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WIP East Indiaman


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17 replies to this topic  – Started by Sebeus I , May 20 2012 05:45 PM

#1 Sebeus I

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 05:45 PM

I decided to post my progress anyway.
I entered my ship in the Jolly Rodger Contest a while ago but because of the deadline I didn't have the chance to put much detail in it. So I decided to demolish a great part of it to start over again  :pir-classic:
The ship itself is based enirely on the Black Pearl, exterior and interior alike, I only changed some colors and added some details (I will add chaser cannons for example).
Current state:

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As you can see it has a complete hull, no waterline model this time.

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I have made an interior sketch but I forgot to reduce it's size so here's the link

As you can see there is the hold, on top of that the gun deck and then the weather deck (which will also hold guns)

Starting with the hold:
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The hold is pretty spacy, lots of room for cargo, I can accomodate 4 horses (or cows), on these picures it holds 25 barrels and some chests, nicely placed against the sides.

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Near the bow there are two compartiments reserved for goats and chickens... I don't have goats nor chickens so I used a pig and a brickbuilt chicken  :pir_laugh2:
Then there's the foremost staircase (leading to the gun deck). it is situated in the main hold where also the cargo is stored.
The main hold goes up to the second staircase. then there are two cells (brigs).

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After the brig is some more space for cargo and at the end (near the stern) is the armory.
The armory is actually Jack's rum storage :P
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The brig is functional ofcourse and there's one on each side.

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The main hold.

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A part of the cabin, exactly the same as my old Black Pearl, I just knew it was a good Idea to keep the stern section (I demolished the rest).
It fits perfectly on my new hold, which makes sense because both ships were based on the same plan (the black pearl plan).

All right so far you have only seen the hold. the gun deck will rest on tiles so it can be taken out to reveal the hold. I recently managed to make the hull strong enough so it doesn't need the decks for extra strenght. There was a price to pay though, the long bars in the armory for example (they are an extra connection of stern and the rest of the hull, before they were added the stern tended to hang over a bit too much).

There's still a lot of work to be done, difficult work, it's hard to keep the tumblehome while the decks need to come out  :pir_wacko:

Edited by Sebeus Iniwum, 20 May 2012 - 06:08 PM.


#2 Admiral Croissant

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 06:46 PM

Very nice! Of course the concept was great already but this ship just looks very promising.
I really like the interior details like the sword and pistol holders, and the pig place.
The archer's stuff seems a bit outdated though, on the other hand, the yellow gunline seems a bit too modern.
But perhaps yellow wouldn't be an impossible colour. At least it doesn't look bad :thumbup:
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#3 Frank Brick Wright

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 08:18 PM

View PostAdmiral Croissant, on 20 May 2012 - 06:46 PM, said:

The archer's stuff seems a bit outdated though, on the other hand, the yellow gunline seems a bit too modern.


Agreed. After such a dark hull yellow seems a bit out of place but I guess it is possible anyway.
I specially like the hold, it is quite detailed and is rare to see one of this in MOCs! Nice too that you started with brick-built hulls Posted Image

There is just one thing I don't really like, and it is in this photo:

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As you would be able to see easily from a ship's plans this isn't very accurate. You basically built a straight line from almost the very bottom and it rounds quite something. It is only accurate to build it that straight-forward from the gun's deck I think and you started some 3 bricks lower which looks odd.
The horizontal curve is perfect though. Nice project, waiting for updates Posted Image

Edited by Frank Brick Wright, 20 May 2012 - 08:46 PM.

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#4 Ecclesiastes

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 09:41 PM

:thumbup: That's very impressive so far. I really like the brickbuild ship and the interior!

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#5 Sebeus I

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 10:33 PM

View PostAdmiral Croissant, on 20 May 2012 - 06:46 PM, said:

...
The archer's stuff seems a bit outdated though, on the other hand, the yellow gunline seems a bit too modern.
...
I had Dread Pirate Wesley's ship-of-the-line in mind when I chose colors, If I would have made a white hull I would used different colors though. Originally the archer's stuff was there as an alternative for gunpowder but eventually I realized that didn't make sense either, gunpowder can be kept dry by taking precautions and then there's a moving ship, strong wind blowing, etc, not really ideal conditions for archery  :pir_laugh2:
Still, I wanted to fill my ship with lots of things, there are supposed to be three pairs of snowshoes somewhere in the hold (probably in a chest), a pitchfork, some magnifying glasses and lots of hammers, keys, wrenches and other tools, you can't have enough equipment  :pir-classic:

View PostFrank Brick Wright, on 20 May 2012 - 08:18 PM, said:

...

