219 replies to this topic

[CorneliusMurdock]

First yes, Snotra.  You are being a jerk.  But you know that already.  I'm sorry if you're tired of hearing it but I'm tired of people saying I "twist" words and I can't them to stop either.

What harm was you knowing I was Aphrodite at the time?  You said were going to vote for him.  That vote could have gone either way in a hurry.  One more vote against Hervi could have been enough to tip it his way.  Don't pretend you don't know that.

Scubacarrot, on 16 October 2012 - 09:02 PM, said:

Look, Mursi, I still suspect you, your whole defense against Danr's allegation that you made was basically: I don't think I was twisting his words. That does not cut it. You said he was being confusing. Reading back, I don't think he was, really. There's not really much to go on there, I have to say, but a dead man's words, whose words were absolutely 100% true, should be taken attention to, at least. What was more worrying was that you just seemed SO SURE of Dragmall's guilt, throughout the whole thing, up until Hervi and Dragmall call it a day, and you follow suit. In itself not a very convincing argument, and I don't dare try to get you lynched on that, but fact is that only the scum at this point can be sure of anything, so I am taking it into consideration, treat it as a valuable clue, and treat you with the right amount of caution for it.

If you really feel that strongly about me, why wait to bring it up?  You obviously didn't feel strongly enough either way in the Hervi/Dragmall vote if you were willing to lobby your vote for information.  Danr admitted to not making sense at points.  You skim over that part?  He accused me of twisting words, I denied it.  I cited examples.  What more do you want from me?  

And yes, I thought Dragmall was scummy/neutrally because of his reaction to Hervi's play.  I still don't trust him.  Hervi hasn't told me everything, and I encourage him not to, but if he says Dragmall brought him information that he wants to look into, I'm willing to give it a chance.  

As to why I should be trusted by Hervi, I don't know.  I didn't ask to be trusted and didn't go looking for it.  I certainly didn't try to use my vote as leverage to get information I didn't need.  Maybe I'm just more fun to hang around than you, Snotra.

[Hinckley]

Waterbrick Down, on 16 October 2012 - 09:17 PM, said:

Plus Hervi, what is with you trusting everyone (aside from Snorta that is)? Demeter, Artemis, Aphrodite, Poseidon, how can you be so sure none of them are playing the same role that Snorta did in the past? It's all well and good if you are town and you are actually leading us forward, but you've got to look at it from the perspective of those who aren't inside that circle, if you are scum then we are in a ton of trouble and all of this looks too convenient for you.

What makes you think I'm trusting them? They've made claims to me, if their actions don't match up, I'll hold their feet to the fire. Just because I'm concealing their identities for now doesn't mean that I trust them. They're trusting me and I'll honor that as I try to verify them. Once a verification fails, they're thrown to the tigers. Have you ever been thrown to tigers with feet on your fire? It's not pleasant.

[Scubacarrot]

Of course, here is my Hervi-suspecting side, which some of you know as the omg-you-are-such-a-dick-stop-picking-on-poor-Hervi-he-is-such-a-delicate-boy. What if he is actually scum, but Hervi knows he won't get a conviction in time, so he is a safe bet for if he ends up dying another time. If you look at the things that happened today (In before: you are weak, listen to yourself, stop deriving things, gooood) it can be constructed that Hervi and buddies deliberately try not to get someone lynched. Cui bono? Exactly.

I was talking about Gerrid being scum, if that was not clear.

[Sandy]

Scubacarrot, on 16 October 2012 - 09:08 PM, said:

Honestly I am getting really tired of people saying I'm an megablock and a dick and a jerk while they are no better themselves. Where have I offended you now?

You haven't offended me personally, I just don't like your aggressiveness and arrogance - those are very un-ladylike properties, you know. I already stated my reason for voting you. I certainly did not mean to send you any "cryptic messages" with what I said, so your attempt to bully me with a potato message was not welcomed.

Waterbrick Down, on 16 October 2012 - 09:17 PM, said:

Plus Hervi, what is with you trusting everyone (aside from Snorta that is)? Demeter, Artemis, Aphrodite, Poseidon, how can you be so sure none of them are playing the same role that Snorta did in the past? It's all well and good if you are town and you are actually leading us forward, but you've got to look at it from the perspective of those who aren't inside that circle, if you are scum then we are in a ton of trouble and all of this looks too convenient for you.

