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Heartlake Heartbreak - Day Two: Flagpole Sitta

Heartlake Heartbreak

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#76 Zepher

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 11:45 AM

Fred:

If I wasn't relying on my previous dreams at all, how would I know to love you so much... and rejoice in your return after so many dreams with you missing in them!

On a more serious note:  I don't think that she ever really did believe in the lie detector.  I think you're underestimating how opposed she is to certain ideas, and how stubborn she can be about them.  I also can imagine her not wanting to give any information to you and admitting she were watcher... though going public kind of blows holes in that, so who knows.  But point is, I can imagine her being cautious with telling you anything, especially in private.  Can't you?  Only you know if you're town or scum, don't forget it.  Even investigations can be misleading sometimes, so people will never ever trust each other fully.  It's tough for her to admit to her most vehement opposer on the second day that she's a watcher, if that is the case.  Maybe Oscar was right in saying I'm wishy-washy.  I think I just hate lynching people unless I'm certain, and I can see so many other possibilities all the time.  And I absolutely, as stated before, believe that lunches are assigned to both teams, so agree that proves nothing either way.

Shadell:

I was waiting for you to speak up.  :wub:  I've got access to the kitchens, so if you ever need some more sugarcubes, or someone to eat them, just call my name!

I'm with you on most of what you're saying (a dream where Shadell, Oscar, Fred all agree is bound to be a whacky one).  The lacking glass is strange for a watcher... but maybe it indicates a weak watcher role in some way?  Or could it perhaps even just be a reference to her lunch?  If lunches steal other lunches, what's to say they don't also show what type of lunch the other people have?  Again, just throwing out alternatives.  I agree if she were framed, there would have been something scummy instead (does this mean any potential godfather [if he's out there] would also not be found by these flavor cops?  food for thought).  But doesn't "framer" seem WAY too on the nose?  That's NO DOUBT a scum action, and if there are... what, let's guess at about 4 or 5 of these flavor cop lunches... doesn't that seem like it would be unbalanced and not included?

I know, I know, Oscar.  I'm all over the place, I'm too wishy-washy.  I just brainstorm out loud, I suppose.  I really think I have a phobia of lynching people I'm not sure of.  I'd like to say in previous dreams it worked out like it did yesterday, but I can't say that it always does.  I generally just miss big votes.  :blush:

Even with all my devil's advocate, I agree that right now Daisy is by far the best lead we have, and if voting opened right now, I would probably vote for her.  If not Sara or Katie or Amy or Wild Dragon.  SPEAK UP. :sing:

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#77 Cecilie

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 11:48 AM

*phew*, finally caught up with all that's been said today. I could do well without all the pointless bickering and name-calling, but there seems to be some interesting tidbits of information in all that aggressiveness. Now about those glass-less glasses, I'd like to add a theory that hasn't been proposed yet: They were glassless because it was a one-shot watcher action, and it had already been used (Daisy claims she used it to watch Oscar). The framer theory also sounds plausible, and with Daisy's attitude I wouldn't be sad to see her go to test that theory.

On another subject, I'd like to help clear a few things up about the lunch stealing. I had lunch, and it was a lunch stealing action. I ate my lunch yesterday, and I'm the one who stole Penny's lunch (sorry Penny). Turns out, she also had a lunch stealing action. So now I have another one, and can steal someone else's lunch if I'd like. So what does this mean? Well, clearly a lot of people have stealing action as their lunch. As far as I can tell, at least 4 people (mine, Penny's, Jimmy's, and the one who stole Jimmy's). And for all I know, there may be more. Now why did I steal Penny's lunch? Well, for starters I wanted to use it, to see how it worked and what would happen. Why didn't I steal the lunch of someone who claimed to have lunch yesterday? Well, several reasons, the first being I deemed them all smart enough to make good use of their lunch themselves, and I didn't find them scummy enough to want to snatch their lunch from them. So why Penny? She provided little input and seemed to not be paying much attention, so I figured stealing her lunch would either be stealing a scum's lunch, or stealing the lunch of a townie who would potentially not put the action to good use.

