73 replies to this topic

[soccerkid6]

Sounds good to me  

[Ecclesiastes]

I Scream Clone, on 12 April 2012 - 10:25 PM, said:

Yes, that may be true, but the guild leaders and EB aren't a bottomless pit of prize support. Think Tags, titles etc rather than just LEGO prizes  

Da Maximus, we are working on special Tags at the moment for great contributors.

Sounds interesting indeed. But will there be tags for GoH as whole or tags for like Mitgardia?

[Blaze]

I would love to see tags for the guilds in specific or just one for GoH! Although I will have to step up my game a bit, but that would be a extra motivator for sure.

Edited by Blaze, 13 April 2012 - 02:50 PM.

[turtleman2020]

Im in Nocturnus. I haven't posted anything because my builds are horrible compared to all the others, but my enttry for challenge 3 will be good. If GOH was applied to the pirate theme it could have the government ( organized navymen) regular pirates and half fish pirates such as the atlantis monsters, but pirates rather than warriors.

[Darkdragon]

Ecclesiastes, on 13 April 2012 - 12:37 PM, said:

Sounds interesting indeed. But will there be tags for GoH as whole or tags for like Mitgardia?

The problem I see with this is that people would join GoH just to get a tag, never contributing. Even if it was only for people who post some moc, I fear that some people might throw a few grey bricks on a baseplate and a stick a minifig and some flags on it and call it good, expecting a tag with little effort.

[kabel]

Hey there,
I'm an active builder of Mitgardia and have totally shifted my LEGO interests from Pirates to Castle since the introduction of GoH. This has also helped my personal building skills considerably I guess.
What I like most is this whole community feeling this project has to it, but it seems some of it has eased off a little. At least within the Mitgardia guild which had a really great start and now seems to be lagging behind.
On the other hand, the inter-guild GoH sense of community has increased, especially the members of the Kaliphlin have brought an inviting spirit to this corner of the EB forum. Thank you for that!
What I'm missing is the more constructive side of criticism. It's really uplifting to be told that a build looks nice and all. On the other hand though, to be told what needs to be improved really helps a good deal more as I have just experiences with my second Valholl moc. So lets all try to be more constructive in this sense.
As for the GoH tags, great idea! What I would like to know are the criteria though. There are so many tags out here, where I frankly don't know what they were awarded for. So transparency regarding the awarding criteria would be nice.
Having said all this, I generally think that this whole project is really amazing and it has brought quite a bit of life to the history forum. So lets keep for a while longer, it's worth it!!

[Sirens-of-Titan]

darkdragon, on 14 April 2012 - 05:42 PM, said:

The problem I see with this is that people would join GoH just to get a tag, never contributing. Even if it was only for people who post some moc, I fear that some people might throw a few grey bricks on a baseplate and a stick a minifig and some flags on it and call it good, expecting a tag with little effort.

I understand your concern, but we will judge if someone truly deserves one based on contribution. We don't operate by the model of "if you meet minimal criteria A you get tag" it's more of a "if we feel you've been around posting, giving ideas, building and helping members you deserve a tag." It's basically a reward for being part of this unique community!  

[Angeli]

Derfel Cadarn, on 11 April 2012 - 12:09 PM, said:

It seems to me that maybe a good way to solve this is to maybe have catagories, small, medium and large, but still have the same sort of prize for each one to make it fair, otherwise people might not be happy because they havn't got enough bricks to enter the large catagory and win a bigger prize. So maybe thats the way to go, different size catagories but all with an equal prize.

I do not agree. If I am not happy because you use so much plant life inside your moc and you win, and I have only a couple of plant-bricks, does that mean that we will make prizes for "green mocs" and "red mocs"? Also, you use a lot of round plates, and I have only a handful which are not trans. So, we will have "round mocs" and "square mocs" prizes, also "green round" and "green square", "red round" and "red square" - for people who have plant life but do not have round plates... Then, you use a lot of trans for water. So, we will have the same prizes for "trans water" and second category "plain blue water". So no w we have "green round trans mocs"; " green square trans mocs" etc... And each category will have a justice set as a prize ;) And you can sell you car to sponsor those 256 prizes for 256 mocs. And when you bought everything, someone will come and say "I do not have ANY baseplates, so we should have one prize for "non baseplate mocs"

total democracy is good for important matters, but not for micromanaging. People should build with bricks they have. I do not have PaB or bricklink (no paypal in my country) - what that means, only bricks you can use in building are those that you got from regular sets, and you can not use bricks you bought on bl or PaB? and you must prove that you have sets for bricks you use, using pictures of boxes or bills :) :) :)

If someone has no blue bricks, and next challenge is "Lake" - he should use his imagination, and make a lake in night, black, or lake during winter, in white.

