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Heroica RPG - Expert Job Class Discussion


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#51 Sandy

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 07:31 PM

View PostLEGOman273, on 08 June 2012 - 02:19 PM, said:

Bounty Hunter
*Pic Coming*
Additional Health: +12
Additional Ether: +3 (+1 for each Level in non-Ether users)
Weapons: Anything suitable for a Rogue, Ranger, or Mage - as long as it has been imbued with the Darkness element.
Job Traits:
Dark Spirit: Bounty Hunters may cast spells, but only of the Darkness element; in addition, they may not wield any weapon that is not Darkness-imbued (dual-imbued weapons are allowed, so long as one of the elements is Darkness). Bounty Hunters are immune to Darkness damage but take double damage from Light. Bounty Hunters cannot use Holy Bombs.
Grift/Threaten (see Black Knight)
Spell Casting (See Mage)
Track Down (see Ranger)
Battle Style: Badass - Just keep reading and you will see. :laugh:
1. SHIELD: One of 3 Shield effects is chosen at random, via a dice roll.
2. CRITICAL HIT/SPELL: The Bounty Hunter Attacks its target with the strength of its WP x2 (x4 for spells) / cost 1 Ether for spells.
3. HIT/SPELL: The Bounty Hunter attacks the target with the strength of its WP + its Level  (Level x2 for spells) / cost 1 Ether for spells.
4. DECOY - The Bounty Hunter hides behind an ally next to them in the party Battle Order. Next Round, any damage or effect (positive or negative) that is dealt to the Bounty Hunter affects the ally instead.
5. DAMAGE/DEFLECTION: The Bounty Hunter has a 50/50 chance of A. Deflecting its target's Damage to another (randomly-chosen) participant in the Battle (can be friend or foe), or B. Being struck by its opponent's damage.
6. SPECIAL DAMAGE: The Bounty Hunter is struck by its opponent's special skill.

SHIELD ACTIONS:
1-2. Bait and Switch - The Bounty Hunter switches a (randomly-generated 3-6) Shield effect with a (randomly-chosen) Party member who has also rolled a Shield.
3-4. Lethal Mug - The Bounty Hunter instantly kills its target, and steals an amount of Gold equal to the target's Level. In the case of a target's being immune to instant kill, the Bounty Hunter only steals the Gold.
5-6. Dark Blast - The Bounty Hunter unleashes a blast of Darkness-Elemental energy equal to its WP x2 on all enemies, and steals Gold from each target equal to each target's respective Level / costs no Ether.

Eligibility for Bounty Hunter:
Anyone who is over Level 30, and who has completed at least three assassination-and-or-infiltration Quests.

Shortly put, there's some problems I have with your class. I find it odd and a bit childish that a common bounty hunter would be so overwhelmed by inner darkness that he couldn't even touch Holy Bombs (which are a common item). With such a close connection to the element of darkness, this class should be called Demonic Hunter or something like that.

Also, there's one too many job traits ("spellcasting" is pointless for this class), and the Shield-skill is needlessly complicated without really bringing anything new to the table. Basically I feel this class is a combination of Assassin and Black Knight, as opposed to something unique that the expert job classes are.

None of this matters, though, because you haven't even hosted a single quest yet. Please have patience, and don't rush things. If you get a chance to host quests, you'll understand better what works in the context of this game and what doesn't. :wink:

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#52 Scubacarrot

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 07:39 PM

View PostSandy, on 08 June 2012 - 06:49 PM, said:

Well, I do think they're too similar, although you have some great ideas for songs that could be later incorporated with the Minstrel's songs.

Do you have any suggestions to change it then? I really don't see the amazing similarities people seem to be seeing. Maybe get rid of the supportive songs and replace it with something else? Or do you not want another music based class at all.

I think it is like comparing a marching band-player with a rock-guitarist, but what can you do...