A note about the day kill. It has been said that it's unlikely to be a scum kill, and I agree with that. It would seem kind of unbalanced if the scum could run around and kill us during the day, at least if the town actions are night actions. So I'm thinking it's either an SK, a day vigilante, or a one-shot kill, possibly from a lunch? Although that would seem like a bit of a powerful lunch. I doubt it's an act of God, as I cannot see the reason behind it. But I guess, as has been said, we'll know later when/if more people show up dead during the day. And if so happens, we must be careful not to wait until the last minute to share important information, as we could be taking it to our grave during the day!

I'd also like to add something on the missing night kill. If we assume the day kill was not a scum kill, then I see it as highly likely either the blocker or protector was successful tonight. I hope the blocker takes note of it, and hopefully he/she can find someone to trust with the information in case they die, so it can be put to good use later, when we have more information that can be puzzled together.
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#78 Scubacarrot

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 11:57 AM

View PostZepher, on 07 December 2012 - 11:45 AM, said:

Even with all my devil's advocate, I agree that right now Daisy is by far the best lead we have, and if voting opened right now, I would probably vote for her.  If not Sara or Katie or Amy or Wild Dragon.  SPEAK UP. :sing:

How? Because there were glasses found? If you explain how that implicates me, go ahead. Trisha said that her lunch, which I want to bet is the same thing as Fred's gave a clue about alignment.

The only scenario where I am scum, is if those glasses would mean I am a framer because it is an empty frame and that means I am scum, correct? While a framer is a pure scum role, it would not be much of a clue to my alignment, would it?

I will be completely serious, and as I said before, If I am being bullshitted, I will get pissed off, and that is exactly what Fred was doing. I have no doubt he is telling the truth about those glasses he found, but I will also say I have no clue what they mean. Fred's attitude sucks. He is not the best player around, and that's something he can't get through his little head. So he's acting like a dick, I will make him feel like he's the smallest dick in this city. You can replace is with has, I don't even care.

My ability to watch was a can of peaches, so literal interpreations aren't always the best. In other news, the hedgehog is apparantly town. Yay!

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#79 Speedy

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 12:06 PM

View PostZepher, on 07 December 2012 - 11:45 AM, said:

Fred:

If I wasn't relying on my previous dreams at all, how would I know to love you so much... and rejoice in your return after so many dreams with you missing in them!

On a more serious note:  I don't think that she ever really did believe in the lie detector.  I think you're underestimating how opposed she is to certain ideas, and how stubborn she can be about them.  I also can imagine her not wanting to give any information to you and admitting she were watcher... though going public kind of blows holes in that, so who knows.  But point is, I can imagine her being cautious with telling you anything, especially in private.  Can't you?  Only you know if you're town or scum, don't forget it.  Even investigations can be misleading sometimes, so people will never ever trust each other fully.  It's tough for her to admit to her most vehement opposer on the second day that she's a watcher, if that is the case.  Maybe Oscar was right in saying I'm wishy-washy.  I think I just hate lynching people unless I'm certain, and I can see so many other possibilities all the time.  And I absolutely, as stated before, believe that lunches are assigned to both teams, so agree that proves nothing either way.
So, by how stubborn she can be, you are referring to previous dreams? :look:  No worries, it's all good.

The thing is, a lot of people here thought the lie-detector seemed iffy.  And they said, "what the heck," and stated they were innocent.  Now, maybe Daisy thought I was scum right off for contacting her when she mentioned lunch publicly, but I gave no reason to make her suspect... Even with that, she insisted to be so against it.  It's possible that she really didn't believe at all, but her hostility to the idea was anti-town.  In every "dream" here, new things pop-up, so to flat out refuse a new role had popped up here was not townie.  I really think the flat out refusal to give it a try was a scummy fear, or simply poor strategy.  There was no way in which saying "I'm innocent" could in anyway be used to scum's advantage.  How can I read that?  Either scum, or dumb unreasonably uncooperative.  Should I assume the least harmful to town?  Really, there is still nothing more suspicious going on.

