so if someone wants to do that instead of just killing me, that would be fine. At this point, I'm fully exposed, so I'm probably as good as dead unless the right people are being blocked and I have no idea who they are yet. Clearly someone is doing something right with the blocks or we'd have seen more killings, and as the jailer has confirmed via the voice of god (something I didn't expect), I wasn't blocked so you know I'm not the killer at least.

What a mess. This is not at all how I expected to eventually reveal the situation. It all comes back to the stupid lunches. That said, I would imagine that anyone without a lunch has some kind of important role and that role could be of any alignment, so I would suggest looking back and giving some consideration to anyone who has claimed not to have one (or has been shown not to via some other method).

Not sure if I'm leaving anything out, except that the day investigator, despite Oscar's claim above, has given no indication of doubt to me whatsoever and is insistent that the result against Matilda is right. I still don't trust that the vig is a vig for a number of simple reasons, but if they'll take her out, you'll have confirmation that the day kills aren't the scum at least. As for me, lynch me if you must, but I am honestly worried that it will leave you with absolutely no way to find the cult leader, and I assure you, the cult is real. With this being day 3, I assume they have managed a conversion by now, but it's only the leader who matters (unless this goes on for a few more days and they start to manipulate the vote).

That's all I've got, I think I explained everything, I know I tried to explain it all to Oscar but see where I wasn't clear enough on one point and for some reason, that's the one point that gets pounded into the ground until everything I've tried to do to help is thrown out the window. :sceptic:

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#159 Piratedave84

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 03:44 AM

View PostHinckley, on 11 December 2012 - 02:46 AM, said:

So, Ginny went to my room but someone else was outside that scared her away. She won't say who. She wanted to use her flavor cop on me to see who else was visiting me. She knew her lunch would only give her a clue to my job but wanted to see if it would give her any clues about who else was targeting me. :wacko:

Sorry for the delay, I was quite busy today; Targeted you with my banana :s and saw Ginny looking at you!

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#160 Hinckley

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 03:45 AM

View PostTamamono, on 11 December 2012 - 03:41 AM, said:

I think he's saying that he doesn't suspect those who voted outside the bandwagon yesterday. :look:

Oh dear God, duh. :facepalm: How did I miss that? He even emphasized it. With asterisks. Like you would on a writeboard! God isn't using them but that doesn't mean the Scum can't start one of their own.

DarthPotato, nice asterisks!

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#161 Piratedave84

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 03:53 AM

* I targeted



So, if there is a cult, is it essential for us to keep Shadell alive or can we get rid of this cult by ourselves?

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#162 Hinckley

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 04:00 AM

View PostShadows, on 11 December 2012 - 03:43 AM, said:

If my theory is right, the cult leader and I have mirroring roles, they probably have a vest and are partially immune from actions. The idea being that a normal investigator can't find them because of the immunity, so I exist for that purpose.

Your story does have corroboration from Bunsen. My worries are your poor explanation of the result, which could've just been a slip and the fact that you and I both have bulletproof vests. As you say here, there's likely a balance. I have a bulletproof vest and we have two investigation results on me that both say Town. That would be unbalanced to have two bulletproof Townies. Also, I'm not immune to blocks, hiding, jailing, so I would imagine I at least have more shots in my vest than you do. At least I hope so. I think there's a balance as well and you are the bulletproof Scum...or maybe there is a cult and you're the bulletproof cult leader yourself.

Or you could be Town! :sceptic: I know that's still possible. Let me check this. You targeted Beeker and found him in Bunsen's room. Right?

I think Scum would follow up on this anyway. However, if Shadell is unlikely enough to get this nutso role, this is what I would expect a Townie to do. The cult can't kill so I think you're safe. Why would the Scum want to kill you if you're out to get the cult. They should want to get the cult too. I think since the Scum would want to get rid of the Cult just as much as the Town. So, if you're the Scum Psychiatrist...Yikes :sceptic: I'm really sorry.

I don't want to be close-minded to the possibilities that you are Town. Now that you have outed yourself, let's all calmly figure this out.

View PostPiratedave84, on 11 December 2012 - 03:53 AM, said:

* I targeted



So, if there is a cult, is it essential for us to keep Shadell alive or can we get rid of this cult by ourselves?

Asterisks!!

Janice (who Shadell has already told us is Matilda) did say she got a result on Gabby and not Danny. I mixed them up. Sorry about that.

So why were you targeting Bunsen?

If Matilda is Scum, the Scum know who Bunsen is...

Shadell claims to have had long talks about the cult with Matilda. I forget my point there...

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#163 Darkdragon

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 04:04 AM

In the kitchen, Matilda is cooking sausages for everyone...

