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Summer 2007 Bionicle set names!


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#51 Zaktan of the Shadows

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Posted 20 January 2007 - 12:27 AM

Exactly. I don't how to make them better. But the squid did suck. they hardly even shoot.

-ZotS


#52 Darkness Falls

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Posted 20 January 2007 - 01:32 AM

View PostJINZONINGEN 73, on Jan 19 2007, 10:13 AM, said:

Well, I'll admit that rehashing the Ininka is weak, but the casual kid (rather, their parents) probably didn't buy all 6 Toa last time. Hell, I'm a fan of Lego Technic and only bought a few different colors.
So, rehashing isn't TOO drastic an action. From a business perspective, it takes a bit of stress off their backs.
Even though I'm a consumer who wants newer things, the reason I'm getting into bed with them on that decision is because they clearly devoted their resources to making the Barraki diverse and full of parts goodness.
Exactly. Has not every year had these kinds of tradeoffs? One thing blowing monkeys while another thing clearly being where attention was placed?

It's pretty forgivable, if you ask me.

As for the Mahri (or Inika, or Barraki...) sucking... couldn't disagree more. The Inika had good armor pieces to be had. Sure, it might blow paying $10 for ARMOR, but the elongated mocing pieces were welcome to those who didn't even SEE the Toa Metru at their local toy stores. (I swear, my Walmart had the Metru and Hordika Toa maybe one week).

Keep in mind too, alot of kids are just getting into Lego, with no sets in their arsenal. And the sets deliver them a complete action figure that doesn't look too bad.

I don't know... i can't imagine how the Inika, Barraki or Mahri could be BETTER. Well no, i can... get rid of the SUPER-LAME squid launchers and ammo. What a worthless waste of the line's budgeting resources. The kind of garbage someone should get fired over.
But looking at their core structure, they could only be made better by starting to get into a large increase in the set's part quantity.

New fans will like the sets as figures.
Older fans will realize they can buy System sets to enhance them and make the figures "right".
But I'm not sure what could be done to make the few saying they suck like them.
If you don't like the Inika, Mahri or Barraki... what could be done differently?
I don't think the Mahri are bad, and we've seen this technique before. Toa Olda-Toa Nuva? I remember peeing my pants when I saw the Nuva, and I scooped up all six. It's partly the look that makes a Set good as well. You might say "The Mahri are weak because they're the same sets as the Inika" but, whether you like it or not, they aren't. I think, by look, the Mahri are far different than the Inika, and they also have different pieces. So Jaller Mahri has some of the same pieces as Jaller Inika, but he doesn't remind me of Jaller Inika in any way. Plus, Hewkii looks like a whole different character! How can you say that's a rehash?

Darth Vader said:

ALSO, you're confusing two different fanbases. The one that says they all suck pipes up when pictures are released, while the 'UBER TRUE LOYAL FANS' defend them in small numbers and tell the 'they suck' people to shut up. Then, when they're released, the 'UBER TRUE LOYAL FANS' declare EN MASSE that they're awesome, drowning out those who said they sucked, and still think they suck.
Wait, what's the point you're trying to make? That, upon picture release, there is a small amount of "UBER TRUE LOYAL FANS," but on release, they swell to a hundred times their size?

I know that you think the Inika sucked. I also guess I could be labelled as a "UBER TRUE LOYAL FAN," but the question I want to know is:

What do you think of the Mahri?

#53 Lord Admiral Helden Ravensdorn

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Posted 20 January 2007 - 02:27 AM

Im just trying to figure out if the "TRUE UBER LOYAL FANS" are those of us who remember the true feel of BIONICLE or those of us who just swallow anything GregF and TLC throws at them...

#54 Echo

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Posted 20 January 2007 - 04:02 AM

View PostLord Admiral Helden Ravensdorn, on Jan 20 2007, 02:27 AM, said:

Im just trying to figure out if the "TRUE UBER LOYAL FANS" are those of us who remember the true feel of BIONICLE or those of us who just swallow anything GregF and TLC throws at them...
TRUE UBER LOYAL FANS, also known as drones, are the people who buy whatever LEGO throws at them. The people like DV who remember classic Bionicle are called LOSER UNTRUE FANS, or people with free wills.

I shall now quote a post I made on another forum.

Me said:

Jaller is nice, Hewkii is ugly, Hahli is okay, Kongu is fat, Nuparu is blurry, Matoro is cool, Hydraxon has a foot as a torso, Gadunka is good in comical way, and Maxilos and Spinax pwn.


#55 Lord Admiral Helden Ravensdorn

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Posted 20 January 2007 - 04:21 AM

Wait...

Matoro (see: The Next Gen of Emo Toa) REALLY has a foot for a torso >_>

#56 Darkness Falls

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Posted 20 January 2007 - 05:01 AM

Ah, then I'm a LOSER UNTRUE FAN, with a hint of TRUE UBER LOYAL FAN... just in the sense that I'm ready to give the sets a try.

