37 replies to this topic

[Yawgmoth]

Well, today I was looking at some other theme forums, and saw something that I am sure you already knew :P ... In the historic themes, they have guilds, and just by looking a little time on their vast stuff, I have to say I got enrolled almost instanlty. I loved the background they give to the entire guilds, one feels involved in the atmosphera, and well.. it was just so nice to see something with that level of organization. So I then asked myself, why we dont have something similar here? :O we got factions here too, popular names around the scene, ...do you get my point?, there's enough material to make something with that level, or even better!.. but by now I see just random mocs here and there, nothing related with each other... and I am afraid to say it kind of lacks that feeling, enthusiasm, don't know how to name it..but you get the idea..don't you?

Hehe, just something I felt it'd be cool to have, to bring a little more life on the pirate theme, I'd like to hear your comments about this.  

Kind regards.

Edited by Yawgmoth, 01 April 2012 - 03:23 AM.

[Kookaburra Bomb]

I think the general consensus is that while there is interest in doing a pirates themed GoH, it is running (at least) until the end of the year.  This topic has been brought up once or twice and really it comes down to time that's available.  Competing Alongside GoH would be silly in my own opinion as there wouldn't be nearly as many participants.  I, myself, would certainly be interested in doing a pirates themed universe with backstories etc.  One issue is that when it comes to ship mocs they take a fair bit of time to finish unless you have all the parts or are modifying something you already have.  The other issue is accuracy, in that a lot of builders strive for historic accuracy in their ships, which might be a hard mold to get out of as far as challenges, and styles for guilds in a pseudo history.

I think as a whole if it was approached like GoH, but maybe a few hundred years later, to the point where arms and culture is significantly different, it could be amazing.  As far as interest goes, GoH fills a special void.  Lord of the rings, Game of thrones, Dungeons and Dragons, you name it, have always been these other worlds and existing mythos.  Pirates don't necessarily have that pleasure.  That being said, the idea genuinely excites me.  Reds, Blues, Pirates and EITC or some such would be great, flag combinations on ships, affiliations, trade, maps, stories all could be in a POTC type history (Fantasy based I mean).   Where would you like to see something like that go?  What are your ideas?  We could always plan for the future, that, or you could make slightly older period ships and just enter GoH now  

[Yawgmoth]

Kookaburra Bomb, on 01 April 2012 - 04:37 AM, said:

I think the general consensus is that while there is interest in doing a pirates themed GoH, it is running (at least) until the end of the year.  This topic has been brought up once or twice and really it comes down to time that's available.  Competing Alongside GoH would be silly in my own opinion as there wouldn't be nearly as many participants.  I, myself, would certainly be interested in doing a pirates themed universe with backstories etc.  One issue is that when it comes to ship mocs they take a fair bit of time to finish unless you have all the parts or are modifying something you already have.  The other issue is accuracy, in that a lot of builders strive for historic accuracy in their ships, which might be a hard mold to get out of as far as challenges, and styles for guilds in a pseudo history.

I think as a whole if it was approached like GoH, but maybe a few hundred years later, to the point where arms and culture is significantly different, it could be amazing.  As far as interest goes, GoH fills a special void.  Lord of the rings, Game of thrones, Dungeons and Dragons, you name it, have always been these other worlds and existing mythos.  Pirates don't necessarily have that pleasure.  That being said, the idea genuinely excites me.  Reds, Blues, Pirates and EITC or some such would be great, flag combinations on ships, affiliations, trade, maps, stories all could be in a POTC type history (Fantasy based I mean).   Where would you like to see something like that go?  What are your ideas?  We could always plan for the future, that, or you could make slightly older period ships and just enter GoH now  

Thing is, I see many people here that enjoy building historically accurate stuff, and just very few that makes "classic pirates" MOCS (dont take me wrong, I myself would enjoy making scenes from historic sea battles, but I dont have enought material to complete even a small scene properly :P)...and the idea would work only with the classic pirate line, and PotC.

[Captainmorgan]

That is a great idea, but it would not be up to the caliber of GoH. But it would be nice to have: Bluecoat, Redcoat, pirate and Armada factions.

