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Excalibur: Conclusion


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#1 Bob

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 06:40 PM

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The Fleet Admiral assembled everyone present.

"Lieutenant Zachary Jones / Flipz was a member of the League of Purists. However, he also spilled his guts about the entire game structure-"

"Game?" someone asked.

"Umm...anyway, I decided to restart the game."

"Game?" someone else asked.

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"So I bought this on eBay. It's a Time Warp device."

"Are you sure that's safe?" Chief Engineer Wilder asked.

"Who cares about safety?"

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"Hello? Yes, I'd like one Time Warp please, a few days ago time."

"Who are you talking to?"

"Why don't you ask to get rid of the scum?"

"Shush, I'm on the phone."

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Suddenly, everyone was blown backwards from the phone as the entire room was covered into white.

~~~


Stay tuned for Excalibur 2.0. If anyone from this game doesn't want to participate in the the next version, let me know immediately please.

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#2 Bob

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 07:10 PM

Oh, by the way, don't post here. This can be locked too.

Edit by Dragonator: Unlocked again at host's request.

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#3 Bob

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 02:05 PM

I'm assuming everyone (but Flipz) is going to partake in 2.0, so the confirmation and roles will likely go out tomorrow or sometime. I'm just going to make some more adjustments so that I'm absolutely sure there's no possible way that people can metagame based on past other people and their roles and whatnot.

By the way, you're free to comment on the game as long as you don't give away too much information on your character profile, don't quote my PMs, etc...

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#4 Fugazi

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 02:15 PM

Thanks for all your efforts Bob. :thumbup: I definitely look forward to this new start!
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#5 Hikaro Takayama

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 02:26 PM

Bob,

I was following Excalibur as closely as I could (Real Lifetm has been kicking my butt lately, which is why I haven't posted), and was enjoying your game, only to get on Eurobricks yesterday and find out what happened.  :cry_sad:

I'm really sorry one Whiny McSpoilsport player decided to ruin the whole game for everyone by ragequitting, however I'm glad you and Shadows decided to do a continuity reboot on the game. :sweet:

I can't wait for the new game to start, and perhaps, to pick up a few tricks from the masters (Scouty, Shadows and Dragonator).

I'm also somewhat envious of your rather large collection of classic Space theme minifigs...  I once had such a collection, but lost them when I went into my first dark age around 1994... Now the oldest Space minifig I have is a solitary Ice Planet 2002 guy. :sadnew:

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#6 Nightshroud99

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 02:51 PM

Other than the "incident," I've enjoyed your game so far Bob and I'm glad there will be an Excalibur 2 for everyone to enjoy. Keep up the good work, and keep those Minifigs smiling... which creeps me out even if it is a classic head-piece.  :laugh:
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#7 Speedy

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 02:51 PM

Without giving any sort of approval at Flipz behavior, I sympathize with his frustration.  The job of the host is keep things moving and clear.  After Bob had made clear that the photos were just for fun, it was fully in Flipz freedom as a player to ignore that and make whatever claims he did (I only read through the last two pages of the game day, so I apologize in advance if I'm misunderstanding what happened here).  For the host to come in and announce in that a scum member's alibi is impossible is bad hosting.  A host has to allow scum to mislead as they see fit, and if I were in Flipz's place, I would have been pissed off.  

As a host, I've had WTF moments, where I wanted to step in, but you need to let it go.  By clarifying, you are often clearing a player as an ignorant townie or in this case, smashing a player's attempt to mislead.

That said, I have been in Flipz's place to a lesser extent, and one job of players is to bite their tongue and let it out either in private or after the game is done.  Lord knows, I've played a game or two where I wanted to declare bullshit on the host, and I've hosted a game or two where a player declared bullshit on me.


I'm sorry your game got mucked up Bob, I can imagine the frustration.  I wish you the best of luck on a smooth round two  :sweet:

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#8 Scubacarrot

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 03:43 PM

So we aren't allowed to share Role PM's and Night actions results? :sceptic:

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#9 Bob

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 03:48 PM

No.

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#10 Scouty

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 04:47 PM

View Postdef, on 04 July 2012 - 02:51 PM, said:

Without giving any sort of approval at Flipz behavior, I sympathize with his frustration.  The job of the host is keep things moving and clear.  After Bob had made clear that the photos were just for fun, it was fully in Flipz freedom as a player to ignore that and make whatever claims he did (I only read through the last two pages of the game day, so I apologize in advance if I'm misunderstanding what happened here).  For the host to come in and announce in that a scum member's alibi is impossible is bad hosting.  A host has to allow scum to mislead as they see fit, and if I were in Flipz's place, I would have been pissed off.  
The thing about Flipz's roleclaim is that he never should have made it, because it never would have been believed. Bob had clearly stated the day before that the pictures were jokes and a number of players pointed out this fact in the thread before Bob posted his disclaimer. That may have been the final nail in the coffin, but there were already 50 nails already nailed in.