#57 Darth Vader

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Posted 20 January 2007 - 07:44 PM

Quote

I know that you think the Inika sucked. I also guess I could be labelled as a "UBER TRUE LOYAL FAN," but the question I want to know is:

What do you think of the Mahri?
Aesthetically they're hideous. And not in a good way. Jaller's got some sort of pot-belly going on, and his mask sucks. Hardcore. Hewkii makes me cry. In a bad way. His mask, arms, etc, all look terrible. Aesthetically, I cannot get behind any of the sets I've seen so far, including the boxed sets.

Technically, as in how they're built, rather than how they look, they're the same old, same old. Boring.

I'll, as always, scoop 'em up for pieces, but the sets themselves are disappointingly sucky. Worse than the Inika. I'm debating on whether or not they suck as bad as the Hordika did.

<<DV>>

#58 Echo

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Posted 20 January 2007 - 10:08 PM

View PostDarth Vader, on Jan 20 2007, 07:44 PM, said:

I'm debating on whether or not they suck as bad as the Hordika did.

<<DV>>
I don't think so. The Mahri look like they have some good pieces, whereas the Hordika had almost no usable pieces.

#59 Zaktan of the Shadows

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Posted 21 January 2007 - 12:58 AM

Yes, the Mahri have good peices.

-ZotS


#60 Lord Admiral Helden Ravensdorn

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Posted 21 January 2007 - 05:45 AM

Yup, that gatling guns real usefull

#61 Zarkan

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Posted 21 January 2007 - 06:42 PM

Quote

or those of us who just swallow anything GregF and TLC throws at them...

Okay, hear me out when I state the facts: GregF and the story team have NOTHING to do with the set design. Period. So many people here have been relating him to all the dumb launchers and the sets they say are horrible, but the fact is that Greg doesn't design the sets, nor does the story team. His job is to help make the story, as he has said before. TLC are the people responsible for the sets, not GregF, so when you dis the sets, you are dissing TLC, not Greg (which is still perfectly fine).

What I really can't understand is why people thing Bionicle is now GregF's little playhouse, and not a group effort. He may be a major player in the story, but the story team members all contribute, and he and them debate things like any normal team do. GregF is not the end all of Bionicle, contrary to what you guys are saying, so saying that GregF is the sole "killer of Bionicle" is like saying that Hitler is the sole player in WWII (which is totally untrue).

Quote

I don't think so. The Mahri look like they have some good pieces, whereas the Hordika had almost no usable pieces.

What about the smaller arms that were made in new colors? What about the silver armor and hordika feet? What about the head joints and some of the tools? I've seen all of those used well in MOC's, and I've often used them as well.  ;-)

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#62 dillthepill

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Posted 22 January 2007 - 01:57 AM

I really like Gadinka, Hydraxon, and Maxilo and Spimax. Those are the best of the lot.

The Mahri look ok, out of Jaller and Hewkii, they seem to be very good. I can't see the other four really, though.

As for the playsets, they just look awful. *n*  Too many dumb and juniorized pieces.

I will probably get all the Mahri and definately the Titans.

#63 Cyclone Titan

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Posted 22 January 2007 - 02:58 AM

View PostZaktan of the Shadows, on Jan 14 2007, 02:02 PM, said:

I have some pics. look in my above post.

-ZotS
  
Yeah Zaktan and you'll find pics of the titans e.t.c, anyhoo to do that go to Brickshelf type in Toa Mahri and you're there *y*
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#64 JINZONINGEN73

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Posted 22 January 2007 - 03:11 AM

View PostEcho, on Jan 20 2007, 05:08 PM, said:

I don't think so. The Mahri look like they have some good pieces, whereas the Hordika had almost no usable pieces.
Totally. Totally totally.

Ok, so there's the UBER FANS who buy anything Lego makes, and the UBER LOSERS who lament for a return to the 2001 line and such.

Both are a bit idiotic.
The best way to go is by giving credit and criticism where it's due.

For example, if Lego were a person you could talk to, it should go like this:

(PRAISE) Hey Lego, nice amount of new, strange parts in these sets.
(CRITICISM) What kind of DRUGS were you doing when you thought either new customers or old fans would find the squid launchers fun or useful?
(PRAISE) These canisters stick out and should increase sales.
(CRITICISM) Hey, thanks for AGAIN not making the canister lids able to be used as part of the set, like the 2001 ones were.
(PRAISE) These Barraki are decent enough figures to welcome new customers with.
(CRITICISM) Yeah, it's that "enough" that annoys me. Have you never watched anime? These could be way cooler. What next, Robby the Robot?
(PRAISE) Thanks for dragging Bionicle kicking and screaming out of the hell that was the kiddy goo of tools instead of weapons.
(CRITICISM) Ok, ok, we get it... EVERYONE loved Kopaka's (2001) sword. But that was only because he was the only one with a bonafide, undeniable weapon! Not EVERY set has to have silver crap blades everywhere!

Etc etc...

It's unrealistic to expect to see 2001 again.
It's also bad for the line and for you to get it.

It's unrealistic to love everything they put out.
It's also bad for the line and for you to blindly buy it all without voicing your complaints.