We are making an army for next challenge, and you have only 5 minifigs? Build golems from bricks, or army of brick build animals.

The pint is to use imagination, and not impede others because someone thinks that that other will win using something that he do not have. For example, then challenge 2 must be done again, I have only few rare colors, and Misty island from lisqr is mainly in them, and it is not fair, no wonder that he won - but in reality, he did not won because of the color, but of originality, atmosphere and impact. Same goes for the size.

When organizations make that rule (max size 32x32) that is only because they are not strong enough to stand up for rightness and justice, because they are afraid that less people will apply if that rule is not there. Tomorrow, someone will say "Women are more artistic then men, and they can not compete in these challenges because they will surely win!"

There is not A SINGLE ONE valid and/or moral reason for 32x32 rule (except when that is the sole point of the challenge, like 32x32 challenge on Classic-Castle). It is a plain discrimination and "tying hands" of a better combatant. The prizes are never that great that we HAVE to win, more less all of them we can buy by ourselves; The respect, admiration and recognitions is the greatest reword that we get in these challenges plus endless joy of building and thinking of new ways to combine bricks :)

--------

Suma sumarum: If any of the guild leaders impose that silly 32x32 or something x something rule again, the Drow will place a huge bounty on their head, and we will also put a few of the curses ourselves, for hair loss, problems with girls and/or total polymorfation into a squirrel. The smallest one.

:)

[Sirens-of-Titan]

@ Angeli:

Mr Drow you contradict yourself by first stating that you lack enough specific bricks to be competitive, and then saying that we are somehow tying your competitive hands down with rules. The reason to have various size categories is precisely because we want to give equal opportunity to all builders to build as well as they can within their collection size and budget. Great MOC's come in all shapes and sizes, and we should recognize that instead of only rewarding gargantuan builds. I think the community building and it's rules have been on par with most people's expectations, and it seems the smallest category (Watchtower) was the most popular to date by our survey, so smaller footprints are not a detriment to MOC's.

As far as prizes are concerned, perhaps you don't see them as "that great" but they are paid for by EB and your Guild Leaders, who are not millionaires. We've spent hundreds of dollars each on prizes and the custom figures we are getting are actually unique one-offs that you cannot buy elsewhere. Reserve judgement for when you win one, and hold it in your hands. I expect a talented minifigure builder like yourslef to appreciate that.  

[Angeli]

Sirens-Of-Titan, on 15 April 2012 - 03:11 PM, said:

@ Angeli: ...

No no no, I was being sarcastic (damn:)

I made an example how far someone could go if we allowed that kind of freedom :)

The normal things I've said are "me"; the strange, funny or embarrassing are me being sarcastic, making example how it could sound :)

In nutshell: if allowed, there will be a 1000 requests about the rules, and there will always be someone that has to add 1001 rule :) Citing The Number One from Alan Ford: "Any fool can cook a great diner for 20 with 2000$. Only a real chef can do it with 18 cents" :)

And about prizes, they ARE great, but even greater are the incorporeal prizes I've listed, and they should be the aim (respect, admiration, recognitions, fun while building etc). There could be nothing else by ultimate admiration about few guys who are sponsoring prizes themselves :)

In nutshell: your prizes are perfect, but they should not be the driving force for building to other people, that is what I wanted to say :)

Btw, I think the first challenge was the most popular because it was the first (the activity on Historica subforum was bigger then)

You misheard the tone of my post, I am totally with you, guild leaders, love everything about Historica and would not change a thing (except if someone thinks of something new to add to the games:);

And about the bounties, you can not blame a Drow, it is our nature :)

[rogueang]

I agree with both Sirens and Angeli,

I think the prizes are incredible (I mean you can win a joust?  Awesome! , and I can't WAIT to see these custom figs) and the Guild leaders/EB have been enormously generous with the purchasing of said prizes out of their own pockets. (not to mention the prizes that non-GLs have given out for contests those individuals sponsored.)  And I think that a big incentive for a lot of builders in the guild IS the chance at winning prizes.

