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Heroica RPG theatre roleplaying tips reference guide

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#51 Flipz

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 01:47 AM

View PostScubacarrot, on 07 June 2012 - 09:51 PM, said:

By no means do I consider myself knowledgeable of any sort on the roleplaying front, and I must admit I haven't been following your roleplaying as Arthur very closely, but if you are having doubts about your own roleplaying, perhaps you could have your character have an identity crisis of sorts, from which he emerges more to your liking?

Yeah.  That's actually what I intended for this Quest to do for him, but it seems like I've taken a step back.  The attempted suicide had to happen like that, but I think the recovery was a bit too quick, and it's taking him in a direction I don't like.

Hmm...idea.  I'll have to mull it over and chat with the QMs, but it's definitely one way it could go.  Of course, it'd be WAY easier to run if Wren just set it up, but that's just my lazy side talking, it'll be MUCH better if it's set up naturally and any Wren-induced stuff is icing on the cake.

View PostCallMePie, on 07 June 2012 - 09:51 PM, said:

Just don't drag it (the crazy side of Arthur) out too long or have it come up in the spotlight too often. In small portions it turns out to be cool RPing, but too much and it goes sour. If that's what you mean.

Yeah.  Crazy's supposed to be a transitional stage, I think I took a step backwards from it though.  Don't want to go back, so I need to make a leap from "good with odd moral choices" more towards a darker personality without going through "crazy" again.

I find it VERY intriguing that you seem to be trying a similar thing with Atramor.  I have a feeling that Atramor could be quite beneficial to Arthur's development once I get past these current hurtles. :wink: :devil:

View PostScorpiox, on 07 June 2012 - 10:07 PM, said:

I think, the main flaw with Arthur at the moment, is that he doesn't seem to a clear path or mindset. A few events here and there occur, but none of them really change his overall personality or views, and appear a bit random. Like when he ate the Tethusial, it was absolutly hilarious, but all it gave the impression of was that Arthur was either very sick or bonkers. I couldn't really gleaner what significance it had. And when he attacked Isobella for 'stealing his kill'. That made me laugh quite a bit, but you never really explained a reason. Once again, instead of getting a clue of Arthur's past or hidden truth, it made me think that he might be a bit of a jerk. Don't get me wrong, Arthur was awesome in Quest #17. But I can't see anything big building up with him. I'm not saying that he needs to turn out to be a Ex-Millionaire-Genius-Playboy-Philanthropist until he lost his memory or something cheesy like that. But if he is going to do some slightly weird things occasionly, maybe consider writing a sort of direction for him, or it just comes off as a bit of a joke.

He is a bit of a jerk, but the hypocrisy I'm trying to generate doesn't seem to be reading.  I think I may be leaning on backstory a bit too much (hopefully revealing a little more of it will help, the flashback with Caroline really felt right, as did Arthur's first interaction with Wren that was more than two words).

OK, I think I know what I need to do.  Sorry, WBD, looks like that costume suggestion will have to wait for another time character!  :cry_sad:

Is probably depressed.  Real life sucks, yo.

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#52 Tanma

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 01:57 AM

Since this is roleplaying related and that goes here now, how has De'kra come of in this current event? Does he seem In Character for himself? Do his actiond seem natural for him?

For instance, does the eye thing seem out of place? I think I had his eyes turn green previously so I don't think it is random, and it was hinted to indirectly as well, but I have had his whole backstory in my head since day one so I might be blurring actions taken and actions planned. Thoughts?

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#53 CallMePie

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 02:03 AM

I try not to interact with McCafferey too much, it would run the risk of overdoing the whole 'interior roleplaying' deal. I limit it to interesting/critical events, and I'd like to think I'm doing an okay job of balancing it.  :grin: I think it would be a similar situation with the off side of Arthur's personality. For example, eating enemies after every victory is a no-no. Limit it to the boss battles. :rofl:
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#54 LEGOman273

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 03:13 AM

@Flipz:
Do you have any tips for helping me role-play Daxus?

