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#26 Meatman

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 08:59 PM

What about if people want to give the instructions away for free and not charge? Do you still host them or charge them for using your convenience?

#27 Dannnohhh

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 10:41 PM

Multiple thumbs up! :thumbup: :thumbup: Can't wait to see the site progress.

Speaking from experience in purchasing various instructions from those much better at Technic MOCs then myself, sometimes its painless (crowkillers), but other times the process of paying for and then downloading or receiving the instructions has been a headache. This will definitely fill a void!

#28 Paul Boratko

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 11:23 PM

Meatman, this is definitely a great way to organize MOC instructions and also give the user management over their account... People will be able to upload whatever instructions they want and choose their own price... Chase already has a lot of time and money invested in this project and I think it is a positive step in the right direction... Sure, there may be some bugs that will need to be worked out in the beginning, but as long as Chase has the right people helping and supporting, then it will make things easier... I can see at first how this may seem like what Rebrickable is already doing, but it will actually offer alternate things that the user will be able to do and also work along side with what Nathan Thom's fantastic website...

Edited by Paul Boratko, 12 October 2012 - 11:24 PM.

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#29 timslegos

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 11:44 PM

I love the idea of this website, I hope you can make an awesome site!  I am interested in how you are making money off this and if there will be a fee for builders to host instructions.

tim

#30 technicmad

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 01:14 AM

First let me wish you good luck with your site.

Now, I have looked into creating a marketplace like this on Rebrickable and in fact built a lot of it but decided not to release anything at this stage. Mainly because I'd prefer to keep most of the stuff on my site free and was concerned that it would get flooded with paid MOCs and diminish the sites value. I do have some MOCs on there that are paid, but I provide links to the authors own site or host the files for them. I think most of them don't actually have a site and just give instructions via email for paying and receiving the files manually. Bricklink is another alternative that is being used, but again is not an automatic pay/download system. There are many non-LEGO specific ones out there, so you would have to add features that are LEGO specific to distinguish yourself. The other problem is that most instructions are sold very cheaply, so taking a commission of that can be difficult and using paypal etc to make the payments take big fat fees out of everything.

Don't want to sound pessimistic, it's just that I've already given this a lot of thought :) I look forward to seeing what you do with the idea.

#31 nychase

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 03:32 PM

View Postskppo, on 12 October 2012 - 09:21 AM, said:

It would help collecting the pieces if it worked with Rebrickable. The system it has is really helpful to see how much you need to buy.

That is absolutlely planned.  I think many people utilize Nathan's system so it will be planned from the onset.

View PostStrikeman, on 12 October 2012 - 01:43 PM, said:

Also in combination with Basebrick, as I have my complete inventory on that website.

I am not as familair with Basebrick but I will look into having it integrated into the many inventory systems.

View PostAlasdair Ryan, on 12 October 2012 - 05:44 PM, said:

Will there be a monthly fee for a designer to share his/her moc?

There will not be a monthly fee for the designer to share their MOC.  Ideally, there will only be fees on the sold instructions and I will be upfront in saying it will be slightly cheaper than ebay.  

View Postskyliner, on 12 October 2012 - 07:28 PM, said:

I like the idea..........i have sold MOC instructions on ebay............many of the buyers are great, however a minority play the system to get the instructions for free, which is very annoying.  Look forward to it.

Glad to hear you are interested Skyliner.  The hope is that talented designers with little web skills will be able to fully realize the value of the models and instructions they create.

View PostMeatman, on 12 October 2012 - 08:59 PM, said:

What about if people want to give the instructions away for free and not charge? Do you still host them or charge them for using your convenience?

Your question gave me pause as I hadn't yet considered it.  That being said, I think its really up to the designers.  If they choose to not charge for the instructions then they did quite a bit of work for nothing (except maybe building a fan-base).  It wont bother me in the slightest as the increased cost of hosting is quite minimal and spreading the word is still better.  I can see many people choosing to offer certain designs for free and then charging as they have more followers.  

More on this in my reply bellow to Nathan

View Posttechnicmad, on 13 October 2012 - 01:14 AM, said:

First let me wish you good luck with your site.