[Yawgmoth]

Captainmorgan, on 01 April 2012 - 05:11 AM, said:

That is a great idea, but it would not be up to the caliber of GoH. But it would be nice to have: Bluecoat, Redcoat, pirate and Armada factions.

Pirates can also divide into factions: Ironhook, Redbeard, Brickbeard, Roger, etc...

And there's islanders too.

[Admiral Croissant]

Kookaburra Bomb, on 01 April 2012 - 04:37 AM, said:

...This topic has been brought up once or twice and really it comes down to time that's available...

That is correct. It has been discussed before (here). Perhaps the two can be merged.

[Yawgmoth]

I read the entire thread, and it seems the idea was already discussed and left in "waiting for later", so, you can close this one anytime you want :)

[Kookaburra Bomb]

As far as merging the two threads, I'd opt not to and just keep this one open.  Although the other thread does have some good information, the title alone would make it hard for anyone to find, apart from the fact that the discussion of pirate historica is OT for the thread in question (Golden Age MOC/Napoleonic discussion)  

Before this thread gets locked I would like to request that it be kept open for discussion and ideas. Obviously the crew and staff here have discussed the future and concept of the idea, in what must have been a fairly internal discussion, but perhaps we can have a productive brainstorming session and bring some fresh ideas to the table.  If not we can alway's wait it out, but inevitably a thread will be made that would require merger anyway

KB

[Admiral Croissant]

I wasn't going to close this topic, but perhaps you're right, a link to the other thread is perhaps better than merging them.
It was just a suggestion, and if the staff felt like they should be merged they could have done so.
Anyway, I can't promise any contests and stuff in the near future but feel free to come up with ideas

[Captain Blackmoor]

As far I'm aware we might have the Tournament of Retribution III sometime again too. And indeed, we're not going to introduce "Guilds" in the Pirates Forum next to the Guilds of Historica. But keep the ideas coming!

[Kookaburra Bomb]

Of course we would not compete or even run concurrently with GoH.  I would like to put out there, however, that I am not looking for challenges, nor prizes.  They are a great way to encourage, and reward the community, however it certainly would benefit from running after the initial Historica run (More free time from current members) .  Something like that would be amazing in time and draw an influx I'm sure.  What I WOULD like to see is more of a backstory between our mocs, and themes where they can grow in their own universe and separate from our own history.  

Napoleon53 made a fantastic map a while ago and while it exists in his basis of a fan fiction, as inspiration to me, was amazing to see.  Instead of having standalone ships, forts, island hideouts etc, giving them a PLACE in a world we can create, grow and foster could do nothing but good.  Obviously, it would foster more talk between members and push everyone.  Everybody has done this in their own head at one point or another, but sharing a collective dream of a new realm, new seas and monsters sparks my own imagination.

I know some of you are participating actively in GoH and it's great to follow these stories and character arcs, I just think that we could bring some of that magic with us here.  Hopefully I'm not alone in this and I'd love to hear everyones thoughts

[Yawgmoth]

Kookaburra Bomb, on 02 April 2012 - 12:27 PM, said:

Of course we would not compete or even run concurrently with GoH.  I would like to put out there, however, that I am not looking for challenges, nor prizes.  They are a great way to encourage, and reward the community, however it certainly would benefit from running after the initial Historica run (More free time from current members) .  Something like that would be amazing in time and draw an influx I'm sure.  What I WOULD like to see is more of a backstory between our mocs, and themes where they can grow in their own universe and separate from our own history.  

Napoleon53 made a fantastic map a while ago and while it exists in his basis of a fan fiction, as inspiration to me, was amazing to see.  Instead of having standalone ships, forts, island hideouts etc, giving them a PLACE in a world we can create, grow and foster could do nothing but good.  Obviously, it would foster more talk between members and push everyone.  Everybody has done this in their own head at one point or another, but sharing a collective dream of a new realm, new seas and monsters sparks my own imagination.