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Aesthetically they're hideous. And not in a good way. Jaller's got some sort of pot-belly going on, and his mask sucks. Hardcore. Hewkii makes me cry. In a bad way. His mask, arms, etc, all look terrible. Aesthetically, I cannot get behind any of the sets I've seen so far, including the boxed sets.
True, true, true, true, true BUT.... but they're not as "rehash" as the Toa Nuva were.
And they are FAR from as useless they were in the parts area.

Quote

Im just trying to figure out if the "TRUE UBER LOYAL FANS" are those of us who remember the true feel of BIONICLE
I remember the feel of the 2001 line quite well.
The masks and all the different colors they came in brought a tear to my eye, along with the thrill of hunting for trans ones in the packs.
I also remember feeling a little stupid, with Lego's anti-violence policy. (Lego fixed it).
I remember hating how the large Rahi sets were like 80 million dollars each. (Well, at least the characters now aren't that expensive).
I remember wishing the ball parts had a hole going all the way through. (We got'em).
I remember hating the gear-crotch on all the Toa (well...) and the lack of differences in the 6 main guys (fixed)
I remember wishing they had actual fingers. (Exo-force robot arms / Bionicle minifig arms anyone?)
I remember campaigning for glow in the dark figures. (They're on the right track now.)
I remember TERRIBLE Rahi designs. Punching snakes on tank treads? Worthless piles of axles? (Way more coherent now).
I remember wishing they could fire weapons like all the cool toys in the 70's did. (Zamor, and now the gatling guns)

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Yup, that gatling guns real usefull
Keep in mind, there's a whole set it's attached to, much as the Barraki are (unfortunately) packaged with the awful squid launchers (which better not ever return, EVER, in any Lego set), so are the Mahri.
And personally, gatling guns are fun. That they actually fire is an extra special bonus.

I admit that the Barraki and Mahri aren't the most aesthetically pleasing set designs, but man... some of the ones from before the Inika were downright dog-assed UGLY.
These newer figures looked like they were forged by a god compared to the previous incarnations!

Look, I loved 2001 alot too. I loved all those smaller Technic bits. To this day, those parts are STILL integral parts to my mocs.
But think about it... if Bionicle started with, say, the Inika... wouldn't it have been somewhat retarded if the next wave were the minimalistic 2001 Toa?
It'd be a car wreck of disgruntled fans!

Another thing that people forget, which bugs me to no end, is that those wonderful parts of the 2001 Toa are not GONE. They're in non-Bionicle sets! Right there, maybe what, 2 feet away from the canisters in the Lego aisle?

So ok, one year 2001 purists get their wish and the sets go all back into Technic.
Then what? Other Technic lines will trail off, with no outlet for the weirder Bionicle parts that are common these days?
Bionicle having these weird parts is OK. It gives builders more freedom, not take it away.
You just have to buy outside the Bionicle line here and there.

The Inika, Barraki and Mahri are adequate sets to get new customers.
And the parts included are great additions to older fans/builders.

(PRAISE) Hell, I just bought Pridak today for those sweet, sweet, gigantic white feet. There's a million uses for something that cool. And the blue eye globes. And the white connectors. And the axles/pegs.
(CRITICISM) But the squid and their launcher can go STRAIGHT into the trash. Way to misappropriate a figure's budget with unwanted parts, dude!

Yell when you like something.
Yell when you hate something.
And never forget exactly what you think you're initially yelling for.

I think Lego's got a great balance now, especially looking at the parts-heavy Rahi type sets on the horizon. They actually look like they're trying. I say they're succeeding.

Edited by JINZONINGEN 73, 22 January 2007 - 03:22 AM.

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#65 Zaktan of the Shadows

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Posted 23 January 2007 - 12:24 AM

Jinzoningen 73 is right.

and the gattling guns could be useful. Just you wait...

-ZotS


#66 Darkness Falls

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Posted 23 January 2007 - 02:52 AM

I agree with everything Jinzo said.

But seriously, I can't wait to get my hands on those Gatling Guns. The Zamor Launchers never really impressed me, so I made a Zamor Bazooka (which actually fires!) instead. While these are cool, I can't wait to make ridiculous weapons out of them as well.

#67 KMOI

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Posted 23 January 2007 - 07:58 AM

Agree with the silver.
Agree with masks.
Agree with can't return to 2001 building style. (Oh, I love the Piraka and Inika, by the way)
Agree with useless parts. (Nuva limbs was a major letdown, but Bohrok arms weren't, from my view; makes for decent Exo-Force crane arms)
Disagree with anti-violence policy ditching.
Disagree with Rahi sets. (I loved them to bits)
No stance on ball parts.
Disagree "lack of differences on the six main guys". (Look up Toa Metru, Hordika, Inika)
Disagree on "horrible designs for rahi". (I prefer biped walking ability to be reserved for special sets)
No stance on glow in the dark.
MAJOR disagreement with firing weapons.
TOTALLY agree on weird parts.