Now, I have looked into creating a marketplace like this on Rebrickable and in fact built a lot of it but decided not to release anything at this stage. Mainly because I'd prefer to keep most of the stuff on my site free and was concerned that it would get flooded with paid MOCs and diminish the sites value. I do have some MOCs on there that are paid, but I provide links to the authors own site or host the files for them. I think most of them don't actually have a site and just give instructions via email for paying and receiving the files manually. Bricklink is another alternative that is being used, but again is not an automatic pay/download system. There are many non-LEGO specific ones out there, so you would have to add features that are LEGO specific to distinguish yourself. The other problem is that most instructions are sold very cheaply, so taking a commission of that can be difficult and using paypal etc to make the payments take big fat fees out of everything.

Don't want to sound pessimistic, it's just that I've already given this a lot of thought :) I look forward to seeing what you do with the idea.

Nathan,

Thank you for your thoughts on the issue.  I certainly understand why this may provide functionality that would clash with your current model for Rebrickable.  I see our two site complimenting eachother quite nicely so we will need to talk about that further (privately).

Part of the draw to this system is that the users will gain instant access to the instructions they purchase.  The solution we have implemented (and are testing) is a compltely bespoke solution for handling that aspect as we deem it to be paramount to the sites success.  In addition we will allow paypal to be used as a payment form but we also have a full merchant account allowing for direct payment methods (which will be adventageous with more people buying more instructions).

As far as the commisions goes... the goal of the site is really to just break-even.  I really wasn't intending on creating a cash cow by taking a fee from designers and I feel that the nominal amount I am going to charge reflects that goal.


Another thing I need to mention to everyone is that there will also be security measures in place to strongly detur pirating of this copyrighted material.  The last thing I want to do is create a system that leaves everyone just as vulnerable as they currently are to people ripping off their creations.
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#32 DLuders

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 01:51 AM

[BUMP]

View PostBlakbird, on 10 December 2012 - 11:23 PM, said:

The instructions [for RoscoPC's Lego Technic Racecars]are complete. They will be available through MOCPlans when the site is unveiled.

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"Hello world!

"Since we unveiled our idea to build a marketplace for MOC (my own creation) Lego instructions in September 2012, we’ve had some phenomenal interest, comments and inquiries.
While, we expect an expeditious initial build phase to launch the first version of our website, its not going to happen overnight. As many Lego enthusiasts know, building something worthwhile takes diligence, planning, forethought and time.

"So, rather than go into a cave for months, we decided to be open and transparent during our development process.

"There are benefits to this:
• We can test ideas, features and engage in conversation and collaboration with fellow enthusiasts
• We can invite early adopters to test features
• Designers interested in selling their MOC instructions will not only get a feel for the platform as it shapes up but also insight (and hopefully trust) into our intentions and goals.

"Onward,
MOCplans Team"

#33 piterx

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 08:36 AM

sorry guys im not here to ruin your party but:
i think that when you build something you're actually earning something (having fun in this case)
why is everyone so happy to pay or get payed for instructions?
i mean, i have an awesome concept in my mind for a remote gearbox and clutch...in some days ill check if it works and then, if it works, ill SHARE it TOTALLY FREE with you all !!!
in my opinion selling instructions is only going to increase "industrial espionage" between builders...and we're only gonna have more topics titled "that guy copied this" "that guy copied that"
increasing also jealousy between builders because: lets suppose i build something and i expect to earn some money right?
Then here comes the Dude who bought my first idea, develops it better and gains 10 times what i gained using my idea...that's not gonna be nice, you know what im saying :P?

The point is that to me knowledge has to be free so everyone can benefit of it... but i understand that many of you would like to see their "time" converted into money :)
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#34 legolijntje

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 08:45 AM

I have to partly agree with you.
The builders also have to spend money and time for their bricks and making the instructions. So, they want somethings more than only many good compliments. I do understand why they ask a small amount of money. And why would you bother if you can build a great moc with that instructions?
And btw, there are still many, many builders who have free instructions, fo rexample, take a look at rebrickable. :wink:

But I really like the builders who have some instructions for free, and some instructions paid.

