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LOTR & The Hobbit 2013 Set Discussion

LOTR 2013 Lord of the Rings

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#326 jhc2nmfn

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 01:25 PM

I think lotr could do alot with a ucs series or "middle earth architecture" series. Personally i plan on buying every hobbit/lotr set thats released. There are many structures and cities that will be hard to make at a minifig playable scale. Think of sites like minas morgul, minas tirith, the kings of old statues (argonath I think), lothrien, rivendell, bared dur and the eye, what is the name of the city that gandalf finds thrain in prior to the hobbit dol guidar(though iv been told it will be included in the first movie), and even osgiliath and im sure im missing some. All these are amazing structures in the movies and it'd be a shame not to see them at all.

#327 yogurt

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 07:46 PM

Do you mean Dol Guldor?

#328 randomuser

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 07:57 PM

okay well I hate to do it but i have to ruin your reasoning behind ucs theory. When moster fighters came out only a couple month later they started selling the Haunted House which even though is not a traditional "ucs" set it has a 10 at the beginning of the product number which slaps it in the same genre as ucs and has a price tag of 180, also in January they are coming out with arkham asylum for the DC super hero line, again it has a 10 at the beginning and has a price tag over 150 and the dc line has not been out long either. So anymore lego doesnt really care about how long the line is out they just make whatever is going to sell. Secondly it is going to be the main set of the line because of the fact that is in the main gallery display plan where only big ticket items go, bigger than a helms deep set so we can assume its going to be a 10 series ucs style set

#329 Deathleech

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 09:03 PM

View PostFaefrost, on 11 December 2012 - 03:25 AM, said:

As for what makes me say this? Just looking at Legos history. Yes they have Helms Deep and Uruk Hai that link, but the others don't. Interconnecting Lego sets of that type are rare, and often seem like experiments (Jabba's Palace and Rancor?) and we know hey don't often seem to go together. ( how many Battle of Hoth sets have we gotten? How many interconnect?)

I asked that because you mentioned seven different sets all based on the Minas Tirith location with none of them connecting.  I know you were probably just rattling off possible ideas, but I don't see Lego devoting more than 3 or 4 sets tops to Minas Tirith (at least initially).  There is just too much material in the LotR trilogy to cover.  Plus some of those ideas just don't seem very appealing to children.  Pippin lighting the beacon might be a fun set for adults, but for kids?  I think not.  What does a kid do with it?  It might have a cool feature to mimick the torch being lit but beyond that its very limited in scope.  Especially when Lego could be offering a Witch King and Fel Beast set that you KNOW kids would eat up.  What kid doesn't want a big black dragon like creature?!

And yes there have been a lot of Hoth sets with very few/any that connect, but also keep in mind they are from the Star Wars line that has been on going for over a decade and may were updated or re-imagined versions.  Also keep in mind they cover an entire planet, not one centralized location like Minas Tirith (Wampa Cave, Echo Base, etc.)


View PostGryphon Ink, on 11 December 2012 - 02:25 PM, said:

I really think TLG will just not even try to do all of Minas Tirith.  As everyone has noted, even a $200 set would not do the city justice at minifig scale.  It would probably look a bit ridiculous, and TLG are smart enough to not walk into that trap.  It would be a lot better for them to only do the bits and pieces that they can do accurately, like the front gate.  So my prediction would be that around the end of this theme, we will see a $150-200 "Siege of the White City" set that includes the gate, a couple of wall sections, a troll-powered trebuchet and a winged Nazgul.  Behind the outer wall, one taller wall construction will suggest MT's signature "prow" shape to give it some depth and make it more playable, but it will not try to represent the whole city.  Everyone will gnash their teeth and scream "but we need all of Minas Tirith", but I bet they could make this a set that we would all like.

I wouldn't completely rule out the possibility of a UCS set, but I don't think TLG will rush down that road just yet.

I am sure Lego will make a Minas Tirith set eventually if the line does well enough.  I mean it is one of the biggest battles in the LotR films, it has too much importance to just pass up.  For Lego to completely neglect it up for fear of failure would be silly.  There are plenty of ways Lego could do a Minas Tirith set justice, they just have to be careful and smart about it.  I do realize that we probably won't get all seven levels of the city (and people will complain no matter what Lego does), but Lego could easily do 2-3 levels and then the front gate and top since nothing really specific happens on most of the other levels of the city.  That way they have literally just halved the size of the set, while still keeping all the important aspects and still making it look a lot like Minas Tirith from the films.

As for a USC I have no idea if Lego will do it or not.  I am sure they will if the line is popular enough.  There are tons of locations that would make perfect USC sets.