"Everyone always want's more sausages. What about Matilda? Does she get some delicious sausages?"
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"Well...maybe just one. I'll eat this quick though and then cook for the rest of them."
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"This is pretty good, actually. No wonder everyone is always asking for mo..Ack..somwhaaa..."

*ackm* *ackm*

The sausage falls out of her hand as she keels over across the counter. Julia walks in just and sees the unmoving body and gasps.

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She runs out and calls everyone to the front of the main house.


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"Everyone, your attention please! I was just in the diner kitchen and found Matilda (Zepher) dead. She was holding a huge sausage, I think she choked on it. We will go through her belongings and let you know what we find, in the morning."



#164 Piratedave84

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 04:05 AM

Addendum; is that better!

Note to self: asterisks are bad!

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#165 Shadows

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 04:08 AM

View PostHinckley, on 11 December 2012 - 03:55 AM, said:

Or you could be Town! :sceptic: I know that's still possible. Let me check this. You targeted Beeker and found him in Bunsen's room. Right?
If Beeker is my first target and Bunsen is my second, yes. You know I don't follow your codenames. The first one told me they hid behind the second, which told me that the second couldn't be scum, so my confirmation that they weren't cult cleared them in my eyes. Thus "town result".

View PostHinckley, on 11 December 2012 - 03:55 AM, said:

I think Scum would follow up on this anyway. However, if Shadell is unlikely enough to get this nutso role, this is what I would expect a Townie to do. The cult can't kill so I think you're safe. Why would the Scum want to kill you if you're out to get the cult. They should want to get the cult too. I think since the Scum would want to get rid of the Cult just as much as the Town. So, if you're the Scum Psychiatrist...Yikes :sceptic: I'm really sorry.
I have no reason to believe that the cult can't kill, yet you just declared they can't? Do you have some kind of inside knowledge that even I don't? I don't see any possible way to be sure of that, any more than I see where we can be sure that the day kills are a vig and not the scum taking out unlikely-to-be-protected townies. Why would I get a vest if they can't kill? It's why I've worried about the day kills. Still, it's true that I'm not that worried about the scum, they're in as much trouble as we are if the cult grows too much and I think they understand that, Matilda certainly did when I told her, though she obviously never admitted to being scum. No, I am not a scum psychiatrist. What the hell kind of role would that be, you can't cure scum... :laugh:

View PostDarkdragon, on 11 December 2012 - 04:04 AM, said:

"Everyone, your attention please! I was just in the diner kitchen and found Matilda (Zepher) dead. She was holding a huge sausage, I think she choked on it. We will go through her belongings and let you know what we find, in the morning."
Well, I'll give you that one, the day killer is either a vig or the cult somehow because Matilda was certainly scum. I feel my celebration is a little dampened by my own situation today, but at least this is good news. :sweet:

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#166 Piratedave84

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 04:11 AM

Welllllllll what do you know!!! Matilda is dead!

We still have a few hours to figure how we are going to deal with the cult and whom our lynch target will be; these developments have really taken a toll on my understanding of the events that have transpired today.  I need to do some serious re-reading and note taking!

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#167 Tamamono

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 04:13 AM

Alrighty, cool, Janice is taken care of; now the question is whether or not to trust Shadell. Her claim is pretty ridiculous, yet somehow makes sense - if the jailkeeper jailkept her, she would have no doubt had her action blocked if she was some sort of sick scummo; why would she claim that her action worke perfectly? I see no reason for any action to be unblockable, but that seems like the inevitable to me. Or am I missing something? :look:

Another thing to note - since Oscar claims to be a bulletproof too, there's a high chance that, if Shadell really is the cult investigator, she's independent and her only win condition is to kill the cult leader. Still, a cult is a big problem since there are no limits to its conversion power (not usually, at least), so I think we should at least give her a chance. Maybe verify her via investigation? Can she even be investigated? :look:

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#168 Hinckley

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 04:29 AM

Yes, Matilda was Janice. We had enough evidence to know she is Scum. If she's not, then Bunsen will pay for it.

The vig is working with us. :thumbup: Let's call him Sweetums as that's my favorite Muppet! :wub:

I'm glad Matilda is dead as she just said something crazy about targeting Ginny but actually targeting Bunsen but she forgot what she had actually done. :wacko: I hardly want to dig back through it.

Ginny and Rowlf have both received clarifications on their Night Actions. Apparently Ginny didn't see someone else outside my cave. She only saw that I had no object. Apparently the original result was given to her by mistake, but that is according to Ginny... Rowlf's clarification about the block and protect earlier came in a similar fashion. I think God might have gotten a little confused tonight as I needed a clarification on my lunch result as well. Let's try to sort through all of this to figure out what actually happened and what we should do with Shadell.

