37 replies to this topic

[Commodore Hornbricker]

Biggie Cam, on 04 April 2012 - 12:15 AM, said:

But there is always someone who acts a fool.

That was directed at me wasn't it.

[Duck]

Horry, on 03 April 2012 - 09:05 AM, said:

(1) There are really really different opinions and tastes around here. What style to choose? What factions? how many? For example: Duck would like to have the classic pirates style, I'd like to make it much more realistic - How do we compromise

Well, I have nothing against it being realistic, if someone has the time and the bricks to put into making an ultra realistic frigate for example then all speed ahead! I think that's up to the people contributing to this as to what style as an individual they would go for - comical/cartoony or realistic.

I certainly think that factions should definitively be lego-based and not real nations such as Britain and France however - thats more my thoughts on the line of realism.  

Edited by Duck, 04 April 2012 - 08:36 PM.

[Phred]

Relating to the GoH as best I could, the map of the Pirate "Guilds" could look more like the Caribbean than a large continent with each faction having at least one large island (similar to Hispaniola, Jamaica, Cuba) and many small islands.
People can build land MOCs or ships.
Following suit with GoH, each portion of the "Caribbean" could have completely different types of islands and seas.  There could be cold, deep seas with very rocky islands; and warm, shallow seas with lots of beaches.
Each faction could have its own group of privateers (maybe even pirates).
Each faction could be based off of actual countries, but include our own ideas.  I don't think we should worry too much about the level of realism, but find a way to include everyone.  POTC has a lot of magical elements while Master and Commander is very realistic.  It could be interesting if both of these worlds met.

[Yawgmoth]

I always thought of it as a large, more complicate but also more entertaining, role playing game..which  has rules, maps, stats, lots of background histories, ... I still cant think of how we could addapt something that a group of people play interacting between each other in real life, to a larger group, in a forum, but if we can create something like that, then it might be even better than GoH...without any prizes but only for the joy be part of it, 'coz it'd be amazing!

[Brig. Brick]

Yawgmoth, on 05 April 2012 - 01:00 AM, said:

I always thought of it as a large, more complicate but also more entertaining, role playing game..which has rules, maps, stats, lots of background histories, ... I still cant think of how we could addapt something that a group of people play interacting between each other in real life, to a larger group, in a forum, but if we can create something like that, then it might be even better than GoH...without any prizes but only for the joy be part of it, 'coz it'd be amazing!

I don't understand the need of organization, the pirates are anarchist, and in the army, they have a full organization and we see some guild thing only in the Tournament of retribution, but pirates still being pirates, and the armada and natives are put apart.

I think, you are asking for a game, a role playing, but I think it could be more usefull if in this forum mix, in some way, the game of steve the pirate and more open "mafia" game, but I thing it still been hard mix PoC with magic with classic without it, personals MOCs with guilds ideas

[Frank Brick Wright]

We have two main problems now, namely:

• How are we going to join the Classic Pirate, Master and Commander and PoTC Universes
• How are we going to integrate this in the forums and who will take care of such topics

2. is mostly an issue to be solved my mods and in a latter stage, so I believe that if we can solve 1. in a proper manner then there are decent chances that the project takes place.

The join of these Universes requires intense discussion and rises a couple of issues. While PoTC is the easiest to integrate, for it is both fantastic and takes place in the real world, the other two are not. Personally am I convinced that our "World Map" should be the Map of the Caribbean, something like in the Sid Meier's Pirates Game. It is fairly possible to integrate both PoTC and historical builds here, and I believe we can do this also with the classic pirates.




Now arises another issue, which is: what factions are we going to choose? I'm not quite sure about saying: Pirates/Spaniards/British/Dutch/French/Islanders(or Natives) is a good idea, but it is indeed the most obvious and in my opinion, if properly worked, the one with best chances. I do not get the point of building red-coatish vessels or MOCs, so I think that red coats and blue coats could pass perfectly as British and French, tough I am sure there are people who will disagree.