View PostCrownie, on 11 December 2012 - 04:18 PM, said:

Does anyone else get the feeling that this summer wave of LOTR will likely be the last we see? I keep seeing this smaller wave of 4-6 sets being released along with a somewhat small wave 2 for the Hobbit in the winter(now that Mirkwood and Barrels have been taken out of the release). Maybe half a dozen sets for the last summer Hobbit wave in 2013, and then nothing.

I guess my gut feeling is that the Hobbit movie isn't going to be all that well received. I'm sure it will recoup it's production costs no doubt, but I'm not sure it will be the surefire hit that many are hoping for. I wish I had some sort of concrete evidence to present, but really it's just my gut instinct. A bit depressing really. Also, the large amount of LOTR sets still on shelves across the country seems to indicate that - at a retail level anyway - the sets are not selling as quickly as hoped. I'm not sure the release of the Hobbit will increase the sales of these sets as many have speculated. :sceptic:

I'm keeping my fingers crossed in any event, though I'm a bit afraid to set my hopes too high.

I do wish they would promote the Hobbit film a little more.  I read the other day it's the most expensive movie ever made at $270 million, yet there hasn't been a ton of publicity it seems (not near as much as for crappy Twilight, or Harry Potter).  Only time will tell how well it does though.  As for the LotR/Hobbit Lego sets I do feel they are selling relatively well since I check the shelves regularly and notice the sets selling (no Orc Forge left at my local Target, TRU had 5 Unexpected Gathering the first time I saw them, went in a day later and only 2 left).  Are the selling as well as some of Lego's other properties?  Probably not, but then again I see Lego Friends and Ninjago on the shelves all the time and we know what hits they are.

I said before I don't think LotR is selling maybe quite as well as Lego had anticipated.  Then again I have no idea what they expected from this theme.  I would assume they are smart enough to know it's a more adult oriented line and has no media backing it to the same degree Star Wars does.  I also don't think the line is doing bad at all, I just don't think it's a huge block buster like Star Wars was but again, that shouldn't be a surprise to anyone all things considered.


View Postjhc2nmfn, on 11 December 2012 - 08:37 PM, said:

Which 4 sets did the dutch toy store announce? Pirate ship, eagles nest and I thought there were 2 more but I don't remember them.

Then brickset is saying the pirate ship, black gate and what?

Some random guy first rummoed 8 sets being released in March 2013 with an $80 Orthanc set, a $60 Treebeard one, and a $40 Balrog.  Then the German toy site reported 4 sets being released in June/summer 2013 and the names were Pirate Ship, Eagle's Nest, Frodo and Ringwraith, and a third set not named (just a number given).  The latest news we have from Brickset/Youtube lists 4 sets again, this time Elrond's Council, Pirate Ship Ambush, Wizard Duel, and the Black Gates.  I would say Brickset probably is the most reputable/likely, with the first guys rumored sets being the least.

#330 Artanis I

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 01:17 AM

View Postyogurt, on 12 December 2012 - 07:46 PM, said:

Do you mean Dol Guldor?
Or Dol Guldur :wink:

View Postjhc2nmfn, on 12 December 2012 - 01:25 PM, said:

I think lotr could do alot with a ucs series or "middle earth architecture" series. Personally i plan on buying every hobbit/lotr set thats released. There are many structures and cities that will be hard to make at a minifig playable scale. Think of sites like minas morgul, minas tirith, the kings of old statues (argonath I think), lothrien, rivendell, bared dur and the eye, what is the name of the city that gandalf finds thrain in prior to the hobbit dol guidar(though iv been told it will be included in the first movie), and even osgiliath and im sure im missing some. All these are amazing structures in the movies and it'd be a shame not to see them at all.
Architecture style sets might work for those huge buildings, good point. The obvious one you've missed is Orthanc.
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#331 Dr.Cogg

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 07:36 AM

the poly bag Gandalf is supposed to be in Dol Guldor.

#332 Gryphon Ink

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 02:27 PM

View PostDeathleech, on 12 December 2012 - 09:03 PM, said:

I am sure Lego will make a Minas Tirith set eventually if the line does well enough.  I mean it is one of the biggest battles in the LotR films, it has too much importance to just pass up.  For Lego to completely neglect it up for fear of failure would be silly.

It would be silly indeed, which is why I didn't say that.  I said they would make a big flagship set of the battle.  I just don't think they will do the city the way you are anticipating/hoping.  I really think you're underestimating the expense of a big set that looks like the whole city.  This is not an AT-AT or a modular house, or a single castle like Helm's Deep.  It's a massive city built into a 1000-foot cliff.  If they can make a minifig-scale set that looks even remotely like it and costs less than $300, I will be truly amazed.