#55 Dannylonglegs

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 04:03 AM

First of all, I think this thread for the discussion of roleplay is an excellent idea! I've read a bit of what's been said and it's really informative.  :wink:

So, I'm not sure if I have been roleplaying for my character enough or properly.  :sceptic: I like roleplaying, though I'm not fantastic at it, but my character doesn't really promote the kind of roleplaying that others seem to be able to spout out. The problem I think, is how secretive my character is. Not only is his race and gender unknown to the other heroes, but so most of his history. He knows fully well what he is and what his plans are, but he sees no reason to divulge his information to anyone. All anyone can tell about him, from how I've played him is that he's smart, and a bit cruel but occasionally polite, and overly careful. Also, what people do see of him is mostly a facade. Sylph feels it easiest to merely act polite to those he meets because he sees everyone as a potential ally or tool. He's a real psychopath, but I can't get that point across and stay in character. I also feel that his true identity may be too evil for Heroica. :sceptic: I'm so used to being the DM of my old DnD games that I prefer playing villains to heroes, but I know that villains and Heroes don't mix well. :sceptic:
Does anyone have any ideas as to how I can make him more entertaining if you don't think he's entertaining enough?

Edited by Dannylonglegs, 08 June 2012 - 04:09 AM.

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#56 Waterbrick Down

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 04:18 AM

Just a note on role-playing in general, don't take this whole Theatre topic as an offense toward your character if you don't feel like your very good at role-playing or don't like role-playing a lot into your character. Yes this is an RPG, but don't bend over backward or try to throw in some outrageous character development if it is not your thing. I think part of the fun of this whole game can be found in the variety of play styles we have represented here, yes we have the hard core role-players, but we also need the munchkin (min/max'ers [gamers]) to keep the Parties on task, and we need the odd-ball unconventional players (yes you know who you are) that are in it more for just enjoying the social experience in playing a community game to keep things from becoming too serious. So find that balance for yourself. Challenge yourself if you want to become better at a certain aspect, but don't think you have to start from ground zero just because intricate role-playing is the current "Hot Item", do what makes Heroica RPG an enjoyable experience for you.

Edited by Waterbrick Down, 08 June 2012 - 04:19 AM.

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#57 Zepher

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 05:46 AM

View PostCallMePie, on 08 June 2012 - 02:03 AM, said:

I try not to interact with McCafferey too much, it would run the risk of overdoing the whole 'interior roleplaying' deal. I limit it to interesting/critical events, and I'd like to think I'm doing an okay job of balancing it.  :grin: I think it would be a similar situation with the off side of Arthur's personality. For example, eating enemies after every victory is a no-no. Limit it to the boss battles. :rofl:

I think Atramor has been incredibly solid as a character recently.  You keep his talks with his chicken to the perfect amount.

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#58 CallMePie

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 05:56 AM

View PostZepher, on 08 June 2012 - 05:46 AM, said:

I think Atramor has been incredibly solid as a character recently.  You keep his talks with his chicken to the perfect amount.

Thanks. Boomingham's done just the opposite - Barty speaks in nearly all of his actions, but it feels a lot more fluid for some reason than most other alternate character players. :thumbup: On another note, I seriously hope he's not gone for good.  :cry_sad:

View PostWaterbrick Down, on 08 June 2012 - 04:18 AM, said:

I think part of the fun of this whole game can be found in the variety of play styles we have represented here, yes we have the hard core role-players, but we also need the munchkin (min/max'ers [gamers]) to keep the Parties on task, and we need the odd-ball unconventional players (yes you know who you are) that are in it more for just enjoying the social experience in playing a community game to keep things from becoming too serious.

Agreed, 100%. Docken, for one, is quite memorable despite the fact that he doesn't roleplay. It's fun for some, but not a necessity for everyone.

Edited by CallMePie, 08 June 2012 - 06:00 AM.

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#59 Fred Daniel Yam

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 12:19 PM

Alright, I suck at RP. All I end up with is demons or chaos stuff. Any advice?

Alright, I suck at RP. All I end up with is demons or chaos stuff. Any advice?

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#60 Tanma

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 02:39 PM

View PostVolcanicPanik, on 08 June 2012 - 12:19 PM, said:

Alright, I suck at RP. All I end up with is demons or chaos stuff. Any advice?