Really seems like you're refuting some serious purists there, Jinz. Even though most of us have been outspoken, I don't think any of us actually said "Bionicle should be made entirely out of technic pegs". I agree with you on some points, but otherwise, I'm not really being "converted", so to speak. I definately agree with the overuse of silver in weapons, seeing as how it was supposed to be exclusively for more powerful characters. (See MATORAN use of protodermic blades) Yes, there were also useless parts such as the Nuva limbs which looked horrible (comic artist had to remake legs when drawing comic) even for advid fans. To me, weird parts is what really made Bionicle "Bionicle" in the first place. From day one, they never conformed to the norm of "Technic". They shattered it, and evolved into their own line. Mad kudos to that, Bionicle.

But other than those points, I disagree to the fullest extent. Rahi sets back then were alot of fun. Sure, no projectiles, but hey. If you wanted projectiles, why not just walk one step westward of the LEGO section? There, you'd be greeted with Throwbots. And to this very day, their projectiles still hold a very respectable second place in "distance of a LEGO projectile" (First being those awesome spinners). Back on the topic of Rahi though, they were awesome. Compared to what we're about to get, treads are NOTHING. Need I remind you all that there's a SUBMARINE in this upcoming saga? Back on Mata-Nui before the Metru-retcon, they hadn't even made a powerful motorized vehicle (Largest was Ga-Koro skimmer). And it's not like that sub is a minnow either. That thing is a deep-sea BEHEMOTH. It's quite possbly larger than anything in the Aquazone sets of yesterdecade. Also, punch weapons were awesome. Taking a page out of Cyberslam, they really made it work very well. The whole "knock off the infected mask to free rahi" deal really worked!

While I love the new boxed sets as much as the next Bionicle "UBER-LOYAL-YESMAN", a part of me still prefered the bipedal walking ability to be reserved for more "elite" figures. But now, practically EVERYTHING walks on two hind legs and anything that doesn't qualifies for a Matoran food source. (Muakaburger, anyone?) Heck, even the fish has legs (Which in retrospect, looks good on him). But hey. It wouldn't hurt to have a centaurish design like some of fellow Eurobricker BigFatSlob's MOCs. Nor would it really murder the line to have a serpent-like frame. Heck, serpents SCREAM evil! Just look at the Vikings!

I don't think I'm really going to have to really dive into the details as to why I think that they REALLY dropped the ball in the past in terms of "set" uniqueness. You think the original Toa were rehashed? Look at the Metru. The Hordika. The Inika. They were all just repaints of the same frame over and over and over! The only thing that each character "unique" was the mask and weapons. (Inika, however, were really entertaining) I really like the Barraki, though improvements could be made. Pridak looks really good, if only he weren't so dwarfish. My suggestion would be to have some extentable "thin" limbs (But not THAT long) to balance out the insanely large feet, weapons and head, and he's good to go.

Oy. I hate it whenever we go into the "NOWEAPON, YESWEAPON" debate. I sure hope this doesn't go into a 5 page long exchange, because I really doubt any of us want to go through something like that again.  

Anyways, I say no. Why is this, exactly? I think Bionicle's dived too far into the deep end in terms of projectiles. Don't get me wrong. I LOVED the Exo-Toa's missle launcher. I loved the disks. I absolutely ADORED the spinner launchers. Those ones actually fit into the theme. The only grips I have with these is that I wish the spinners were introduced earlier as Matoran's defense mechanisms during the Bohrok saga along with the Boxor. My hate started with the Zamor. Why exactly? Because it was the most flagrant copy of the concept of what made B-Daman a hit. Granted, they never fired these from the chest, but it was the gesture that hurt. Mega Bloks copied Beyblade in their Bionicle (Not the knight one) clone. Just to see LEGO copy B-Daman (From makers of Beyblade) HURT. It was then that it hit me. LEGO just stooped to Mega Blok's level.  However, here's the redeeming part. Other than the launcher, the Piraka (To me) were near flawless. They were simply beautiful. So, no big deal. Take off launcher, and Thok looks normal. I only started to question Bionicle's venture into lanuchers after the Inika came out with those semi-automatic weapons. But still, no red light went off.

And then I saw the 2007 Toa. A panel of red lights exploded in my head. The glorious heroes of 2007 come running in. Wait, no. They're not running. They seem to be heaving some heavy foreign object behind them. What is that thing? Holy brick. Everybody run! They've got GATTLING GUNS! Swim, Pridak, swim!

Okay, all sarcasm aside, something just doesn't work with those guns. I mean the Barraki have squid launchers. That's as devious as a cat-launching crossbow. But the Toa? They plod in with their old Bessies, going Barraki hunting. Y'know how I said I take back my comments that Bionicle resembles Halo? I take back my take-back. I used to think that the heroes would be the ones seriously outgunned, but after seeing this pics, I find myself in an akward position, cheering the Barraki on and hoping the underdogs take down those Spartans. Usually, I'd be moderately okay with this. But not this time. It's just too extreme for me to even remotely get my head around it. Even Exo-Force, a theme that is loaded with rifles, doesn't even have this. Just picture this for a second. You're invited to a fencing tourney. You're up in the first match. You opponent has his sabre. You decide to nuke the entire venue from orbit. That's basically how completely wrong it feels for the Toa to be carrying these. Great MOC potential, yes. But just the fact it's in the Bionicle plotline makes it so wrong.

