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Ragnarök Now - Day Four


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#26 Etzel

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 06:41 PM

Well, I can honestly say I didn't expect Bergulf coming up as town. But I guess the way Hervi guided him made his action and speak coming out more scummy than they were.

I haven't had any contact with Hervi so I can't provide anything in that subject, but I hope those who have will come forward and share that. I don't have any strong suspicions as of yet today, I had thought before today that it would be a good idea to focus on Bergulf today, but that turned out wrong in many ways.

#27 Scubacarrot

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 06:48 PM

I want to know this. So there is this Hephaestos, who according to Hervi had an action just to confuse things. Now we all knew and know that was a load of hogwash, but now he is claiming inventor? Since Hervi knew, and thus the remaining scum know/knows. How about this is the first thing we get on the table. Who is Hephaestos? This is not the time for backroom tactics, the scum know everyone that played in the little alliance of epic failure. I'm just saying, the quicker we get the cards the scum already know on the table, the quicker we win.

I feel like I need to say this, but in my private conversation with him, Hervi said he trusted Finn. Not with so much words, but I suggested he was suspicious, which Hervi discarded immediately, and he later brought him up again when in thread I followed his vote for Gerrid.

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#28 Bob

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 07:04 PM

View Postfhomess, on 25 October 2012 - 05:25 PM, said:

Wait a minute... most of your suspects have turned out to be Einherjar?  The only Einherjar you actually voted for was Danr.  Perhaps you can tell us who you suspect now.

I suspected the late Foog as well as Chief Mursi, a mistake as they both turned out to be loyal Einherjar. If you'd like my suspicions, here you go:
- Wary the Black: Something about him rubs me the wrong way.
- Wihlem Bloodaxe: He's been very very quiet, understandable on Day One but now it's Day Four and I was hoping he'd be around more often.
- Patrekr the Red: Once again, just someone who doesn't seem right to me.

Most of these are just gut intuitions, some with low basis.

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#29 Scouty

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 07:04 PM

View PostPandora, on 25 October 2012 - 05:37 PM, said:

Why do you think Hervi was tailored and not that Bergulf was framed? Surely framing Bergulf would be the most efficient thing to do, as then he'd get opposite results no matter who he investigated? And it's considerably more common to have a framer than a tailor.
Well, first, here's how things went down that night. It was Bergulf's intention to target both you and Hervi initially, but most people in Hervi's circle believed it was better that Bergulf investigate himself with somebody else, which most of us wanted Hervi investigated, a fact Hervi was happy to go with. Hervi pushed Bergulf into investigating themselves together, or at least seemingly implied it...strongly.


If they framed Bergulf, then would that mean that "two" scum were investigated, meaning his action was successful, and it'd be up to Bergulf to assume that they're both town? I think the close wording Bergulf used was that "he thought Hervi and he were the same alliance". I suppose framing Bergulf is possible, in that regard. I guess the counterargument to that is that maybe the scum were afraid that Bergulf would be told they were both scum? In which case, tailoring Hervi would make them both Town, so if alignment was revealed, they'd both be town. That sounds safer to me...maybe they have an inventor/jack of trades of their own and already used up their framer/tailor/etc., so they were left with either or?

Note also that Hervi mentioned he was targeted by the Prankster on Night 2. Perhaps this was a cover story to hide the fact he was targeted by his own scum mate, in case the watcher targeted him, which Hervi was in contact with the watcher, supposedly.

I mean, either or is possible...I think Hervi's tailoring is more plausible, but that's just my opinion.

View PostScubacarrot, on 25 October 2012 - 06:48 PM, said:


I want to know this. So there is this Hephaestos, who according to Hervi had an action just to confuse things. Now we all knew and know that was a load of hogwash, but now he is claiming inventor? Since Hervi knew, and thus the remaining scum know/knows. How about this is the first thing we get on the table. Who is Hephaestos? This is not the time for backroom tactics, the scum know everyone that played in the little alliance of epic failure. I'm just saying, the quicker we get the cards the scum already know on the table, the quicker we win.