I want Shadell to play because she can be a lot of fun, but I just can't trust her yet. :sceptic: I feel torn. The Cult story is a bit hard to swallow and psychiatrist is a common Scum claim. :wacko:

Shall we lynch Sara for using the asterisks? Save the Shadell headache for another day?

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#169 Shadows

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 04:31 AM

View PostTamamono, on 11 December 2012 - 04:13 AM, said:

Another thing to note - since Oscar claims to be a bulletproof too, there's a high chance that, if Shadell really is the cult investigator, she's independent and her only win condition is to kill the cult leader.
Nope, town. If I can find the cult leader, the rest of my life would be spent as a simple member of the town. I assume I would lose my investigation action, since it would no longer have a purpose, and that would leave me with nothing but my vest, if I still had it at the time.

View PostTamamono, on 11 December 2012 - 04:13 AM, said:

I think we should at least give her a chance. Maybe verify her via investigation? Can she even be investigated? :look:
I'm fairly sure I can, I was never told otherwise. If I've read everything correctly, we have 2 investigators and I'm absolutely open to that.

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#170 Tamamono

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 04:32 AM

View PostHinckley, on 11 December 2012 - 04:29 AM, said:

I want Shadell to play because she can be a lot of fun, but I just can't trust her yet. :sceptic: I feel torn. The Cult story is a bit hard to swallow and psychiatrist is a common Scum claim. :wacko:

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Shall we lynch Sara for using the asterisks? Save the Shadell headache for another day?

Wasn't it one of the horses who used the asterisks? :look: I have no objections to lynching Sara, though, or Dave or Katie for that matter. I don't see the asterisks as damning, though.

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#171 Hinckley

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 04:35 AM

Everyone is confused so we must all be Scum. :wacko: I would like to propose we do what we always do when tensions are high on the farm. Wet T-shirt pillow fight!!

Gets hose

Oh, it was Patty the Horse, not Sara who used the Scummy asterisks.

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#172 CallMePie

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 04:36 AM

View PostTamamono, on 11 December 2012 - 04:32 AM, said:

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Stupid snake. That snake looks stupid. :hmpf_bad:

I think it's too ridiculous a claim, personally.
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#173 Hinckley

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 04:44 AM

Shadell knows quite a bit about many things. It seems like he's either been working for the Town or people have been stupidly claiming things to him. He's corroborated a couple things. We have a weird inventor that steals the votes of the person they target. He knew about that somehow.

Was anyone talking to Jane? Did she have an Action?

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#174 Dannylonglegs

Dannylonglegs

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 04:44 AM

Alright, Oscar. Let me preface this by saying, I trust you more than I do Shadell (especially knowing Shadell). You lead a Pro-Town Lynch yesterday and have been apparently investigated twice now, and as recently as earlier today.

I've thought over this again, and having heard Shadell's claim, I think you should think things over a little longer. Even if Shadell is scum, we have more to lose if we kill him now then if we try to figure this out with him still alive.

The threat off a cult is a bad one. I've never dealt with a cult, but the concept sort of scares me. I wish we'd known about this earlier. That being said, you still doubt Shadell's claim, which is reasonable. I have doubts myself, but I think playing it on the safe side is a better choice.

My primary reason for "fearing" Shadell's claim is the timing of it. He claimed to Beeker and Bunsen what he was, right? As early as day 2, right? What scum would act that preemptively? Even as a scum under his control a while back, I didn't get a clear peak at his methods, so I don't know if this is the crazy sort of thing he'd say at such a time, but it is crazy, and it did come very early.

Do you think the scum would have a Psychiatrist? Doesn't that sort of think usually default to us or neutral? It would be unbalanced to have two bulletproof town, but his role sounds so different from yours that it doesn't sound like he's bulletproof, but rather something different.

I sort of believed it upon first hearing it, and then after rethinking it, thought it was nuts, but now I think I'm more on the side of playing it safe again. At the moment, I think he's either A. what he says he is. B. a bulletproof scum, or C. the cult leader. Either way, we should definitely not Lynch him yet.

Here's my Flickr account.

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#175 Hinckley

Hinckley

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 04:52 AM

Dansmith, it's also possible it's all bullshit and he's meatshielded Matilda to get us to believe he's the psychiatrist when there isn't even a fucking Cult.

:blush: Sorry, hedgehogs are notoriously randomly hot-headed.

I'm starting to agree with you, as I stated before your long post. But, like anything else, would we be better to just know now if it's even real or not??

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