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Heroica RPG - Expert Job Class Discussion


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#326 Sandy

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 11:03 PM

Alright, since you asked for it, JimBee... It's about time I delve into these suggestions, anyway.

View PostJimButcher, on 02 September 2012 - 12:34 AM, said:

Winged Warrior
Additional Health: +9
Weapons: Winged Warriors generally used ranged weapons such as bows, crossbows and throwing weapons, but can also use daggers, longswords, and spears.
Job Traits: Keen Eye: Allows the Winged Warrior to see far without a telescope. Natural Respite: see Barbarian. Flying - Winged Warrior can flap their wings to get to higher point, fly over obstacles, etc.
Battle Style: Aerial - Winged Warriors fight while in flight, and prefer swift, aerial assaults. They can soar higher to gain the upper hand in battle.

1. SHIELD: Take to the Skies - The Winged Warrior flaps its mighty wings, causing gusts of wind that stun all enemies for the current round, while making themselves invulnerable for the next round. In addition, wind-elemental damage equal to the Winged Warrior's level is dealt to all enemies.

2. CRITICAL HIT/FLY EVEN HIGHER - Deals damage equal to 2x WP added to level. Optionally, any attempt to fly will result in the next successful attack dealing 4x damage.

3. HIT/FLY HIGHER - Deals damage equal to WP added to level. Optionally, any attempt to fly will result in the next successful attack dealing 3x damage.

4. LINED-UP SHOT/FLY: The Winged Warrior takes a turn to line up an accurate shot on their opponent. The following turn they will deal 2x WP + Level, plus inflict the Fragile effect on the opponent. If their target is defeated before then, they will instead fire on the next available enemy. Optionally, any attempt to fly will result in the next successful attack dealing 2x damage.

5. DAMAGE/NO FLYING - Receives damage equal to the level of the enemy. Any attempt at flying fails.

6. SPECIAL DODGE/NO FLYING - Has a 50/50 chance of dodging the enemy's special so that it hits the next ally in the battle order, unless the special affects everyone. Any attempt at flying fails.

I'm most curious about how you will explain the heroes suddenly sprouting wings. I take this job class is related to the Rito Clan, right?

The choices for weapons and the job traits seem fine to me. The Shield-skill is good too, although it could use some rewording to make the effects clearer.

The flying skill seems excellent, but in my opinion rolling 1, 5 or 6 on the next turn should negate it. The point of the skill is that the W.W. flies up and plummets down upon the enemy, right? So if on the next turn the enemy gets to attack the W.W., by all logic the warrior isn't flying anymore. Do you understand what I mean with this?

I'm also confused about the lined-up shot. It seems out of place, especially since the class doesn't even specialize in ranged weapons. It's also very powerful for a fourth tier skill. Maybe "AIM" would suffice instead?

That's about it. If you can answer these questions, we can start negotiating about getting the class to an approvable stage. :wink:

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#327 Palathadric

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 11:38 PM

View PostBrickdoctor, on 17 November 2012 - 08:57 PM, said:

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Instead of damage though, he should mix up what he feeds the targeted person, so he poisons an ally or heals an enemy! :laugh:
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#328 JimBee

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 11:54 PM

View PostSandy, on 17 November 2012 - 11:03 PM, said:

Alright, since you asked for it, JimBee... It's about time I delve into these suggestions, anyway.
Uh oh... :grin: But seriously thanks for taking the time to do this. :sweet:

Quote

I'm most curious about how you will explain the heroes suddenly sprouting wings. I take this job class is related to the Rito Clan, right?
Yep, the class will tie into a Rito quest that I'm planning. It will most likely be up to the player if they want their character to grow wings or have some alternative, but I do have those planned. Also, can't everything be explained with magic? :tongue: I don't want to give away too much, but the Rito will be able to "give" wings to heroes, either by ritual or something else for mechanical wings.

Quote

The choices for weapons and the job traits seem fine to me. The Shield-skill is good too, although it could use some rewording to make the effects clearer.

1. SHIELD: Take to the Skies - The Winged Warrior flaps its mighty wings. This causes wind-elemental damage equal to the Winged Warrior's level to all enemies, stuns all enemies, and protects the Winged Warrior from taking damage the next round.

