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LOTR & The Hobbit 2013 Set Discussion

LOTR 2013 Lord of the Rings

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#301 General Magma

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 07:46 PM

View PostFaefrost, on 10 December 2012 - 07:38 PM, said:

I still strongly suspect that when we do see a Pelinor Fields set it will be something along the lines of the Ninjago 2521 Lightning Dragon set. The Fel Beast will be he primary build. 4 figs. A horse, and probably some sort of small terrain object like a catapult. It's the sort of set we know they have done before. Yeah they could do a huge set to squeeze in a new fully molded Fel Beast and then surround it with something to be built, but I just don't see them going down that path.

For LotR and the Hobbit they have been making scenes not places. They have everything they need to make the Aowyn vs the Witch King in their bag of tricks now, and keep it to. Mid sized/priced set. That's what they will go for. Besides rhe designers like creating organic shapes out of Lego. That's why we have a brick built Shelob.

Only are Fell Beasts sleek, snake-like creatures, not a form of bricky-organic.
The video game clearly seems to display the plans they have, more or less. The Balrog was brick built, the Fell Beast was not.

A Pelennor Fields set could work with a Mûmak and maybe an orc catapult or perhaps a siege tower.

#302 Fives

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 09:41 PM

I would really love to see them make the Fell Beast with a molded body/legs/tail/head but then make the wings brick built, mostly out of technic bits, so they can unfurl or fold up. They could so something similar to the Ninjago dragon, but have fabric bits in between each skeletal bit to make the wings look full when unfurled. It would also he.p take up a chunk of the built part of the set, but we could still get the cool molded design. If this type of thing was applied to the Fell Beasts, Eagles and Smaug, it would be very cool.
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#303 Infernum

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 10:09 PM

Hmm, I think a Fell Beast and Catapult/ Siege Tower set would be good, or a fell beast could come with a Minas Tirith or Minas Tirith Gate set.
I would imagine Minas Tirith being a Death Star type set, big with lots of minifigures and play features. I could also imagine Barad Dur being a Dropship and AT-OT type set, one sided set, no battle. I think that would be cool if it came with Sauron, Mouth of Sauron, 1 or 2 Battle trolls, a ton of orcs, and possibly Sam and Frodo in Orc Armor, trying to sneak past. That'd be great. :sweet:
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#304 Deathleech

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 10:14 PM

View PostFaefrost, on 10 December 2012 - 07:38 PM, said:

The same idea will hold true with any depictions of Mina's Tirith. Unless they do a huge Deathstar type $400 play set. Otherwise we will get a bunch of individual scenes. Stuff like the main gate with the battering ram, the white tree, lighting the beacon, an orcish siege tower, Faramirs Charge, the tomb of he stewards, etc. little small sets of bits and pieces like Mines of Moria or the Goblin King.  They will not be interconnected modules. They won't be stacking layers. They will have great figs. At best we may see an army builder set with a modular piece of wall that connects to the main gate. And let's be honest with ourselves, if they did attempt to do a single huge Mina's Tirith set what we would get would be something of roughly he same size, shape, play value, and disturbingly high cost as an average traditional wedding cake. Just less delicious.

And what makes you say that?  So far we have only seen 2 Middle Earth-themed waves and other than The Battle of Helm's Deep and Uruk-hai Army, none have been sets from the same scene.  I don't see them ever creating more than 2-3 Minas Tirith themed sets, and if they did surely they would connect somehow.  It would be silly not to have them.

As for Minas Tirith, I have mixed feelings how Lego will end up doing it.  They HAVE to create it though, it's one of the most grand battles in the LotR trilogy and takes up most of the third film's run time.  I think the best option would be make it into an upper and lower half, and maybe make a third army builder/wall set to add on as many as you like such as they did with Helm's Deep.  Realistically though, I think they would just mimic Helm's Deep exactly with the one smaller add on set and maybe a single big $150-180 set.  I hope they don't go this route though because even at that price it still probably wouldn't do Minas Tirith justice.  Of course they will scale it down, there is no question about that, but I just hope it's Helm's Deep type scaling, not Weathertop where it almost looks comical because it's so small.  Of course the only other likely option is a huge D2C set like you said similar to the Death Star.. but I just question if Lego is willing to put that kind of investment into a theme that's any less popular than Star Wars.