I know some of you are participating actively in GoH and it's great to follow these stories and character arcs, I just think that we could bring some of that magic with us here.  Hopefully I'm not alone in this and I'd love to hear everyones thoughts

Obviously you are not alone on this,... and well, I am more than willing to give support or ideas, as long as it improves the actual feeling on pirate MOCing. I've seen some people that enjoy to give some background to their MOCs, I for one, would be encouraged to do so,... and let me tell you, that until today, I realized that GoH had prizes or something like a contest running hehe,..first time I saw it, I thought it was just like a very interesting campaing of D&D, (Not exactly D&D, just an example to give you the idea), and the people that were participating there, did so in order to show some competitive enviroment, where everyone wants to show their best cards, and not to win any prizes. I think that this kind of encouragement is what we need here, and that was the essence of my first post, not to copy any guild creation idea, but to bring here that spirit of competitiveness, which would eventually bring more people, and unite actual members to show and develop their skills in a more interesting and funny way.

Obviously, contest brings that kind of feeling, but they aren't the only events that could inflame and encourage that. Everyone has a competitive spirit, even if just a bit, and that my friends, is what we need to develop, and increase in our community.

[Big Cam]

The Pirate staff actually just discussed this not too long ago. It's not something we would never do, but now is not the time. Also the Guilds forum came about as a need, there were so many guild threads that the regular history forum was crowded.

We already have the MOC forum for Pirates which I see as the equivalent to the Guilds.

We are in need of a contest around these parts and we are working on it, but obviously Zorro's death threw a kink in our well oiled machine.

I like the idea of the Guilds and maybe one day we will do something like that but for sure not along side the current history ones.

[Duck]

I quite like the idea of something along these lines, but agree that it would be very difficult to do something like GoH without it looking somewhat dwarfed!

When I first joined the forum, I remember the whole redcoats vs bluecoats thing was just finishing I think. It all looked rather fun! Perhaps something like that could again be done as a compromise, to encourage people to dabble more in "classic" pirates for a while as opposed to the increasingly popular historically accurate ships etc.

Fun MOC's of Redcoats blowing up bluecoats (and visa-versa) are the way to go in my opinion!

[Commodore Hornbricker]

Did I see a Tournament of Retribution III mention .  The Bluecoats finally finished licking their wounds eh!

That would be Awesome!

[Frank Brick Wright]

Biggie Cam, on 02 April 2012 - 06:25 PM, said:

We already have the MOC forum for Pirates which I see as the equivalent to the Guilds.

I'm sorry but I cannot agree with this statement. In the Guilds we have a lot of related builds: they have same backgrounds, countries, themes, ideas, stories; in the Pirate MOCs we get to see fantastic builds but with no relation/background between them. It is this lack of cohesion that, being improved, could turn this Pirate community into something even more fantastic. After all the forums are quite active, so I'm sure that, when this GoH thing has ended, with a couple of nice ideas is possible to build something great.

[Captain Blackmoor]

Commodore Hornbricker, back from Davy Jones' locker!
I agree, ToRIII would kick ass. We'll see how things unfold, but the staff has to focus on other things first!

[Sebeus I]

A while ago I had this pirate faction I named the Saphran Dragon, so far no more than two ships though.
This seems interesting.

[Commodore Hornbricker]

Captain Blackmoor, on 02 April 2012 - 09:08 PM, said:

Commodore Hornbricker, back from Davy Jones' locker!
I agree, ToRIII would kick megablocks. We'll see how things unfold, but the staff has to focus on other things first!

I know. I wish I had more time. I do check in as often as I can. Keep me posted you dirty bluecoat!

[Yawgmoth]

Frank Brick Wright, on 02 April 2012 - 08:40 PM, said:

I'm sorry but I cannot agree with this statement. In the Guilds we have a lot of related builds: they have same backgrounds, countries, themes, ideas, stories; in the Pirate MOCs we get to see fantastic builds but with no relation/background between them. It is this lack of cohesion that, being improved, could turn this Pirate community into something even more fantastic. After all the forums are quite active, so I'm sure that, when this GoH thing has ended, with a couple of nice ideas is possible to build something great.