This has happened in past life (on several occasions, actually). Hervi gathers a group of followers around him, but does not actually trust any of them until they've been double-, triple- and quadruple-verified. So if he's innocent, I trust him to watch his back with these "allies". But you're right: if Hervi is scum, and has that much influence on so many people, we are in big trouble.

So my advice to all of you innocents who are in contact with Hervi is that you double-, triple- and quadruple-check him as well.

[Scubacarrot]

CorneliusMurdock, on 16 October 2012 - 09:22 PM, said:

First yes, Snotra.  You are being a jerk.  But you know that already.  I'm sorry if you're tired of hearing it but I'm tired of people saying I "twist" words and I can't them to stop either.

What harm was you knowing I was Aphrodite at the time?  You said were going to vote for him.  That vote could have gone either way in a hurry.  One more vote against Hervi could have been enough to tip it his way.  Don't pretend you don't know that.



If you really feel that strongly about me, why wait to bring it up?  You obviously didn't feel strongly enough either way in the Hervi/Dragmall vote if you were willing to lobby your vote for information.  Danr admitted to not making sense at points.  You skim over that part?  He accused me of twisting words, I denied it.  I cited examples.  What more do you want from me?
And yes, I thought Dragmall was scummy/neutrally because of his reaction to Hervi's play.  I still don't trust him.  Hervi hasn't told me everything, and I encourage him not to, but if he says Dragmall brought him information that he wants to look into, I'm willing to give it a chance.  

As to why I should be trusted by Hervi, I don't know.  I didn't ask to be trusted and didn't go looking for it.  I certainly didn't try to use my vote as leverage to get information I didn't need.  Maybe I'm just more fun to hang around than you, Snotra.

Sorry, I'm not meaning to be a jerk. But I don't call people names for no reason. I can't change things until you give advice and what needs changing and point out where I'm going wrong. Twisting words is something you can factually do, being a jerk is just so... general. Backhanded insults like you and others make in posts are no fun for anyone too, there's no need. If I'm being treated bad, of course I'm going to not go out of my way to be nice to them. That's how it goes, cast the first stone and all that. But shall we try to keep it closer to the game, thanks.

I don't think that's true, first off, he did not know that until after he offered it, the votes were not piling up, he had plenty of oppertunity to make me change my mind about my viewpoints, but instead he did not. Kept it a secret instead. So not revealing you only because I would vote for him, does not seem like enough reason to me.

I read what I read, and in this perspective, what is being called out as twisting his words by him makes sense, yes. I did not call it out, because I had no need, and could get no explanation. You already responded to it, thanks for that, by the way, but I don't think there was anything to do. As I said, there was no point to bring it up, you weren't involved in any lynches, and of course when it became relevant, I did mention it. I could of course keep public hourly records of all my suspicions, but I don't see the point and I think it would just be a lot of work.

If you want to call it leveraging my vote, I call it wanting to know what is going on. If making me want some clarity before I vote instead of word against word from people who could either be scum or even both be scum, if that makes me a jerk, I will gladly bear that title. I will also accept the mantle of the master jerk and the associated salary.

Okay, that's fair enough, but to me that looks like certainty, and that's suspicious. I think you might be too trusting of Hervi, but that's my skewered viewpoint, of course.

Sandy, on 16 October 2012 - 09:27 PM, said:

You haven't offended me personally, I just don't like your aggressiveness and arrogance - those are very un-ladylike properties, you know. I already stated my reason for voting you. I certainly did not mean to send you any "cryptic messages" with what I said, so your attempt to bully me with a potato message was not welcomed.

I'll be honest, I don't know what a potato message is. Your cryptic message was in thread.

[Dragonator]

Well, everyone is speaking at lighting pace, so I'll just throw in my own few words. I'm gladI cleared things up with Hervi as that was a rather unfortunate misunderstanding, but now we are a bit more on track. To be fair, the conversation certainly got some interesting responses, particularly from Snotra, who was using the distraction to try and gain information about the town roles. I find this incredibly suspicious, and his aggressive defense hasn't helped his case much.

