23 replies to this topic

[Selander]

It seems the brand new PF L-motor can make a nice power source for MOC engine builders.
I made a few concepts as a start and hope you trainheads can come up with more ideas  

Here's the first concept.
As can be seen you can make a simple and robust construction with just a few parts.
This has got a 20T to 12T gearing. If o-rings are changed a plate can be added underneath.




Here's the second concept, which is almost same except for adding an extra stud to get an uneven wheel spacing.
Wheels are BBB medium and becuase of the extra height an extra plate can be attached underneath.
I completed this concept with battery and IR-receiver for a test run - and it has got good speed on "full throttle"  




For even more speed, this concept with 36T to 12T gearing should give a nice boost.
Due to the size of 36T, it might however be problematic to add a third center axle (if wanted).
Its worth to mention again how few parts are needed and yet it's a robust construction.



Comments and new proposals are welcome !

Next I'll build a complete locomotove using one of the above concepts for motorization.

[questforcastle]

Looks great! And simple.

Would you or someone minds informing an AFOL newbie, just very roughly, how the L-motor and other PF motors differ from each other? Do they have some particular uses they were designed for?

Thanks.

[hoeij]

questforcastle, on 26 August 2012 - 01:58 PM, said:

Looks great! And simple.

Would you or someone minds informing an AFOL newbie, just very roughly, how the L-motor and other PF motors differ from each other? Do they have some particular uses they were designed for?

Thanks.

L motor:  about the same speed as the M motor, but much more torque
XL motor: turns slower, but has much more torque still

For a more precise answer, see:  http://www.philohome...s/motorcomp.htm

Edited by hoeij, 27 August 2012 - 01:41 PM.

[questforcastle]

hoeij, on 27 August 2012 - 01:40 PM, said:

L motor:  about the same speed as the M motor, but much more torque
XL motor: turns slower, but has much more torque still

For a more precise answer, see:  http://www.philohome...s/motorcomp.htm

Ah yes, so M = medium, L = large, XL = extra large kind of. Thank you very much for the summary and the link!

[LEGO Train 12 Volts]

Very clever technique! Thanks for your tips!

[Nix Mills]

I'd be curious to see how it performs compared to the regular train motor or to the XL motor.

[hoeij]

Nix Mills, on 29 August 2012 - 02:01 AM, said:

I'd be curious to see how it performs compared to the regular train motor or to the XL motor.

It'll probably make the Emerald Night go quite a bit faster.  But I heard it'll be until March
that one can buy them separately.

[Phoxtane]

What about setting the L-Motor on its side? You could get some stronger gears in there, or perhaps even use a chain drive.

[Mark Bellis]

hoeij, on 29 August 2012 - 01:58 PM, said:

It'll probably make the Emerald Night go quite a bit faster.  But I heard it'll be until March
that one can buy them separately.

I tried an L-motor in the Emerald night.  Seems to be a good balance between the M-motor that was not powerful enough and the XL motor that was too slow.  Power is just less than 2x M-motors and speed just less than 1x M-motor.  I didn't try equalising speed with a train motor in the tender or adjacent carriage though - that is necessary for best multiple working because a steam engine would often pull more heavy coaches than the amount of torque its driving wheels could transmit, so a train motor or two in the tender or first carriage is usually needed.  My Hogwarts Express has 2 train motors under the tender and 2 more under the first carriage.

For a diesel or electric loco an L-motor on each bogie should give plenty of torque.  Might need more grip to pull heavy trains though.  Real railways rely on adhesion weight so either add weight to a single loco or use more locos.  Find a good gear ratio balance that pulls a heavy train at about 60mph with your chosen wheels.  You might need more motors to go faster but I don't often go much faster for long at a show.

