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Imperial Flagship, Arbiter


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29 replies to this topic  – Started by ZCerberus , Nov 10 2006 05:52 AM

#1 ZCerberus

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Posted 10 November 2006 - 05:52 AM

So now that I have the CAD finished on the harbor ( http://eurobricks.ho...?showtopic=6681 ), I am going to share a couple pictures of the ships that will be patrolling the friendly waters.  I have 5 Imperial "ships" in all, but only two have any pictures, and the pictures are only so so in terms of quality (and dustiness).  I hope to retake them next weekend.  But until then, a few pics of the Arbiter.

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Arbiter

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#2 Mister Phes

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Posted 10 November 2006 - 07:50 AM

So this is the Arbiter?

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#3 jamtf

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Posted 10 November 2006 - 12:52 PM

White hulls... I am not too fond of the color choice. Brown 6285 hulls (or with red accents like the 6286) would make the ship look a lot better and more impressive. Even the reddish hulls from 6289 or 6290 are better if you ask me.

Everything is a bit dusty as well...
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#4 ZCerberus

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Posted 10 November 2006 - 02:29 PM

View Postjamtf, on Nov 10 2006, 06:52 AM, said:

White hulls... I am not too fond of the color choice. Brown 6285 hulls (or with red accents like the 6286) would make the ship look a lot better and more impressive. Even the reddish hulls from 6289 or 6290 are better if you ask me.

Everything is a bit dusty as well...


I am aware of the dust.

The white hulls were used because it was initially made of the brown hulls you speak of, but they were the ones from the Imperial flagship (the skinnier ones) and as such the only choices in that size were brown and white.  Since I didn't have either enough brown ones, or enough white ones, there were black inverted slopes making up the hulls in the middle, which did not look particularly good.  Then after I discovered part shopping on the internet, it was easier to get white hulls because it wasn't too long after the release of the Armada flagship.  Hence, I got enough white ones to make the blue inverted slopes that I still have to use not look too out of place.  As you will notice, I am still two and a quarter hulls away from having the ship be completely made from Lego hulls.  that would mean I would need 7 1/4 middle hulls to change the color scheme to some thing else.

I actually like the color scheme, but you can disagree.

Plus, after I changed the hulls over to white, I had enough brown ones left over to make my second ship, the Covenant.

View PostMister Phes, on Nov 10 2006, 01:50 AM, said:

So this is the Arbiter?

Posted Image


Yes sir.  I should get a few new, less dusty picks next weekend hopefully...

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#5 Mister Phes

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Posted 10 November 2006 - 03:37 PM

I don't think the blue and white colour scheme is bad, in fact I think it works quite well for the hull but I don't think it works with the red or the tan in sails.  You'd probably be better off creating custom sails once you've built most of the ship.

However, the only objection I have to the blue and white hull is its already been done and imitated several times now.  I.e. Armada Flagship and I've seen MOCs from Dreamweab, Xwingyoda and someone else doing an "alternate" Armada Flagship.  Also there was a user called Sean who created a ship with a blue and white hull.

#6 jamtf

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Posted 10 November 2006 - 06:50 PM

I agree. The hull color ain't that bad but the sails do not fit. Either one should use the Armada Flagship sails or those from the Caribbean Clipper and change the crew into Spanish Armada or blue Imperial soldiers. Or make new sails that fit. Paperwhite for instance.
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#7 Bonaparte

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Posted 10 November 2006 - 07:41 PM

I like this ship. It's not yet perfect, but could be improved a lot with some minor changes.
What I like is the color scheme, its size, the big amount of guns, its crew.
I agree that it would be better to use different sails, maybe with a custom made drawing printed on the sails, that match with the ships color scheme.
What I can't see from this pictures is the inside of the ship. This is an important issue when I make a MOC. I like it to be "playable". So every part of the ship/MOC should be easy accessible (e.g. via removable panels).
Can you give some feedback (or better, pictures) on this Mr. ZCerberus?
I like very much the "world" you are creating with lego. Hope to see some more of your work in the future.

About the "dust problem": I use a air-compressor and toothbrush to undust my lego. Not a nice job :-)

View PostMister Phes, on Nov 10 2006, 04:37 PM, said:

However, the only objection I have to the blue and white hull is its already been done and imitated several times now.  I.e. Armada Flagship and I've seen MOCs from Dreamweab, Xwingyoda and someone else doing an "alternate" Armada Flagship.  Also there was a user called Sean who created a ship with a blue and white hull.
I don't share this view Lord Admiral Phes.
We are all imitating and improving what we imitated.