Alright, I suck at RP. All I end up with is demons or chaos stuff. Any advice?
Well, I haven't had a chance to really watch William as he is in a different Dastan Quest, so I probably can't help with specifics. I do think demonic possession and dark sides are overused, but I am not sure if that is what you are referring too. Roleplaying need not be so dramatic anyway, you could just be a farmer from a small isolated village who never left his small town. The culture shock of dealing with all the strange heroes and weird situations Heroica has would give great Roleplaying, even though the character themselves is rather plain. I am not sure if I am making sense here, I am kind of babbling.

Now again, I am probably "speaking the crazy," but if you are stuck on demons and chaos, why not twist that common theme? Chaos for instance is not inherently evil, it is just the lack of order. I for one associate free will with chaos, because what is more chaotic than people thinking for themselves, rather than obeying a single unifying thought? Sure chaos is bad if taken to the final extreme, but is order any better when taken to the farthest point? It might be interesting to see a demon or a follower of chaos who is more benevolent, wanting to free people from tyranny instead of just causing destruction. Does any of this make remote sense?

Also, can I get some feedback now? I don't mean to be rude, but I worried about how De'kra cones off right now, and the la k of comments is only fueling that concern.

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#61 Flipz

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 08:23 PM

View PostTanma, on 08 June 2012 - 02:39 PM, said:

Well, I haven't had a chance to really watch William as he is in a different Dastan Quest, so I probably can't help with specifics. I do think demonic possession and dark sides are overused, but I am not sure if that is what you are referring too. Roleplaying need not be so dramatic anyway, you could just be a farmer from a small isolated village who never left his small town. The culture shock of dealing with all the strange heroes and weird situations Heroica has would give great Roleplaying, even though the character themselves is rather plain. I am not sure if I am making sense here, I am kind of babbling.

Now again, I am probably "speaking the crazy," but if you are stuck on demons and chaos, why not twist that common theme? Chaos for instance is not inherently evil, it is just the lack of order. I for one associate free will with chaos, because what is more chaotic than people thinking for themselves, rather than obeying a single unifying thought? Sure chaos is bad if taken to the final extreme, but is order any better when taken to the farthest point? It might be interesting to see a demon or a follower of chaos who is more benevolent, wanting to free people from tyranny instead of just causing destruction. Does any of this make remote sense?

Also, can I get some feedback now? I don't mean to be rude, but I worried about how De'kra cones off right now, and the la k of comments is only fueling that concern.

I have the same problem with you that you have with Vol; I'm keeping myself in the dark about Dastan.  :sceptic:  From what I've seen, you have a pretty good idea about who De'kra is and where he's going, and you usually do an excellent job of playing him.  :thumbup:

View PostDannylonglegs, on 08 June 2012 - 04:03 AM, said:

First of all, I think this thread for the discussion of roleplay is an excellent idea! I've read a bit of what's been said and it's really informative.  :wink:

So, I'm not sure if I have been roleplaying for my character enough or properly.  :sceptic: I like roleplaying, though I'm not fantastic at it, but my character doesn't really promote the kind of roleplaying that others seem to be able to spout out. The problem I think, is how secretive my character is. Not only is his race and gender unknown to the other heroes, but so most of his history. He knows fully well what he is and what his plans are, but he sees no reason to divulge his information to anyone. All anyone can tell about him, from how I've played him is that he's smart, and a bit cruel but occasionally polite, and overly careful. Also, what people do see of him is mostly a facade. Sylph feels it easiest to merely act polite to those he meets because he sees everyone as a potential ally or tool. He's a real psychopath, but I can't get that point across and stay in character. I also feel that his true identity may be too evil for Heroica. :sceptic: I'm so used to being the DM of my old DnD games that I prefer playing villains to heroes, but I know that villains and Heroes don't mix well. :sceptic:
Does anyone have any ideas as to how I can make him more entertaining if you don't think he's entertaining enough?