So here is my first proposal: an historical Caribbean, with historical factions and place for lots of non-historical builds, such as Pirate builds, magical islands, volcanos, ships, etc.. Also we get the classic feeling, like small islands lost in the ocean with some small fortification on top of it, classic ships and historical accurate fortifications and builds. As far as I am concerned this seems plainly straight forward.

Another idea that occurred to me is to, instead of organizing the groups of people by Spaniards/Pirates/etc. we could organize them locally, for instance: Central America (Vera Cruz, etc), South America (Venezuela, etc.), East Caribbean (Guadeloupe, Nevis, etc.) and West Caribbean (Cuba, Port Royal, etc.). This will make the build more diverse, we can build in almost all themes and nations in the same place and in the end the region with more diversity/quality wins.

What do you all think?

Edited by Frank Brick Wright, 05 April 2012 - 10:56 AM.

[Captain Blackmoor]

I'm impressed by the amounts of ideas posted here. I'll follow this closely, but don't drive off! Organizing stuff has to be discussed with the staff first. But keep these awesome ideas coming!

[Duck]

I think that using a real map of the Caribbean unfortunately however unrestricted we want it, does restrict it. For example, Member A makes a scene of a pirate hideout on Cuba surrounded by lots of palm trees. Member B is a know-it-all and points out that Cuba does not have palm trees. (I have no idea if this is the case!). Could lead to all kinds of arguments as to whether this is allowed.

However, that said, the Caribbean is the perfect setting. I personally think we could use the map and just change the names of places? This would give us some room to maneuver while us knowing roughly what we're aiming for with the original Caribbean.

I think this is also why we need "Redcoats" and "Armada" as factions and not "Britain" and "Spain" - having a specific nation gives a mindset which even subconsciously must be adhered to. Also arises the problem if the Spaniard helmets being from the wrong time period!

By all means we could say that "Redcoats are loosely based on the British, Bluecoats France, and the Armada on Spain". This again would give a basic idea of what they should be like without restricting it purely to those original nations.

Beautiful things can be achieved in a world that is free for imagination and only loose guidelines.

I also agree that this probably wouldn't need a massive amount of policing or even competitions and could just be directed really by whichever direction those taking part take it - MOCs that inspire imagination and replies would almost pull our little Caribbean world in a direction for others to base their MOCs around.

This is a really exciting project and I hope that one day it might be implemented  

[Admiral Croissant]

How about creating a small image (like a flag) for each faction which people could place in their signature?

We could also use this map (made by The Pompous Potentate (Napoleon)):


Or perhaps there's a map in one of the old LEGO Pirate comics/magazines?
We could also make a map based on this or this image.

[Phred]

Duck, on 05 April 2012 - 12:34 PM, said:

I think that using a real map of the Caribbean unfortunately however unrestricted we want it, does restrict it. For example, Member A makes a scene of a pirate hideout on Cuba surrounded by lots of palm trees. Member B is a know-it-all and points out that Cuba does not have palm trees. (I have no idea if this is the case!). Could lead to all kinds of arguments as to whether this is allowed.

However, that said, the Caribbean is the perfect setting. I personally think we could use the map and just change the names of places? This would give us some room to maneuver while us knowing roughly what we're aiming for with the original Caribbean.

I think this is also why we need "Redcoats" and "Armada" as factions and not "Britain" and "Spain" - having a specific nation gives a mindset which even subconsciously must be adhered to. Also arises the problem if the Spaniard helmets being from the wrong time period!

By all means we could say that "Redcoats are loosely based on the British, Bluecoats France, and the Armada on Spain". This again would give a basic idea of what they should be like without restricting it purely to those original nations.

Beautiful things can be achieved in a world that is free for imagination and only loose guidelines.

I agree about using an exact Caribbean map and the factions.
I like the idea of having Red Coats, Blue Coats, and Armada.  Each of which could be (loosely?) based upon the British, French, and Spanish respectfully.
Looking at the admirals posted map and see that the fourth faction could be similar to the orange republic, where it has become an independent country.

Pirates could be a separate loose cannon faction that works as privateers for some empires or on their own against all empires.  Of course there would be a pirate haven (like Tortuga) for all piratey types to find safety.