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#53 Zepher

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 07:39 PM

I have to agree with Sandy.  Looking at some of these classes make hosting seem like a nightmare.  The notable exception are the classes created by, well, hosts, because they know how easily you can lose track of everything (unless you're a genius like BD, who I swear has somehow never messed up).  The classes that are fun and simple are posted by quest masters, because they know how much they'd be able to keep track of, and what effects would really spice up a battle.

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#54 LEGOman273

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 07:45 PM

View PostSandy, on 08 June 2012 - 07:31 PM, said:

Shortly put, there's some problems I have with your class. I find it odd and a bit childish that a common bounty hunter would be so overwhelmed by inner darkness that he couldn't even touch Holy Bombs (which are a common item). With such a close connection to the element of darkness, this class should be called Demonic Hunter or something like that.

Also, there's one too many job traits ("spellcasting" is pointless for this class), and the Shield-skill is needlessly complicated without really bringing anything new to the table. Basically I feel this class is a combination of Assassin and Black Knight, as opposed to something unique that the expert job classes are.

None of this matters, though, because you haven't even hosted a single quest yet. Please have patience, and don't rush things. If you get a chance to host quests, you'll understand better what works in the context of this game and what doesn't. :wink:
1. The name was preliminary. Thanks for the suggestion. I agree that it suits my idea of the Class better. The reason that I put in that they could not use Holy Bombs was to make the Class less powerful (Dark Blast is a bit like a Darkness version of a Holy Bomb, so the class would not lose much).

2. Why is Spellcasting pointless for the Class? That is what gives it the Darkness-Theme.
I see that; I will work to make it a bit more unique.

3. I'm working on it.

Thank you for the feedback; I appreaciate it. :thumbup:

#55 CallMePie

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 07:59 PM

The similarity, I think, is that it's music-based. The Minstrel, I thought, was possibly one of the most unique expert classes, and you've basically suggested a Battle Minstrel with different songs. It's not a bad idea, in my mind, it's just that Minstrel is really a specialty sort of class, and it would be sort of irrelevant if there was a class that could do everything a Minstrel could and use weapons.

Just my thoughts.  :shrug_confused:
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#56 Scubacarrot

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 08:08 PM

View PostCallMePie, on 08 June 2012 - 07:59 PM, said:

The similarity, I think, is that it's music-based. The Minstrel, I thought, was possibly one of the most unique expert classes, and you've basically suggested a Battle Minstrel with different songs. It's not a bad idea, in my mind, it's just that Minstrel is really a specialty sort of class, and it would be sort of irrelevant if there was a class that could do everything a Minstrel could and use weapons.

Just my thoughts. :shrug_confused:

But it really can't, it does not have nearly the useful songs the minstrel has, it can't activate songs at will, it can't stun with every positive roll, it does not have ether. The Bard's legends are more like a fun buff for the party, while the Minstrel is based around them, the bard clearly is not. They are inherently different, believe me, I have thought about it enough to know. If the fact "it's music based" is an issue with Sandy, I'll accept that, but I'll be forever cynical on every class that has any similarity in anything ever.

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#57 Sandy

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 08:34 PM

View PostLEGOman273, on 08 June 2012 - 07:45 PM, said:

Why is Spellcasting pointless for the Class? That is what gives it the Darkness-Theme.

"Spellcasting" means that the class can cast spells outside of battle, and since your bounty hunter can only cast darkness-elemental spells, I can't really think of a situation where the trait would be useful. You could incorporate casting a darkness-spell into the "dark spirit" trait, anyway, if you want to keep it.

But as I said, at the current stage your class is not unique enough to pass as an expert job class.

View PostScubacarrot, on 08 June 2012 - 08:08 PM, said:

But it really can't, it does not have nearly the useful songs the minstrel has, it can't activate songs at will, it can't stun with every positive roll, it does not have ether. The Bard's legends are more like a fun buff for the party, while the Minstrel is based around them, the bard clearly is not. They are inherently different, believe me, I have thought about it enough to know. If the fact "it's music based" is an issue with Sandy, I'll accept that, but I'll be forever cynical on every class that has any similarity in anything ever.