And the thing about the watcher, yeah, I can understand being conservative in sharing, but I had info on her.  She could discuss it with me, or with the town.  In all cases, sharing with the person in private first is safest.  Now, were she to survive the day, and were town, scum will know the whole story.  If she dies tonight, well, who was the leak?  Could be any of us (though not me, obviously :wink: ).  I was asking her to localise info, and she decided making it public was best.  If she's an important role, it's on her hands now.  I tried to keep it quiet.

I believe in the law.  There's nothing personal.  Though some stuff is still funny :laugh:

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#80 Zepher

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 12:16 PM

View PostScubacarrot, on 07 December 2012 - 11:57 AM, said:

How? Because there were glasses found? If you explain how that implicates me, go ahead. Trisha said that her lunch, which I want to bet is the same thing as Fred's gave a clue about alignment.

My ability to watch was a can of peaches, so literal interpreations aren't always the best. In other news, the hedgehog is apparantly town. Yay!

Forgive me if I fail to find Trisha as the most reputable source for the EXACT effects of an action.  I doubt we'd get little hints towards allegiance, but rather a weak role cop.

And PLEASE clarify, especially if you're town.  What makes the Hedgehog town?  If you show up town tomorrow, if lynched, of course, and somehow managed to confirm him, that would be EXTREMELY useful.  But that claim you made doesn't help you.

And, as to why I'd vote for you if it came down to it...

View Postdef, on 07 December 2012 - 12:06 PM, said:

Really, there is still nothing more suspicious going on.

But, as Fred said, we're still very early in the day, so chances are high that we'll at least discuss something else before we vote.

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#81 Scubacarrot

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 12:47 PM

View PostZepher, on 07 December 2012 - 12:16 PM, said:

Forgive me if I fail to find Trisha as the most reputable source for the EXACT effects of an action.  I doubt we'd get little hints towards allegiance, but rather a weak role cop.

And PLEASE clarify, especially if you're town.  What makes the Hedgehog town?  If you show up town tomorrow, if lynched, of course, and somehow managed to confirm him, that would be EXTREMELY useful.  But that claim you made doesn't help you.

I got of course a confirmation of that fact, don't be silly. allegiance it is, not role.

You remember that watch and the person I found, that person apparantly investigated Oscar, with his lunch, and got an actual result, namely town.

View Postdef, on 07 December 2012 - 12:06 PM, said:

So, by how stubborn she can be, you are referring to previous dreams? :look:  No worries, it's all good.

The thing is, a lot of people here thought the lie-detector seemed iffy.  And they said, "what the heck," and stated they were innocent.  Now, maybe Daisy thought I was scum right off for contacting her when she mentioned lunch publicly, but I gave no reason to make her suspect... Even with that, she insisted to be so against it.  It's possible that she really didn't believe at all, but her hostility to the idea was anti-town.  In every "dream" here, new things pop-up, so to flat out refuse a new role had popped up here was not townie.  I really think the flat out refusal to give it a try was a scummy fear, or simply poor strategy.  There was no way in which saying "I'm innocent" could in anyway be used to scum's advantage.  How can I read that?  Either scum, or dumb unreasonably uncooperative.  Should I assume the least harmful to town?  Really, there is still nothing more suspicious going on.

And the thing about the watcher, yeah, I can understand being conservative in sharing, but I had info on her.  She could discuss it with me, or with the town.  In all cases, sharing with the person in private first is safest.  Now, were she to survive the day, and were town, scum will know the whole story.  If she dies tonight, well, who was the leak?  Could be any of us (though not me, obviously :wink: ).  I was asking her to localise info, and she decided making it public was best.  If she's an important role, it's on her hands now.  I tried to keep it quiet.