Lego sets aren't free either, are they? :tongue:

#35 piterx

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 09:16 AM

yeah you're right
but what's gonna happen when sariel (just an example) will give instructions for free and someone will use part of those instructions to make money :tongue: ?
i leave it to your imagination lol
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#36 PsyKater

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 09:32 AM

It would be a IP issue. Depends on the licence Sariel has given his instructions for free. For free does not mean unlimited use. :wink:
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#37 hrontos

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 10:18 AM

Talking about IP and licence and similar stuff.

Did you take into account, that all current software (LDRAW, LPub, LDD, ...) permits only non-commercial use?

You actually cannot sell instructions without violating EULAs of those applications.

The only instructions that can be sold are photo-based, not created by software.

It is widely tolerated, that instructions made using LDRAW are sold, but I expect that it is only to a certain level and starting making money this way may disapoint those many volunteers working on LDRAW parts for free.

#38 PsyKater

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 11:02 AM

Good point. Interesting for Cuusoo entries as well :wink:

Edited by PsyKater, 11 December 2012 - 11:02 AM.

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#39 DLuders

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 02:38 PM

I don't have a problem for paying for quality Building Instructions.  "Time is money". Many of the contributors to the MOCPlans website ALREADY HAVE the model, but took the time to prepare the difficult Building Instructions to allow others to build those creations too.  They could have used their time to work on other things, but may have thought that by GETTING COMPENSATION for their time, they could afford to buy more Lego parts, go out to dinner, etc.

If yoiu don't want to pay for Building Instructions, then don't!  You're missing out on some GREAT Lego creations, however.

#40 hrontos

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 03:07 PM

Of course, building by instructions prepared by more experienced builder is a very good way of learning how to build complex models. Especially younger builders can learn much faster this way. It saves a lot of time and since time is money, small portion of the savings should go to the original MOCer.

I agree also that MOCer learns something and that's why he makes a MOC. Spending a month by studying materials for his MOC is a good time for him and he learns. That's why many people do it and share the pictures, videos and credit in the community is their satisfaction.

But that second month needed for preparation of a quality building instructions is just a lost of time for him in a favour of the community. Hat off to those guys, who do it completely for free. That's a real community spirit.

For me it is ok, when MOCer asks some money for the preparation of the instructions. Amounts are similar to price of some movie DVD, but the fun time is much more than just 2 hours watching.

MOCer just should not forget about those people, that made the good software, that allows you to spent only a month with the preparation of the instructions. :classic:

And he also should not forget, that not only LEGO, LEGO logo and others fall into some kind of play fair policy. Also Ferrari, LandRover, Buggatti, JCB, Komatsu, CAT and many others are trademarks and should not be used without any credits/permission. LEGO does not permit unwanted asociation with LEGO and these companies probably also do not.

#41 Paul Boratko

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 03:14 PM

The subject of selling instructions has been beaten into the ground over and over again and it mainly comes down the person who designed the MOC... Whenever I build something I always try and post as many detailed pictures as I can so that anyone with average skill could reproduce the models without instructions, so if I already am spending my time doing that, what is the point in Eric and I collaberating together and spending countless hours to publish good looking step by step instructions..? There really is no incentive since I have already provided what is needed in the first place...

Then you must take into consideration what kind of money that the designers are paying to provide their service to the world... Perhaps some of them are paying yearly fees for an ad free website, or have to pay monthly compensation to a webmaster who services their site... It's easy for everyone to come along and say "I would never charge money" until you are in certain situations that may call for it, or countless e-mails constantly asking for instructions...

Edited by Paul Boratko, 11 December 2012 - 03:17 PM.

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#42 natesroom

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 04:22 PM

*I think this a good idea and I'm not even a technic builder. I also think that you should at least get some exposure over in the LEGO Historic Themes section. I know your mainly focused on Technic, but if you can even have 4 people jump on board, from each forum you will not only increase your fanbase but also traffic. Most of the time when i see a good technic model i don't usually follow it anywhere as I'm never going to build it or even try. However, if you have Castle or some other photos that i see, i may follow that link to your website, thus generating more traffic.