Quote

The flying skill seems excellent, but in my opinion rolling 1, 5 or 6 on the next turn should negate it. The point of the skill is that the W.W. flies up and plummets down upon the enemy, right? So if on the next turn the enemy gets to attack the W.W., by all logic the warrior isn't flying anymore. Do you understand what I mean with this?
Yeah, Take to the Skies counts as an attack and would use up any flying multipliers after it is rolled. Rolls of 5 and 6 while trying to Fly would negate them as well, yes. I didn't articulate this well in the description, but WWs can attempt to stack flying multipliers. For example, one round they roll "Fly" (4), and the next they could try to fly again. If they rolled another number with fly (2, 3, or 4), that multiplier would stack with the previous one. Rolls of 1, 5 or 6 would reset the multipliers to 1x damage.

It could be powerful, but the WW runs the risk of losing all of the multipliers if they try to stack, plus they're not targeting enemies so they don't prevent free hits. Does this make sense?

Quote

I'm also confused about the lined-up shot. It seems out of place, especially since the class doesn't even specialize in ranged weapons. It's also very powerful for a fourth tier skill. Maybe "AIM" would suffice instead?
The thing is that they miss a turn when "charging" for Lined-Up Shot. It would be a lot simpler to have Aim, though, because fitting LUS in with the flying multipliers might be too complicated. I will think about changing it. :thumbup:

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#329 Zepher

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 06:04 AM

Very close to the final version (if not the final version).  The third job trait for either side has yet to be approved.  Can anyone think of a better name for the class, or anything that you REALLY REALLY think is missing?  Feedback would be appreciated (especially since some of you could potentially be playing as it in the near-future).

Chaos Defenders

* Additional Health: +12

* Job Trait(s): See Below

* Battle Style: Chaos Defenders are deeply troubled by the force they are sworn to fight, and so switch between Chaos and Order.

*Weapons:  Axes, Daggers, Greatswords, Hammers, Longswords, Staves, Shields

ORDERED:  Job Trait – Order:  Deals Light Elemental Damage, Diplomacy:  Defenders often times must work with others to stop chaos.   Calculating Mind: The Chaos Defender may use 1 item in addition to other actions in the first round of each battle.

1. SHIELD: Internal Conflict – The Chaos Defender goes through inner conflict, changing their battle style.  They become Chaotic.  While making the change, the Chaos Defender halves their opponent’s current health.

2. RALLY:  The Defender attacks the enemy with a power equal to their weapon power added to their level.  The party rallies and are safe from free hits the remainder of the round.

3. HIT: The Chaos Defender attacks the target with strength equal to their weapon power added to their level.

4. OPTIMISM:  The Chaos Defender is safe from free hits the remainder of the round.

5. DEFENDED DAMAGE:  The Defender takes damage equal to the enemy’s level minus the Defender's SP.

6. SPECIAL DAMAGE: The Chaos Defender is struck by its opponent’s special skill and takes damage minus the Defender's SP.

CHAOTIC:  Job Trait – Order:  Deals Darkness Elemental Damage.  Intimidation:  Chaos Defenders can scare others into helping them to prevent chaos.  Wild Mind: The Chaos Defender may deal a free unblock-able hit (equal to WP+Lvl) to one enemy in the first round of each battle in addition to other actions.

1. SHIELD: Internal Conflict – The Chaos Defender goes through inner conflict, changing their battle style.  They become Orderly.  While making the change, the Chaos Defender brings the opponent to half of their current health.

2. CHAOTIC STRIKE: The Chaos Defender feints and slips past the target to hit a random enemy with strength equal to (WPx3+Level).  The random enemy is not considered targeted by the Chaos Defender.

3. CRITICAL HIT: The Chaos Defender attacks the target with strength equal to (WPx2+Level).

4. PESSIMISM: The target is jinxed for the following round.

5. DEFENDED DAMAGE:  The Defender takes damage equal to the enemy’s level minus the Defender’s SP.

6. SPECIAL DAMAGE: The Chaos Defender is struck by its opponent’s special skill and takes damage minus the Defender's SP.

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#330 CallMePie

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 06:09 AM

Maybe change the name to Chaos Regulator, or something like that? If they want to stop Chaos, why are they defending it? :tongue:

Edited by CallMePie, 30 November 2012 - 06:13 AM.

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#331 Zepher

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 06:10 AM

Well, they thrive in it a bit too.  But yes, Regulator sounds better.  :grin: That has been Sandy's major complaint every time I've shown him the class.  The name is not up to Sandy standards.