#305 Faefrost

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 03:25 AM

View PostDeathleech, on 10 December 2012 - 10:14 PM, said:



And what makes you say that?  So far we have only seen 2 Middle Earth-themed waves and other than The Battle of Helm's Deep and Uruk-hai Army, none have been sets from the same scene.  I don't see them ever creating more than 2-3 Minas Tirith themed sets, and if they did surely they would connect somehow.  It would be silly not to have them.

As for Minas Tirith, I have mixed feelings how Lego will end up doing it.  They HAVE to create it though, it's one of the most grand battles in the LotR trilogy and takes up most of the third film's run time.  I think the best option would be make it into an upper and lower half, and maybe make a third army builder/wall set to add on as many as you like such as they did with Helm's Deep.  Realistically though, I think they would just mimic Helm's Deep exactly with the one smaller add on set and maybe a single big $150-180 set.  I hope they don't go this route though because even at that price it still probably wouldn't do Minas Tirith justice.  Of course they will scale it down, there is no question about that, but I just hope it's Helm's Deep type scaling, not Weathertop where it almost looks comical because it's so small.  Of course the only other likely option is a huge D2C set like you said similar to the Death Star.. but I just question if Lego is willing to put that kind of investment into a theme that's any less popular than Star Wars.

I don't think there is a way to do Mina's Tirith as a whole justice as a retail Lego set. It can't be compared really to Helms Deep. Helms Deep was created as a 1 to 1 actual stage set to film. It was actually rather limited in scope and scale. In converting it to a minifig scale retail set Lego did not have to reduce it by insane amounts. Whereas the only complete filming version of Helms Deep was 1/72 scale. The calculated live size and the amount of reduction would be nuts. I really think the best single set we can hope for will be something like Helms Deep, in terms of the set, but a much smaller piece of real estate overall. Probably the main gate and part of the outer wall, with an Orc battering ram and siege tower. Essentially something about the same size as a typical waves flagship castle. We may see other MT located scenes, but don't expect any modularity unless they do something like the Uruk Army set. Things like "Pippin lighting the beacon" would most likely be separate stand alone sets.

As for what makes me say this? Just looking at Legos history. Yes they have Helms Deep and Uruk Hai that link, but the others don't. Interconnecting Lego sets of that type are rare, and often seem like experiments (Jabba's Palace and Rancor?) and we know hey don't often seem to go together. ( how many Battle of Hoth sets have we gotten? How many interconnect?)

Edited by Faefrost, 11 December 2012 - 03:27 AM.

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#306 Jack Bricker

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 11:43 AM

View PostFaefrost, on 11 December 2012 - 03:25 AM, said:

I don't think there is a way to do Mina's Tirith as a whole justice as a retail Lego set. It can't be compared really to Helms Deep. Helms Deep was created as a 1 to 1 actual stage set to film. It was actually rather limited in scope and scale. In converting it to a minifig scale retail set Lego did not have to reduce it by insane amounts. Whereas the only complete filming version of Helms Deep was 1/72 scale. The calculated live size and the amount of reduction would be nuts. I really think the best single set we can hope for will be something like Helms Deep, in terms of the set, but a much smaller piece of real estate overall. Probably the main gate and part of the outer wall, with an Orc battering ram and siege tower. Essentially something about the same size as a typical waves flagship castle. We may see other MT located scenes, but don't expect any modularity unless they do something like the Uruk Army set. Things like "Pippin lighting the beacon" would most likely be separate stand alone sets.

I would agree with most of that except that you really cannot have a proper LOTR theme without Minas Tirith.  I tend to think that probably Lego will release a UCS Minas Tirith at some point in time.  Why?  Because LOTR is a more adult centered theme and that is the primary market for UCS type sets.  Also, I think that with the general LOTR fanbase a Minas Tirith set would also be popular and perhapes bring more people into Lego.  Think about it, if you are a LOTR fan what better way to get a nice model of such a iconic location for under $1,000.  Yea, sure you can find scale models but, they are hugely expensive and difficult to assemble for inexperience model makers and they cannot be dissassembled at all once they are finished.  For all of these reason I do see an exception to the rule for a Minas Tirith set and I really hope they do make.