You seem to be doing a pretty good job as well; you have a very Docken-esque "silent badass" thing going on, with a bit of "mysterious stranger" on the side.  Playing a character with secrets is a rather hard thing; one of my problems with Arthur is that he's keeping secrets about his past, and that there are secrets about him that he himself does not know.  When you have a secret, it's only going to be revealed if someone else brings it up; usually this means getting the QM to throw you a bone (that is, explaining privately the secret(s) you want revealed and asking for an opportunity to reveal them if possible) or else privately asking another player to take action that will lead to the secret's unveiling.  One lesson I'm learning the hard way is this: a secret only develops character if the audience knows it's there.  Using Arthur as an example, I was motivating a lot of Arthur's actions based on Caroline and other things in his past (BTW, did ANYONE notice the Portal reference? :tongue: ), but...no one knew about them.  And so, even though, internally, his actions had a semblence of reason attached to them (Step 1), there was no frame of reference for anyone to understand why they were reasonable for him (Step 2).  Now, I obviously don't want to reveal everything, but the reveal to the audience about Caroline in the flashback felt like a good move.  Do keep in mind, it is possible to reveal things to the audience without revealing them to other characters; you don't want to do it all the time (it's internal conflict, after all, and shouldn't be OVERused), but it is a good technique for establishing things about your character that wouldn't otherwise come out.

And of course, I'm still finding my way with Arthur on the very same issue, so whenever you see me fail epically...don't do that. :tongue:

View PostLEGOman273, on 08 June 2012 - 03:13 AM, said:

@Flipz:
Do you have any tips for helping me role-play Daxus?

I don't really have a frame of reference for Daxus; not that I haven't paid attention, but that he's not really differentiated himself from a basic Rogue yet.  Define him a bit more clearly in your mind, and get to know his traits, including those that would be slightly odd or unusual.  As an example, Mizuki is in most respects a "basic" Rogue, but she loves hot chocolate.  It's a small quirk, but it adds a LOT to the character.  What's unusual about Daxus?  Does he brush his hair with a fork?  Does he only eat beef that's been dipped in honey?  Was he secretly forced to take ballroom dancing lessons as a child, a skill that (to his chagrin) he has retained to this day?  Flesh him out a bit that way and he'll take on a life of his own.  When your character seems to be choosing their own actions, you're on the right track. :wink:

View PostVolcanicPanik, on 08 June 2012 - 12:19 PM, said:

Alright, I suck at RP. All I end up with is demons or chaos stuff. Any advice?

Some of my advice for Daxus also applies here.  Some notes specifically for Harkenshire, though: he seems to take delight in destroying things; it's an unusual choice for the normally nature-loving Rangers, why is he like that?  He also doesn't usually think to use Nature Talk unless prompted to do so by the rest of the party; why?  This is the next step; once you determined a few things that make your character a more believable person, you need to figure out why they have those traits.  This is getting a bit into the Backstory topic I haven't discussed yet, but to put it simply: if Real Life, our Backstory determines our traits.  When making a character, we go the other way around; their traits determine what their backstory needs to be.  A fair amount of Arthur's backstory sets him up to be a Sorcerer, because that was my intention for him when I wrote it; while "turning" from darkness seemed a reasonable choice for him, in truth it defied his backstory and his ultimate end, and so it must be undone.  With William, you have an opportunity for a loose but detailed backstory, defining specific events in his life but not "aiming" for a specific outcome.  This will allow him to develop organically, not "locking" yourself into one path, while at the same time having that specific base of backdrop that is essential to character development.

To reiterate: there are two kinds of backstory: "locked," completely defined stories that lay out a specific path for the character to follow, and "loose" stories in which specific influences are known and defined, but that are open enough to allow spontaneous development.  Both are useful in their own way; it's a matter of preference which one you'll choose.  A word of caution, though: "locked" backstories ARE more difficult, because you have to wait for the next event that will "trigger" development, and you never know when that will be, which means you may have to pass up options that don't fit your character; "loose" backstories allow more freedom in development, and allow for more opportunities for the character to surprise you.

Also note: backstory does not necessarily have to be explained in-character; passing references to it, a casual thought or remark, can be enough to justify it to the audience; see Noodle Incident for examples of this.



I leave you with one last word about ALL incidences of character development; generally speaking, you want to show, don't tell.  Don't tell us how your sister's boyfriend beating you up when you were little made you fearful of black-haired men, show us your fear.  Even if someone asks you to explain, only talk about the cause ("My sister's black-haired boyfriend beat me up when I was little"), not the effect ("[s]so  I'm afraid of men with black hair"). :wink:

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#62 Zepher

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 08:36 PM

Tanma, De'kra seems very spot on almost all the time.  He's one of my favorite characters for Heroica because he is so different and sees the world through a very different lens.  The issue I have with him is personal - I don't know Bionicle's story at all, so his backstory and the names that he drops are a complete mystery to me, which is too bad because I'm extremely interested in it, but don't have the time to put into researching it.  Other than that, which effects me and not all the players, I think De'kra has stayed true to his point of view.  He's very much nurturing v. destruction, and masses v. individual, and that's what interests me about him so much, and that's what you've consistently played.

