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UCS 10221 Super Star Destroyer [MOD]


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#1 GeOrc

GeOrc

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 09:27 PM

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Hi all,
I´m new to this board and beside some questions in the LDD area and here in some SSD topics this is is my first own topic.
I will present here my UCS 10221 Super Star Destroyer. I purchased this massive vessel some weeks ago and the last weekend I took a whole saturday for its construction. After quitting with LEGO Space 20 years ago this is ship brought me back into the hobby. The construction was a lot of fun and I felt again like a child building space crafts on the floor. The only difference was that me knees hurt like hell after 8 hours of building but some beer and pizzas helped me through the day. I think this day I will always remember, so I have to say thank you LEGO for this amazing memory.
Here some pictures of my new living room decoration:

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Allready before building the destroyer I read here through the topics and I found some awesome conversions of this ship for example from Mortsev and scratch build vessels for example from Skyen. Even if it is an awesome model it has its weaknesses.
I really love the super star destroyer and it´s my favorite piece of the star wars universe. I can´t say how often I watched The empire strikes back because of this awesome model. Being very succesful in the model hobby (Fantasy miniatures) since 12 years now I often thought about building my own SSD using one of the existing resin kits or building one from scratch. That´s why I already collected a lot of references and read through a lot of model sites. While a real model can be very close to original model miniature the LEGO one is limited by the shape of the existing pieces, being conctructable and a lot of other compromisses made for offering a sellable product.
A lot of compromisses on the model I don´t like. I won´t go into detail because these have been discussed here in the board several times. Also some very talented members here have modified their SSDs or build theirs from scratch. I have to mention here the on from Mortesv which I like the most. It still based on much of the original miniature while a lot of the "bad" parts have been replaced and with each iteration the miniature has come closer to the original fil model.
This MOD is so inspiring that I decieded to try to modify my own SSD. Becuase beeing new in the hobby and having less experience my second decission is to follow the modifications Mortesv has made. He already supported me by answering a lot of questions and I hope with his help I will get an awesome MOD and that be both can develop the SSD further and together take it on the next level.

Here a link to Mortesv topics which are truely inspirational:

http://www.eurobrick...1

http://www.eurobrick...showtopic=66846

I decieded starting with adding a new bottom. Therefore I constructed the Mortesv conversion in LDD for getting an idea what parts are needed:

Attached File  SSD - MOD - Bottom Hull.lxf   12.44K   160 downloads

I followed his description in his topic. removed the hull plates, constructed the new bottom and added it to the frame:

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It looked much better than the original flat bottom. Nethertheless I feel a lot of stability has gone. Also the conversion makes a lot of other conversions necessary. Also my design has some weaknesses. I don´t know how mortensv has solved these problems but I hope he will find this topic and will help me again with his advice. Some general Problems with the new hull plate:

First I have to say that Mortensv construction is very brilliant. I didn´t though that it would be taht easy reconstruct it and put it on the frame. Unfortunatly the plate is very thin and consists only of one plate fixed by one row additional plates. Especially beside of the hangar the connections are very weak. Therfore I decided to strongen the construction by adding one additional row of 1 x ? bricks to get the hole thing more stability. I ask myself if it wouldn´t be possible to add a complete second layer of plates for adding the whole thing more stability. Additionally this would give the bottom plate more the look similar to the top plate. a problem could be that the connections hinges could have problems with the additional weight. But I think it is worth a try.

Now some more specific problems with my design. In these cases I don´t know how mortensv solved these problems because detail pictures are missing. I hope the discussion here will help to refine these areas.

1.) The snout:

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I was able to put back the top of the trench which I think Mortensv has replaced or leaved. Unfortunatly the snoutof my SSD brace in all directions. The last hinges of the bottom hull are in a very large distance to the snout so that the hole top has much instability. I´m looking forward for your ideas how this problem could be solved.