However, I think the best decision for today is to Vote: Gerrid (Captain Genaro). Although Bergulf acted rather badly on day one, I think it was innocent confusion, not malicious intent.

I don't see us getting a majority in the time left unfortunately, but at least the discussion today has been useful.

[Waterbrick Down]

Sandy, on 16 October 2012 - 09:27 PM, said:

So my advice to all of you innocents who are in contact with Hervi is that you double-, triple- and quadruple-check him as well.

I can't ask for anymore.

Hervi, I was under the impression that Posidon and Aphrodite were your confidants in this area of dealing with Artemis and Demeter, but Mursi has now cleared that up.

So where does that leave us? Only a few hours left in the day and the evidence against Gerrid and Bergulf is pretty much equal in their solidarity. So who get's lynched, or will we even get enough votes for a lynch? The only thing that is starting to bother me and this could be said of yesterday as well, is that no one is jumping up to defend either Gerrid or Bergulf (hardly). Where's the scum team to help out when they need them? As people have already commented, they are already down 1 member, I would think they'd be fighting pretty hard to keep their numbers from going any lower.

[Scubacarrot]

Dragonator, on 16 October 2012 - 09:43 PM, said:

To be fair, the conversation certainly got some interesting responses, particularly from Snotra, who was using the distraction to try and gain information about the town roles. I find this incredibly suspicious, and his aggressive defense hasn't helped his case much.

That ain't true and you know it.

[Scouty]

Waterbrick Down, on 16 October 2012 - 09:44 PM, said:

So where does that leave us? Only a few hours left in the day and the evidence against Gerrid and Bergulf is pretty much equal in their solidarity. So who get's lynched, or will we even get enough votes for a lynch? The only thing that is starting to bother me and this could be said of yesterday as well, is that no one is jumping up to defend either Gerrid or Bergulf (hardly). Where's the scum team to help out when they need them? As people have already commented, they are already down 1 member, I would think they'd be fighting pretty hard to keep their numbers from going any lower.

They could be screaming at Gerrid/Bergulf behind the scenes to defend themselves, you know They've both dropped off the map...again. Then there are those who are going in a different direction, like Snotra after Hervi and Stemid after Snotra to split the vote further. I doubt any scum would directly defend these two.

[Dragonator]

Scubacarrot, on 16 October 2012 - 09:48 PM, said:

That ain't true and you know it.

Um, you tried to blackmail Hervi into telling you who Posiedon is, it is most definitely true. This is why you shouldn't let a woman into a manly Hall, they get so confused.

[Scubacarrot]

Dragonator, on 16 October 2012 - 09:56 PM, said:

Um, you tried to blackmail Hervi into telling you who Posiedon is, it is most definitely true. This is why you shouldn't let a woman into a manly Hall, they get so confused.

This sort of thing actually pisses me off. How about you read the damn thing, and then come back. BYE.

[Dragonator]

Scubacarrot, on 16 October 2012 - 09:57 PM, said:

This sort of thing actually pisses me off. How about you read the damn thing, and then come back. BYE.

[Waterbrick Down]

Scouty, on 16 October 2012 - 09:54 PM, said:

They could be screaming at Gerrid/Bergulf behind the scenes to defend themselves, you know They've both dropped off the map...again. Then there are those who are going in a different direction, like Snotra after Hervi and Stemid after Snotra to split the vote further. I doubt any scum would directly defend these two.

Makes sense, darn those servants not being so obvious.

Well in the interest of hopefully clearing up one suspect,

Unvote: Bergulf (badboytje88)

Vote: Gerrid (Captain Genaro)

[Hinckley]

Waterbrick Down, on 16 October 2012 - 09:44 PM, said:

Hervi, I was under the impression that Posidon and Aphrodite were your confidants in this area of dealing with Artemis and Demeter, but Mursi has now cleared that up.