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#332 CallMePie

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 06:14 AM

I think Jinxed is a three round effect by default, you might want to make it so in Pessimism. Rally and Optimism are cool, but the thing is, most parties plan to prevent as many free hits as possible. Maybe you should think about changing it to 'the following round', so they could get more use out of it?

This is surprisingly very fitting for Atramor, even moreso than the original one, especially with what I'm planning.

Edited by CallMePie, 30 November 2012 - 06:15 AM.

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#333 Flipz

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 06:26 AM

Chaos Guardian.  For reasons related to an RPG I (sporadically, unfortunately) play on another forum (one, actually, that I think you'd REALLY enjoy, Zeph), this really ought to be the name.  That or Chaos Hunter.

I also think the flavor text ought to allude a little more towards the Balance and the Gray (a la quest 38) than "a character opposed to Chaos", but that's a minor thing. :wink:

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#334 Zepher

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 06:26 AM

It used to be for the next round, but Sandy preferred to put it into effect that same round.  Maybe if there's enough clamor, we can change it.  I think it works better for the next round as well, strategizing.  It's like a majorly unbuffed guardian angel.

The jinxed effect would be far to strong to last for three rounds if given by the miss roll.

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#335 Flipz

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 06:29 AM

View PostZepher, on 30 November 2012 - 06:26 AM, said:

It used to be for the next round, but Sandy preferred to put it into effect that same round.  Maybe if there's enough clamor, we can change it.  I think it works better for the next round as well, strategizing.  It's like a majorly unbuffed guardian angel.

The jinxed effect would be far to strong to last for three rounds if given by the miss roll.

Yeah, I like the idea a lot better as protecting for the next Round.  (Also, I gave a couple other notes in the post above yours. :wink: )

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#336 Palathadric

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 08:36 AM

I have a hard time understanding how "Defended Damage" differes from regular "Damage"?

Isn't normal "Damage" the enemies level minus the defender's SP as well? :look:


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#337 CallMePie

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 08:36 AM

View PostPalathadric, on 30 November 2012 - 08:36 AM, said:

I have a hard time understanding how "Defended Damage" differes from regular "Damage"?

Isn't normal "Damage" the enemies level minus the defender's SP as well? :look:


Yeah. For classes with shields, it's just called Defended Damage.

And Zepher....do you really take both Special and normal Damage on a roll of 6, or is that an error? :look:

Edited by CallMePie, 30 November 2012 - 08:51 AM.

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#338 Zepher

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 08:55 AM

Sorry, that's just my weird wording for "takes any effects/damage associated with special damage".  :wacko:

So, no, only whatever special damage outlines.

Edited by Zepher, 30 November 2012 - 08:55 AM.

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#339 Palathadric

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 09:37 AM

View PostCallMePie, on 30 November 2012 - 08:36 AM, said:

Yeah. For classes with shields, it's just called Defended Damage.
It is? :blush: I never noticed this.
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#340 Waterbrick Down

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 10:04 PM

View PostZepher, on 30 November 2012 - 06:04 AM, said:

Very close to the final version (if not the final version).  The third job trait for either side has yet to be approved.  Can anyone think of a better name for the class, or anything that you REALLY REALLY think is missing?  Feedback would be appreciated (especially since some of you could potentially be playing as it in the near-future).

Chaos Defenders

I really like it Zepher, here are a few observations:

The Chaotic Job traits have "order" listed as doing darkness elemental damage, is this correct?

Pessimism and Chaotic strike are really good, however Rally and Optomism don't provide for very much strategy, though I'm not sure if they were meant to. I would feel better if their effects lasted until the end of the next round, giving the Party time to take advantage of them.

This class is definately an early battle role, as their signature Shield skill ensures they won't be able to KO anyone and if you're dealing with enemies that are holding on with just a little health, a regular strike would actually be more effective.

Now just to figure out a better name. :tongue:

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#341 Flipz

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 10:12 PM

View PostWaterbrick Down, on 30 November 2012 - 10:04 PM, said:

Now just to figure out a better name. :tongue:

Chaos Hunter/Chaos Guardian :wink:

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#342 JimBee

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 12:28 AM

Looks like a cool class. I'm just wondering which one you start as at the beginning of a quest/once you become a Chaos Defender?

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#343 Sandy

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 11:32 AM

Some people have expressed their disinterest in the expert job classes for roleplaying purposes, and someone (I think Flipz) suggested adding expert classes that specialize and improve upon the six basic job classes. Anyone could advance to the class corresponding to their original basic class upon hitting Level 30, making them work somewhat differently from other experts.