They work differently, I get that, but they are just too similar in spirit. It's like you reinvented my class.

Maybe if the "bard" was called "storyteller" or "rhymester" instead, and could not use instruments as weapons, the differences would be more pronounced.

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#58 Scubacarrot

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 08:41 PM

View PostSandy, on 08 June 2012 - 08:34 PM, said:

They work differently, I get that, but they are just too similar in spirit. It's like you reinvented my class.

Maybe if the "bard" was called "storyteller" or "rhymester" instead, and could not use instruments as weapons, the differences would be more pronounced.

OK, Ill drop the class. I figured it would be actually good to include instruments, since if they are added now they are good for one class, which is not ideal, I would imagine. I don't like you to think I "reinvented" your class, because I did not, it would be insulting if I had done that. I designed it with a similair base theme: music, but that's the only similarity. The "songs" or "legends" are the only way I imagined it could work...

Renaming it to storyteller or something along those lines without instruments, is pointless, it would break all the references, and be a completely unappealing, pointless class, no offence.

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#59 Sandy

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 08:48 PM

View PostScubacarrot, on 08 June 2012 - 08:41 PM, said:

OK, Ill drop the class.

I hope that your "legends" are still usable as future Minstrel's songs, because there were several great ideas among them. You will of course get the credit for making them. :classic:

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#60 Scubacarrot

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 08:54 PM

View PostSandy, on 08 June 2012 - 08:48 PM, said:

I hope that your "legends" are still usable as future Minstrel's songs, because there were several great ideas among them. You will of course get the credit for making them. :classic:

Of course, no problem!

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#61 UsernameMDM

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 08:55 PM

Sandy - I posted this just before you posted the Expert classes and wanted to know what you thought and if it was too similar to the Cannoneer:

Mining Engineer
Additional Health: +10
Additional Ether: ~
Weapons: Axes, Maces, Clubs, Hammers, and Hand Cannons
Job Traits:
Natural Respite (See Barbarian)
Go BOOM!: Mining Engineers are adept at explosives causing
elemental bombs to do 5 times their normal damage
Hard as a Rock: Mining Engineers are as tough as the rock they conquer giving them immunity to Earth based attacks, Stunned, Petrified and Poisoned effects
Battle Style: Mountain Mover - Mining Engineers are acclimated with the harsh environment of the mines and utilize their mining skills in battle.

1. SHIELD: EUREKA!: The Mining Engineer attacks enemy targets with strength equal to weapon power only and receive gold equal to their level for each enemy hit.  Number of enemies attacked it determined by a separate dice roll (6 enemies, WP 25 = 25 damage each enemy, level 30 = 180 gold).
2. CRITICAL HIT: The Mining Engineer strikes for damage equal to their weapon power x2 added to their level (WP 25 x 2 + level 30 = 80 damage).
3. HIT: The Mining Engineer attacks the target with strength equal to their weapon power added to their level. (WP 25 + level 30 = 55 damage).
4. DYNAMITE! - The Mining Engineer lobs sticks of dynamite at all enemy targets causing damage equal to weapon power added to their level and adds the Stunned effect to all enemies (WP 25 + level 30 = 55 damage).
5. DAMAGE: The Mining Engineer is struck by their opponent's damage.
6. SPECIAL DAMAGE: The Mining Engineer is struck by their opponent's special skill.

Edited by UsernameMDM, 08 June 2012 - 08:58 PM.


#62 Sandy

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 09:07 PM

View PostUsernameMDM, on 08 June 2012 - 08:55 PM, said:

Mining Engineer

I saw it, I just forgot to reply to you. Let's see...

Since there's apparently a demand for an "engineer" job class, your class should have a different name for starters. How about "Power Miner", as a reference to the LEGO theme?

I like the unique job traits, but I don't see how "natural respite" really fits the class. If you want to include one pre-existing trait, though, that's probably your best choice.