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#11 Capt.JohnPaul

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 04:52 PM

View PostScouty, on 04 July 2012 - 04:47 PM, said:

The thing about Flipz's roleclaim is that he never should have made it, because it never would have been believed. Bob had clearly stated the day before that the pictures were jokes and a number of players pointed out this fact in the thread before Bob posted his disclaimer. That may have been the final nail in the coffin, but there were already 50 nails already nailed in.
I think that goes back to Hinckley's style of hosting. If the town is stupid enough to believe a defense based on a picture, they deserve to be killed by scum. :grin: Even though pretty much no one believed him, Bob destroyed his alibi.
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#12 Scouty

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 04:59 PM

View PostCapt.JohnPaul, on 04 July 2012 - 04:52 PM, said:

I think that goes back to Hinckley's style of hosting. If the town is stupid enough to believe a defense based on a picture, they deserve to be killed by scum. :grin: Even though pretty much no one believed him, Bob destroyed his alibi.
But there was no alibi to be destroyed in the first place :sceptic: , at least from my view. It was all ridiculous from the start, so Bob's disclaimer came and had no effect on my choice.
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#13 fhomess

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 05:42 PM

View PostScouty, on 04 July 2012 - 04:47 PM, said:

The thing about Flipz's roleclaim is that he never should have made it, because it never would have been believed.
I have to disagree with this.  Scum can go ahead and claim whatever they want, and if you look at past games, you can see that people skip over details and base decisions on information that they clearly should have known wasn't accurate.  Yes, it was a bad roleclaim because it shouldn't have been believed, and of course it wasn't.  As soon as Flipz told me about it I knew he was full of it.  But that's not to say that scum haven't gotten away with that type of thing in the past.  Just because the host says something, it doesn't mean that scum can't try to convince us contrary to that.  Flipz didn't need to convince everyone, just enough people to avoid the lynch.

It obviously wasn't there, and the vote was decided by the time Bob's statement came out, so he should've just accepted that fact, but it is true that people change their minds sometimes even in the face of what others accurately perceive to be blatant lies.

#14 Scubacarrot

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 06:26 PM

Hmm, here is what I think: Flipz rant was totally uncalled for, out of place and rude beyond measure, and while I am very happy it won't be my call, I think punishment in one way or the other is deserved.

I also think that the host should try to say as little as possible, because everything is going to be interpretable as a hint in one way or the other, being it intended or not.

BUT, I don't think Bob's interference, if you want to call it that, was a bad thing, he was reminding people of the rules, and the rules state that there are no clues in pictures.

But the problem is this, more often than not there are clues in pictures in mafia games on this forum. Be it in the form of a clearly identifyable killer's method operandus, or in the form of a brown frog that means a conversion has taken place.

As long as there is no clear line, you are going to HAVE people look for clues in pictures, and people will adapt their playstyle with that.

Don't get me wrong, I'm far from denouncing Flipz's rant as allowable (can't think of the right word, help me out here). Especially in his case, where it was apparantly mostly megablocks (but we still don't know in what capacity, because we can't discuss the game :hmpf:) and he was going to die anyway, let's face it. But, it does make you think about this stuff.

I realized this when I first started playing Mafia on this forum, it was different from what I had done before, visuals clues like that were unheard of where I played before, so. Of course, we (EB Game community) are used to it now, and that's fine. But I think there should be a clear line, honestly. What I am pleading for is this: Either make it so there ARE NO CLUES whatsoever in the pictures, and state that VERY clearly in the rules. Or: Keep it like it is, but remove the rule as it stands now.

I realize that as a host adding miniscule clues that you can point out at the end of the game can be very fun, but you are going to have arguments like this, although hopefully with a normal reaction and less nerd rage.

EDIT: fixed some spelling errors.

Edited by Scubacarrot, 04 July 2012 - 06:30 PM.

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#15 Hinckley

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 06:40 PM

View PostScubacarrot, on 04 July 2012 - 06:26 PM, said:

I'm far from denouncing Flipz's rant as allowable (can't think of the right word, help me out here).
Allowable is an acceptable word, but perhaps you were looking for permissible.

View PostScubacarrot, on 04 July 2012 - 06:26 PM, said:

Hmm, here is what I think: Flipz ... EDIT: fixed some spelling errors.
I just stick to putting no clues in the pictures that have to do with anyone's role or affiliation. Well, after The Forest, I suppose as I did it in there maybe a bit too much. :blush: But, I've learned that there's no place for it in these visual games. It's funny, I used to do it all the time, all hosts did. People with night actions showed up late to the day thread, I left the killer's gloves on a character in the first Baritones. But the play here has evolved where that sort of thing is too obvious. Like blatantly showing a figure's body like Dragonator did to the killer in the first Mystery Castle. :laugh: Oops! Yes, we've all learned and evolved as a community.

Now, I just like to put the little indicators (no kill and a brown frog means conversion) that have become code but then put enough crap in to keep everyone guessing at what, if anything, it means. :laugh:

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#16 Flare

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 06:53 PM

Looking forward to the redux :sweet: I hope I'm still in the med-bay :tongue:

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#17 Dannylonglegs

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 06:58 PM

I like the easter eggs in Pictures. (The reference to Hinkley's Prison Riot with the vig kill was priceless!  :laugh: )I don't see why the visual cues and Easter eggs should go. Only idiots think the Host will intionally give away the identities if the PRs and Scum team! A host's intent is to make a fun, fair game and those who think that a Host will abandon that number one objective are kidding themselves. I understand completely why Bob repeated himself to clarify that it was a joke, and I disagree with Flipz's decision to release his fury mid-game. I understand his frustration, but his actions were uncalled for. However, I thought that much of the rage was merely a gambit to influence the players. The scum may have had a chance had Flipz not outed them, but with their names out in the public and 2 investigators, there was little chance that they'd really win, so with the game's balance somewhat comprimised it does make sense for the Host to reboot. Pictures make these games more fun, and jokes make them funny! Neither should be removed!

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#18 Brickdoctor

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 07:05 PM

I don't condone the ranting and the attacking the host, and I hope I'm not revealing too much with this post. Flipz said he was genuinely upset, but his intention was for the post to be a gambit disguised as a rant. Not all of the players he mentioned were Scum, and some of the players he didn't mention were Scum. He knew he was already as good as dead, and he was trying to make something happen and confuse the Town before he went down. He also purposely left holes in his argument and told the rest of us Scum where the holes were so that we could point them out.

And, also, I actually thought that Bob's having us Scum sit together was a reference to his "Hands up!" argument in Baritones 3.

#19 Scubacarrot

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 07:08 PM

View PostBrickdoctor, on 04 July 2012 - 07:05 PM, said:

I don't condone the ranting and the attacking the host, and I hope I'm not revealing too much with this post. Flipz said he was genuinely upset, but his intention was for the post to be a gambit disguised as a rant. Not all of the players he mentioned were Scum, and some of the players he didn't mention were Scum. He knew he was already as good as dead, and he was trying to make something happen and confuse the Town before he went down. He also purposely left holes in his argument and told the rest of us Scum where the holes were so that we could point them out.

And, also, I actually thought that Bob's having us Scum sit together was a reference to his "Hands up!" argument in Baritones 3.

So he completely attacked and insulted a game host in the process? :hmpf:

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#20 Brickdoctor

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 07:10 PM

View PostScubacarrot, on 04 July 2012 - 07:08 PM, said:

So he completely attacked and insulted a game host in the process? :hmpf:
That was the part a couple of the other Scum were trying to get him to take out.

#21 Hinckley

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 07:13 PM

He should've let Bob in on the plan then.

I don't know. This is a little late to come to his defense and sounds a bit more like justification after the fact. :sceptic:

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#22 Brickdoctor

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 07:45 PM

View PostHinckley, on 04 July 2012 - 07:13 PM, said:

I don't know. This is a little late to come to his defense and sounds a bit more like justification after the fact. :sceptic:
I'm not trying to defend him or justify his actions; I just wanted to clarify Flipz's intentions.

#23 Hinckley

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 08:11 PM

View PostBrickdoctor, on 04 July 2012 - 07:45 PM, said:

I'm not trying to defend him or justify his actions; I just wanted to clarify Flipz's intentions.
I'm just surprised we haven't heard the same from the rest of the Scum team...

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#24 Dannylonglegs

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 08:26 PM

View PostHinckley, on 04 July 2012 - 08:11 PM, said:

I'm just surprised we haven't heard the same from the rest of the Scum team...
Well, I didn't aprove of the gambit or the attitude, but I too thought it was mostly him trying to convince the Town that what he was saying was true (which would work to convince them the opposite.) I know his feelings were genuine because I was the one who pointed out that pic in the first place, but he really did over-react. An easter egg is different from a clue. And it wasn't even that. It was a coincidence, which makes me feel even more sorry for Bob for the whole rant.

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#25 Scubacarrot

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 08:49 PM

View PostDannylonglegs, on 04 July 2012 - 08:26 PM, said:

Well, I didn't aprove of the gambit or the attitude, but I too thought it was mostly him trying to convince the Town that what he was saying was true (which would work to convince them the opposite.) I know his feelings were genuine because I was the one who pointed out that pic in the first place, but he really did over-react. An easter egg is different from a clue. And it wasn't even that. It was a coincidence, which makes me feel even more sorry for Bob for the whole rant.

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Call me harsh, but he got to learn to deal if that is the case. Of course sometimes there are going to happen things in a game that you don't agree with. The best and most mature thing you can do at that point is with until the game is over, and give feedback to the host.

Last thing I want to say about this subject, I felt really good that I had captured my first scum, mostly on my own as well. This was the first Mafia game on EB I felt I was playing as I should be playing, I had a lot of fun for when it lasted and I had a very positive attitude at the game in general. Other games were amazing, had super beautiful pictures and funny stories, but this game was the first really where I had tons of fun playing, if you know what I mean. Damned shame.

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