I've been toying around with the idea, and come up with potential names for them:

Barbarian Gladiator
High Cleric
Templar Knight
Archmage
Scout Ranger
Rogue Ninja

Now the question remains, what will their abilities be? How will they be more powerful than the basic job classes, but not as powerful as the master classes? Here's my thoughts:

- First of, they get a bonus to their health/ether.
- Their equipment selection would stay the same as the corresponding basic class.
- Including the job trait of the basic class, they would get two extra job classes (which would not be taken from the other basics).
- Their SHIELD-skills would be more powerful.
- Their fourth skills would be mostly different.
- Otherwise they could do what their basic classes do - BG would deal great damage, HC would heal, TK would tank, AM would cast spells, SR would focus on ranged combat and RN would steal.

How would these sound to you guys? Any suggestion for their job traits or battle abilities?

Just remember that these are only on the planning stage, their implementation to the game is by no means certain yet.

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#344 Pyrovisionary

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 12:04 PM

I would say maybe replacing RN with thief, TK with Crusader and SR with Outrider. And maybe BG with Hghlander

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#345 Sandy

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 12:17 PM

View PostSkyrimguy, on 06 January 2013 - 12:04 PM, said:

I would say maybe replacing RN with thief, TK with Crusader and SR with Outrider. And maybe BG with Hghlander

I created these names so that the connection to the basic classes would be crystal clear (as they are unlike the other Expert Classes). The names are not as important as to what the classes should be able to do, though.

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#346 Pyrovisionary

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 01:04 PM

Ok. Well I have an Idea of what the TK could have for a 1 roll.

Shield bash: The Templar knight bashes an enemy with his shield, causing damage equal to 2 times his Sp added to his level, also causing the stunned effect to the target. ( e.g sp7 x 2 + Level 30 = 44 damage + the stunned effect to the target.)
Thoughts? Maybe a bit Under powered but still...

Edited by Skyrimguy, 06 January 2013 - 01:05 PM.

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#347 Flare

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 02:03 PM

If you want me to try working on Scout Ranger I would like to, a ranger upgrade would be suitable for Benji rather than Beast Warrior.
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#348 Scubacarrot

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 02:41 PM

I like the idea. Here's some things I would like, though:

- Give some barrier to entry, at least. I think the idea for the expert classes is very cool, because you actually need to do certain stuff in order to be able to get to be one. As for WHAT exactly? I don't know, not gold related, since some would have a distinct advantage. Perhaps you need to get to a certain point in the unlimited quest or something like that?

-Change the names. Archmage and High Cleric arefine, but the rest are pretty awful to me. The clear connection to the base class does not to be clear from the name, really, I'm sure we can remember, I would say Fighter, Reaver or Gladiator for Barbarian, Scout, Keeper or Archer for Ranger, Crusader, Champion or Warrior for  Knight. Duelist, Shadow for Rogue. Not very important.

-Job trait suggestions: Knight: Diplomacy, Intimidation, Some sort of out of battle protect from traps thing. Barbarian: Restoration, Intimidation, BARBARIAN SMASH. Can smash through objects at the cost of 1 WP of a weapon, . Ranger: Animal Talk, Track Down, Keen Eye. Mage: Spellcasting, Something that allows them to exchange a certain number of health for ether, probably 10:1 or something, should be done so it can not be misused with the help of a cleric, so say they can only do it once between battles. Cleric: Healing, Spiritism, Out of battle Healing is free, free remedying?. Rogue: Flee, ´Badass Lockpicking`, Stealth? Quick Fingers? Something that allows them to throw two throwing weapons in one turn?

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#349 Flare

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 03:03 PM

View PostScubacarrot, on 06 January 2013 - 02:41 PM, said:

I like the idea. Here's some things I would like, though:

- Give some barrier to entry, at least. I think the idea for the expert classes is very cool, because you actually need to do certain stuff in order to be able to get to be one. As for WHAT exactly? I don't know, not gold related, since some would have a distinct advantage. Perhaps you need to get to a certain point in the unlimited quest or something like that?

You don't think that getting to Level 30 is enough of a barrier?
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#350 Scubacarrot

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 03:44 PM

View PostFlare, on 06 January 2013 - 03:03 PM, said:

You don't think that getting to Level 30 is enough of a barrier?

Yes absolutely. All the other expert classes have some other requirement, being it needed to done a specific quest or posessing a special item. If there was not a barrier to getting access to these, it would be bad.

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