The battle skills are nothing unique, though, and especially "dynamite!" feels out of place since it's much more powerful than the normal hits, hitting all enemies and stunning them.

All in all, the class is not similar to my Cannoneer at all, but besides the job traits it's nothing special, really. The class lacks the "twist" that would separate it from the basic and advanced classes.

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#63 JimBee

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 11:24 PM

Thanks for the blank template, Sandy. Now I'm not a photoshop wizard, but here's what I came up with for my Werewolf class.

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#64 Sandy

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 09:37 AM

View PostJimButcher, on 08 June 2012 - 11:24 PM, said:

Thanks for the blank template, Sandy. Now I'm not a photoshop wizard, but here's what I came up with for my Werewolf class.

The template looks good enough. :wink:

I have to say that the class is still underpowered. You see, the Cursed-effect is detrimental on the long run for heroes, but against enemies with high health it's almost as useless as poisoning them. And you'll get plenty of high level enemies against you when you're above Level 30 yourself.

I'd say your class needs a special twist to it as well, something other besides the inability to use weapons. And for storyline purposes, I'm hesitant to even accept a Werewolf-class into the game...

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#65 Palathadric

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 11:44 AM

But being a werewolf is not exactly a job class as I see it. It seems odd that someone can just choose to become a werewolf. Shouldn't be more of a race than a profession?
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#66 UsernameMDM

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 03:03 PM

View PostSandy, on 08 June 2012 - 09:07 PM, said:

I saw it, I just forgot to reply to you. Let's see...

Since there's apparently a demand for an "engineer" job class, your class should have a different name for starters. How about "Power Miner", as a reference to the LEGO theme?

Sure.  I wasn't really in love with the name to begin with.

Quote

I like the unique job traits, but I don't see how "natural respite" really fits the class. If you want to include one pre-existing trait, though, that's probably your best choice.

I'd like to include a pre-existing trait to follow the pattern that you laid out.  I picked that one because I thought it went along well with the 'toughness' of the class and complimented Hard as a Rock and Mountain Mover.

Quote

The battle skills are nothing unique, though, and especially "dynamite!" feels out of place since it's much more powerful than the normal hits, hitting all enemies and stunning them.

Maybe a 50/50 chance on stun or nerf the damage dealt a bit?  I just like the idea of a PC slinging a bunch of dynamite at the enemies.

Quote

All in all, the class is not similar to my Cannoneer at all, but besides the job traits it's nothing special, really. The class lacks the "twist" that would separate it from the basic and advanced classes.

Like I said, it was really me first stab, so I expected I would need to work on it some more.  Just wanted to make sure it would have a chance alongside the Cannoneer.

Thanks.

Edited by UsernameMDM, 09 June 2012 - 05:33 PM.


#67 JimBee

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 05:03 PM

View PostSandy, on 09 June 2012 - 09:37 AM, said:

I'm hesitant to even accept a Werewolf-class into the game...

View PostPalathadric, on 09 June 2012 - 11:44 AM, said:

But being a werewolf is not exactly a job class as I see it. It seems odd that someone can just choose to become a werewolf. Shouldn't be more of a race than a profession?
:shrug: Well if that's the case then that's fine. Would that be the reason why you wouldn't accept such a class, Sandy?

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#68 LEGOman273

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 05:29 PM

View PostSandy, on 08 June 2012 - 08:34 PM, said:

"Spellcasting" means that the class can cast spells outside of battle, and since your bounty hunter can only cast darkness-elemental spells, I can't really think of a situation where the trait would be useful. You could incorporate casting a darkness-spell into the "dark spirit" trait, anyway, if you want to keep it.

But as I said, at the current stage your class is not unique enough to pass as an expert job class.
Now I understand. That's what I will do.

#69 UsernameMDM

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 07:22 PM

WBD - Swashbuckler:
I think roll 4 Counter should be moved to roll 5, and a new roll 4 should be something like:
Taunt - target enemy deals and recieves double damage next round.