I explained this when someone first asked me who knew about Artemis. Now that we know Chief Mursi is Aphrodite I can be more clear. Chief Mursi is a friend, we tend to talk during these games. When Artemis claimed to me, I used Chief Mursi as a backup, naturally, in case Artemis was lying and felt caught in the lie and had me killed. Then something happened that made me suspect Chief Mursi. On the chance I was being played by Artemis and Chief Mursi, I told Poseidon as well, so I had a double backup. From there, they both knew the story and so they've been advising me since. I need advise during these things, especially when a lot of people are talking to me. It helps clear my head and Chief Mursi has always proven to be good for that. Through out interactions, they both seem on the level and have so far been true to their word. Only time will tell if they can actually be trusted with everything and what side they are on.

[CorneliusMurdock]

Vote: Gerrid (Captain Genaro)

I think he's the best lead for today.  His response didn't seem to clear much up.

[Bob]

Vote: Gerrid (Captain Genaro)

Her responses have been rather lackluster and insufficient, so it's only logical to do so. We'll find out tomorrow if we've made the correct choice.

[TinyPiesRUs]

Vote Count

Hervi Pudding-Head (Hinckley) - 2 votes (Pandora, Scubacarrot)
Dragmall (Dragonator) - 2 votes (badboytje88, Captain Genaro)
Gerrid (Captain Genaro) - 9 votes (fhomess, Fugazi, Hinckley, Scouty, Chromeknight, Dragonator, Waterbrick Down, Cornelius Murdock, Bob)
Bergulf (badboytje88) - 4 votes (Rick, Palathadric, DarkDragon, Etzel)

With a 22 players remaining, a majority of 12 is required to lynch. There are 3 hours left in the day.

(I've got an exam to go to, so I'm afraid someone else will have to lock this topic when the day ends)

[Capt. Redblade]

For reasons he has already outlined, Carl will...

Vote: Bergulf (badboytje88)

Let us hope these personnel conflicts might be resolved in time to reach a conclusion, though Carl doubts it.

[Scubacarrot]

Dragonator, on 16 October 2012 - 09:59 PM, said:

Scubacarrot, on 15 October 2012 - 09:46 PM, said:

snip Look, I understand that if you are telling the truth, you have a lot to juggle and adding one more into that mix will only make that harder. But, here is my reasoning, you and your inferior pantheon want to get Dragonator lynched, correct? But how I see it, you don't have enough votes to make that happen unless you convince people, and you don't want to make it too obvious who is in the little greek book club.

Telling me the identity of Poseidon would serve a long way to proving to me the conveniently appearing deitys are real, and therefore make your whole story more feasible. snip

Hinckley, on 16 October 2012 - 04:34 PM, said:

Well, stay calm. Looking back at it directly your offer is a cross between the two. You said something, paraphrasing, "If you and your inner pantheon want Dragmall lynched, you don't have the votes to achieve that. It would go a long way in convincing me if you gave me the identity of one of the deities and I could confirm your story with then."

First my original quote from the private conversation with Hervi, the second the part he adjusts his statement about exactly this, in thread, not two pages back.

You know, I actually want to see a lynch. I honestly, can't think of a situation at this poinr where a lynch is inferior to no lynch. Unless Gerrid is a power role. In which case I will cry.

Perhaps if is she is innocent it will make some people believe I'm not a total nutcase.

Unvote: Hervi Pudding-Head (Hinckley)

Vote: Gerrid (Captain Genaro)

Gerrid is realistically the only one that can get lynched at this point, anyway.

[fhomess]

Scubacarrot, on 16 October 2012 - 09:20 PM, said:

Right, So Hervi & Pantheon want to get Gerrid lynched. So let's assume in the around 4 hours that this day last they can gather the (by my count, it is a definite possibility I can't count) 7 votes they would still need to get a conviction. What then?

If she is scum? That would be great, would go a fair way to clearing Hervi in my eyes, and of course another scum down.

If she is town? We would have a lynched a sheep. I can't see any other benefit from that.

Keep in mind this is all based on the use of a different font and a slightly more well written part than we have seen before from her, without an explanation from her yet. If that explanation comes, do you think it can sway enough votes to get someone else convicted? Well no, I don't think so. While I would like a good, well written explanation like any other, the change in style is definitely odd, would it mean anything, really?