2.) The tail fin towards the engine section:

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In the moment it is missing. Unfortunatly mortensv didn´t include it in his pictures there he showed the assembled bottom hull. I also don´t know how and where he fixed it. This part I have to add next. Also very confusing is the connection of the column with the ship. I tryed to convert it similar to Mortensv modifications but when doing so the hull is pushed nearly flat towards the ship.I didn´t changed it´s position, perhaps there is need for this and also enlarge the distance between columns and the hull. Also I don´t like the cut out necessary for the column. By adding more space between column and ship it is perhaps possible to go with the original design of the columns or at least identical modified columns. I think this part is an area for further development of the MOD

3.) The Hangar Bay:

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In the moment it´s an ugly whole in the bottom. On this pic you can see the additional row of bricks I added on the inside of the hull plate for adding more stability. I think the Hangar Bay offers also a lot of possibilities for further development of the MOD. In the moment it is closed very badly. I didn´t know hoe Mortensv solved this problem. Also his whole modifications concerning lowering the city are some mystery for me. On his pictures I wasn´t able to reproduce which plates he has leaved or replaced and how he closed the hangar bay with dark grey plates. I hope he can send some better pictures. Nethertheless the ne hull plate offers the possibility adding a nice hangar bay and I´m thinking about how best to install this. Snot down like on the engine section fitting now to the hull or going with snot up fitting  towards the actual direction of the hull plates. Some ideas?

At end a further close up of the new hull:

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I think it looks so much better compared to the original one. I´m looking forward solving the remaining problems to get a nice overall look. A big thank you to Mortensv for the research and his inspirationl work and you for reading and hopefully for your feedback.

Let me know what you think,

Kind Regards
Georg

#2 mortesv

mortesv

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 12:01 PM

Looking good GeOrc!!

I’m very flattered by your project, and your progress looks excellent :wub:

1. Regarding the snout, I have removed the old “center tip” and simply extended the A-frame a bit. From here on it gets a bit tricky. I have placed a 1 x 1 brick with a singe side stud, bottom up on the lower hull plates. When placed correctly the side stud will just “hang” on the backside of the extended A-frame. This is kind of a hack but with so little room, there were no space for any more stable hinge solution.

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2. The tail fin construction is a little hard to explain (because I cant remember exactly what I did), but it is not that difficult to make. I think I used the 12 x 3 wedges already there (don’t remember if I tweaked their height). I used these to attach hinges on which the two fins sits.

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As you speculate I have increased the distance between the bottom hull and the top of the backmost column. This also meant that I had to put an extra layer of plates beneath the front leg.

3. Actually I have just received a shipment of this brick http://www.bricklink...tem.asp?P=11203 to help tidy up the bay area. :sweet:


4. Lowering the city is a bit tricky. I actually lowered the engine module about 1 plate as well - which entailed some work...
I began by removing the layer of tiles below the minifig brigde. Then I removed all plates at that “height”. The backmost middle city area with the command tower I removed the bottom layer of bricks attached to the technic bars and replaced them with a single layer of plates.

Keep it up and let the questions keep coming! :)
The secret to a happy life is finding the right balance...
          - between your Lego and discussing with Aeroeza!

#3 GeOrc

GeOrc

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    Joined: 04-November 12
    Member: 32823

Posted 18 November 2012 - 02:59 PM

Hi Morten,
many many thanks for your help and advice!! And many thanks for your kind words.

At first I want take care for the fin tail because it is the part missing and that annoyed me the most in the moment. I carefully studied your pictures and it took me a while understanding what you have done there. But now I thnink I got it. One problem of my design was removing the 3 x 12 wing plates from the old hull which (if I understand right) you used as a frame for your construction. I´m also not so shure where you extended the space between column and hull by one plate. That´s why I have rebuilded the whole part in LDD:

Attached File  tail fin.lxf   13.91K   95 downloads

Parts in which I´m not shure I have marked in red. It would be very nice if you could take a look at it and if you would give me some feedback and correction tips. Many thanks in advance!

Kind Regards
Georg

Edited by GeOrc, 18 November 2012 - 03:00 PM.


#4 mortesv

mortesv

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 03:41 PM

Hi Georg,

your tail fin seem to be on the right track :thumbup: . The trick here is trying to line up the angle you get from the new bottom with the tail. When making this alignment you see whether it will be necessary to lower the 3 x 12 wedges or not. But when I think about it, I think I lowered everything back there 1 plate...