Just thinking about the snobbery & possible trash talking a swashbuckler would engage in.

#70 LEGOman273

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 02:02 AM

Pic:
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Which name sounds better:
Demonic Hunter, or Dark Hunter?

Still working on stats.

#71 Tachyon

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 02:03 AM

Haemomancer
Additional Health: +10
Additional Ether: ~
Weapons: Wands, Staves, Daggers
Job Traits: Flee - See Rogue
            Self Protection- When the heptomancer gets below 10 health, the Heptomancer get's a SP 10 shield which drains 1HP from the Heptomancer each turn       until the Heptomancer is knocked out. If the Heptomancer is above 10HP the shield dissipates.
                
Battle Style: Blood shaping- The Heptomancer uses blood to deal attacks

1. SHIELD: Hemoplague: The Heptomancer infects all enemies  with a virulent plague. Affected enemies are fragile and weakened for the next 3 turns. After 3 turns the Heptomancer gains HP equal to the amount of damage the enemies have taken divided by 2
2. Transfusion: The Heptomancer drains health from a target equal to their weapon power added to their level (WP 25 + level 30 = 55 damage+55 HP gained).
3. Infused Hit: The Heptomancer attacks the target with strength equal to their WPx2 added to their level. (WP 25 x2 + level 30 = 85 damage)but the heptomancer gains the poisoned effect. .
4. Sanguine pool! - The Heptomancer transforms into a pool of blood making all enemy attacks deal no damage and dealing Weapon Power (WP 25=25 damage)but gives the Heptomancer, the badly poisoned effect.
5. DAMAGE: The Mining Engineer is struck by their opponent's damage.
6. SPECIAL DAMAGE: The Heptomancer is struck by their opponent's special skill.

Let me know what you think about this class and how it could be changed to better suit the game.

Edited by zakura, 10 June 2012 - 06:01 AM.


#72 Jebediahs

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 05:52 AM

For the Power Miner class you can incorporate pickaxes and shovels into its damage.
The Power Miner could:

* Have a trait that uses pickaxes to heavily damage rock monsters like in Quest 26 or
* Mimic the Cannoneer class but use pickaxes and shovels to calculate damage somehow


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#73 Sandy

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 09:36 AM

View PostJebediahs, on 10 June 2012 - 05:52 AM, said:

For the Power Miner class you can incorporate pickaxes and shovels into its damage.
The Power Miner could:

* Have a trait that uses pickaxes to heavily damage rock monsters like in Quest 26 or
* Mimic the Cannoneer class but use pickaxes and shovels to calculate damage somehow


What an excellent idea! The tools are heavily underused in their current state, in my opinion.

View PostLEGOman273, on 10 June 2012 - 02:02 AM, said:

Pic:

My pictures actually depict the female and male versions of each class, if you haven't noticed...

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#74 swils

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 10:03 AM

View PostSandy, on 10 June 2012 - 09:36 AM, said:

What an excellent idea! The tools are heavily underused in their current state, in my opinion.

There just aren't enough caches of gold tucked behind crumbling brick walls (or at least, not enough hints are given that such things exist).  But that's more appropriate for the QM thread... heh.



Quote

My pictures actually depict the female and male versions of each class, if you haven't noticed...

That's obviously a female orc demon huntress, just look at that face!  The females tend to have a much softer complexion than the males of their tribes.  :tongue:

#75 Sandy

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 10:06 AM

View Postswils, on 10 June 2012 - 10:03 AM, said:

There just aren't enough caches of gold tucked behind crumbling brick walls (or at least, not enough hints are given that such things exist).  But that's more appropriate for the QM thread... heh.

I know. The players should try to use their tools more often, and the QMs should offer more chances to use them, too. Otherwise they're just deadweight in the players' inventories.

And this is not to say I'm not faulty of the same thing, both as a player and a QM.

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