[kurigan]

I feel I must chime with a few point of contention on this. I’m sure nothing if what I have to say will help my popularity at all. I will make a sacrifice of myself in hopes of serving a greater good if that’s what it takes though.



1. I take exception to the assumption that MOC’s as they are, occur at random or without a common thread of affiliation. Failing to know about or recognize a thing, does not negate it’s its existence. For one, myself and many like me, strive to develop whole worlds through our MOCs, which there in, must relate if they are the member parts of a story. What’s more, if you are building a historic model, then no extra effort is required to tie it into any larger story as real history serves as the idiom for the work.

2. This isn’t your play house; you are in someone else’s home. Not only are the moderators of this given forum in charge of and responsible for what goes on here, but eurobricks in general has its own staff above them. It’s all well and good if you all want to start your own game, but respect if you are told it cannot happen here. Perhaps it doesn’t fit, or you should start your own dedicated forum, just for the game? I’m not saying “get out” or “take your game elsewhere”, but rather, if the powers that be say it cannot happen here it doesn’t mean it cannot be done.

3. The MOC forum is not suppose to be about relating similar designs together, but rather an open forum for all designs within our theme. The perceived randomness is the very sprit and essence of the thing. If you do anything to change or hinder that, you may as well close up shop now, as you will not only ruin a good thing, but no one aspect (Historic, Classic Pirates or POTC) will draw enough active members to support the forum.

4. On a personal note, I sincerely dislike the idea of anything that will so monopolize the MOC forum. Frankly I find ToR quite trying, but it has cut its teeth, so to speak, and been so well managed that it is at the very least tolerable. The issue here is, if you are not participating in the game, there is little point to attempting upon anything else until it’s over. Mind you it’s not a matter of being a poor sport or an outsider; some members just can’t afford the time or bricks to compete, particularly those who are working on long term projects which tie up their supplies. Does it seem fair to you to essentially cut off non-participating member from their rightful showcase or the assistance and advice of the community?

5. One more area of concern, I’ve only though of after deliberating back over the thread before posting. The concept of mixing different aspects (Historic, Classic Pirates or POTC) has come up several times. I really cannot see how this could work out fairly in the slightest. The standards of history versus the fancy of fiction will always place one or the other at a disadvantage. Either historic wins by backing their designs up with data and real numbers or the fantasy takes the prize, simply by overbuilding or otherwise ignoring real world physical limitations. Seems to me the game either needs to be a hardcore historical reenactment or an outright fantasy.

P.S. I’ve used the term “game” a lot but I don’t mean it in the strictest sense. Despite any lack of formal competition, it’s still proposed that teams be formed and comparisons be made based on established rules and standards. Even if no winner is declared that still qualifies as a “game”.

[Duck]

Well, personally I would envision this (if it happens, indeed the powers that be are the ones to decide whether it happens here) as being an additional sub-forum as opposed to replacing our beloved MOC forum. Lots of us do look over the MOC's, enjoy the variety, are inspired by the techniques and post feedback - I don't think that would change too much. This would just be a group of related MOC's telling a group-story - I think?

In terms of rules and competition - that's something that I personally don't have any suggestions how it might work? I see this as more a case of those taking part contributing ships, buildings etc to our respective faction and building a story that way. After that, I'm if or how these factions would compete.

Those are my thoughts!  

[Phred]

kurigan, on 05 April 2012 - 07:59 PM, said:

5. One more area of concern, I’ve only though of after deliberating back over the thread before posting. The concept of mixing different aspects (Historic, Classic Pirates or POTC) has come up several times. I really cannot see how this could work out fairly in the slightest. The standards of history versus the fancy of fiction will always place one or the other at a disadvantage. Either historic wins by backing their designs up with data and real numbers or the fantasy takes the prize, simply by overbuilding or otherwise ignoring real world physical limitations. Seems to me the game either needs to be a hardcore historical reenactment or an outright fantasy.

I think the Elder scrolls roll playing games could be a good example of a mixture of relative accuracy and fantasy. Two characters of equivalent skill levels, would be close in combat capability if one uses defensive and offensive magic spells compared to another who uses a bow and armor.