I'm working on a UK Class 08 shunting loco using an L-motor for power and an M-motor to control a 3-function gearbox.  High ratio is overall 5:9 from the L-motor to the (red belted) Emerald Night wheels with a speed range of 3.5-20mph (20mph is its real maximum design speed), low ratio is 5:81 to the same wheels with a speed range of 0.5-3mph - lots of torque for slow running because some of my wagons can self-discharge and UK merry-go-round trains run at 0.5mph whilst unloading.  The loco will also have built-in decoupling, so no more "hand of God" whilst operating!  Quite a challenge to fit the 2 motors, IR receiver, battery box and gearbox into 27x6x5 volume though!  The loco is mostly Technic with facades of bricks and plates!

Mark

[Selander]

@mark bellis:
Thanks for sharing your comments.
I look very much forward to see your new moc for several reasons:
-the use of L motor.
-your gear box idea.
-and to see your decoupling system (I made a concept for that earlier)

I hope you'll present it soon ;-)

[Ferrik]

This new motor looks great. Thank you for showing everyone how to use it well.

[peterab]

Selander, on 01 September 2012 - 06:47 PM, said:

@mark bellis:
Thanks for sharing your comments.
I look very much forward to see your new moc for several reasons:
-the use of L motor.
-your gear box idea.
-and to see your decoupling system (I made a concept for that earlier)

I hope you'll present it soon ;-)

I'll second these comments, looking forward to some internal pictures to see how it all works. I'm sure I can find a use for a gearbox, perhaps for rack railway or the like. More uncoupler ideas are good too.

[legOZ]

These designs looks interesting but i have an another question on my mind, i want to do sth different.

I havent used that M,L,XL motors ever and also i didn't touch any Lego Technic parts so i don't know much about them but i want to do something.
(have 4511,7938,7939(only engine and PF),10194(i use with 9v motor),10219)

I want to create, design a tram with running functions.
But i dont want a create a wagon like train-wide.

I'm looking for a tram like 4 or 5 studs.
http://www.bricklink...tem.asp?P=85976
I want to use smaller tracks like this.

You guys are better than me on this subject, do you think thats possible to do ?
I can design wagons but i'm not sure to design this motorizations because i really dont have much part for it and dont have these type motors, i have only train motors.

[scruffulous]

legOZ, on 04 September 2012 - 07:33 PM, said:

...
I'm looking for a tram like 4 or 5 studs.
http://www.bricklink...tem.asp?P=85976
I want to use smaller tracks like this.
...

Space2310 has come up with a clever small motorised bogie. It should make it possible to build a motorized tram to run on the narrow gauge tracks (although concealing the battery will be tricky in 4-5 studs). Check out the rest of Space2310's photostream, too. He has even built narrow gauge points!

[legOZ]

scruffulous, on 06 September 2012 - 07:07 AM, said:

Space2310 has come up with a clever small motorised bogie. It should make it possible to build a motorized tram to run on the narrow gauge tracks (although concealing the battery will be tricky in 4-5 studs). Check out the rest of Space2310's photostream, too. He has even built narrow gauge points!

Thanks,
I think battery box and some more could cause problem for 4-5 stud designs.
But i'll try sth different in next weeks

[Mark Bellis]

Selander, on 01 September 2012 - 06:47 PM, said:

@mark bellis:
Thanks for sharing your comments.
I look very much forward to see your new moc for several reasons:
-the use of L motor.
-your gear box idea.
-and to see your decoupling system (I made a concept for that earlier)

I hope you'll present it soon ;-)

I have made some more progress this week.
The loco works in all 3 functions - low ratio works the best, high ratio and decoupling OK.  I found that the decoupling needed a quick burst of speed to work well.
I have added more bricks to get the shape more like the real loco, at least as a mock-up shape in the right base colour.  It is too long at the front but the IR receiver is well hidden and works better than anticipated given its concealment!
I cut down the gearbox size and can now make the proper roof profile.  Just need to see how I will know which function is selected!
The loco needs a rebuild for reliability, to prevent torque jumping in the main gear train.  When I've fixed this might be a good time for a photo as it is a concept limitation at the moment.  Not insurmountable I think.
Still a bit concerned about wheelbase vs. points.  3 wheelsets 6M apart is OK on straight and curved track and copes with flexitrack but I'll have to go slowly over the points.  Any assistance would defeat the object of having remote decoupling!