I don't think the scum know absolutely every town role here. I'd be careful not to be hasty and end up accidentally revealing one of our own power roles that the scum don't know at all or haven't confirmed yet. Of course there are those who Hinck was in contact with and which they revealed their roles to him, rather foolishly in my opinion, so I'd leave it up to them to reveal themselves if they're certain their cover is blown, but I don't think we should drag them out so roughly.

Also, Hephaestus was always the inventor. I don't know how you mixed the prankster and investigator together.
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#30 Waterbrick Down

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 07:05 PM

View PostScubacarrot, on 25 October 2012 - 06:48 PM, said:

I want to know this. So there is this Hephaestos, who according to Hervi had an action just to confuse things. Now we all knew and know that was a load of hogwash, but now he is claiming inventor? Since Hervi knew, and thus the remaining scum know/knows. How about this is the first thing we get on the table. Who is Hephaestos? This is not the time for backroom tactics, the scum know everyone that played in the little alliance of epic failure. I'm just saying, the quicker we get the cards the scum already know on the table, the quicker we win.

I feel like I need to say this, but in my private conversation with him, Hervi said he trusted Finn. Not with so much words, but I suggested he was suspicious, which Hervi discarded immediately, and he later brought him up again when in thread I followed his vote for Gerrid.
Hervi never said that Hephaestos confused things, that was Vulcan. According to Hervi Hephaestos is supposed to be an inventor, and Cranebeinn ,who is speaking for the supposed inventor, says that he was blocked last night.

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#31 Scouty

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 07:06 PM

It was some famous guy that's going to live hundreds and hundreds of years from now who once said: haste makes waste.
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#32 Scubacarrot

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 07:38 PM

Okay, right. But Cranebeinn also said Hervi knew about Hephaestus. I never said bring all the PRs that Hervi knew about in the open, that'd be kinda stupid. But the ones that he does not know about have no business staying silent.

Haste makes waste? Really? Are you actively trying to get us to lose or what?

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#33 CallMePie

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 07:47 PM

View PostScubacarrot, on 25 October 2012 - 07:38 PM, said:

But the ones that he does not know about have no business staying silent.

Are you sure? I'd imagine their life expectancy being a lot longer if their identities remained hidden. :wacko: There's still two killers out there, I doubt either one wants people with night actions that could potentially screw them to remain alive.
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#34 Scouty

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 07:47 PM

View PostScubacarrot, on 25 October 2012 - 07:38 PM, said:

Haste makes waste? Really? Are you actively trying to get us to lose or what?
No, I'm trying to not be stupid, that's all. We've done very well so far in eliminating four scum (which sort of seems too well, too soon), and I'd like to be cautious to not balls things up at this point. Play it up to my style to be cautious, but I have worked very hard for this town and a statement like that last one is insulting.
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#35 Scubacarrot

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 08:17 PM

View PostCallMePie, on 25 October 2012 - 07:47 PM, said:

Are you sure? I'd imagine their life expectancy being a lot longer if their identities remained hidden. :wacko: There's still two killers out there, I doubt either one wants people with night actions that could potentially screw them to remain alive.

Two things: One killer knows this stuff. If the other investigator is of the common kind, win with either side kind, he would be terrible to change sides now.

View PostScouty, on 25 October 2012 - 07:47 PM, said:

No, I'm trying to not be stupid, that's all. We've done very well so far in eliminating four scum (which sort of seems too well, too soon), and I'd like to be cautious to not balls things up at this point. Play it up to my style to be cautious, but I have worked very hard for this town and a statement like that last one is insulting.

Then don't make us lose. If we sit here and do nothing with the evidence we have. What do you suggest we do? Argue some more without evidence? Sure, it worked out well in the past for us, but do you really think that will continue to work?

I don't see why you want to protect these people. If you haven't noticed, Hervi was scum. Okay? Hear me? Hello? So that means he was lying about stuff? Okay? Believe me I invented that strategy he used. It's up to us to catch those lies. You want to sit around doing nothing while the remaining scum are going to slowly kill off our powerroles? I do not. Your strategy sucks. It only helps the scum. If that's insulting, then I'm insulting. Deal with it. I could not give less of it. The last one that was insulted was Hervi. And he was scum. And he died. Are you scum? Are you going to die? You tell me.