On a side note, I'm trying something new with Boomingham that I think I'll keep for the rest of my role-playing time.  I will only explain actions and words.  I will not write any of his thoughts or have flashbacks.  He is a character.  You only see other people from the outside, so that's all of Boomingham I want to show.

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#63 Tanma

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 12:22 AM

View PostZepher, on 08 June 2012 - 08:36 PM, said:

Tanma, De'kra seems very spot on almost all the time.  He's one of my favorite characters for Heroica because he is so different and sees the world through a very different lens.  The issue I have with him is personal - I don't know Bionicle's story at all, so his backstory and the names that he drops are a complete mystery to me, which is too bad because I'm extremely interested in it, but don't have the time to put into researching it.  Other than that, which effects me and not all the players, I think De'kra has stayed true to his point of view.  He's very much nurturing v. destruction, and masses v. individual, and that's what interests me about him so much, and that's what you've consistently played.

On a side note, I'm trying something new with Boomingham that I think I'll keep for the rest of my role-playing time.  I will only explain actions and words.  I will not write any of his thoughts or have flashbacks.  He is a character.  You only see other people from the outside, so that's all of Boomingham I want to show.
Thank you. Sorry if I seemed to panic or nag back there.

Yeah, I realize that some people miss the references, but I am on the fence as to whether that is bad or not though. I mean it makes it hard for players and characters to understand his references, but I think it helps set him up as an outsider. No one in Heroica knows about the Empirei or any other thing he might mention, so it kind of pushes him away from the norm. And since many players don't know the events either, it could add to their character's confusion. Like how we in Dastan are not reading the other quests. Does that make sense? Either way, if anyone ever has questions, I might be able to answer them. I won't give away key stuff like who De'kra was in the Bionicle story or who the voice is, but stuff like what Gali did in Karzahni would be fine.

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#64 Palathadric

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 12:33 AM

View PostZepher, on 08 June 2012 - 08:36 PM, said:

On a side note, I'm trying something new with Boomingham that I think I'll keep for the rest of my role-playing time.  I will only explain actions and words.  I will not write any of his thoughts or have flashbacks.  He is a character.  You only see other people from the outside, so that's all of Boomingham I want to show.
This makes a lot of sense. We, the other characters, cannot read Boomingham's mind...I think :look: so we shouldn't be able to know about all his flashbacks, etc...even his thoughts. Of course, for some characters that don't talk a lot trying this out may not be such a good idea.
Personally, I really like Sylph. He is just so mysterious, quiet, intelliget, and whatever. If I hadn't gone for the fanatical Pretzel I would have gone for a Sylph-like character. I don't know why.
I very much like how CMP has not overly used his chicken. :grin: For people playing duel personalities I would definitely say the CMP and Zepher are the pros. :wub:  (Is it redundant if I too say that "I hope Barty is coming back soon!!!" :sing: )
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#65 Dannylonglegs

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 05:19 AM

View PostWaterbrick Down, on 08 June 2012 - 04:18 AM, said:

Don't take this whole Theatre topic as an offense toward your character if you don't feel like your very good at role-playing or don't like role-playing a lot into your character.
The problem isn't that I don't like role-playing or that I think I'm bad at it (I don't think I am :blush: ) I was mostly just worried that my character came off as boring, static, too mysterious, or underdeveloped. I'm playing it slow with him, but I worry that I play it too slow. I definitely want him to get worked into his advanced class a bit before I reveal much about his backstory apart from the occasionally dropped dead mentor. Thank you for your feedback, and I'm not trying to bend-over backwards to become an outrageous roleplayer. Sylph isn't really, outrageous. :laugh: He may snark sometimes though. :wink:

View PostFlipz, on 08 June 2012 - 08:23 PM, said:

You seem to be doing a pretty good job as well; you have a very Docken-esque "silent badass" thing going on, with a bit of "mysterious stranger" on the side.
Perfect! That's what I was going for!  :sweet: (Although, I hate to ask, who's Docken?)