I also agree with Angeli that a lot of us here can buy a $50, $100 or $200 set if we really want it, and when you consider the amount of time that is put in to some of these MOCs, as well as the Bricklink orders that some of us place (I spent over $150 on Challenge 2 alone   ) it's not about the prizes for some of us.  It is more about the "respect, admiration, recognition and fun while building, etc." exactly as Angeli said.

In terms of contest constraints, I think that there can be arguments for and against but in the end we're still going to get great builds from members either way.

[Balthasar]

I do agree with angeli that the justification for the 32x32 rule is wrong.

The justification given is that no-size limit is unfair to contestants with small collection. That not right if the price is for the best builder. It's like organising a soccer-tournament with a price for the best soccer-team and then reducing the playing field because using the normal playing field would be unfair to normal people, since they don't have the strenght/fitness of barcelona players and they wouldn't have a chance to win. Everybody knows that Barcelona is the best soccer team, so it shouldn't be felt as unfair if they win the price.

The justification for the 32x32 shouldn't be that it's "more fair" to people with small collections. The justification given for the rule should be: that it makes more people participate in the contest. The increased participation can be for various reasons.. The price goes to the person who builds best on 32x32, which doesn't necessarily mean that person is the best builder in general :)  


If you also want a contest for the best builder, no size limit would be in order. People specialed in building big can build big, people specialised in building small can build small. Various handicaps for people with plenty of money/time/training/facilities(various PAB's closeby) are not in order.
Also, dedication in both finance and time could deserves somewhat apriciation in my opinion.

Edited by Balthasar, 15 April 2012 - 09:00 PM.

[Sirens-of-Titan]

Very good points brought up by all.   My initial thinking was that size restrictions are more fair not because of people's varying degree of part availability, but because of judgement at the end of the contest. Let's say I was to judge entrees from Avalonia, and I was presented with one that fits 32X32 and another that fits on 64X64, both of comparable level of detail and skill. What then determines who has the better build? Should size matter?

1) If you say no, disregard the size, then the builder who spent more time/parts gets hurt because the grandiose nature of his design is not accounted for.

2) If you say yes, size matters, then the builder who built the smaller MOC is hurt because although his detail, ideas and architecture are on point with the other builder, the fact that it's smaller automatically hurts him.

That's the reason size restrictions are being discussed to begin with. Now, as some have said, if you don't care about the prizes you may build bigger or smaller just to satisfy your artistic vision. That is alright by us, but part of what separates a challenge from a free build is that there are restrictions and limitations. The challenges are artistic and innovative tasks, making members come out of their comfort zones of building, and challenging them to do something they would not ordinarily do in a MOC.     

Keep up the discussion and ideas guys! This is very helpful for us!  

[Basiliscus]

Interesting discussion going on. For me, I am 50/50 on size limitations - I do agree that size limitation is likely to be inversely proportional to contributions, however, like Angeli and rogueang (and many others...) I have spent a lot of time, money and effort on my challenge entries. Therefore, I wouldn't want this to count against me.

One thing I would say is - I do agree with the consensus that respect and notoriety are more important than prizes. For me, what I want out of GoH is to be better known as a builder. So things like having good MOCs displayed on the EB frontpage, comments etc are more important than prizes.

Although who wouldn't want to win a joust set!  

[Savage Sebstian]

Hello I'm currently not in a guild.
I'm a non-active builder, but I love reading up on Eurobricks, Flickr, and Brothers-Brick for the latest updates.
I've been following GoH ever since it's started! I'm impressed! If I could change one thing, I would change the Organization of the entire project. If you see Heroica RPG's format, they are much more organized. It would be cool to have this kind of project as a pirate themed one, but I'm not complaining! I don't have many legos at the moment and I usually spend free time on the computer or gaming...Any advice that'll get me in the mood to build+How to use bricklink effectively?
Thanks and I hope GoH lasts a long time

[I Scream Clone]

Savage Sebstian, on 16 April 2012 - 03:55 AM, said:

Any advice that'll get me in the mood to build+How to use bricklink effectively?
Thanks and I hope GoH lasts a long time

Well inspiration can strike at any time, as can the mood to keep building.