It looks as though you have enough bricks to take the tail into production - then you'll get a better overview of what you need to order. :wink:

Regarding your other design - which I find very interesting, there are some issues, but I think they could be overcome. One way of going about it could be to drop the legs entirely and make a string system and simply have to model hanging from the ceiling. I know it is a bit crazy, but if pulled off it would look amazing :wub:
On the other hand having the model simply rest on the legs could also be done, but it would require a lot of stability of the bottom - at an angle that would be quite a challenge. A quick note - in terms of stability of the entire model, I have only removed plating that was "in my way". Thus some of the core of the flat bottom still exist and creates some stability.

Keep it up - talk to you soon

Cheers

Morten
The secret to a happy life is finding the right balance...
          - between your Lego and discussing with Aeroeza!

#5 GeOrc

GeOrc

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    Member: 32823

Posted 25 November 2012 - 01:55 PM

Hi Morten,
here is my progress after a further session of modding the SSD. This time I concentrated on the tail fin and some modifications in the engine section. Because I had to open again the complete hull I also rearranged the snout of the destroyer. Thanks to your advice it was no problem to replace the original part with an enlargement of the A-frame structure! Additionally I added two layers of the bottom plates extracted in the first session for adding some stability. It needed some time for getting the right amount and in enough distance to the hull plates and therefore free of conflicting with them. I plan something similar to the hanger opening for filling the gap. Thispropably will make it necessary to extract the single row of plates I added to your design for gaining more stability in the top area. You can see this row in this picture:

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I think I had to remove them again to have enough space for a closed hangar bay plate. Therefore my plan for a second layer of hull plates takes more and more shape. Here an LDD File which visualize the combination of hull and hangar bay:

Attached File  SSD - MOD - Bottom Hull_rebuild-GD.lxf   18.17K   96 downloads

The disign is a bit to large in the moment butI think something in this direction could work. How you can see there is enough space in the back area of the hangar bay:

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The main Problem will be the the top area. Therefore the bottom plate have to be small and "just" fitting would work best. You can see also That I have 3 plates distance between hangar and the column. How much space you have there? Also can you perhaps add a picture how your bay area looks in the moment for comparisson? Here the rear column:

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How you can see on the column modification there is still this one plate missing you changed. With help of your pictures I tried to find out there you have added this one additional plate but can´t finde ist. In my opinion I had done similar to you, but I see the difference in the column which will only fit lowering the whole thing by one plate and as well I can see it on the fin tail which reveals a much bigger gap than I can see comparing it with your pics:

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Perhaps you can take an other look at my tail-fin.lxf file and compare it with your design. The 12 x 3 wedge plates and the fence based all on their original position. Somethere you have lowered the whole construction but I can´t find.

Your tail section is also a part full of questions. The gap between top hull plate and engine section / tail is still big and mine looks still bigger than yours even with your added modifications. Here a close up pic:

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Do you also have a gap left between these parts? Also I had problems with some of your additions. In your pics it looks like the inclined surface hits exactly the engine. Also it looks like you fixed it on the hull otherwise, cause your angle had a sharper decline. How you can see in the pic I wasn´t able to reproduce that. Same same for your added element before the one which holds your inclined surface. I can recognize of which parts it consists but I have no idea how you fixed it on the ship?!?

The more I deal with your design and your modifications I recognize how much passion and creativity you put into this. I´m getting more and more respect for your skills. It´s already hard to follow your path, unbelivable how much passion and patience it needed to create it!
Many thanks again for sharing your work and your support

Kind Regards
Georg

#6 mortesv

mortesv

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 02:15 AM

Hi Georg
At first I thought you were just reposting my own pictures – then I realized that they were yours and that you have faithfully recreated much of my detailing. I’m very flattered :blush:
I want to reply as thorough as possible, but I am not at home at the moment, so no pictures. I’ll get you some as soon as I get home, but here goes:

Regarding lowering the back. I can’t remember exactly what I did, but I do know it had something to do with actually raising the front leg 1 plate. This results in having to put 1 plate between the top of the back leg and the hull.