#307 Lynx

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 11:56 AM

View PostJack Bricker, on 11 December 2012 - 11:43 AM, said:

I tend to think that probably Lego will release a UCS Minas Tirith at some point in time.  

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#308 Vindice

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 12:31 PM

UCS = Ultimate collector series, and is usually reserved as a centrepiece for a long standing theme with good sales history.

I don't think people should discount the possibility of  a fell beast turning up in the rumoured Black Gate set.
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#309 Lynx

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 12:35 PM

View PostVindice, on 11 December 2012 - 12:31 PM, said:

UCS = Ultimate collector series, and is usually reserved as a centrepiece for a long standing theme with good sales history.

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#310 Gryphon Ink

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 02:25 PM

I really think TLG will just not even try to do all of Minas Tirith.  As everyone has noted, even a $200 set would not do the city justice at minifig scale.  It would probably look a bit ridiculous, and TLG are smart enough to not walk into that trap.  It would be a lot better for them to only do the bits and pieces that they can do accurately, like the front gate.  So my prediction would be that around the end of this theme, we will see a $150-200 "Siege of the White City" set that includes the gate, a couple of wall sections, a troll-powered trebuchet and a winged Nazgul.  Behind the outer wall, one taller wall construction will suggest MT's signature "prow" shape to give it some depth and make it more playable, but it will not try to represent the whole city.  Everyone will gnash their teeth and scream "but we need all of Minas Tirith", but I bet they could make this a set that we would all like.

I wouldn't completely rule out the possibility of a UCS set, but I don't think TLG will rush down that road just yet.

Edited by Gryphon Ink, 11 December 2012 - 02:26 PM.

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#311 Blakstone

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 03:49 PM

It is now common for Marvel action figures to sell a portion of a megafigure in five different action figures. Once you buy all five you can build a giant Galactus as well.

What if TLG made a series of Pelennor Fields sets such as Eowyn vs Witch-king, Rohirrim vs Orcs, Mumakil, and Grong vs The Gate? Each battle pack has a different section of the lower city and with a little MOCing this could be used for higher sections as well.

It is great that you can continue to add to Helm's Deep with that same wall segment; however, for Minas Tirith is a much more varied wall with city behind it.

#312 Crownie

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 04:18 PM

Leaving set specifics for a more general overview:

Does anyone else get the feeling that this summer wave of LOTR will likely be the last we see? I keep seeing this smaller wave of 4-6 sets being released along with a somewhat small wave 2 for the Hobbit in the winter(now that Mirkwood and Barrels have been taken out of the release). Maybe half a dozen sets for the last summer Hobbit wave in 2013, and then nothing.

I guess my gut feeling is that the Hobbit movie isn't going to be all that well received. I'm sure it will recoup it's production costs no doubt, but I'm not sure it will be the surefire hit that many are hoping for. I wish I had some sort of concrete evidence to present, but really it's just my gut instinct. A bit depressing really. Also, the large amount of LOTR sets still on shelves across the country seems to indicate that - at a retail level anyway - the sets are not selling as quickly as hoped. I'm not sure the release of the Hobbit will increase the sales of these sets as many have speculated. :sceptic:

I'm keeping my fingers crossed in any event, though I'm a bit afraid to set my hopes too high.

#313 Hawkman

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 04:26 PM

View PostBlakstone, on 11 December 2012 - 03:49 PM, said:

It is now common for Marvel action figures to sell a portion of a megafigure in five different action figures. Once you buy all five you can build a giant Galactus as well.

What if TLG made a series of Pelennor Fields sets such as Eowyn vs Witch-king, Rohirrim vs Orcs, Mumakil, and Grong vs The Gate? Each battle pack has a different section of the lower city and with a little MOCing this could be used for higher sections as well.