As far as utilising Bricklink, everyone has a preferred way of doing this, I myself first look for a handful of useful parts and search first the catalog number, then choose the colour, then set for highest quantity. This can also be done through the price guide I think  
i find a store that has a few of the bulk parts i need, as multiple postage from different shops will outweigh saving a dollar from the cheaper shop, and then its time to fill the order with other interesting/cheap parts from the same shop. The US builders may be able to afford multiple smaller orders as postage within US is going to be cheaper.

[Kayne]

Another useful feature on Bricklink is the wanted list and email notifications to go along with it.  For instance, I am currently bulking up on Trans-Dark Blue 1x2 Tiles.  In my wanted list, I set that item as being wanted, then I entered that it should be in US only(to save postage!).  Then I put in a minimum quantity of 50, and a price of $0.10.  This can take a while, but if you are patient, you will get some good finds.  Basically, whenever a store posts that item in that quantity and at that price, I get an email letting me know where it is at, and I can order them if I am so inclined.  I have used this to bulk up on Light Bley parts, and it worked great.

[NiceMarmot]

Regarding size limitations in the challenges -- I have mixed feelings about this.  I don't want to disadvantage those who have limited funds and/or collections by making all challenges unlimited, but I don't want to unnecessarily restrict those who build on a huge scale (it's darn cool when it works).  It seems that sometimes a size restriction can really provide an interesting twist to a contest however, and challenge people to create in a small space. Some huge builders may find it a new challenge to have to fit their story into 32x32 or 16x16 -- sort of like an epic poet taking part in a limerick or haiku contest.  It's no different than telling people they must build a watchtower, or build all in blue, or whatever.  So my take on this is: let's have some unlimited contests, where people can really strut their stuff, and let's have some contests with size limitations, to force people to be creative within certain parameters.

[Derfel Cadarn]

Sounds good, the unlimited size suits the current challenge, but future challenge will have different size limitations depending on what the challenge is. The watchtower challenge suited 32x32 as that's really all you need to build a good watch tower, but if we asked you all to build a castle stronghold we would probably give a bigger limitation.  However, we could always say a minimum of 32x32 and maximum of 48x48, that would allow some people to expand a bit. Plus, you can always build upward!

[Savage Sebstian]

Thanks for the advice! Summer is coming up real fast and I'll have more than enough time to build.

[Tazmaniac]

As far as size goes I rarely go above 32x32 as it suits my limited collection, it's a plenty big space if you utilise it properly.

[Legonardo]

I think that size does matter, me being a person of limited parts.
the tower challenge was great. in the embassy I struggled to fill the 48 x 48 base.

[ZCerberus]

Consider that Rolli won challenge 2 for Avalonia and his build wasn't anywhere near 48 x 48!  It is a size limit, not a requirement.

[Cij Daoke]

Hi to all GoH inhabitants! I am Nocturnian and we're awesome!

I am active member, been away for a month but still trying to get into Round III with the time bonus we got.

The thing I like the most in GoH is getting in touch with this great group of fantastic builders, and not just hanging around with them but helpin each other's building evolution in a very friendly way.
I really like the themes and guilds, but I didn't really like challenge II - I think that we didn't quite taimed the properties of each guild, and we we're asked to build something that had to account with other Guild's features, it came out a bit confusing to me.
I really don't like being involved in big builds, I already have a 'big build' schedule for year for my Lug's annual expo, and I think the challenges should be focused on smaller tasks that involves more creativity and building fun than supersized creations, I think that's something that should be avoided. Until now, I don't really think that was asked, I am just saying that it shouldn't. I reall think that's nice if you can do big, but that shouldn't be a rule.
Also, something that stills bothers me is that the Guilds look much alike in some aspects.

I think that, for Round IV, Guild Rivalry should finally be lighten up, not exactly for direct contac at first, but we should already get the enemy invasion feelling between the Guilds, GOH started with it , but tha, that was lift from the game.