View PostFlipz, on 08 June 2012 - 08:23 PM, said:

Playing a character with secrets is a rather hard thing; one of my problems with Arthur is that he's keeping secrets about his past, and that there are secrets about him that he himself does not know.  When you have a secret, it's only going to be revealed if someone else brings it up; usually this means getting the QM to throw you a bone (that is, explaining privately the secret(s) you want revealed and asking for an opportunity to reveal them if possible) or else privately asking another player to take action that will lead to the secret's unveiling. One lesson I'm learning the hard way is this: a secret only develops character if the audience knows it's there.
I've noticed. Exactly.

View PostFlipz, on 08 June 2012 - 08:23 PM, said:

Using Arthur as an example, I was motivating a lot of Arthur's actions based on Caroline and other things in his past (BTW, did ANYONE notice the Portal reference? :tongue: ), but...no one knew about them.  And so, even though, internally, his actions had a semblence of reason attached to them (Step 1), there was no frame of reference for anyone to understand why they were reasonable for him (Step 2).  Now, I obviously don't want to reveal everything, but the reveal to the audience about Caroline in the flashback felt like a good move.  Do keep in mind, it is possible to reveal things to the audience without revealing them to other characters; you don't want to do it all the time (it's internal conflict, after all, and shouldn't be OVERused), but it is a good technique for establishing things about your character that wouldn't otherwise come out.

Interesting. A flash back is a really interesting idea (and I do believe I did see yours and thought the same then.  :wink: ) However I'm not sure I will use it, at least not for a while. (and I wouldn't want to steal your idea :tongue: ) I'm not sure how else anyone will find out about the darker points in his past, although I can foresee a few. :sceptic: I would not want to present very much internal conflict at the moment either. I would like to keep up the mysterious stranger, and presenting too much info to the audience might jeopardize that.

View PostPalathadric, on 09 June 2012 - 12:33 AM, said:

Personally, I really like Sylph. He is just so mysterious, quiet, intelliget, and whatever. If I hadn't gone for the fanatical Pretzel I would have gone for a Sylph-like character. I don't know why.
Wow, thanks! I'm pleased that my character isn't as boring as I thought.  :blush:
(Oh, and about you're character, I'm really glad that you went with a fanatical cleric! It is sort of the point of Clerics. :wink: )

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#66 LEGOman273

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 05:52 AM

View PostDannylonglegs, on 09 June 2012 - 05:19 AM, said:

(Although, I hate to ask, who's Docken?)
@Brickdoctor's character. :wink:

#67 Dannylonglegs

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 06:04 AM

View PostLEGOman273, on 09 June 2012 - 05:52 AM, said:

@Brickdoctor's character. :wink:
I'm so bad with names. :hmpf: I usually associate characters with pictures and who's playing them.  :wink:

That's also one of the reasons I make up nicknames for all the characters Sylph interacts with.

Edited by Dannylonglegs, 09 June 2012 - 06:23 AM.

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#68 Palathadric

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 11:45 AM

View PostDannylonglegs, on 09 June 2012 - 05:19 AM, said:

(Oh, and about you're character, I'm really glad that you went with a fanatical cleric! It is sort of the point of Clerics. :wink: )
I actually went for the cleric because I noticed how few clerics there seemed to be in Heroica. The other class would've had to have been a rogue or something and there were so many of them. That's why I went for the cleric. ...and besides, it's a whole lot more fun! :laugh:
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#69 Waterbrick Down