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I do wish they would promote the Hobbit film a little more.  I read the other day it's the most expensive movie ever made at $270 million, yet there hasn't been a ton of publicity it seems (not near as much as for crappy Twilight, or Harry Potter).

POTC: At World's End is estimated to be the most expensive movie ever, costing at least $300 million and possibly as much as $334 million to produce.  AUJ's "official" production budget is $250 million, and there are a bunch of movies that cost more than that, especially if you adjust for inflation.
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#333 UsernameMDM

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 02:50 PM

Battle packs.  I really want to see battle packs!

#334 Deathleech

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 06:00 PM

View PostGryphon Ink, on 13 December 2012 - 02:27 PM, said:

It would be silly indeed, which is why I didn't say that.  I said they would make a big flagship set of the battle.  I just don't think they will do the city the way you are anticipating/hoping.  I really think you're underestimating the expense of a big set that looks like the whole city.  This is not an AT-AT or a modular house, or a single castle like Helm's Deep.  It's a massive city built into a 1000-foot cliff.  If they can make a minifig-scale set that looks even remotely like it and costs less than $300, I will be truly amazed.

I said they would definitely scale it down and only include 2-3 levels plus the very top with the Citadel and White Tree.  That's a given no matter how the decide to handle a Minas Tirith set.  That way you still get the overall look and feel of Minas Tirith, it's just smaller and more cost saving (and eliminates redundant levels the average person wouldn't really care about).  I don't think they will even bother with the mountain it's built into, it will probably just have an open back like Helm's Deep and a lot of the buildings Lego does (Arkham Asylum, Daily Bugel to name a new ones).  I mean look at Helm's Deep for example, it is also built into a mountain as well and has a whole underground cave/mine that Lego didn't even try to tackle.  Granted Minas Tirith is also built into a mountain, but ya.  I am sure Lego will do the same with Minas Tirith and leave lots of the smaller details out to save money and make the set a more reasonable price.  I am sure it will also cost a fair bit more than Helm's Deep.

I think Nuju Metra did an AMAZING job making a realistic MOC of it that Lego might do.  If you haven't checked out his thread, I would suggest doing so.  He estimated the set costing $250.  I dunno if this is a realistic number or not, but I do know you could easily get rid of the 2 catapults and Fel Beast he included and shave off anywhere from 50-100 bucks.  These things could be added later in another normal set or an army/castle builder like the Uruk-hai Army set.  Ideally I would of liked to see one more city level, but if it's too expensive what he did would still work great.  Regardless Lego has tons of routes they could go with Minas Tirith (one huge $400 D2C set, a couple big sets that attach, one large $150-200 flagship set with accompanying army builder/castle builder, etc.), and I hope they do the set justice.


Quote

POTC: At World's End is estimated to be the most expensive movie ever, costing at least $300 million and possibly as much as $334 million to produce.  AUJ's "official" production budget is $250 million, and there are a bunch of movies that cost more than that, especially if you adjust for inflation.

That is probably so.  I just took the info from an article I read the other day stating that it ended up costing 270 million for the first Hobbit film, and the second two are going to cost another 270 million making it the most expensive trilogy to date.  Of course if you include inflation that changes things, just like when you are figuring gross movie income.  My point wasn't it's the most expensive movie ever made, I just was adding that in because I thought it was an interesting fact, my point was for such an expensive film it doesn't seem to be getting a ton of hype or media attention which is disappointing.  I have seen one billboard and maybe 2-3 commercials total vs when that last Twilight movie came out and I was bombard every 20 minutes with something promoting the movie.

#335 Faefrost

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 11:47 PM

View PostDeathleech, on 13 December 2012 - 06:00 PM, said:



I think Nuju Metra did an AMAZING job making a realistic MOC of it that Lego might do.  If you haven't checked out his thread, I would suggest doing so.  He estimated the set costing $250.  I dunno if this is a realistic number or not, but I do know you could easily get rid of the 2 catapults and Fel Beast he included and shave off anywhere from 50-100 bucks.  These things could be added later in another normal set or an army/castle builder like the Uruk-hai Army set.  Ideally I would of liked to see one more city level, but if it's too expensive what he did would still work great.  Regardless Lego has tons of routes they could go with Minas Tirith (one huge $400 D2C set, a couple big sets that attach, one large $150-200 flagship set with accompanying army builder/castle builder, etc.), and I hope they do the set justice.


That is a fantastic set design. Heck they could probably trim a few elements, from it to bring the price down under $200, which would make it more viable for mass retail. Then offer those trimmed pieces as other sets. ( Witch King set. Trim 2 Gondorians and 2 orcs and offer them in a wall expander set like the Uruk Hai army etc).