Aside from the projectiles, I really dig 2006's and 2007's sets. With the exception of the launchers, I can't help but love it! Strange parts yes, but as I said. It's an integral part of Bionicle! Though I have a minor grievance here and there with the designs, it's a good run thus far. Twin flip blades on Matoro are awesome!

In terms of that "ridiculous" anti-violence policy, I disagree entirely. Anyone who's watched action movies for the past 7 years and read hundreds of "action" fiction books can write a half decent "violent" book. But to actually have a conflict that strives in creating action without having gory details and still manages to intrance and capture the target audience is what really impresses me. Just knowing that they could actually gain from having such contraints just floors me. I admire that ability. And it was that ability that made Bionicle unique. Elemental and melee fighting beyond our imagination (Note, this was pre-Avatar) that genuinely wowed us all.

With that, I close with a clip from Avatar, one which demonstates the effectiveness of non-exessively-violent scenes. Note how all moves in this clip are similar, if not once used by the original six and the Makuta themselves. (Makuta whipped the Toa with tenticles and that was still under non-violent policy)


PS: If this clip isn't allowed, if someone could notify me or remove it before I do would be awesome! I'll be back in a bit less than 12 hours though.  X-D

#68 JINZONINGEN73

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Posted 23 January 2007 - 08:58 AM

Quote

Even Exo-Force, a theme that is loaded with rifles, doesn't even have this. Just picture this for a second. You're invited to a fencing tourney. You're up in the first match. You opponent has his sabre. You decide to nuke the entire venue from orbit. That's basically how completely wrong it feels for the Toa to be carrying these.
Lol... good point. Yeah, Exo-Force goes out there with the heavy weaponry, but the arsenals aren't as lopsided as Barraki animal tossers vs. Toa chaingun.  :-D

If I were to defend it though, I'd say the Barraki are aquatic, fully mobile and cozy inside their element, whereas the Toa need to overcompensate for being fish out of water... well, the opposite of fish out of water.
Kind of like a classic-style, sidescrolling arcade shooter where your ship is hyper  overpowered, but all the swift enemies indigenous to their environment STILL manage to blow you up.
You could jump into the Amazon river with the entire arsenal of your local gun shop, but if there's hungry Piranha in there... your guns are doing SQUAT to save you. And the squid ammo has similarities to Piranha.

But yeah, you're still right as well lol. Outside of the storyline media, it's just kids sitting on the carpet playing war. The toa ARE going to win on that terrain lol.

As for the (tired) anti-violence dealie... how can those who like all the swords be so anti-gun? Both can be used as non-destructive tools, but both are classicly instruments of limb-severing, hole-creating warfare from a distance further than the reach of your fist.
I dunno'.
I'll forever defend their new policy. While some liked the elemental attacks like with the 2001 Toa vs. Makuta, or the stuff in Mask of Light, I personally am too old to like it.
Too many years of seeing kiddy cartoons and anime that have had to abide by hyper-constrictive tv guidelines, having to rely on "magical" things, like if someone "gets really hurt" (dies), then they are magically brought back to life by someone's tears dropping on them.
Or if there WERE guns, noone ever got hit. And if their vehicle got hit, they'd eject or simply fall out.
And perhaps the most overused one is where two guys are aiming guns at each other, then one shoots a cliff overhead to drop rocks on them instead of (duh) just shooting them.

LOL... it's an age thing, I admit it. It's why the Transformers movie from 20 years ago was such a hit among the fans. Gone were the intelligence insulting scenes where there's 900 million laser blasts flying around, hitting noone. Robots were actually getting KILLED, permanently.
(Until they were brought back to life occasionally on later tv episodes).  :-|
Same with the later Beast Wars episodes. In their final season, bots were getting OBLITERATED left and right. And fans nearly undeniably loved that. I know I did.

So yeah, I know where people are coming from on thinking the violence in Lego is bad.
I can respect that. It's a generational culture gap. I grew up barfing at the results from parent groups pressuring cartoon makers into doing the most INANE things to appease them.
I guess people these days, and probably some of you in even more censored countries than America, just don't know where some of us came from.

Oh well. This is all a bit silly. Things only get to a certain point before they return to a previous state.
By that I mean, I have every confidence that these weapons some of us love so much and others hate will eventually disappear again from the line. But for now, awesomeness.

Hey... you know what'd be cool?
If the storyline were to wrap around and return to the 2001 line... but done with today's technology. Imagine Lewa and the rest done up in new parts, fully posable. Same with the Rahi.

Man... that'd be cool.  :-D

Edited by JINZONINGEN 73, 23 January 2007 - 09:21 AM.