Just on this day, you say: Let's hope there's only two more left. Now that's a very odd number to say just now. In most cases, there are 5 proprietors. How do you assume there are 6? We haven't gotten evidence for conversion, now have we?

And what about that message you send me? I'm gonna die, go after Dragmall, Petrus, and Hervi, boo hoo. Now we all know Hervi was setting himself up to lynch, I have little doubt it was his plan, or tried to make it his plan, somehow. But really? Why would you get killed, you haven't been useful to the town in the slightest.

On day one, you and your buddy seem to be lobbying to lynch the -innocent- Bergulf, and make the sudden switch to Danr when the bandwagon was formed. Does that condemn you? No. Does it help you? Nooooooooooo.

As I said on day two, Jormund, the dirty scum that he was, at one point explicitly agreed with you. Does that prove anything? No. Sveinn Joked around with Hervi. He was more interested in catching a neutral than nailing a lying duplicate investigator. But then! Then, he votes for Hervi! The dumb scum! Does that prove anything? perhaps! He voted for him at a time where he would never be lynched. Wow, there goes my hope of clearing you, Sveinn. Later he unvotes because he is not sure anymore, apparantly. Fair enough. No biggie. Then what happened? You tried to dissuade me from going for Hervi, good attempt. But no deal.

On day three, nothing of worth was found in Sveinn's statements. I'll be frank, I'm not convinced you are scum, but from your attitude, which reminds me of Hervi's: Smug, downplaying , It would not surprise me.

At the end of the day, it's simple. You can quote me on this one, I say it's on par with lynch all liars!, Scum or Dumb! and more of those wondrous awesome sentences appropiate for near every situation. Hear it is: WHO IS NOT HELPING THE TOWN, IS A DIRTY SCUMPANTS.

Let me ask you this: Are you helping the town, Sveinn?

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#36 Darkdragon

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 08:34 PM

Snotra, aren't you being a bit hard on Sveinn? It seems like he's working as hard as he can with all the same information we have. We are all just looking into what's been said and done, mostly by Hervi, to try and figure out what he knew.

If everyone who actually told Hervi thier power role would come forward here or to a trusted source, we can at least deduce what roles are still safe and what has been compromised.

Anyone who didn't share role info with Hervi, please don't tell us here. Obviously there are still scum watching and we don't need them getting any more info than they already have.

#37 Waterbrick Down

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 08:39 PM

I think maybe some of the trepidation by Sveinn is the possibility of a third party. Now honestly, our job is to eliminate the Servants of Loki so perhaps we shouldn't be too worried about them (should they exist) but we still need to be careful with how much information we give out.

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#38 Scubacarrot

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 08:44 PM

I'll be honest. I like this third party guy. He killed two of the scum for us, if you haven't noticed. The scum themselves killed the other two, honestly. Time to do some work ourselves. I know I'm right. If you don't think so, you need to convince me of your reasoning, because I don't see it. The more we discuss shit, the easier it is to kill scum. It's as simple as that. Or we can just sit back and let third party guy do it. I'd be alright with that.

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#39 Scouty

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 08:44 PM

I've had a breath and I'd like to not reply in an aggressive manner. Please stop being so aggressive whenever somebody says anything against your views, then absolutely flipping out at them. It's happened in the past as you've done to both town and scum members alike.

To your last question: Yes, I have. I very much have. More so behind the scenes than in the front lines, but I assure you that my efforts have totally been devoted to the town.
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#40 Scubacarrot

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 08:46 PM

Tell me how.

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#41 Scouty

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 08:53 PM

You didn't say please :sceptic: . How can we have a civil discussion when you don't say please? :sad:
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#42 Dragonator

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 08:57 PM

Calm down Snotra. We're gradually putting a picture together behind the scenes and should have some idea of where to go from here soon. Aggressiveness isn't going to help us find clarity.

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#43 Sandy

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 09:02 PM

I've got my plan figured out: I now know whose judgment I can trust (at least as far as trust goes in this game of life), so I will be following those people today. If they turn out to be wrong, I will have to change my tactics.