I believe in the law.  There's nothing personal.  Though some stuff is still funny :laugh:

You aren't even reading or listening. I did say I was town yesterday, and I am not an important role. But I am also not scum.

And the notice that you think you can get me lynched is endearing.

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#82 Speedy

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 01:01 PM

View PostScubacarrot, on 07 December 2012 - 12:47 PM, said:

You aren't even reading or listening. I did say I was town yesterday, and I am not an important role. But I am also not scum.
You did so after it was established that Trisha was, well, Trisha.  Zero meaning.

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#83 Scubacarrot

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 01:02 PM

So about this glasses, they were found by me, so I want to know everything I can: They were found on a cupboard, they were black rimmed glasses, with no glass in them, correct? Any more you can tell me? What was your lunch? Describe how the action was?

View Postdef, on 07 December 2012 - 01:01 PM, said:

You did so after it was established that Trisha was, well, Trisha.  Zero meaning.

We've been over this.

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#84 Speedy

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 01:04 PM

View PostScubacarrot, on 07 December 2012 - 01:02 PM, said:

We've been over this.
That's right.

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#85 Scubacarrot

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 01:06 PM

Then not.

I genuinely want to solve this. Fred apparantly does not. That's fine, he can go back to sucking dicks or whatever it is he does. I was seriously committed to solving shit, I guess I will do that without Fred, because he just acts like a butthole. That's okay.

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#86 Speedy

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 01:16 PM

My, now eaten, lunch:
Strangely, I didn't have any name given to it.  Take that as you will.  Oscar has claimed an ice cream sandwich or whatever it was.  My ability was view an item from my target which might help me understand their "job."  Which I classified as a sort of flavor cop.  And as most of us know, flavor cops do not tell allegiances.

I am an open book.  That is the townie way :innocent:

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#87 iamded

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 01:17 PM

View PostHinckley, on 07 December 2012 - 05:58 AM, said:

I'll tell you right now then: I have cookies and an ice cream sandwich. They both do the same thing. Give me a clue to the role the person has.
So three different lunches with the same action. Mine's the third – a rather tasty bag of donuts. I wonder how many of these actions there were at the start of all this?

View PostTamamono, on 07 December 2012 - 06:56 AM, said:

An inexperienced vigilante is possible too. I'd expect a dayvig to go for a quiet target too, especially on the first day.
If it was a vigilante, wouldn't the best thing to do have been nothing at all? The chances of hitting a scum on the first day are terribly low, so it would be wise to hold back rather than strike blindly.

View PostScubacarrot, on 07 December 2012 - 07:01 AM, said:

As for something else, so I was eating my lunch while watching the hedgehog, Oscar, and saw someone do something interesting.
Watching? That explains the glasses I saw.

View PostScubacarrot, on 07 December 2012 - 09:42 AM, said:

Right. So Fred just send me a message that apparantly I have glasses. I don't know what that means and I don't. Care to explain that shit?
You do have glasses, it's true. I admit, my lunch made me incredibly inquisitive, so I peeked into your room and saw a pair of black rimmed glasses, but without the glass. Incidentally, Officer Fred seems to have had the same reaction to his lunch, and coincidentally also chose your room to peek in.

I was going to keep the information to myself, but sharing it can validate the Officer's claim and doesn't give the scum anything to go on, so share I shall.

On an unrelated note, are there any more repairs that I may need your help with, Carl? :blush: I think we did a charming job on the fence yesterday...


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#88 Speedy

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 01:26 PM

View Postiamded, on 07 December 2012 - 01:17 PM, said:

I was going to keep the information to myself, but sharing it can validate the Officer's claim and doesn't give the scum anything to go on, so share I shall.
Awesome. :thumbup:   Did your lunch have a name?