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#69 KMOI

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Posted 23 January 2007 - 09:45 PM

Hmm, I see what you mean. I was just guessing that they'd have enough firepower to literally blow the bedrock out of the water, but in the way you put it, it makes some sense! Hope the Barraki don't do anything stupid, like decide to challenge the Mahiri to a final battle on a plateau. It's going to be like Britan vs. Zanzibar! (For non history geeks, check here)

A-hah! I knew it had to be the Transformers movie! Yep, that was one violent (Not to mention tragic) cartoon movie. Practically all the old favorites died within the opening minutes, including the big cheese himself, Optimus Prime. I grew up with Beast Wars, and I know what you mean! The final battle saw unprecidented main character losses. Digimon Tamers was another pretty violent cartoon which set itself apart from the rest of the series. In that thing, there would be one death every episode. At the end, the bodycount was pretty close to a hundred, including the death of a main character and a kill that involved spine snapping.

Though I liked that as much as the next guy, I guess that's where I differ. Wheras you got completely innundated with those horrible, horrible PTA campaigns, I kinda escaped away from it all, hence my liking of non-violent ways. I hardly watch any cartoons these days aside from Avatar, Spongebob or the odd Disney cartoon, but from what I've heard, nobody can stay dead in cartoons these days. As you said, it's always the teardrop that revives someone. Or, in the case of Bionicle, the giant (and overrated) flashlight that is Takanuva.

I certainly hope you're right, Jinz! Well, you most likely are. Afterall, eventually support groups will get tired of launchers or maybe LEGO will run out of ideas for projectiles (I forsee fantastic shoe-launchers in 2008). Then we might see more love for hand weapons. I don't have anything against projectiles in terms of the "violence" level, but I just don't feel it really fits into "Bionicle", ESPECIALLY that chain-gun.

Quote

Hey... you know what'd be cool?
If the storyline were to wrap around and return to the 2001 line... but done with today's technology. Imagine Lewa and the rest done up in new parts, fully posable. Same with the Rahi.


YES. Agreed! I can't tell if you're sarcastic or not, but I'd love to see that. Even if it doesn't have a plot, redesigning the original Toa to match up to the gazillion new teams we've been introduced to would be a dream come true. Same with the Rahi! Back then, they had to make animals out of REGULAR TECHNIC PARTS! But now with all these crazy pieces, I'd love to see them redesign the Rahi. Heck, even if they didn't make them for retail and put them up on display at LEGO stores and imagination centers, I'd be more than happy! To even catch a glimpse of what the originals would look like would make me scream praise for Bionicle for a good two years. If only, right?  :'-(

#70 JINZONINGEN73

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Posted 23 January 2007 - 10:37 PM

Yah, I was serious. But I wonder though... are the "master" Builders at Lego even skilled enough to utilize the current hoard of new parts to pull of recreations of all the first Rahi?
I question it GREATLY.

Even more so, if they could pull it off, chances are their hard work would be obliterated by the money men slimming their designs down to fit the budget and chronological production feasability.

Hmm. This sounds like a mocing project if there ever was one.
If fluoride isn't dangerous, why was it added to the water in the Russian gulags and by the Germans during world war 2 to make the prisoners "apathetic" to what was going on around them?
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#71 Zaktan of the Shadows

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Posted 24 January 2007 - 01:25 AM

They got rid of the policy because kids grow.

-ZotS


#72 Lord Admiral Helden Ravensdorn

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Posted 24 January 2007 - 02:04 AM

Let us recall some epic battles from the MNOLG I.

Infected Lewa vs Onua: Lewa, wearing an infected mask and under the sway of the Makuta, approaches captured villiagers that are doing forced slave labor in a Rahi hive. (Gee, what a kiddy, not-dark story!) Onua busts his way up out of hte earth and engages Lewa in combat.  While you dont actually see them hacking at each other, you do see the ariel view of them trading blows in the dark (including, if you're observant, Lewa jumping way up into the air and coming back down with a stomp). It gives the feel of a tooth-and-nail battle, until Onua is finially thrown into a wall. Then, Onua uses the mask of Telekinesis to throw some rocks and a hoto bug at Lewa. While lewa blocks the rocks, the hoto bug makes it through and knocks the infected mask off. Using the Telekinesis mask again, Onua pulls Lewas proper mask out of the Nui-Ramas claws and back to Lewa, who then takes over the Nui-Rama and helps save the Tohunga out of the hive.

Some of you say, "They didnt use their tools as weapons!". This is true, you never DO see them doing that, though it is implied, as it is in this battle. Some of you say, "The no-violence policy sucked! They didnt DO anything!" This is NOT true in any way. The way I see it, the non-violence policy as well as using the tools as weapons helped make BIONICLE stand out as not your average "hack-n-slash" toy line. The Toa used their weapons primarily to channel their power, and the no-violence policy meant that the battles needed to be structured in such a way so as to make them interesting and engaging but not openly violent, hence the (awesome) Manas battle, where they were defeated by destorying their "leash" towers.