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#336 just2good

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 12:06 AM

I really think set number 79009 will be an exclusive that hasn't been announced yet. I wonder what it will be... A Hobbit set perhaps?

#337 Haltiamieli

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 03:22 AM

With all due respect to Nuju Metru's creation – I've liked most of his LotR designs a lot and even the Minas Tirith is an interesting experiment – but to me it just proves how impossible an idea it really is. To paraphrase Boromir: "Not with ten thousand bricks could you do this. It is folly."

It's like trying to design the whole Battle of Helm's Deep, with the wall, the fortress and the tower, with a $20 pricepoint. They used $130 and some people still complained it's too small, the walls too low etc.
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#338 Faefrost

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 03:35 AM

View PostHaltiamieli, on 14 December 2012 - 03:22 AM, said:

With all due respect to Nuju Metru's creation – I've liked most of his LotR designs a lot and even the Minas Tirith is an interesting experiment – but to me it just proves how impossible an idea it really is. To paraphrase Boromir: "Not with ten thousand bricks could you do this. It is folly."

It's like trying to design the whole Battle of Helm's Deep, with the wall, the fortress and the tower, with a $20 pricepoint. They used $130 and some people still complained it's too small, the walls too low etc.

But both Nuju Metru's MOC and the Helm's Deep set achieve their primary goal very well. They manage to convey the look and feel of the scene and the setting in a reasonably achievable play environment. Neither is seeking to be a true scale model of the thing. But when you look at them, you know exactly what is being portrayed and can have fun with it. They are both great examples of how to compress something well and reasonably. (Something we tend to forget about around here sometimes.)

and somebody please stop me if I am wrong here, but one of the things that differentiates the truly great MOC'ers, such as many that we see around here, from the actual Lego designers is that focus on the ability to constructively scale things down. To be able to tell the needed story with the minimal of words or brush strokes or bricks, and do it well.
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#339 jhc2nmfn

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 05:05 AM

That is the first time I have seen that MOC of minas tirith and I have to say that's pretty sweet. I would buy this set in a heartbeat. Im actually in a theater right now waiting to see the hobbit and had to look at the pictures on my phone but im still impressed. Im excited to look at the pics on a computer rather than my phone but I still have my doubts on whether lego would release a set like this. It just seems bigger than what I think legos attempt will be. Regardless I wish that someone would get actual proof on what these upcoming spring/summer sets of 2013 will be.

#340 Durins Bane

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 10:52 AM

View PostUsernameMDM, on 13 December 2012 - 02:50 PM, said:

Battle packs.  I really want to see battle packs!

If I do not get a Erebor Battlepack I will quit Lego. Just saw the movie, Nothing short of perfect.

#341 Deathleech

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 10:30 PM

View PostHaltiamieli, on 14 December 2012 - 03:22 AM, said:

With all due respect to Nuju Metru's creation – I've liked most of his LotR designs a lot and even the Minas Tirith is an interesting experiment – but to me it just proves how impossible an idea it really is. To paraphrase Boromir: "Not with ten thousand bricks could you do this. It is folly."

It's like trying to design the whole Battle of Helm's Deep, with the wall, the fortress and the tower, with a $20 pricepoint. They used $130 and some people still complained it's too small, the walls too low etc.

I would gladly buy a Minas Tirith like that in a heart beat.  I am sure some people will be unhappy no matter what Lego ends up doing though.  If they made a 150 dollar set people would complain it's too small and it lacks too much.  If Lego did a $1000 set people would complain it's way to costly.  Like Faefrost points out, I think Nuju Metru's model captures the essence and feel of Minas Tirith VERY well, while still being at a reasonable price point (and could be even lower without all the catapults and huge brick built Fel Beast).  I mean look at Eurolock's Helm's Deep MOC.  It looks almost identical to the real thing in some parts, but even still it's missing a lot (a lot of wall which isn't long or tall enough and there is no mountain behind the wall or on the left side).  And he estimates it cost around $500 bucks!

This is something I keep trying to explain to people but it's like they don't understand.  Lego CAN NOT totally recreate a lot of LotR/Hobbit locations due to a number of limiting factors. They need to keep the price range accessible to their main audience of kids, make the set resemble it's movie counter part, fit several different set price points, and all the while still make a profit off the sets.  Like the Mirkwood Spider set.. Lego simply cannot make an entire forest as that's impossible.  Instead they made it a fairly cheap $30 set and only added a few trees.  People complain these types of sets feel incomplete though.  Does this mean Lego just shouldn't even try?  No, they just do the best they can.