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#89 Scubacarrot

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 01:33 PM

View Postdef, on 07 December 2012 - 01:26 PM, said:

Awesome. :thumbup:   Did your lunch have a name?

She just said it was a pack of donuts. Strange yours did not have a name.

The only reason I can think for the glasses to be there, is because I had a watching thing, and since it was used, the glasses are now gone. Does that make sense?

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#90 Bob

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 01:36 PM

That whole argument was informative and fun to watch and basically confirmed who I'm voting for.

I voted for Daisy yesterday based on her actions and I'm going to vote for her again today.

Why? She doesn't sit well with me. Why else? Because she's being insulting and a general nuisance.

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#91 Speedy

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 01:36 PM

View Postdef, on 07 December 2012 - 01:16 PM, said:

Strangely, I didn't have any name given to it.
Shit, my lunch were cookies :facepalm:  I blame the wine.

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#92 Scubacarrot

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 01:37 PM

At least I don't cheese through every game.

View Postdef, on 07 December 2012 - 01:36 PM, said:

Shit, my lunch were cookies :facepalm:  I blame the wine.

So there are two cookies now. That's interesting?

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#93 Bob

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 01:37 PM

View Postdef, on 07 December 2012 - 01:36 PM, said:


Shit, my lunch were cookies :facepalm:  I blame the wine.

I can verify that the cookies do perform this action.

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#94 Scubacarrot

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 01:38 PM

View PostBob, on 07 December 2012 - 01:37 PM, said:

I can verify that the cookies do perform this action.

Nobody cares what you say.

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#95 Bob

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 01:39 PM

View PostScubacarrot, on 07 December 2012 - 01:38 PM, said:



Nobody cares what you say.

It's bad enough you're being a royal bitch to Fred, but please stop insulting others.

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#96 Scubacarrot

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 01:41 PM

View PostBob, on 07 December 2012 - 01:39 PM, said:

It's bad enough you're being a royal bitch to Fred, but please stop insulting others.

You know what, I am not going to argue with someone that can not read and never does anything.

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#97 Bob

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 01:43 PM

View PostScubacarrot, on 07 December 2012 - 01:41 PM, said:

You know what, I am not going to argue with someone that can not read and never does anything.

I do plenty. Maybe you should get glasses so you can see.

Oh, wait.

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#98 Zepher

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 01:44 PM

Mike, thank you for the insight that Daisy doesn't sit right with you.  We will certainly fold that in with the rest of our actual investigation.

Daisy, stop pretending that Fred made up his action and results.  We have his action and its results confirmed by Amy, and then the action and its name confirmed AGAIN by Mike.  This evidence is far from damning, but you're going to end up dead if you continue to deny that the evidence exists.  Fred could easily be scum using his TRUE results to get a townie lynched, but what we know for sure is that he is NOT lying to us at this point, so if you really are town, work with the town and stop fighting us.

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#99 Scubacarrot

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 01:46 PM

View PostZepher, on 07 December 2012 - 01:44 PM, said:

Daisy, stop pretending that Fred made up his action and results.  We have his action and its results confirmed by Amy, and then the action and its name confirmed AGAIN by Mike.  This evidence is far from damning, but you're going to end up dead if you continue to deny that the evidence exists.  Fred could easily be scum using his TRUE results to get a townie lynched, but what we know for sure is that he is NOT lying to us at this point, so if you really are town, work with the town and stop fighting us.

Hold up, I never said he made that up, I said way earlier it's correct. I have no doubt it is true. I AM WORKING WITH YOU. I AM NOT FIGHTING YOU. I am fighting dumbassery and dumb people.

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#100 Bob

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 01:50 PM

View PostZepher, on 07 December 2012 - 01:44 PM, said:

Mike, thank you for the insight that Daisy doesn't sit right with you.  We will certainly fold that in with the rest of our actual investigation.

Don't forget to include that I think Daisy is being insulting. That was part of my insight too.

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