The case against Gerrid is this:
1. She was the third vote for Bloodaxe on day 1 in an effort to get Bloodaxe to talk. This despite Bloodaxe having just recently been revealed as unavailable and there were already two votes on him.
2. She quickly changed her vote to Danr when her mistake was pointed out, but there was no justification for that vote. To me, it came across as scum trying to hide themselves. I know Einherjar aren't always particularly brave about standing out, but we really don't have anything to hide from each other.
3. Today, she delcared that she felt the need to tell us all that she found some of us trustworthy, and that she wouldn't come to our defense unless needed. This struck me as a way to look helpful without being so. I also haven't seen her defend anyone yet, despite the fact that numerous people have been accused. I think she's scared to stand out.
4. The communication formatting thing? Doesn't mean a thing to me, honestly. I usually think quietly to myself before presenting those thoughts publicly, and this new Valhalla communication system isn't quite as friendly to me in that regard.
As to your note on Hervi being cleared if Gerrid turns up scum, I don't think Gerrid coming up as scum clears Hervi. He was the third vote for Gerrid to this point, and he's spent more time defending himself against you than trying to push for the votes needed to lynch Gerrid.
　

Waterbrick Down, on 16 October 2012 - 09:44 PM, said:

I can't ask for anymore.

Hervi, I was under the impression that Posidon and Aphrodite were your confidants in this area of dealing with Artemis and Demeter, but Mursi has now cleared that up.

So where does that leave us? Only a few hours left in the day and the evidence against Gerrid and Bergulf is pretty much equal in their solidarity. So who get's lynched, or will we even get enough votes for a lynch? The only thing that is starting to bother me and this could be said of yesterday as well, is that no one is jumping up to defend either Gerrid or Bergulf (hardly). Where's the scum team to help out when they need them? As people have already commented, they are already down 1 member, I would think they'd be fighting pretty hard to keep their numbers from going any lower.

As Sveinn says, I wouldn't expect the Servants of Loki to directly defend them. We all saw how that worked out for Danr yesterday. The vote being split is probably all they're hoping to achieve at this point, and we are unfortunately not unified against any one individual.
　

Capt. Redblade, on 16 October 2012 - 10:14 PM, said:

For reasons he has already outlined, Carl will...

Vote: Bergulf (badboytje88)

Let us hope these personnel conflicts might be resolved in time to reach a conclusion, though Carl doubts it.

This doesn't look like the vote of someone who's looking for resolution and conclusion with just a few hours left in the day.

[Sisco]

Ugh, me achin' head...  It seems tha' there actually be a thing as too much ale! But I be sober enough teh see that Gerrid's the best choice fer teday.
Vote: Gerrid (Captain Genaro)

[Scouty]

I urge anybody still present and hasn't done so already, vote for Gerrid. A no-lynch is worse than a false one. We'll only end up more confused and disjointed tomorrow if we don't succeed in making a lynch. As if it's possible to get any more confusing than this day has proved to be !!

[CallMePie]

Since it'll get us answers, and since apparently this Hervi/Dragmall issue's completely vanished ( ), I'll Vote: Gerrid (Captain Genaro). Today's been a helpful day, as far as information goes.

[Captain Genaro]

Scouty, on 16 October 2012 - 08:11 PM, said:

I've looked over the case of Gerrid and his subtlety through the day makes me suspicious of him. What convinced me was his post voting for Dragmall. It looked to be like a vote cast a time a scum would want to cast their vote. A subtle nod in when things were going against Dragmall.
This is the strongest thing I can pick out from the day among the mass confusion.
Vote: Gerrid (Captain Genaro)

The strongest thing that you can pick out is that I was the 4^th person to vote for Dragmall? This qualifies me as being scum?  I could make a good case for scum voting for someone at just about any time. If you give me a minute, I'll come up with a whole list of people that you should be investigating because they are "subtle". If that is seriously your strongest argument, you might want to re-read today.