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#8 ZCerberus

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Posted 10 November 2006 - 11:34 PM

View PostMister Phes, on Nov 10 2006, 09:37 AM, said:

I don't think the blue and white colour scheme is bad, in fact I think it works quite well for the hull but I don't think it works with the red or the tan in sails.  You'd probably be better off creating custom sails once you've built most of the ship.

However, the only objection I have to the blue and white hull is its already been done and imitated several times now.  I.e. Armada Flagship and I've seen MOCs from Dreamweab, Xwingyoda and someone else doing an "alternate" Armada Flagship.  Also there was a user called Sean who created a ship with a blue and white hull.


Well I made the sails BEFORE I changed the hull over to white and blue.  After I changed the hulls, due mostly to the practical consideration listed before, then I changed some other parts over to the white, like the whole center section.  With the exception of the hull color, the scheme is pretty standard Lego Imperial Guard

I never saw anyone else's ships.  There were only two options for center hull sections in that size are white or brown.  It was easier at that time to get white, so I rolled with it.  I would also point out that the Imperial Armada's scheme was actually white and blue with green and red accents.  The Imperial Guard used black, with blue and yellow highlights, and though they had no red in their ships, they used the same sails I am using.  The big difference I think is in the amount of white used.  I guess it is mostly an unfortunate side effect of the hulls I had to use.  With the white hulls I had to increase the white and blue use.  I stayed away from the green though, and still tried to use some black.

I hesitate to change the sails because the sails on my other ships match the ones on the Arbiter... though some of the Arbiter's sails are Lego direct, you will notice 3 of the ones on the arbiter (and ALL of the ones on the other ships) are custom made.

I thought about using the larger red ones but hulls are pricey on Bricklink, and I would need to get rid of almost all of the white on the ship.

Maybe there are a few different alternatives.  I could try to incorporate some Red into the design, or use essential the same background design on the sails, but maybe make the sails all white and make the stripes behind the cannons blue.  We'll see.





View Postbonaparte, on Nov 10 2006, 01:41 PM, said:

I like this ship. It's not yet perfect, but could be improved a lot with some minor changes.
What I like is the color scheme, its size, the big amount of guns, its crew.
I agree that it would be better to use different sails, maybe with a custom made drawing printed on the sails, that match with the ships color scheme.
What I can't see from this pictures is the inside of the ship. This is an important issue when I make a MOC. I like it to be "playable". So every part of the ship/MOC should be easy accessible (e.g. via removable panels).
Can you give some feedback (or better, pictures) on this Mr. ZCerberus?
I like very much the "world" you are creating with lego. Hope to see some more of your work in the future.

About the "dust problem": I use a air-compressor and toothbrush to undust my lego. Not a nice job :-)
I don't share this view Lord Admiral Phes.
We are all imitating and improving what we imitated.


I am very aware of the dust.  My dad is a dentist, so I have all kinds of access to tooth brushes, and completely plan to 'undust' them before the next round of pictures.  

I do not live near the Lego mocs themselves, I am in school about 180 miles from where the mocs sit.  Hence the reason for the MLCAD on the harbor.  That is also why I rushed taking the pictures of both the harbor and the ships and they aren't the greatest of quality.  I have mentioned my awareness of the dust several times, and it won't be a problem next time I take photos.

The ship itself has interiors but they currently aren't overly accessible.  That is in stark contrast to the Harbor which has magnets and technic pins holding on roofs and various levels.

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#9 El Bucanero

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Posted 11 November 2006 - 11:41 AM

Hello beauty!
That's a cool ship, according to the high stern castle, I asume it is a galleon??
I would love to see pictures of the stern....

#10 Mister Phes

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Posted 11 November 2006 - 08:40 PM

View PostZCerberus, on Nov 11 2006, 10:34 AM, said:

I hesitate to change the sails because the sails on my other ships match the ones on the Arbiter... though some of the Arbiter's sails are Lego direct, you will notice 3 of the ones on the arbiter (and ALL of the ones on the other ships) are custom made.

What do you mean by "Lego direct"?  All the sails on the Arbiter look like they're from Imperial Flagship sets.  Which ones are the custom sails?



View PostZCerberus, on Nov 11 2006, 10:34 AM, said:

I could try to incorporate some Red into the design, or use essential the same background design on the sails, but maybe make the sails all white and make the stripes behind the cannons blue.  We'll see.