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#44 Scouty

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 09:06 PM

View PostSandy, on 25 October 2012 - 09:02 PM, said:

I've got my plan figured out: I now know whose judgment I can trust (at least as far as trust goes in this game of life), so I will be following those people today. If they turn out to be wrong, I will have to change my tactics.
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#45 Scubacarrot

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 09:07 PM

Behind the scenes. That's funny. Because that worked out real well. Okay, I'm not going to rely on you fools. I'm going to rely on broadsword killer. He helps the town way more than any of you. And he is not even town himself. You are going to mess it up. You don't realize it's possible and even likely there was not just one scum in Hervi's little circle of dumb people? Come on now.

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#46 Scubacarrot

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 09:29 PM

In all the violence flinging around, I barely noticed no one seemed fit to reply to this: Come on Council! Indulge us with your sacred and totally not faulty knowledge.

View PostScubacarrot, on 25 October 2012 - 06:41 PM, said:

Wait. So we have this "protector" who apparantly felt woozy one time. And then there is this Juno. Who may or may not be a protector. Are they the same person? Or what?

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#47 Scubacarrot

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 09:53 PM

Since everyone is too busy talking behind their secrets about how they can mess up in the most ridiculous way possible (kind of like the dutch railway company, whatever that means). I'm just going to say this: Broadsword Killer, you are the biggest badass in this entire team. If I insulted you in the past, I probably have, I take that back. I have your back. I have this sneaking suspicion the Council or Conclave or whatever are going to try and lynch you, but no! I will not stand for it! Badasses need to stand together. Peace. Out.

I know it's supposed to be behind their backs or in secret, but I merged them. Deal with it.

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#48 Dragonator

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 11:47 PM

Thank you for your patience Snotra, I an still waiting for a couple of people to get back to me on a few matters. Progress is being made however!

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#49 Chromeknight

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 12:18 AM

View PostRick, on 25 October 2012 - 06:35 PM, said:

Did we somehow establish yet that Hephaestus is Einherjar? You seem to suggest he is.
No he is not cleared in the sense that an investigator has investigated him and come back with a result.
He has been working with town people and listening to their input and coming forward with information.
Aside from the dumb mistake of trusting Hervi, he's been playing on the right side.

View PostScubacarrot, on 25 October 2012 - 07:38 PM, said:

Okay, right. But Cranebeinn also said Hervi knew about Hephaestus. I never said bring all the PRs that Hervi knew about in the open, that'd be kinda stupid. But the ones that he does not know about have no business staying silent.

Staying silent? Nope. That's precisely why he asked me to speak for him, since my name had already come up as a patsy used by Hervi to sow discord about Bergulf/Dragmall etc...

View PostScubacarrot, on 25 October 2012 - 08:17 PM, said:

At the end of the day, it's simple. You can quote me on this one, I say it's on par with lynch all liars!, Scum or Dumb! and more of those wondrous awesome sentences appropiate for near every situation. Hear it is: WHO IS NOT HELPING THE TOWN, IS A DIRTY SCUMPANTS.

View PostScubacarrot, on 25 October 2012 - 09:07 PM, said:

Okay, I'm not going to rely on you fools. I'm going to rely on broadsword killer. He helps the town way more than any of you. And he is not even town himself. You are going to mess it up.

Helping town or not Snotra?

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#50 Palathadric

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 12:19 AM

View PostBob, on 25 October 2012 - 07:04 PM, said:

- Wary the Black: Something about him rubs me the wrong way.
I can attest to his evilness, he murdered me...years ago. Talk about "rubbing someone the wrong way!" :angry:

View PostBob, on 25 October 2012 - 07:04 PM, said:

- Patrekr the Red: Once again, just someone who doesn't seem right to me.
That's because I'm sitting on your left. I can move to your right if you like. :grin:

More seriously, I was rather puzzled to see that the scum killed Bergulf, since I assumed he would have been a number of people's target for a lynch tomorrow since Hervi came up as an evil Servant of Loki. However, upon realizing that he was the investigator, it becomes clear why they had to get him out of the way. I must say that the bitchy ol' wench made quite an argument against Sveinn.
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