It is great that you can continue to add to Helm's Deep with that same wall segment; however, for Minas Tirith is a much more varied wall with city behind it.

That build-a-figure system works for action figures, because generally you're only paying $10-15 per figure. Here with what's being described for Minas Tirith, we're looking at sets at least $50-60 if done right. After five or six of those, we're talking $300-360 just to collect the build-a-Minas, which may not even be complete.

Personally, if Lego makes a Minas Tirith just slightly bigger than Helm's Deep, I'd be happy. Price it around $200, make it a bigger set than Helm's Deep, add in some major characters with maybe one Gondor soldier and one Orc and possibly a Fell Beast. Then compliment the set with a Gondor vs Orc battle pack released at the same time.

View PostCrownie, on 11 December 2012 - 04:18 PM, said:

Does anyone else get the feeling that this summer wave of LOTR will likely be the last we see?

I highly doubt it. Lego has the license and the Hobbit movies are going to be going till mid-'14, There's no reason to stop making LOTR sets if they can piggyback them on the success of The Hobbit.

View PostCrownie, on 11 December 2012 - 04:18 PM, said:

I guess my gut feeling is that the Hobbit movie isn't going to be all that well received.

Consult your local physician. You may be having some internal urological issues or you might have food poisoning. :wink:

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#314 Crownie

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 05:49 PM

View PostHawkman, on 11 December 2012 - 04:26 PM, said:

Consult your local physician. You may be having some internal urological issues or you might have food poisoning. :wink:

The Hobbit will rock socks.

:laugh:

I hope you're right about the Hobbit. I'm seeing it Friday in High Frame-rate 3D. :classic:

#315 The_Chosen_1

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 05:56 PM

The Hobbit films will do extremely well in theaters.  Anyone who thinks otherwise is fooling themselves.  We're talking about one of the most highly anticipated film releases in years here.

I really do hope the LotR/Hobbit themes last for at least another 3-4 years.  There is still so much material to mine from.  I do worry, though, about the sets' appeal to kids.  As AFOLs we have a lot of purchasing power, but most of the business still comes from kids.  If the kids don't like a theme, it won't stick around...
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#316 jhc2nmfn

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 08:37 PM

I disagree with you on minas tirith. Although it could be very disappointing to some,  I think they will attempt a set similar to helms deep. Maybe using something like the video game version as a guide (from the bonus level) only on a bigger scale. Circular walled base with a gate on it and a 4-5 story tower in the middle maybe in more of an oval shape with a white tree on top. The battle pack (like the eomer set with helms deep) would include Grond with orcs and gondorian soldiers most likely. Im not sure who they would include as a named minifig in that set.

Which 4 sets did the dutch toy store announce? Pirate ship, eagles nest and I thought there were 2 more but I don't remember them.

Then brickset is saying the pirate ship, black gate and what?

#317 Elander

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 10:01 PM

View PostThe_Chosen_1, on 11 December 2012 - 05:56 PM, said:

...  As AFOLs we have a lot of purchasing power, but most of the business still comes from kids.  If the kids don't like a theme, it won't stick around...

Which kids from which age did you mean? I believe that LEGO is too expensive for younger kids. If someone is able to buy those LEGO sets then it will be the older ones (I mean kids which are 12+.) And I assume that a lot of those kids are willing to buy LotR LEGO sets.

In my opinion should LEGO release one very big LotR LEGO set. LotR has a very huge elder fan community. And if they would see for example a wonderful Rivendell or Lothlorien LEGO set. Then could those people come to get an appetite to LEGO. :sweet:

#318 Vindice

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 11:33 PM

I think Mimas tirith could be set out much like Hogwarts castle, as a series of popular locations. I know there is a big difference in that many hog warts locations were central to the story but the difficulty in capturing both buildings is similar in terms of realisation and you could have four locations. Outer wall siege, houses of healing, hall of denethor and perhaps the lighting of the beacon.