I for one would love to see a Minas Tirith set, but I also am fully aware of all the limitations and except them.  Some people, on the other hand, seem to expect a full 7 level city built into a mountain that is thousands of feet high made out of Lego all for under 200 dollars..

#342 jhc2nmfn

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 11:00 PM

Erebor- wow just amazing.  The worst part of the movie is knowing I have to wait another 2 years to see the end. Very excited for more sets from these movies even though the sets already out span further than the first movie

#343 Durins Bane

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 01:28 AM

View Postjhc2nmfn, on 14 December 2012 - 11:00 PM, said:

Erebor- wow just amazing.  The worst part of the movie is knowing I have to wait another 2 years to see the end. Very excited for more sets from these movies even though the sets already out span further than the first movie

That is what this whole line should have been focused on, imo.

#344 Faefrost

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 05:43 AM

View PostDurins Bane, on 14 December 2012 - 10:52 AM, said:

If I do not get a Erebor Battlepack I will quit Lego. Just saw the movie, Nothing short of perfect.

Forget the battlepack what we really must have is a set featuring a mangy smelly wizard... molesting a hedgehog... while on a sled... pulled by a dozen bunny rabbits... being chased by wargs. Now THAT would be epic.
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#345 Smack

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 06:23 AM

First off, I will just go with Faefrost on the whole smelly, hedgehog molesting set I guess (although it might not meet TLG standards :wink: :laugh: ).  I was just reading everyone's thoughts about a Minas Tirith set and had an idea.  What if there was a LOTR wave where if you bought x number of sets there were online instructions given by TLG on how to make your own Minas Tirith?  I believe that occured in 2009 or 10 with a Star Wars wave.  Or, as with the first LOTR wave, you could combine sets (Uruk Army and Helm's Deep) to make a Minas Tirith.  Or lastly, and maybe the best idea, is for TLG to release a Minas Tirith "starter" set where one could buy multiples of the starter set and TLG could give a link to instructions on how to expand and complete a full on huge MInas Tirith diorama.  I seriously had all these ideas in about 2 minutes so if they don't make sense sorry.  A little free associative typing I guess. :head_back:

#346 zylek

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 06:34 AM

View Postjhc2nmfn, on 14 December 2012 - 11:00 PM, said:

Erebor- wow just amazing.  The worst part of the movie is knowing I have to wait another 2 years to see the end. Very excited for more sets from these movies even though the sets already out span further than the first movie

Actually they are throwing us a bone and it's only 18 months, part 2 in December 2013 and part 3 in summer of 2014.

#347 Legonardo

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 09:01 AM

Spoiler

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#348 Tauntaunwampa

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 02:27 PM

I think that the descriptions have been confused.

There was talk about a year ago describing that there was going to be an LEGO Flying Dutchman (seperate from the LEGO Spongebob Squarepants set). There were no preliminary pictures but there was a couple of users on the forums who had connections with the workers of the LEGO Stores and they confirmed that there was going to the a LEGO Flying Dutchman that was over 2000 pieces. It was soon cancelled and nothing more has been heard of it. This is all from memory so it may be hazy.

I seriously doubt that there will be a corsair ship with 10-12 mini-figures. The ships had minimal screen time and would not be a good set for the line's second wave.

Also, to debunk rumors of a  mixed Hobbit and Lord of the Rings wave, LEGO has stated in the past that these lines are separate

#349 Blakstone

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 03:49 PM

View PostTauntaunwampa, on 15 December 2012 - 02:27 PM, said:

I seriously doubt that there will be a corsair ship with 10-12 mini-figures. The ships had minimal screen time and would not be a good set for the line's second wave.

I agree. It is way too early in these lines to get a pirate ship from a very short scene. If they really did it, I likely would skip getting it.

View PostTauntaunwampa, on 15 December 2012 - 02:27 PM, said:

Also, to debunk rumors of a  mixed Hobbit and Lord of the Rings wave, LEGO has stated in the past that these lines are separate

As long as they continue to use separate logos for The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings, they can release the two waves at the same time and for all extensive purposes it is the same wave.

#350 jhc2nmfn

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 04:33 PM

Does everyone think elrond will be released again in future sets? Or since he was the promo fig. For the video game will this be the only time we see him?

Spoiled don't read if you haven't seen the movie






don't understand why yazneg is on the white warg either. Azog should have been with that set. What are some of the other minifigs everyone is looking forward to?

Im starting to doubt the eagles nest set also after seeing the movie, not saying they wont add eagles to a different set though.

Edited by jhc2nmfn, 15 December 2012 - 04:39 PM.




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