The gearbox is derived from this one in my PF Rail Crane.  The crane has 4 functions, the shunting loco just 3.  It means 2 motors can control more than 2 functions, hence only 1 IR Receiver unless you need lights as well!  I'd like to do lights in the shunting loco.  Finding space to fit the light bricks is the first challenge, then space for on of my direction circuits to set them automatically with the direction of travel.  I'll leave that till it works mechanically.

Mark

[Hrw-Amen]

So when are these L motors going to become available to buy then as I have not been able to locate them under the Power Functions category on the LEGO website yet?

[kieran]

The Guys over on the Technic forum have spoken to LEGO and its going to be March, there is always Bricklink/eBay in the mean time. That's assuming you don't want to buy the Technic set they come in?

[Mark Bellis]

Mark Bellis, on 11 September 2012 - 05:11 PM, said:

I have made some more progress this week.
...

Mark

Some more progress on the PF shunting loco:
A test went really well, especially in low ratio where there was bags of torque, enough to push a heavy loco with 2 9V train motors up a 1 in 30 hill.  Should have no problem with 5 heavy hopper wagons.
High ratio is OK but not enough torque to pull a heavy train.  Likely to be running light engine for this anyway.
At both speed settings the torque capability of the geartrain is sufficient - it exceeds the magnetic coupling strength.
At low ratio the top speed is 3.5mph, not fast enough to get right round the looped-eight track in a reasonable time with a train.  Another train takes about a minute to do this at 56mph scale speed.  The 08 is intended for the yard anyway, so this just confirms its role.
I've done the logos in brick and the battery boxes and fuel tanks on the solebar.  Some details to do later.
The IR receiver wire from the battery box is now hidden inside.
The cab end has its yellow zig-zags, using some cut 1x4 tiles, a technique I used like this on another loco.
The cab has windows in place.  The end windows have an interim position.  I might change it later as it's not precisely like the real loco.  It would need half-stud widths of stripey tiles, which would be difficult to fix even if I could cut them accurately.  That might be a cut too far.

Still need to mount some buffers and have a first go at the ladders before I post a picture, as it looks a bit bereft below the solebar!
Still no means of seeing what position the gearbox is in!

Mark

[Selander]

Can't wait to see some pictures....

[Mark Bellis]

Unfortunately the 5 days of posts lost in the server transfer included the write-up of my new shunting loco that is packed with Power Functions
There are pictures of the zig-zag end, hidden IR Receiver and underside (decoupling) in the link.
I'll just have to write it up further when I take the loco-dismantled photos soon.

Mark

[zephyr1934]

Mark Bellis, on 12 October 2012 - 05:59 PM, said:

Unfortunately the 5 days of posts lost in the server transfer included the write-up of my new shunting loco that is packed with Power Functions

More of a PF tour de force, but who's quibbling (grin).

[Phoxtane]

Well, I've been playing around with a wheelset much like this setup, but with all three axles driven, and the whole thing has to be stuffed into a Maersk Train wheelset-sized package. I don't actually think it's possible to do so, unfortunately.

[Selander]

Phoxtane, on 26 November 2012 - 08:14 AM, said:

Well, I've been playing around with a wheelset much like this setup, but with all three axles driven, and the whole thing has to be stuffed into a Maersk Train wheelset-sized package. I don't actually think it's possible to do so, unfortunately.

Normally the designs I suggested are intented for MOC locomotives, and cannot be integrated in TLG designs, such as Maersk train.

I am currently building a Swedish rail yard shunter, and found that a L-motor with a 20T gearing (see the most upper proposal above) gives a good balance between strenght and (low) speed for a shunter.