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10233 Horizon Express


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#176 mikka says

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 09:46 AM

i know it's a bit heartbreaking for diehard TGV fans that the scheme isnt properly represented, but you'll just have to deal with it of modify the parts included.
it was exactly the same with the emerald night. the colour scheme was wrong. we dealt with it.

and considering it isn't a scale model (this taking into account None of TLG's trains are scale models in any respect) i think Lego have the artistic liscence to bring it up to the standard of their city sets, and to give it a modern look....

also,notice the trian staff minifigures are in the "Lego Rail" outfits and not SNCF ones, so im sure that this is supposed to be a TGV for Legoland, not a french one....

#177 legotrainfan

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 09:55 AM

I am speechless because of the epic grandeur of this unique and magnificent set! I haven't bought a LEGO set for quite a while, but I this one is a must-have! Of course, I'll need two sets to make the train look complete!
[...]
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Tread softly because you tread on my dreams.
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#178 Klaus-Dieter

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 05:20 PM

Thank you very much for this information and these pics, Rick, and for the link to the video, grogall! :classic:

I have to admit that I have prefered a City Exclusive (something like a new Town Plan) or at least a big and decent train station (which is since decades overdue) over a new train. :cry_sad:

Nevertheless this train does look absolutely amazing! :wub: :wub: :wub:  

Con:
-no engine at the back
-only four passengers

Pro:
-no tracks included (since you don't need tons of curved tracks)
-PF functions can (supposably) be easily added
-amazing exterior design
-finally a decent on-board restaurant
-awesome interior

I can't await to get this brilliant set! :thumbup:


Klaus-Dieter

Edited by Klaus-Dieter, 02 October 2012 - 05:24 PM.


#179 legostyle

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 05:30 PM

I  :wub: :wub: :wub:   this set also !!!
As a hugh TGV fan I'm so happy with this set.

There are many great details into the train and it looks really nice to the original one.
This was the first TGV and the most people knows the TGV al over the world.
The first commercial high speed train.
The power functions are nice concealed and you can put lights into it, just change the slopes of the lights into red so you have a backside :sweet: beautiful conceaved.

But now is my version not special anymore :cry_sad: ........ :laugh: :tongue: :tongue:  


10233 live photo's

The creator expert is a new word, thats the only difference for next year.

#180 JopieK

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 06:04 PM

Tiles are indeed printed, rest are stickers... Good for us ;)

Nice part that tile with 'inverted studs'!!!

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#181 Brickviller

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 06:17 PM

This might be my only Lego box that I will buy in a very long time..But only if the price stays the same

#182 zephyr1934

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 05:39 AM

While it is good to see Lego producing trains for AFOLs, this release underscores one of the big problems of how Lego actually supports the AFOL trains. They need to do a better job providing the track. Sure, if you are reading this forum you probably have a ton of track already. But if you are contemplating getting into Lego trains you don't have any track.

If price point is critical, reduce the number of minifigs in the set and replace them with 8 sections of straight track (this criticism is true for the Emerald Night and Maersk train as well). I think straight track would be a lot closer to the Creator theme than minifigures. Almost everyone who buys this set could probably make use of the straight track, while only some could use the minifigs. Worse, after you've bought your second set, you now have twins of all four figs.

I would think a minimal layout would have 16x curves and 24x straight (just enough for six cars to straighten out). If you were new to the hobby, you wouldn't even know to look in PAB for the track at $3 a segment, so you would not have any option to buy curved track (assuming you also did not know to look on bricklink). Even if you did find the track in PAB, it would cost another $120 for the simple loop or $36 to have 12 straight track segments for display.

Coinciding with the release of this set, Lego should also offer track packs by type (just straight track, and separately just curved track) bagged as S@H exclusives like the PF components that are already available. The discontinued RC train track pack had 16 segments for $16. That would be a good price point if they were all one type of track (hint to lego- you will sell more straight track than curved track but you need to also need to sell curved track). Of course you can already get six straight track segments for $5 or six curve track segments for $5 from S@H... if you are shopping for duplo.

If lego wants to foster more train AFOLs they should make it easier for builders to acquire the track they need, without bundling it with track they don't want. The current way Lego sells track is just a deterrent to prospective AFOL train enthusiasts.

#183 Kaila

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 01:05 PM

Have to agree with Zephyr on this issue, straight track is like gold...   Recently been collecting so many train sets from the 80's and 90's and I have a mountain of circular track but hardly any straight. For that matter I wonder which 80's set included the most straight lengths?? Could it be 7740 with 6?