As you would be able to see easily from a ship's plans this isn't very accurate. You basically built a straight line from almost the very bottom and it rounds quite something. It is only accurate to build it that straight-forward from the gun's deck I think and you started some 3 bricks lower which looks odd.
The horizontal curve is perfect though. Nice project, waiting for updates Posted Image


Yes, I saw it even on the Black Pearl plan itself, too late though, I don't have much experience with the underside of ships  :pir_laugh2:
It's something I will definitely pay attention to on future ships. As for this one, it would practically require a new hull design, I don't really see a simple way to correct the hull without taking it apart.
Someday I will build a ship-of-the-line, at this point I think this type of hull is perfect, I would build it in white and ofcourse with some better curve near the keel instead of those flat parts .
Not anywhere soon though, I have plenty of Idea's to get started now but I lack the bricks  :pir_bawling:

#6 Sebeus I

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 03:46 PM

Posted Image

Better ?

#7 Frank Brick Wright

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 09:01 PM

That's it, fantastic work! You get space for the hold and it looks very sturdy! However, if you want to build the orlop, I would suggest that you built the curve some slopes further. Check this basic plan:

(sorry but the image is slightly over-sized)

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As you can see each curve tends to have more height than breadth and in the most widest position it basically makes a square while yours is longer than higher Posted Image This really doesn't matter and doesn't have great visible effects except that the hull might look too short but "normal" people won't notice that Posted Image But if you build her higher, then you get the orlop INSIDE the hull, which is precisely what you want because it has a perfect shape and curvature and then you can use the fantastic CGH technique up from the guns deck, thus avoiding those large straight lines ruining your fantastic work Posted Image

I think I will build my next ship (when this one gets finished -.-) with your technique! It looks sturdier and more elegant after all, avoiding the complex structure required to keep the hinges. Can you tell an esteem of how many slopes you used to make your East Indianman hull? (great design Posted Image)

A ship is floating in the harbour now,

The wind is hovering o'er the mountain's brow;

There is a path on the sea's azure floor,

No keel has ever ploughed that path before

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#8 Sebeus I

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 09:46 PM

Ah, that picture will be very useful.

View PostFrank Brick Wright, on 21 May 2012 - 09:01 PM, said:

Can you tell an esteem of how many slopes you used to make your East Indianman hull? (great design Posted Image)

In terms of my collection there's an easy answer; all of them  :pir_laugh2:
Well, not entirely, I used all of my 2x1x3 and 2x2x3 slopebricks which is:

About 44 of these : Posted Image (though I often used two 2x1x3's instead, 44 would be ideal)
22 of these: Posted Image


Furthermore...
You need about 60 in these slopes Posted Image (can be combined with wider ones) (60 is a number when you would only use the thin slopes).
Actually it would look nicer if you used these ones in 90% of the cases Posted Image then you wouldn't have the studs on the side  :pir-sweet:

and 120 of these Posted Image (also to be combined with wider slopes, which I strongly advice btw) (120 is a number when only used the thin slopes).

And then you need some inverted slopes as well, for the keel.
Besides slopes there's also a great deal of SNOT parts involved,  
Like these Posted Image (in most cases its color is not important)
and these Posted Image (color is more critical here as part of it is often visible at the underside of the hull).

I'm considering making the hull in LDD as well, it's relatively simple... well, easy to say for the builder  :pir_laugh2:
Nothing like my dutchman's hull, trying to make that one in LDD is simply crazy.

Edited by Sebeus I, 21 May 2012 - 09:51 PM.


#9 Frank Brick Wright

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 10:24 PM

View PostSebeus I, on 21 May 2012 - 09:46 PM, said:

Actually it would look nicer if you used these ones in 90% of the cases Posted Image then you wouldn't have the studs on the side  :pir-sweet:



Tilling that studs row would work too I guess Posted Image


A ship is floating in the harbour now,

The wind is hovering o'er the mountain's brow;

There is a path on the sea's azure floor,

No keel has ever ploughed that path before

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#10 Legonardo

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 06:00 AM

Awesome! :pir-wub: :pir-wub:  
I know I'm going to sound like a total noob for this but what exactly is an east-indiaman?
=Legonardo=

Edited by Legonardo Davidy, 22 May 2012 - 07:36 AM.

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#11 Kerntechniker

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 12:02 PM

Your WIP looks great. I really want to see the finished ship.
All the details of your East Indiaman trading ship are lovely.

Keep mocing.

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#12 Horry

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 12:12 PM

View PostLegonardo Davidy, on 22 May 2012 - 06:00 AM, said:

Awesome! :pir-wub: :pir-wub:  
I know I'm going to sound like a total noob for this but what exactly is an east-indiaman?
=Legonardo=

East-Indiaman was a general term for ships that used to carry goods for the East-India Companies of the European Countries. They were a common sight in the 18th century.

That hull really is a beauty, Sebeus! You have done it again  :pir-cry_happy:
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#13 Sebeus I

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 04:15 PM

View PostLegonardo Davidy, on 22 May 2012 - 06:00 AM, said:

Awesome! :pir-wub: :pir-wub:  
I know I'm going to sound like a total noob for this but what exactly is an east-indiaman?
=Legonardo=

I do not know much about the historical context, I do know that these ships where used both as merchant ships and battleships, I see an East-indiaman as a ship class in between Frigates and Ship-of-the-lines.
I'm not going to use my ship in war nor trading, I find it a perfect ship for expeditions/exploration, the spacy hold allows for long voyages and independency, incase there would be a pirate attack there is a fully accomodated gun deck and armory to rely on.