Chromeknight, on 16 October 2012 - 08:49 PM, said:

The question that hasn't been asked yet is, if Gerrid has been coached, who by?
Until that happens, I'm putting my marker on him to turn the screw a notch.
vote:Gerrid(captain Genaro)

Why do you think that I’ve been coached? Besides the fact that my reply seemed “subdued”, is there any evidence as to how I am being coached? Besides, if Hervi is coaching Bergulf, why wouldn’t you focus on one of them?

Dragonator, on 16 October 2012 - 09:43 PM, said:

However, I think the best decision for today is to Vote: Gerrid (Captain Genaro).

Can I ask why you are voting for me? Do you have any reason to vote for me other than you want to see someone lynched? Is there any legitimate argument for lynching me or are you always going to jump on the bandwagon to see townies lynched?

Waterbrick Down, on 16 October 2012 - 10:00 PM, said:

Well in the interest of hopefully clearing up one suspect,
Vote: Gerrid (Captain Genaro)

Is this typical of your style, voting without evidence just to "clear a suspect"? Call me crazy but I think that there are better ways to "clear suspects" instead of mass lynchings.

CorneliusMurdock, on 16 October 2012 - 10:05 PM, said:

Vote: Gerrid (Captain Genaro)
I think he's the best lead for today.  His response didn't seem to clear much up.

Can you tell me what part doesn’t clear things up for you? It’s hard for me to defend myself when I don’t have any idea as to what is confusing you.

fhomess, on 16 October 2012 - 10:34 PM, said:

The case against Gerrid is this:
1. She was the third vote for Bloodaxe on day 1 in an effort to get Bloodaxe to talk. This despite Bloodaxe having just recently been revealed as unavailable and there were already two votes on him.
2. She quickly changed her vote to Danr when her mistake was pointed out, but there was no justification for that vote. To me, it came across as scum trying to hide themselves. I know Einherjar aren't always particularly brave about standing out, but we really don't have anything to hide from each other.
3. Today, she delcared that she felt the need to tell us all that she found some of us trustworthy, and that she wouldn't come to our defense unless needed. This struck me as a way to look helpful without being so. I also haven't seen her defend anyone yet, despite the fact that numerous people have been accused. I think she's scared to stand out.
4. The communication formatting thing? Doesn't mean a thing to me, honestly. I usually think quietly to myself before presenting those thoughts publicly, and this new Valhalla communication system isn't quite as friendly to me in that regard.

Allow me to respond the the four claims against me.
1) I did not realize that Bloodbrick was gone when I posted. I have said this time and time again.
2) What else should I have done? I thought that I had to vote, voting for someone else would have been pointless and would have only lead to more arguments amongst us townies.\
3) Right now I'm a little more worried about my own defense than defending random people who I have no reason to believe are townies. I'm not going to defend Dragmall or Hervi, neither of them has won my trust and their whole debate has only futher muddied the waters.
4) Seriously, back the tone thing? To be honest, I thoght that using an aggressive tone would come across as a scared, super defensive tone. For this reason, I tried to soften it so that people could not come out and say "look, he's acting all aggressive and angry! He must be scum because only scum act aggressive when accused by townies!". Obviously, some of us were able to find a flaw in a defensive tone too.

Is there anyone I missed? Anyone? I think that I answered all of your attacks but if there are any I missed let me know.

[Fugazi]

Captain Genaro, on 16 October 2012 - 11:30 PM, said:

Allow me to respond the the four claims against me.
1) I did not realize that Bloodbrick was gone when I posted. I have said this time and time again.
2) What else should I have done? I thought that I had to vote, voting for someone else would have been pointless and would have only lead to more arguments amongst us townies.\
3) Right now I'm a little more worried about my own defense than defending random people who I have no reason to believe are townies. I'm not going to defend Dragmall or Hervi, neither of them has won my trust and their whole debate has only futher muddied the waters.
4) Seriously, back the tone thing? To be honest, I thoght that using an aggressive tone would come across as a scared, super defensive tone. For this reason, I tried to soften it so that people could not come out and say "look, he's acting all aggressive and angry! He must be scum because only scum act aggressive when accused by townies!". Obviously, some of us were able to find a flaw in a defensive tone too.

You're becoming completely unreadable now. Are you trying to tell us that you're losing your voice?