It would probably be easier to change the sails to match the ship, rather than modified the ship to match the sails.  Unless you're really keen on doing some rebuilds.

#11 ZCerberus

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Posted 11 November 2006 - 08:56 PM

View PostMister Phes, on Nov 11 2006, 02:40 PM, said:

What do you mean by "Lego direct"?  All the sails on the Arbiter look like they're from Imperial Flagship sets.  Which ones are the custom sails?

By Lego direct, I mean they are from an actual Lego set.

In terms of the customs...
On both the masts with 2 sails on them, the lower sails are custom made.  The second of the two sails at the very front of the ship.  You will notice it is a little different in color.

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#12 Mister Phes

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Posted 11 November 2006 - 09:04 PM

Of course!  What a numskull I am!  The Imperial Flagship never came with sails like that!

Ok, so my next question is, could you briefly tell us how you made those sails?

#13 Bonaparte

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Posted 11 November 2006 - 09:10 PM

View PostMister Phes, on Nov 11 2006, 10:04 PM, said:

Of course!  What a numskull I am!  The Imperial Flagship never came with sails like that!

Ok, so my next question is, could you briefly tell us how you made those sails?
I even didn't notice these sails are not original. Good color match.
Did you print the yellowish part of the sails or did you find paper that had this color.

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#14 El Bucanero

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Posted 11 November 2006 - 10:38 PM

View PostMister Phes, on Nov 11 2006, 10:04 PM, said:

Of course!  What a numskull I am!  The Imperial Flagship never came with sails like that!

Ok, so my next question is, could you briefly tell us how you made those sails?
So I was right!(I didn't say anything, I was just asuming) I noticed that they looked strange and I thought I never saw them before, but since the look so real, I thought it was normal  *wacko* .

#15 Mister Phes

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Posted 12 November 2006 - 03:37 PM

You were just assuming I was a numskull Mr Tiber? :-D

#16 Evil Willy

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Posted 12 November 2006 - 06:08 PM

Ahh yes this ship is absolutley beautiful, I saw it in your birckshelf earlier and fell in love. So yes, I very very much like. That color scheme is so perfect way to keep it up well. AWSOME ship!

#17 El Bucanero

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Posted 12 November 2006 - 06:23 PM

View PostMister Phes, on Nov 12 2006, 04:37 PM, said:

You were just assuming I was a numskull Mr Tiber? :-D
Noooo I was asuming they weren't made in a LEGO factory :-P

#18 ZCerberus

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Posted 12 November 2006 - 08:28 PM

The sails...

Well it has been a while... I believe they are made of a material called Burlap.  The material was white so I dyed them.  I am not sure what color the dye was.  I considered using coffee, but I do believe I used an actual dye.  

I scanned the I Imperial guard logo onto a computer and converted it to black and white.
I resized it to fit with the sail size (which is probably the same size as the lower sails on all the Pirate ships) and printed it onto a tee-shirt iron-on transfer.  I then ironed on the logo and painted over it with the logo.  

I believe I used that tee-shirt paint that comes in the squeeze bottles, my mom was a big arts and crafts kind of person so she had some I could use.  It worked just fine.  I think that the detailing on the crown was too hard to do with paint, so it might be done with a thin black marker.  If I recall, sharpies tend to bleed a little bit, so I used some other marker with a harder, smaller point.

After the paint dried, I decided I needed to stiffen up the sails a little bit so they didnít flop around.  The Lego ones are fairly rigid, so I used a mixture of Elmerís (white craft glue) and water and painted the mixture over the sails.  I let them dry for a bit, and then pressed them in a large book over night to make sure they didnít dry with any creases in them.

I then cut the holes with a scissors and called it a day.

I also did a couple of sails on my other Imperial with the same method but I only used markers to color the sails.  Two causations, 1) Sharpies bleed a bit, and 2, if they get wet, they will smear.  The sails on the "Covenant" are all custom and are made exclusively with markers, as are the ones on my other ships that don't have any folders on Bricklink, yet.  

Look here at the ones made with marker...

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Most of the Imperial sails you wil see here are custom.  You will notice the ones here are made with Marker instead of paint.  They bled a little and the colors, other than black, tend to fade if exposed to sunlight for long periods of time.  They look pretty good from a distance, but haven't held up as well as the painted ones on the Arbiter

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#19 Mister Phes

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Posted 12 November 2006 - 08:59 PM

Evil Willy, are you taking notes here?  Mr ZCerberus has provided some useful information that could be added to the making sails tutorial.