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 05:08 AM

Taking up the conversation from the Rules and Discussion topic, how does one role-play predetermined/predestined choices/directions you want your character to go? First off, should one even plan one's character's future or should you role-play a character on a situation by situation basis? The only future event/decision I ever took with Skrall was advanced class selection, I knew that he wasn't going to use ether as that was established from his background and his lack of any reason to do so from the quests he had participated upon. Even so, I let the final decision dependent upon the outcome of the final moments of quest 19, if Skrall had killed one of the NPC he would have become an Assassin, if he had killed Wren, he would have become a Warden, and as neither of those scenarios occurred, he became a Hunter consumed with tracking down Wren. That aside, I have found that it is easier to role-play now that Skrall isn't heading in a certain direction aside from what has influenced him in the past (mainly previous quests, not backstory), he has a defined personality, but I'm not waiting for other players to draw out a predetermined story from him by providing hooks, he has a life of his own now (one that I control, but not in the sense that I have everything planned out 3 quests ahead in the future). To some degree, I think we all have stories that we want to tell with our characters, we all want our characters to be the protagonist in the grand overarching story of Heroica, but we need to learn that while we all are part of this world and contribute to it in our own way, we need to be careful that we aren't trying so hard to advance our own characters story, that we forget that they are only 1 in somewhere over 100 characters (both PC's and now named NPC's) existing in a story that is advancing whether we like it or not and sorry, but that's what we kind of signed up for to some degree or another when we joined. Any other thoughts?

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#70 Flipz

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 05:17 AM

View PostWaterbrick Down, on 19 June 2012 - 04:46 AM, said:

I'm sorry to hear that Flipz, but sometimes it can be hard if you put too much dependence upon events that may not pan out in the end, I have to agree with Zepher's style of role-playing and maybe this may be a better subject for the theatre, but it's easier to have a character that reacts to things rather than have predestined reactions already written up for the right moment.

Yeah.  My mistake with Arthur was giving him an arc; it's a great idea in theory, but in practice luck tends to screw you up.  Also, I set up a lot of things about Arthur's homeland that no one would ever get the chance to see; true, the place WOULD be an interesting place to set a Quest (I even considered it a while before scrapping the idea), but then it's getting into Sue territory, setting up an entire Quest just to reveal things about Arthur's backstory, and even then there wouldn't be any guarantee that it would end up being revealed (just look at how much I've screwed up Doc's latest Quest).

I think this is a trap for people like me who take roleplaying just a bit too seriously; in all of my rush to try and be "authentic", to try and figure out what Arthur would do in any given situation, I've made him too stiff and inflexible, and unable to respond to anything unexpected.

View PostWaterbrick Down, on 19 June 2012 - 04:46 AM, said:

This is where role-playing is different from just writing a novel, you are dependent upon other players to not help you write your character's story, but actually write your character's story themselves. It's hard to grasp the fact, but our characters are not the lead roles and everyone else a supporting actor, that perspective is something you have to give up when you become part of Heroica. Arthur, Skrall, Cronk, Atramor, Boomingham, they are now all part of a larger story in which none of them are the main character per say, you as the player have to be willing to give up control to some extent to how your characters evolve.

Connections.  That was the last "c" I was looking for in the section on conflict.  I called them "interactions", but it really is connections.  There's some irony in there involving me specifically telling players to trust other players to develop their characters, but not taking that advice myself.  I broke off Arthur's connections when I should have been building them up, and then I tried to repair them when an antagonistic connection had already been formed by his antisocial reactions.  No connections, no character, and I just can't seem to let Arthur go enough to develop him properly--he has a "destiny," and he shouldn't.

View PostWaterbrick Down, on 19 June 2012 - 04:46 AM, said:

Now I'm not saying that it can't be done, from my read on Arthur, you've been trying to make him go down a darker path, but the opportunities to do so just aren't coming up, to some degree then you have to take on the job of getting him their yourself, you have to use the things the QM gives you and not be too dependent upon other players to draw it out of Arthur. I feel like I'm starting to ramble so I'll stop here and maybe take up the conversation in the theatre.

That's what I'm trying, but it's not working.  I actually liked it better when Arthur was rolling "fail" and "damage" all the time, I had something to work with for that path.  Then again, that's just copying Khorne...which is another roleplaying mistake: trying to follow in someone else's footsteps.  If something fits, it fits, of course, but it should never be intentionally shoehorned in.  I've shoehorned in a LOT of things for Arthur, and he's become non-viable because of it.