Now, with the violence policy removed and the Toa weilding weapons, you have idiotic crap like Vezon ramming Matoro headfirst into a wall. Oh, how terribly epic! d

Basically, the tool and violence policies forced the writers to be ORIGIONAL. This is nolonger needed, and thus, BIONICLE *IS* degenerating into the average hack-n-slash toyline - it is pretty much already there, now that we have blood and six-shot chainguns.

If I have time, I'll go into a few more battles and make a few more statements later. The point is is that the 2001-2002 storytellers had to write an interesting and engaging (and ENTIRELY CANON) storyline in order to support the sets and attract fans, as opposed to now where all thats needed is tacky gimmicks (Free the Band, anyone?) and 4+ Non-Canon storylines running side-by-side.

You, Jinzo, are misunderstanding us, the "Old Guard", when you think that we want a return to 2001. We dont. What is one of my current projects? Sculpting peices so as to make Movie-Style Toa Nuva with full Inika articulation.  The point is is that 2001 had a feel to it - a feel that could have been continued, and did continue until 2004. Then, GregF came to the fore of the storyteam and pretty much wrecked the place. Now we have a "living, breathing world" where physics dont apply - but magic apparently does -, all villians are your average "Muahhaha, I are bad!" comic book villians, all 3,000 heroes have been cut out with 6 different colored cookie cutters, Toa die like your average rank-and-file grunts from an RTS videogame, everyone has about twenty powers most of which revolve around lasers and could all utterly obliterate the enemy, except apparently Toa are too polite to kill anyone, and no-one can do anything epic unless they're a toa or have some manner of weapon.

Because kids grow? I was pretty young when Bionicle came out. I'm a mostly-fully-grown adolescant now. Guess which years I despise, and would despise had I found out about bionicle just last year?

[/rant]

#73 JINZONINGEN73

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Posted 24 January 2007 - 07:40 AM

While I don't agree that the fighting in Mask of Light was anything resembling "tooth and nail" action I do agree that the "feel" of Bionicle 2001 was lost.
The violence in the flash games was presented most adequately.

The movie pretty much is where I started hating it.

They never should have ditched all those clever, funny, brave, nearly mute Matoran from the original flash movies. The originality you speak of was that the heroes weren't really the focus, more the citizens.
Even I don't like the story or characters as it is now.
I am glad that there's TRULY life or death fighting going on, but without character developement, you're right. It's just brainless action.

I got the Lego magazines with the comics inside.
This is all I take from it:

"HI! The matoran are screwed or dead and we're the bad guys and we hate each other! Yarrrrrr!"
Another issue: "It's the Toa busting in on the scene, yarrrrrrr!"
"Oh no, someone more powerful! Yarrrrrrrr!"

It's more like a 5 minute, poorly written Saturday Night Live sketch where they're incoherently spoofing some chain of events that took place over the course of months.

But still, as far as sets and their part content goes, I'm all for the bloody weapons and chainguns.
If they do make a return to "tool" tools, then I hope they're sculpted nice enough and / or have some clever translucent mixing of the colors to make them interesting.
You might have thought the "elemental channeling" was clever, but to me, it's just more of the touchy-feely stuff seen a million times over to avoid actual fighting taking place in cartoons.
If Tahu's super-charged while channeling fire, make the sword trans red. If Kopaka's sword is icy, clear. Gali, blue... etc etc.

Having a Bionicle action figure holding a shovel, while sitting next to an entire aisle of other normal action figures... something has to be done to make it stick out, be it a gigantic gatling gun, clear weapons, or glow in the dark. Failing that, there better be some DAMN fine storytelling which has created excitement over the characters enough to get them anyway.

And you're right... that's not there.

Whether or not that's solely the fault of GregF or not, it honestly beats the hell outta' me... though it wouldn't be an amazing shock.

Edited by JINZONINGEN 73, 24 January 2007 - 07:48 AM.

If fluoride isn't dangerous, why was it added to the water in the Russian gulags and by the Germans during world war 2 to make the prisoners "apathetic" to what was going on around them?
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#74 Lord Admiral Helden Ravensdorn

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Posted 24 January 2007 - 02:19 PM

View PostJINZONINGEN 73, on Jan 24 2007, 02:40 AM, said:

While I don't agree that the fighting in Mask of Light was anything resembling "tooth and nail" action I do agree that the "feel" of Bionicle 2001 was lost.
The violence in the flash games was presented most adequately.

I dont recall saying anything about the Mask of Light...? Even *I* thought that movie sucked, and the action most certainly wasnt "tooth and nail"...

The movie pretty much is where I started hating it.

In all truth, I started hating it when the Nuva transformed. I saw no need for it (Not being knowlagable about marketing back then and all) and I thought the Nuva - the masks and legs in particular - were just bone UGLY. But yes, I see your point.

They never should have ditched all those clever, funny, brave, nearly mute Matoran from the original flash movies. The originality you speak of was that the heroes weren't really the focus, more the citizens.
Even I don't like the story or characters as it is now.
I am glad that there's TRULY life or death fighting going on, but without character developement, you're right. It's just brainless action.