#20 ZCerberus

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Posted 12 November 2006 - 10:15 PM

View PostMister Phes, on Nov 12 2006, 02:59 PM, said:

Evil Willy, are you taking notes here?  Mr ZCerberus has provided some useful information that could be added to the making sails tutorial.


Okay... but then you would have to promote me ;)

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#21 Mister Phes

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Posted 13 November 2006 - 08:33 PM

Ok you can be Captain ZCerberus then!  :-D

But when will you have more progress reports on the Arbiter?

#22 ZCerberus

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Posted 13 November 2006 - 11:31 PM

View PostMister Phes, on Nov 13 2006, 02:33 PM, said:

Ok you can be Captain ZCerberus then!  :-D

But when will you have more progress reports on the Arbiter?

Sweet!

I will retake the pictures and post November 20... 20/11 for all you non US peeps out there.  I might retool it a bit too- but I will get some shots of some of the detailing, one of two without the sails, and a few of the interior.

It is also the target date to build the harbor out of bricks!

I will also take some pictures of the other Imperial ships.  The Covenant, The Sienna, The Fortune and The Adventure.  The Fortune and Adventure are very similar single cannon ships.  The Sienna is a two cannon cross between the Imperial Flagship and the Caribbean Clipper, and the Covenant is sort of the Imperial version of the Skull's Eye Schooner (sort of indeed)

I will also try to remember to snap of few shots of the various sales, and comparisons between the Lego ones, the Painted ones and the ones that were designed with marker.

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#23 Tordenskjold

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Posted 14 November 2006 - 10:27 PM

Nice ship .  i like the color and the huge number of guns.and the sails are very good i think.  *y*
it look a kind of old style to me with the high forecastle, do you have any timeperiod of it?   but i can really see this as a flagship, a bit old but this is would be a ship of the line as i see it. and ill guess a suitable ship for a commander to use as flagship.
If i was to mentioned one thing i didnt think look very good, it had to  be the cannons.   as i think they are to close. no chance any gun crew can operate around them. but thats only a small thing.  lego isnt quite natural when it comes to space and sizes.
a good ship  :-)

#24 Norrington

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Posted 15 November 2006 - 12:47 AM

View PostZCerberus, on Nov 10 2006, 08:29 AM, said:

Plus, after I changed the hulls over to white, I had enough brown ones left over to make my second ship, the Covenant.

i see youy like halo and halo2..... lol! the arbiter and the covenant.... are they going to be sister ships?
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#25 ZCerberus

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Posted 16 November 2006 - 12:04 AM

View PostTordenskjold, on Nov 14 2006, 04:27 PM, said:

Nice ship .  i like the color and the huge number of guns.and the sails are very good i think.  *y*
it look a kind of old style to me with the high forecastle, do you have any timeperiod of it?


... time period of.... Lego Pirate Ships...

Seriously, it isn't designed after any other ship or type of ship.  It is just from my brain.  It doesn't have the same design elements as any other type of ship.  The cabin, for example, isn't flat in the back with lots of windows, instead it extends off the ship.  So no period really!

View PostNorrington, on Nov 14 2006, 06:47 PM, said:

i see you like halo and halo2..... lol! the arbiter and the covenant.... are they going to be sister ships?

hah!  I never even thought of that.  I named the Flagship 'The Arbiter' because that is a powerful, yet just judge, and that was the kind of the feeling I wanted her to summon.

The 'Covenant' was originally named 'The Dauntless' but there are too many ships with that name.  I needed to rename it, and 'Covenant' just came to mind.  I have played Halo and Halo 2 though, so I get the references and why one might think that... perhaps I will name my next ship 'Master Chief' or 'Flood' or 'Spartan'!

They aren't sister ships.  they are the two largest Imperial ships I have, but they do not look alike or anything.

I am considering retooling the Arbiter though.  My thought is to Widen the deck on top, remove the top cannons, move boats onto the deck, pull the middle mast forward and make the rear cabin more accessible.  We'll have to see how that pans out, but that is an idea.  I would also rework and redecorate the railings on the decks etc.    But that is just a thought.

EDIT: Okay, so instead of retooling the Arbiter, I made a completely new ship.  It still needs some design changes, but here is the link to what ended up happening... Arbiter II

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