This is something I agree with 100% ..there's no relation between MOCs, even from the same owner..no background, and nobody to challenge...so, its only a place to post personal stuff, like if I were just uploading my photos on facebook, so everybody comment them,. and that's it,..but believe me, this is just a possibility to improve, and lead the community to a new and more entertaining future :P

[Kookaburra Bomb]

That being the case, I pose this.  No competitions, no prizes, this is run by us and for us, with little to no mod support.  They have more than enough on their plate as it is, and I believe we can all conduct ourselves in an appropriate manner.  Completely voluntary: You will obviously miss nothing by not joining or investing your time; You will miss out on some good fun and an exciting way to challenge yourself and bring some camaraderie missing from sailing the MOC forum alone.  Occasional build challenges to push YOUR own limits, with rules I'm happy to expand on.  An alternate fantasy history, in a world apart from ours.  

As far as this universe would go, I would personally draw inspiration from a world similar to PoTC, where sea creatures exist, magic and voodoo, lore and legends.  Set in a time of trade, piracy, adventure and mystery.  While maps exist, not EVERY island has been found, some coastlines might not be fully understood, and some waterways or bayous remain unexplored.  A statue of the God of The Oceans/Poseidon abreast of a large trade port, a sorcerer from a far off land, an impending black fortress by the sea.  If there is one thing LoTR got right on film was making a truly believable fantasy world, gritty harsh and real.  

We create a map of the world and sufficient enough backstories for each faction, we establish a look and style for each faction, at the most basic level including colour guides.  If you want to participate, a sigfig or new character that fits into this world.  Whether they be the leader of an army, captain of a tug, merchant king, or fishermans wife, everyone belongs somewhere.


Some ideas for factions/groups:  
Warring nations of man, maybe a departure from red vs. blue (In the classic sense); Feuding kingdoms/Empires.
Mythos, creatures and  vikings.
Pirate lords of the realms/seas

More importantly I would like to take the chance to open up a round table here, as this is essentially a great exploratory thread, before we take it to PM, flesh it out, and make another post.  I would like to stress that I'm not looking to put any stress on anyone here, however, I'm not prepared to wait until GoH is over to discuss, as I think it really can be participant run.

Thoughts, ideas, concerns?

Edited by Kookaburra Bomb, 03 April 2012 - 09:59 AM.

[Horry]

Kookaburra Bomb, on 03 April 2012 - 08:07 AM, said:

Thoughts, ideas, concerns?

Yes, yes and yes. While I do think that this idea is a very good one and I would almost definetly participate if this was organized by the shipyard crew, I am more than sceptical about the feasibility of such an endeavour.

(1) There are really really different opinions and tastes around here. What style to choose? What factions? how many? For example: Duck would like to have the classic pirates style, I'd like to make it much more realistic - How do we compromise?
(2) How do we organize such a guild thingy? If those things would be posted in the MOC section, they would almost certainly "outshine" the regular MOCs for a while and I would not like that. They definetely don't belong into the regular LEGO Pirates section. And if a new section would be made, it would also have to be maintained. On a board like Eurobricks this is an awful lot of work - you'd have to close and move threads that were posted there by mistake. You would have to watch threads for inappropriate content. Especially from those who would join EB (or try to rejoin) just in order to participate - this is a difficult job and I'd say it's their decision to make, not ours...
(3) We don't even have the basic needs in terms of forum-powers to maintain that guild. We cannot merge, rename or close threads, let alone make simple polls. All things that would come very handy. And don't expect anyone to give those powers to us.
(4) The logistic work needed to maintain this is huge. Guilds threads, indices, rules, rule-enforcement, petitions, coordination with the guild masters... No offense, Kookaburra, but you are here since September and have made 9 posts up to now, most of them here. I don't know if all of this work could and would be done by you. I would certainly not entrust myself with it. And if Big Cam says that it's too much work for the staff right now I trust them. They've got an awful lot of experience in those kinds of things.

As a compromise I'd suggest to prepare ideas and systems that we could present to the shipyard crew. If they find our ideas plausible and doable, they will consider it. But making a guild thingy without their consent and causing all the messy side effects feels wrong  



That being said, I'd like nothing more than a merchants guild (like the EITC) and an explorers guild

[Kookaburra Bomb]

Quote

(1) How do we compromise?