Anyways I'll still be buying at least one 10233
Ninjago? Your kidding right.. . .
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#184 nesquik

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 09:17 PM

View Postzephyr1934, on 03 October 2012 - 05:39 AM, said:

While it is good to see Lego producing trains for AFOLs, this release underscores one of the big problems of how Lego actually supports the AFOL trains. They need to do a better job providing the track. Sure, if you are reading this forum you probably have a ton of track already. But if you are contemplating getting into Lego trains you don't have any track [...]
If lego wants to foster more train AFOLs they should make it easier for builders to acquire the track they need, without bundling it with track they don't want. The current way Lego sells track is just a deterrent to prospective AFOL train enthusiasts.

With respect, I think you miss the point. The reason this product does appeal to AFOL's is for exactly the reasons you point out; the train is designed to compliment existing layouts or set-ups.

The product paradigm exists to satisfy both playability and expansion. Whereas the City train products are 'all in' and have everything included to get the user up and running, Exclusive trains have always been regarded as an option for those who have bought a City train product (with its track) or own a 9V system.

Therefore, by only including the train itself, the customer has more flexibility and at a lower retail price.

#185 GRogall

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 09:32 PM

Here is the S@H link for the set!

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#186 dr_spock

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 09:35 PM

I bought a bunch of tracks separately last year.   It was not that difficult.   Not including track or motor is not going to stop most of us from getting this train or future ones.

#187 zephyr1934

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 02:19 AM

View Posttom-cat, on 11 October 2012 - 09:17 PM, said:

With respect, I think you miss the point. The reason this product does appeal to AFOL's is for exactly the reasons you point out; the train is designed to compliment existing layouts or set-ups.

...

Therefore, by only including the train itself, the customer has more flexibility and at a lower retail price.

I would agree with you with regards to serving the existing AFOL train builders. However, if Lego only serves the existing population without providing an attractive avenue for new builders to enter the hobby, our numbers will dwindle, sales will fall off, and Lego will stop making trains for AFOLs.

I spent the 1990's looking at the train sets aimed at kids and sighed, "why didn't they have those in the U.S. when I was a kid?" As an adult I never once thought of buying one of those sets for myself.

If you are reading this forum you are an AFOL and you probably have 10+ lego train sets or at least know that you can go to bricklink to buy just the parts you want. If you are new to the hobby, you might not have anything.

Put yourself in the shoes of a newcomer who might be a railfan and have a passing interest in Lego. You see the Horizon Express and it gets your attention, but as someone new to the hobby it is not clear how you would buy a loop of track. The only obvious path to curved track at S@H is buying one of the City train sets. Even if the $3/segment price was not an issue, most newcomers would never dig deep enough to discover that that you can buy curved track from PAB.

Lego needs to provide an easy and straightforward avenue for the newcomers to the hobby to get a satisfying loop of track or a segment of straight track to display the set on. It needs to be simple and obvious (e.g., a track bundle) or Lego will turn away a lot of potential AFOL train builders who are not currently in the hobby.

So yes, it is fantastic to see a new AFOL train set, but this release is also an opportunity to fix a problem with track availability that has lingered since the end of the 9V era (remember you could order one of several different track combinations back then, or simply a box of 8 straight segments). The fix for the newcomers will also serve the existing AFOL builders and kids with a City train set better. The high priced track bundles that include parts that you don't want are a disincentive to entering the hobby. Like the S@H PF component exclusives, lego should have a plastic wrapped pack of straight track available, and separately, a plastic wrapped pack of curved track available.

#188 nesquik

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 11:17 AM

Well, I can only go by the Lego store where I work. Every week we have parents who ask (both for themselves and on behalf of their children) whether we "just sell the trains on their own", and it's borderline embarrassing having to big-up the Maersk Train as a viable option. The license has made it more expensive than it should be, and when the guests are told how much it costs, they can't see the value. At least with the Horizon Express, not only is it a bit cheaper, but the customer has more options to expand the product.

The track is another issue, however. In order to maximise profits, TLG have consolidated track packs because we weren't selling enough of each variety when more options were available.

#189 Toastie

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 04:11 PM

I have followed this discussion before and after the big bang and find it very interesting. I completely agree with Zypher on most what he said before, and nesquik's observations (very valuable to see the entire discussion from this particular perspective!) do support Zypher's comments as well.

The one thing that may be worth a thought is: TLG is maximizing profit, and yes they have to, and this is the way they are playing the game. So far so good, no problems here. However, maximizing profit in a world without competition isn't very hard to do. All we are doing is shouting at someone who is in a very, very comfortable position. Or let's say we are trying to convice that someone with ever increasing effort - but no success. In contrast. Times have been better with straights sold separately for example. But that was overall more expensive for that someone.