#14 Sebeus I

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 12:55 PM

I tried a new stern design, for the moment it's not working out very well  :pir-sceptic:

But I'm not giving up yet   :bonaparte:
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I lowered the upper deck by one brick, now the gun deck has a hight of 4 bricks +2 plates, I justify that by recalling a POTC scene on the Black Pearl being attacked by the Kraken.
Anyway, this means a basic minifigure can stand up but not with high headgear (Skako, bi-/tricorner with plume).

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By altering the stern so dramatically I'm bound to let go of my original cabin Idea as well  :pir-sceptic:

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The colors are also a Issue, I hope this doesn't turn out to be a rainbow ship, the red railings, the yellow gun deck and the blue cabin ...  :pir-sceptic:

It Might sound strange but I think it would be a lot easier to build a larger ship with this hull technique, If I ever make a ship-of-the-line there's a big chance I'll go for this type of hull.
A cross-section similar to this but bigger perhaps (I want a 100 gun ship...atleast  :pir_laugh2:  )
Posted Image

Edited by Sebeus I, 25 July 2012 - 01:28 PM.


#15 Frank Brick Wright

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 03:14 PM

I had made some designs of what a complete cross-section of a ship of the line would look like a few months ago when you showed your technique to us Posted Image

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What's great about this is that it easily allows to build a minifig-scale ship. Minifig-scale would be around 1:45 if you consider the average man to be 1.80m. We can round it up to 1:50 for calculation purposes. If you want to build a ship-of-the-line with, say, 12m of beam then you will get 30 studs of beam. In my photo you have 32 which is quite close and IMO the best size to use with this technique. Bigger is also possible but if you get smaller it will be harder. Since you get only a few different angles you can work with (plus you can use normal bricks like 1x2 for the middle sections of the ship where the curve is almost parallel to the horizontal plane) in a smaller size the shapes starts to get distorted.

About the deck height 5 bricks is around the perfect height, more or less and varying from ship to ship, so yours is right in there Posted Image

About the build in itself Posted Image I specially like the rudder, I don't entirely figure out how it is attached but it certainly is very clever! I might be wrong but the only thing that pops up to me is the length. I think she is a little too bulky, even for an East Indiaman. I don't know in what precisely are you basing her and an East Indiaman is a wide concept so it is quite possible her length is alright Posted Image I'm very curious to see how this evolves, keep the fine work!

A ship is floating in the harbour now,

The wind is hovering o'er the mountain's brow;

There is a path on the sea's azure floor,

No keel has ever ploughed that path before

(Percy Bysshe Shelley)


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#16 Sebeus I

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 12:12 PM

View PostFrank Brick Wright, on 25 July 2012 - 03:14 PM, said:

I had made some designs of what a complete cross-section of a ship of the line would look like a few months ago when you showed your technique to us Posted Image
...
Yes, something like that, nice  :pir_laugh2:  
I didn't even realize I would be able to make two decks below lower gun deck  :pir_laugh2:
Eventhough I think I can make such ship steady enough to keep it in one piece I'll still make it in modular sections, I learned from my current ship that this is the only decent way for an accessible interior  :pir-sceptic:

View PostFrank Brick Wright, on 25 July 2012 - 03:14 PM, said:

About the build in itself Posted Image I specially like the rudder, I don't entirely figure out how it is attached but it certainly is very clever!
Actually it's very simple, originally meant as a temporary sollution, since it was so effective I kept it, here's a picture of how it's attached:

Posted Image

When I first tried this I thought there was no way it would hold but reality prooved otherwise :pir_laugh2:

View PostFrank Brick Wright, on 25 July 2012 - 03:14 PM, said:

I might be wrong but the only thing that pops up to me is the length. I think she is a little too bulky, even for an East Indiaman. I don't know in what precisely are you basing her and an East Indiaman is a wide concept so it is quite possible her length is alright Posted Image I'm very curious to see how this evolves, keep the fine work!
Well, that might be an issue, I based this ship entirely on the Black Pearl, because the pearl has this large overhanging cabin it doesn't look that bulky when complete. Since I abondoned the overhanging cabin she might look bulky indeed, always risky to deviate from the plan  :pir_wacko:

Oh well, if the ship doesn't turn out good atleast I learned a lot in the building process, the experience will help me on the next ship, for now I'll just focus on finishing this one.

Edited by Sebeus I, 26 July 2012 - 03:19 PM.


#17 Merlins owl

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 05:32 PM

This is looking very nice, I am enjoying the custom hull.

#18 Matteo1130

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 11:34 PM

...amazing...




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