My initial Thoughts on this were leaning heavily towards choosing your own flavour.  If realistic, napoleonic, styles suit you, one of the factions would appeal more than others.  If it was to be more classic pirates then one of the others.  

Quote

(2) How do we organize such a guild thingy? If those things would be posted in the MOC section, they would almost certainly "outshine" the regular MOCs for a while and I would not like that.

I don't see why they wouldn't belong in the regular MOC section.  All we would be trying for, if anything, is just some cross MOC storyline.  It would still be a ship, vignette, or land based etc.  As per "outshine", what could be bad about seeing nice, thought out MOCs?  Or are you speaking in the sense of creating a caliber and scaring away potential members?

Quote

(3) We don't even have the basic needs in terms of forum-powers to maintain that guild.

Why would we need these powers?  If a post is wrong or doesn't follow EB's guidelines it would be gone, nothing new.  If a member had polling power, and joined, could he not poll for us?  Any ship, land based MOC, could be indexed just as they have been.  All we would need is links to their threads in the MOC forum.

Quote

(4) I don't know if all of this work could and would be done by you.

This is an incredibly fair statement, I have been lurking on here for years now and only joined in September, I have been a mod on other forums (Non-lego) in the past and I know how taxing, and how much work it can be.  However, the whole point of what I am trying to say is this doesn't need its own forum, it wouldn't need a sticky.  Everything would remain exactly the same here at Pirates EXCEPT for one or 2 extra threads.  The people who would actively want to be involved wouldn't need to do anything new.  Example:  A new MOC is posted, along with pictures (In 800x600 of course   ) and a backstory of their MOC that relates or ties in to what we have established in the single main thread.  All it encourages is community

I guess what I'm trying to say is all one would need is for the mods to let their be one discussion thread about it, where we can commune and come up with ideas, and link to creations from there.  A detailed first post with a map, backstory, It's all quite feasible.  I hope no one here is taking offense from what I say, I mean no aggression at all.  At the end of the day, we are all here for our love of Lego, I only sought another avenue we could pursue, to broaden our imaginations and share a collective experience.  Of course whatever the mods decide to do or what happens otherwise, their say is final.  

Edited by Kookaburra Bomb, 03 April 2012 - 02:11 PM.

[Captain Heineken]

Many good ideas round here. It would definitely be fun and I'd participate. But I also agree that it would be difficult to start something until the GoH thing is finished, simply because there are alot people who may want to do some pirate stuff but don't have the time to do both.

It's a great idea to put MOCs into context.

Until then we could do some contests here. Let's define a motto (for example 'Captain Roger's favourite tavern') and then see what happens. But without prizes, just for fun. I would recommend to start with some small themes (not 'Build a 50 cannon frigate accurately', because there are many who might be intimitated by those awesome MOCs here.

[Big Cam]

Commodore Hornbricker, on 02 April 2012 - 08:38 PM, said:

Did I see a Tournament of Retribution III mention .  The Bluecoats finally finished licking their wounds eh!

That would be Awesome!

Yes, you did see that.

Frank Brick Wright, on 02 April 2012 - 08:40 PM, said:

I'm sorry but I cannot agree with this statement. In the Guilds we have a lot of related builds: they have same backgrounds, countries, themes, ideas, stories; in the Pirate MOCs we get to see fantastic builds but with no relation/background between them. It is this lack of cohesion that, being improved, could turn this Pirate community into something even more fantastic. After all the forums are quite active, so I'm sure that, when this GoH thing has ended, with a couple of nice ideas is possible to build something great.

I completely agree with what you just said. I guess I was defending the need for a subforum for guilds, everything else you said is a good idea, and is definitely something we'll consider in the future.

Kookaburra Bomb, on 03 April 2012 - 08:07 AM, said:

That being the case, I pose this.  No competitions, no prizes, this is run by us and for us, with little to no mod support.  They have more than enough on their plate as it is, and I believe we can all conduct ourselves in an appropriate manner.

This would be Ni impossible. Regular members can't index and do any of the administrative tasks.

Plus I know you individually can act in an appropriate manner, and I'm sure most of the other member who frequent the Pirate forum can as well.  But there is always someone who acts a fool.