Why is that possible in todays world of "making the most out of everything you can think of"? Well, there is no competition. I believe that is all. And in LEGO stores there'll never be. Or in retail stores.

I'd love to see a completely independent track system fully compatible with L-gauge. Not with the LEGO track connectors - that may cause IP trouble or at leat cause legal issues with big brother. Just the gauge. Adapters may serve as connectors between the two systems. And I hope (and believe) that BBB's coming up alternative is exactly that. It just depends on how to get that effciently distributed so that TLG "feels" something. :classic:

Regards,
Thorsten

#190 Zilcho

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 05:39 PM

This may seem a stupid question but will this train run on the same tracks as the others?

#191 MadManMingo

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 06:53 PM

Your right. But yes, it will run on the standard rails, since it has the standard axles. Jamie also tells you can add a motor to make it run like the other trains.

#192 Kaila

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 05:01 AM

View PostToastie, on 12 October 2012 - 04:11 PM, said:

I have followed this discussion before and after the big bang and find it very interesting. I completely agree with Zypher on most what he said before, and nesquik's observations (very valuable to see the entire discussion from this particular perspective!) do support Zypher's comments as well.

The one thing that may be worth a thought is: TLG is maximizing profit, and yes they have to, and this is the way they are playing the game. So far so good, no problems here. However, maximizing profit in a world without competition isn't very hard to do. All we are doing is shouting at someone who is in a very, very comfortable position. Or let's say we are trying to convice that someone with ever increasing effort - but no success. In contrast. Times have been better with straights sold separately for example. But that was overall more expensive for that someone.

Why is that possible in todays world of "making the most out of everything you can think of"? Well, there is no competition. I believe that is all. And in LEGO stores there'll never be. Or in retail stores.

I'd love to see a completely independent track system fully compatible with L-gauge. Not with the LEGO track connectors - that may cause IP trouble or at leat cause legal issues with big brother. Just the gauge. Adapters may serve as connectors between the two systems. And I hope (and believe) that BBB's coming up alternative is exactly that. It just depends on how to get that effciently distributed so that TLG "feels" something. :classic:

Regards,
Thorsten

Spot on, can't agree more with your sentiments.
Ninjago? Your kidding right.. . .
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#193 Legofin2012

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 01:48 PM

love the arrows
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#194 zephyr1934

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 04:30 PM

Here's a question for you, with two Horizon Express sets back to back (and all the brick built walls), do you think one PF motor at the front (the apparent design) will be enough to power this 6 unit train? Or will a user need to get a second motor and a polarity switch to slip a second motor under the lead car/engine to make this train go?

#195 Freddie

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 05:57 PM

I've seen what PF-motors are capable of, so one will be enough to move the train (not to mention, it's not that heavy). But, you'll have to replace the leading bogie on the other head unit to normal train wheels, instead of the technic based wheels used there. The friction there might be the real killer, and not the weight.

#196 domboy

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 08:19 PM

View PostFreddie, on 18 October 2012 - 05:57 PM, said:

I've seen what PF-motors are capable of, so one will be enough to move the train (not to mention, it's not that heavy). But, you'll have to replace the leading bogie on the other head unit to normal train wheels, instead of the technic based wheels used there. The friction there might be the real killer, and not the weight.

I had that thought myself. Only trouble with that is right out of the box that won't be possible, unless Lego includes two extra regular train wheels. Probably not a problem for most people on this forum of course...

#197 Lazarus

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 03:40 AM

I will be making my 2 sets = 1 train 9v, might need two motors we will see how it is on the bends.

Cant wait for the new year.

I will be making my 2 sets = 1 train 9v, might need two motors we will see how it is on the bends.

Cant wait for the new year.

#198 antp

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 12:09 AM

On the Lego Shop it is now listed, but in BE & NL it is 10 € more expensive than in neighbouring countries :/ (FR & DE)

#199 Pet-Lego

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 12:05 PM

View Postantp, on 20 October 2012 - 12:09 AM, said:

On the Lego Shop it is now listed, but in BE & NL it is 10 € more expensive than in neighbouring countries :/ (FR & DE)

I see, well that's no fun. Why would it be € 10,- more for the dutch speaking fans?
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#200 lostdriveway

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 02:28 AM

I'm quite happy that the AUS price is $159 compared to the US price of $129 - normally it would be double so thats not bad at all!

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