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faulty pump?


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#1 Zaiocrit

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 08:37 AM

Hi !
I realized this PF compressor found on YouTube, that allows, with only one motor, to obtain the two movements of a pneumatic piston ... moreover it is very compact

problem: very often (not always) the pump operates only in one direction of rotation and not the other! I tried with two pumps (I only have two) and the result is the same  :cry_sad:

Malfunctioning pumps?  :hmpf_bad:
Note: the switch is working properly

thanks

Edited by Zaiocrit, 11 April 2012 - 08:38 AM.


#2 jorgeopesi

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 08:50 AM

The original Sariel design is more compact I think and it works perfect.
Bu purist my friend.

#3 Lipko

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 09:46 AM

Maybe I misunderstand the problem, but the pump doesn't care about the direction of the rotation, since it operates with linear motion, and only produces pressure if it is pushed. The rotation direction doesn't matter.

The whole assembly can malfunction in many ways.
*Do those knobs (dark grey rotating things) operate the same way as seen on the video?
*Are the pneumatic connections tight and secured?
*Does the piston work in both ways? (try with a simpler assembly)
*What does "the switch is working properly" mean? Does it work "standalone" or does it work in the assembly as seen on the video?

#4 Zaiocrit

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 10:19 AM

View PostLipko, on 11 April 2012 - 09:46 AM, said:

Maybe I misunderstand the problem, but the pump doesn't care about the direction of the rotation, since it operates with linear motion, and only produces pressure if it is pushed. The rotation direction doesn't matter.

The whole assembly can malfunction in many ways.
*Do those knobs (dark grey rotating things) operate the same way as seen on the video?
*Are the pneumatic connections tight and secured?
*Does the piston work in both ways? (try with a simpler assembly)
*What does "the switch is working properly" mean? Does it work "standalone" or does it work in the assembly as seen on the video?

I know! is absurd! ... but is so!  :cry_sad:

1 - I used a similar solution but it works the same way. I have tried to manually move the lever and the problem remains
if I use the pump manually ... it works!  *huh*
2 - Yes
3 - I use the pump manually and it works!
4 - during operation with the mouth I blown directly into the central tube, and the air passes in both positions

#5 Zaiocrit

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 10:45 AM

View Postjorgeopesi, on 11 April 2012 - 08:50 AM, said:

The original Sariel design is more compact I think and it works perfect.

Are you referring to this?
Posted Image

in this case is too bulky for me, that of the video proposed by me is more compact

I could try to change it but I think my problem is in the pumps ... and the problem would arise even

Edited by Zaiocrit, 11 April 2012 - 10:48 AM.


#6 Lipko

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 11:00 AM

Post video.

#7 Zaiocrit

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 11:07 AM

View PostLipko, on 11 April 2012 - 11:00 AM, said:

Post video.

when I return home this evening I try to do a little video and i post it
But first I must finish my model for the contest ... and find a satisfactory solution to this problem  :sceptic:

#8 Lipko

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 11:49 AM

View PostZaiocrit, on 11 April 2012 - 11:07 AM, said:

when I return home this evening I try to do a little video and i post it
But first I must finish my model for the contest ... and find a satisfactory solution to this problem  :sceptic:
Hmm. Without videos or images or a very precise description of the problem and the mechanism, it will be hard to tell anything. The mechanism seems too simple to go wrong if its components work.

I can think of a solution that simplifies the thing: just switch the battery box and the pneumatic switch simultaneously with some simple linkage. Or maybe use the technic electric switch, it should be fairly easy to connect the lever of the pneumatic switch with the lever of the electric switch.


(BTW, although the solution posted in the previous posts is clever, I think it's a bit too clever...)

Edited by Lipko, 11 April 2012 - 11:51 AM.


#9 Zaiocrit

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 12:07 PM

View PostLipko, on 11 April 2012 - 11:49 AM, said:

Hmm. Without videos or images or a very precise description of the problem and the mechanism, it will be hard to tell anything. The mechanism seems too simple to go wrong if its components work.

I can think of a solution that simplifies the thing: just switch the battery box and the pneumatic switch simultaneously with some simple linkage. Or maybe use the technic electric switch, it should be fairly easy to connect the lever of the pneumatic switch with the lever of the electric switch.


(BTW, although the solution posted in the previous posts is clever, I think it's a bit too clever...)

first of all thank you for your attention!  :sweet:

I want to control the pump and the entire mechanism by IR remote control, so I have ruled out the mechanical connection to the battery box

Keep in mind that if I unplug the pump and use it manually, the system works! if I turn the motor in one direction the piston moves down, I turn the engine in reverse and the piston drops ... all while using the pump manually!

I hope that my google-English is understandable !  :laugh:

#10 Lipko

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 12:09 PM

View PostLipko, on 11 April 2012 - 11:49 AM, said:

Hmm. Without videos or images or a very precise description of the problem and the mechanism, it will be hard to tell anything. The mechanism seems too simple to go wrong if its components work.

I can think of a solution that simplifies the thing: just switch the battery box and the pneumatic switch simultaneously with some simple linkage. Or maybe use the technic electric switch, it should be fairly easy to connect the lever of the pneumatic switch with the lever of the electric switch.


(BTW, although the solution posted in the previous posts is clever, I think it's a bit too clever...)


A schematic picture, I hope it's clear.... I don't have the components and the time to build it, but I think this should be possible and quick to build

Posted Image

View PostZaiocrit, on 11 April 2012 - 12:07 PM, said:

first of all thank you for your attention!  :sweet:

I want to control the pump and the entire mechanism by IR remote control, so I have ruled out the mechanical connection to the battery box

Keep in mind that if I unplug the pump and use it manually, the system works! if I turn the motor in one direction the piston moves down, I turn the engine in reverse and the piston drops ... all while using the pump manually!
Ahaaa



How about using the white 24 teeth gear with clutch? The motor drives the pump and the white gear, the white gear operates the pneumatic switch.

My last idea, I still have no idea what could be the problem with your solution.

Edited by Lipko, 11 April 2012 - 12:14 PM.


#11 Zaiocrit

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 12:10 PM

View PostLipko, on 11 April 2012 - 12:07 PM, said:

A schematic picture, I hope it's clear.... I don't have the components and the time to build it, but I think this should be possible and quick to build

Posted Image

you're an artist! :laugh:

However, it is clear

read my previous post

#12 Zaiocrit

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 10:29 AM

View PostLipko, on 11 April 2012 - 11:49 AM, said:

Hmm. Without videos or images or a very precise description of the problem and the mechanism, it will be hard to tell anything. The mechanism seems too simple to go wrong if its components work.

I can think of a solution that simplifies the thing: just switch the battery box and the pneumatic switch simultaneously with some simple linkage. Or maybe use the technic electric switch, it should be fairly easy to connect the lever of the pneumatic switch with the lever of the electric switch.


(BTW, although the solution posted in the previous posts is clever, I think it's a bit too clever...)
I have solved the problem by placing the pump in this way:

Posted Image


I changed the pump position (the position previously was red) connecting it to the structure of my ship

I am convinced that the pump is not working well
basically, if the piston performs the maximum range, the pump has problems, but if the race is slightly reduced ... it works!

When the contest is over, I remove everything and do a video of one compressor




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