May not look much like the entire build but then neither did hogwarts really. It could also be expanded further like the last version of hogwarts where they released the battle of hogwarts in a later wave. This could be the main gate being besieged by grond or the showdown between the witch king and either gandalf or downy and merry.
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#319 randomuser

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 03:47 AM

Okay im going to clear this up to everyone since most of the people are looking at this from a fanboy perspective and not an economic business man one. Okay since Orthanc is the "flagship" set and it is part of the main gallery initial visual display there is a 99% chance it will be a USC set with a 10 at the beginning of the product number which most likely means it will be well over $100 because they are considered separate from the actual release. Also you have to realize there have not been any actual set names or descriptions released but they are going to make "bigger" scenes that were popular to the viewing audience. Which is actually a large amount of the consumers that are buying the sets many parents are having their children watch the movies and then coming buy the sets its not just hardcore fans buying sets so they have to appeal more to the regular movie fan not extreme enthusiast.

#320 Faefrost

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 04:13 AM

Don't assume we will ever actually see the Orthanc model seen in that design room picture as an actual set. Remember many of the things in that picture are sketch models to guage the viability of a project. There are plenty there that will probably never see production. (I mean really how many are just dying for a life size bust of Watto?)
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#321 jhc2nmfn

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 04:51 AM

If orthanc is released as a ucs set, then I don't think it will be released for a few years until lotr and hobbit have a few successful waves a set releases. Does anyone know how long it took for star wars to begin releasing ucs sets? Which other themes have ucs? I really doubt orthanc is released as a ucs series though. Its more likely to be released as a 3-4 story tower similar to the one in the lego room with gandalf saruman merry pippin an ent  and a few orcs. This is not me thinking as a "fanboy" its me thinking realistically of what would make sense.I would love to see an expensive ucs orthanc, I just don't see it happening, atleast anytime soon anyway.

#322 Dr.Cogg

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 06:07 AM

I think the Orthanc in the picture is the betrayel of Isengard set and will most likly cost the same as Helms Deep , Just image all the parts of Helms Deep stacked on top of each other and it would probably be about the same height, also remember before we saw the Hobbit sets official images there was this picture with the Hobbit sets on the shelves.

#323 Hawkman

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 06:35 AM

View Postjhc2nmfn, on 12 December 2012 - 04:51 AM, said:

Does anyone know how long it took for star wars to begin releasing ucs sets? Which other themes have ucs?

Star Wars had their first "UCS" back in 2000, while the line itself started in 1999. As far as I know, there haven't been any other lines or themes that have carried the UCS title. With that said though, there have been other very large sets of a similiar caliber offered in other lines.

As for Orthanc or any other LOTR/Hobbit set made as an UCS, I think it's just way too early to tell. The LOTR line is only six months old and not even into their second wave yet. Lego knew the kind of money people were willing to spend on Star Wars collectibles back in '99; the Prequels were just starting to take over and so many companies were jumping on board for the ride. It was an easy money-maker and still is. LOTR is no where near as successful as far as a merchandise license goes - very few LOTR products were available up until this past year. If LOTR is going to see an UCS type set, alot of that will depend on how well the Hobbit movie will do.
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#324 Clone OPatra

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 09:29 AM

View PostHawkman, on 12 December 2012 - 06:35 AM, said:

Star Wars had their first "UCS" back in 2000, while the line itself started in 1999. As far as I know, there haven't been any other lines or themes that have carried the UCS title. With that said though, there have been other very large sets of a similiar caliber offered in other lines.
The original Batman line had an Ultimate Collectors' set in its first year.  With LotR, since it automatically appeals to adults, a UCS-type set isn't out of the question.
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#325 Vindice

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 11:39 AM

Batman did have a UCS set early on but once again it has the same benefits as SW in that all superhero merchandise and material is ongoing and always available. tolkiens universe has had a ten year hiatus give or take with little to no merchandising in that time.

Even Potter didn't get a UCS set (had a nice D2C set in Diagon alley very late on) and that was a long standing theme with a decade or so of being in the public eye and many profitable waves.

i have to say that LOTR provides a lot more scope than HP did for set ideas but LEGO will still want to know something is going to sell before tying up too much money in it.
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