At the same time I lowered the two sections, which the bottom engines are attached to – as well as lowering the section, which the other engines are attached to. Then I raised the middle engines (when looking form the side) 1 plate. All of this is takes a bit of time to figure out and requires a bit of tweaking of the back area.

The gap between engines and top hull can be minimized by systematically identifying the resting points of the top hull plates. Once found, you simply remove the bricks at these resting points – especially at the tail of the ship. This way you’ll also lower the profile of the entire ship. Remember, before you do this you must have lowered the entire city as I explained in an earlier comment.

A quick note there is that I have elongated the tail of the ship (and the city) 3 studs, which helps the length of the tail be more proportioned with the length of the ship.
Lastly building the bottom as you have done in the lfx file would be really awesome, but will you hang it from the ceiling? :)

Will get you some pics soon!
Keep it up!

Morten
The secret to a happy life is finding the right balance...
          - between your Lego and discussing with Aeroeza!

#7 GeOrc

GeOrc

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    Joined: 04-November 12
    Member: 32823

Posted 04 December 2012 - 09:12 AM

 mortesv, on 27 November 2012 - 02:15 AM, said:

Hi Georg
At first I thought you were just reposting my own pictures – then I realized that they were yours and that you have faithfully recreated much of my detailing. I’m very flattered :blush:
I want to reply as thorough as possible, but I am not at home at the moment, so no pictures. I’ll get you some as soon as I get home, but here goes:

How I have said, I love your creation and think you have showed a very good design which improves the model without building a completly new and different one!

Thankk you for your further advice. I hope you will post the above mentioned pictures :)

Some notes,
I think I started to understand the lowering the city process! In the beginning I thought you did this to change the silouette of the city. But after this comment:

Quote

The gap between engines and top hull can be minimized by systematically identifying the resting points of the top hull plates. Once found, you simply remove the bricks at these resting points – especially at the tail of the ship. This way you’ll also lower the profile of the entire ship. Remember, before you do this you must have lowered the entire city as I explained in an earlier comment.

I think you did this because lowering the city was necessary to change the angle of the top hull plates and closing the gap between top hull and tail. Correct??

Regarding:

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At the same time I lowered the two sections, which the bottom engines are attached to – as well as lowering the section, which the other engines are attached to. Then I raised the middle engines (when looking form the side) 1 plate. All of this is takes a bit of time to figure out and requires a bit of tweaking of the back area.

I think this part wouldn´t be to diffucuilt to rebuilt. Just lowering the connection plates the engine section hang on?

More difficult is still this part:

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Regarding lowering the back. I can’t remember exactly what I did, but I do know it had something to do with actually raising the front leg 1 plate. This results in having to put 1 plate between the top of the back leg and the hull.

I will go again through your pictures and try to identify were you raised the whole thing by this plate. My column modification and the sourranding is completly identical to your design. So the change you made have to be in the basic structure of the original ship bottom.raising everything visible by the new plate otherwise I would have identified it. Perhaps you can take a closer look at the "tail fin" LDD file and compare it with your ship. The plate have to be missing in the LDD design, because it reflects the whole tail fin including the column link.

The last thing I redisgned by your pictures were the middle engines. These are beside the pipe structure element of the engine section my moste favorite design. Especially I love the cooling fin design made of tooth plates you created there. Totally awesome!! Again I rebuild it best by what was visible on your pictures.
.
Some questions
- what bricks are hidden behind the three cooling fins?
- is there a 1 x 2 plate behind the angular bricks which hold the taps
- do you put the 2 x 2 round plate in the old position or moved it by one stud?

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Lastly building the bottom as you have done in the lfx file would be really awesome, but will you hang it from the ceiling? :)

For shure I will strenghten the hull plates when working next time on the hangar bay. I don´t know if I will go at once with the closed design and try the hanging position but I think further or later I will try the hanging it from the ceiling ;)
But step by step. I have learned a lot following your steps and I think there is more to learn :)
Thanks for your support and your advice!

Kind Regards,
Georg



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