Maybe I should just write another play: "How NOT to Roleplay: The Curious Case of Arthur Justus Regulus VII". :laugh:

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#71 Waterbrick Down

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 05:24 AM

It's always a learning experience, I think you hit the nail on the head when you mentioned that Arthur had a "destiny" and he shouldn't have. The same is true for all of our characters, in can be done to some extent and we all do it when we're selecting an advanced class more or less, it is just more difficult to accomplish it without it looking forced and more like a novel about your character than an organic decision that they have come to based upon their past experiences. Every character is savable, you just have to be willing to let them go where they will without utilizing a strict "he will do this, this, this, and this because that's what I always envisioned him doing" mentality. If you want to start over, there is no one stopping you and I look forward to any chacarcter you might bring into the hall as I'm certain they will always be great fun to watch.

Edited by Waterbrick Down, 19 June 2012 - 05:26 AM.

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#72 Zepher

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 05:34 AM

It's as simple as this:

If you have a story to tell, host a quest.  There, players are obligated to play along with your plot, even if they don't like it.

If you want to see a human grow, play a character.  That's straight forward too.  Characters experience quests, they don't get to run them.  Not only would that logistically be a headache for any QM (again, everyone on every BD quest owes him a huge debt, he builds a huge number of sets for you guys because you go random places), but it also wouldn't make sense.  WBD talked about the 100 or so PC/NPCs.  Think about that.  Your one character can't change the fate of Dastan.  Sorry, there are at least 15 NPCs in my quest alone, all pulling strings that make the characters go certain places and do certain things.  That's true in real life for real people too.  Sometimes you're told to go somewhere, and that's where you go, and while you didn't choose that event, it affects you, or, in the case of Heroica, your character.

Characters must, to be believable, react to events.  That is how real people form.  That is the experience you are having.  It is the only experience you're having as a player.  You don't pick the story (that's the QM's job) you just walk through it.  The only thing you and your character can actually, realistically control are your reactions to events before you.  That's what makes a good read.  Let them react.  Nur thinks slavery is wrong.  Did Jebs know that before running into the Rocklings?  Maybe, probably not.  But just watching the events he was forced into, and seeing how Nur reacted, he made a great character.  Control what you can control, react to what you can't, remember most things have many other forces causing them to happen, just like in the real world.

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#73 Scubacarrot

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 06:47 AM

I agree mostly with what has been said before: Developing your own character's story is not what it's all about, it's not a novel, after all. What I am doing with Guts is a little different: I have tried to give him a clear personality in my head, and I DO want to tell a story with him, the difference is that that story mostly plays in the past, which should help give clearity why he is who he is. That does not mean his decisions, actions and reactions are predetermined, and Guts is still shaping up, due to encounters and allies. In particular Quest 13 and now Quest 34 have given him a lot to consider and think about. The great thing is, what the big events will actually lead to? I don't know, yet. The best thing you can do is simple: do what you want. The moment you do something with your character you don't actually like, you are doing it wrong.

That said, a very important thing to consider is that your story should never hinder or inconvenience the quest you are on, it is disrespectful to both the fellow players and the host. I even think stuff like Haldor sitting out a battle because of roleplay is borderline. (But though the battle went very well, if it was a hard battle that would have lost because there was one less player, I know I would not be very happy)

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#74 Flipz

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 07:31 AM

View PostZepher, on 19 June 2012 - 05:34 AM, said:

It's as simple as this:

If you have a story to tell, host a quest.  There, players are obligated to play along with your plot, even if they don't like it.

If you want to see a human grow, play a character.  That's straight forward too.  

That's...an excellent way of putting it. :thumbup:


View PostScubacarrot, on 19 June 2012 - 06:47 AM, said:

That said, a very important thing to consider is that your story should never hinder or inconvenience the quest you are on, it is disrespectful to both the fellow players and the host. I even think stuff like Haldor sitting out a battle because of roleplay is borderline. (But though the battle went very well, if it was a hard battle that would have lost because there was one less player, I know I would not be very happy)
This is why I didn't keep Arthur in the bar, even though it would be more in-character to be indecisive.  I (suddenly) realized he is now acting Party Leader, and decided to push him a little out-of-character so the Quest could move on and be fun for the other players.  And you know what?  It turned out better than I thought.

View PostScubacarrot, on 19 June 2012 - 06:47 AM, said:

The moment you do something with your character you don't actually like, you are doing it wrong.
Yeah.  I'm definitely doing it wrong here.

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#75 RPGer

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 01:07 PM

I'm doing it wrong as well.....even worse than Flipz...

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