#43 Meatman

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 05:32 PM

I don't have any problems paying a few dollars for instructions, in fact I feel that anyone that goes out of their way to do instructions deserves to have some form of compensation. However, if I pay for instructions, I would expect the quality of the instructions to be very good as well as the model itself. I think what is going to happen once the MOCplans takes off is that you are going to have people coming out of the woodwork looking to peddle just about anything. So I would expect some form of rating system to be in place so people don't get upset when they purchase something that is less than stellar.

View Postpiterx, on 11 December 2012 - 08:36 AM, said:

sorry guys im not here to ruin your party but:
i think that when you build something you're actually earning something (having fun in this case)
why is everyone so happy to pay or get payed for instructions?
i mean, i have an awesome concept in my mind for a remote gearbox and clutch...in some days ill check if it works and then, if it works, ill SHARE it TOTALLY FREE with you all !!!
in my opinion selling instructions is only going to increase "industrial espionage" between builders...and we're only gonna have more topics titled "that guy copied this" "that guy copied that"
increasing also jealousy between builders because: lets suppose i build something and i expect to earn some money right?
Then here comes the Dude who bought my first idea, develops it better and gains 10 times what i gained using my idea...that's not gonna be nice, you know what im saying :P?

The point is that to me knowledge has to be free so everyone can benefit of it... but i understand that many of you would like to see their "time" converted into money :)

People have been building and selling other people's designs for quite some time now and instructions were not even involved. That is wonderful if you are so willing to share your designs as I am certain that many people will appreciate it, but not everyone is in the same position that you are.

As far as the "industrial Espionage" goes, people have been doing instructions for quite some time now, and I have yet to see anyone accuse anyone else of stealing their ideas or plans. Most credible builders more than likely would never stoop so low.

#44 Andy D

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 05:54 PM

I found this thread by accident.  I notice that you seem to be focused on Technic.  I believe this concept would be great for all themes.  Instead of having all this conversation in just the Technic forum, maybe try to get some exposure in the in the "General Discussion and News" forum so more people might read about it.

Good luck with the venture, I hope to see some fantastic MOC's available for the rest of us who are not at the same design and implementation level.  I learn by assembling sets, MOC instructions would have the same effect for me.

Andy D

Edited by Andy D, 11 December 2012 - 05:57 PM.

Less spending, more building is my plan for 2012!
Get organized and build more is my plan for 2013!
Just build more is my plan for 2014! (Good luck with that!)
Neatness counts!
Let's go sorting

#45 Alasdair Ryan

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 06:06 PM

View PostAndy D, on 11 December 2012 - 05:54 PM, said:

I found this thread by accident.

*huh* It is on the 1st page of the technic section.....
Do you not read all of the new topics? :shrug_oh_well:
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Updated 10/03/15
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#46 nychase

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 09:31 PM

To all those comments wondering about other Themed MOC's.

Of course I will open the site up to MOC's of all types.  Priority was put on Technic/Model Team primarily because the people in this section know me and I know them.  It was logical to try to launch the site with the people I know so that if there were any issues I could solve them on a small scale before opening up the site to the public at large.  


If anyone is curious how DLuders even found out about the blog update on the main page of MOCplans???  The only thing I changed was my signature 2 days ago....quite the curious fellow!  Thats why we all count on him as our Technic News aggrigator....better than any RSS feed!
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#47 DLuders

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 01:17 AM

View Postnychase, on 11 December 2012 - 09:31 PM, said:

anyone curious how DLuders even found out about the blog update on the main page of MOCplans???  

It was Blakbird's post about the RoscoPC plans being completed that tipped me off.

#48 Sato

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 08:25 PM

Nychase, Are free instructions with the possibility of making a donation to the designer something that will be supported by Mocplans?
If not, Have you thought about incorporating this?

#49 Tomik

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 11:45 PM

Nychase, I like your idea and I'm courios about result. I have been thinking about something similar (in smaller scale) since I began operating website with instructions for my alternative models. Unfortunately I was not skilled enough to program such website so I'm looking forward to yours.
My website with building instructions for alternative models - buildinst
My mocpages
My brickshelf gallery
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#50 mobi

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 05:17 PM

Great initiative. Can you also provide an option to buy the parts necessary as well?

Hobbyists like me who do not own too many sets, the barrier of making good MOCs is lack of having all necessary parts.





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