Brainless action with brainless characters. I DID notice how you said "I watch anime" - Thats probably in reference to KMOI and I, right? :P Only speaking for myself, this is because Bleach has lots of violence and lots of life-or-death action but even now - with its 112th episode coming out today - its STILL got an interesting storyline with interesting characters and a ton of very interesting powers fighting for interesting goals. Each character has his or her own story and its all about personalitys interacting and powers clashing. GregF's "Action" is just these bland, cookie-cutter comic book heroes and villians wailing on each other, like Zaktan or whoever cutting open Nuparus shoulder, etc. Its just bland violence for the sake of violence, poorly portrayed and poorly coreographed. Nobody has any PERSONALITY - its just powers now. Notice how not a single Inika, when they came out in the Lego Shop at Home, has ANY personality traits in their profile? Just powers.

I got the Lego magazines with the comics inside.
This is all I take from it:

"HI! The matoran are screwed or dead and we're the bad guys and we hate each other! Yarrrrrr!"
Another issue: "It's the Toa busting in on the scene, yarrrrrrr!"
"Oh no, someone more powerful! Yarrrrrrrr!"

Yarrrr!

It's more like a 5 minute, poorly written Saturday Night Live sketch where they're incoherently spoofing some chain of events that took place over the course of months.

Lets not forget the plot device so nice he used it twice ;)

But still, as far as sets and their part content goes, I'm all for the bloody weapons and chainguns.
If they do make a return to "tool" tools, then I hope they're sculpted nice enough and / or have some clever translucent mixing of the colors to make them interesting.
You might have thought the "elemental channeling" was clever, but to me, it's just more of the touchy-feely stuff seen a million times over to avoid actual fighting taking place in cartoons.
If Tahu's super-charged while channeling fire, make the sword trans red. If Kopaka's sword is icy, clear. Gali, blue... etc etc.

I *will* agree with you on this point. The Olda DID have freakin' weapons for the most part, and Onua, Lewa, and Kopaka were clearly portrayed in the MNOLG as using them as such. However, the fact that the emphasis is no-longer on elemental powers but rather lightning and lasers (How the hell does a lightning/stone mix work?) and other flashy gimmicks is what gets to me.

Having a Bionicle action figure holding a shovel, while sitting next to an entire aisle of other normal action figures... something has to be done to make it stick out, be it a gigantic gatling gun, clear weapons, or glow in the dark. Failing that, there better be some DAMN fine storytelling which has created excitement over the characters enough to get them anyway.

And you're right... that's not there.

Exactly. It was the story and the universe that got me into Bioncle. I still remember it, clear as day - It was the second day of being up at the Carlisle import and replicar nationals car show... we go every year as vendors and st ay for four days... my mom and sister came up and brought the new magazine for me that had just arrived... it had the first Bionicle comic. I read through it all day and all night and proceeded to SCULPT myself a Pohatu, Kopaka and Matoro out of some clay I brought along, making Kopakas sword out of two straws taped together with the ends cut to form a blade. Nothing in the story today could EVER generate that kind of excitement - and my core point, in the end, is that it STILL could do that, but doesnt becuase Greg, and whatever shattered bits of the story team are left, have very little skill left at story-crafting.

Whether or not that's solely the fault of GregF or not, it honestly beats the hell outta' me... though it wouldn't be an amazing shock.

Meh... From everything i've seen, its mostly Greg's fault. He's the one who writes the books and sets the scene. He's the one who forced Bionicle into being a "living breathing world". He, IMHO, shattered pretty much my absolute favorite toyline story (The set designers are something else all together) and one of my fondest childhood toys that i've played with for going on 7 years now, just to suit the whims of an idiotic "Target Audience" that would eat whatever he fed it anyway. I stand by my statement; he is a hack, and for that, I cannot forgive him.


#75 Darkness Falls

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Posted 24 January 2007 - 09:31 PM

Trust me, I totally feel where you're coming from. I was amazed at Bionicle when I first laid eyes on Tahu and Onua, and in the discount bin, no less. I thought Throwbots had gone freaky. Then I popped in that little disk and the Legend began.

But if you want that feeling, you shouldn't get your hopes up. Every time something begins, it will be a let down henceforth. Transformers: people don't feel the toys are modern vehicles anymore. Avatar: Many say that the first season set up the basis of a great story, but now it's flat.

Bionicle is no different. However, all sets from the Mata-nui saga were great, and no matter how clone-esque, they expressed important storyline significance. If we didn't have half the storyline ruined for us in the first five weeks of the year, perhaps these years would be better. Still, if you want a storyline you like, make one up. They are role-play sets, after all.

Another thing I'm displeased with is the setting change. On the commercials, they're not even fighting in a good environment anymore. Ooooo, a giant black room with mechanics in it. A chain-link fence? What were they thinking?

That's what I like about the new Barraki trailer. Underwater, and a great shrine made of stone? I got an '01 feeling from that. I enjoyed 2001 because of the huge statues of Toa heads, the mysterious landscapes, caves... that whole shadow in the background.

The BionicleStory video was impressive, mysterious. It reminds me of the old days. I'll wait and see.




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