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WIP MOC: German Tri-axle Carriages


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#1 Frank STENGEL

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 11:32 PM

Two carriages somehow looking like the AB3yg (1st-2nd class) and B3yg (2nd class) types:

Posted Image

I have a couple of questions:

1. Does anyone know how to make rounder roofs? Something round like part 61487 (which seemingly exists only in white or green) would be perfect...
2. Is the coulour for the bottom of the body correct? I am tryin to represent the sloping effect at the bottom of the body as one can see on this link

#2 Steinkopf

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 01:58 AM

If you wanted to take the non purist approach you could use Green 61487 slopes and put Dark Bley vinyl/sticker over the top surface and cap the studded section with tiles, looking at the roof profile that would follow a very similar shape, also you would be able to retain the green ends like the original.

With the inverted slopes you don't need that many as they are stiffening ribs that go from the underframe to the coach sides, if you have a good look at the photos you will notice that as well as the other fitting such as brake cylinders and battery boxes etc, black is the right colour to use for that.

Edited by TheBrickster, 09 March 2012 - 02:05 AM.
quote of entire post removed.


#3 roamingstudio

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 07:21 AM

How do you make sure the wheels fit around the radius of Lego track? Are they articulated on small bases?

#4 Frank STENGEL

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 08:28 AM

View PostSteinkopf, on 09 March 2012 - 01:58 AM, said:

If you wanted to take the non purist approach you could use Green 61487 slopes and put Dark Bley vinyl/sticker over the top surface and cap the studded section with tiles, looking at the roof profile that would follow a very similar shape, also you would be able to retain the green ends like the original.

Indeed, however While not being a purist, I find it difficult to procure stickers, let alone use them. Basically I can easily find printable decals, but I have yet to find prinable vinyl sheets.


Steinkopf said:

With the inverted slopes you don't need that many as they are stiffening ribs that go from the underframe to the coach sides, if you have a good look at the photos you will notice that as well as the other fitting such as brake cylinders and battery boxes etc, black is the right colour to use for that.

I tried with black and I find it to "pure": gray looks a bit weathered. As soon as it is possible, I'll post a version in black next to a version in dark bluish gray.

View Postroamingstudio, on 09 March 2012 - 07:21 AM, said:

How do you make sure the wheels fit around the radius of Lego track? Are they articulated on small bases?



Yes. I use an an articulation system. The centre wheel is sliding on the frame and using universal joints causing the outside wheels to turn. I made a mock-up to see whether it works.



#5 roamingstudio

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 11:39 AM

Depends whether you want your model to be 6 or 8 wide in the end; or whether you want to start using some SNOT techniques.

Solutions which could work
Light Bluish Grey 45411: But ouch these are expensive parts
White 54095: But probably too wide
Light Bluish Grey 88930: mounted at right angles to each other with SNOT techniques
88930 counterpart 61068
58883 mounted upside down, with tiles to cap the bottom studs?

The wheel base mechanism would be a worthy thing to look at!

Edited by roamingstudio, 09 March 2012 - 11:45 AM.


#6 peterab

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 08:37 AM

I would probably use http://www.bricklink...=85&itemID=1383 for your roof with a flat middle section, though it does use a lot of parts.

Very nice Umbauwagon, I've built a few of the longer version so I'm always interested to see someone else's. I like the idea of the slopes to represent the bracing, but I agree with Steinkopf, the actual wagon frame is vertical set back from the body edge, with only thin diagonal bracing. Perhaps use only a few slopes to represent them, and I'd choose the black same as the rest of the floor.

I'd also love to see the design of the wheel articulation.

Edited by peterab, 10 March 2012 - 08:42 AM.


#7 Steinkopf

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 09:16 AM

View Postpeterab, on 10 March 2012 - 08:37 AM, said:

I would probably use http://www.bricklink...=85&itemID=1383 for your roof with a flat middle section, though it does use a lot of parts.

That's what my thoughts were originally but given the coaches are 8 wide I think it will make the centre section of the roof too flat as there is a fairly pronounced curve in the real life version, if the coaches were to be made 6 or 7 wide the 6005 arches would be perfect.

Edited by Steinkopf, 10 March 2012 - 09:16 AM.


#8 Frank STENGEL

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 02:20 PM

Here is (bad) video of the axle design:

[url="]

As for the roof, I think I'll stay with the current one: although it has more of a parabolic rather than half elliptic section, it is easier to build. I'll post a picture of the new design for the lower body as soon as it is ready.

#9 Steinkopf

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 02:33 PM

Looking at the video I suspect you may have some issues with the buffer beams and couplings when they are connected to other stock, my advice would be to make a second chassis and test them behind a loco, the main area for concern is when your train is travelling through points given the curvature of track that the train will have to negotiate.

#10 Frank STENGEL

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 06:43 PM

View PostSteinkopf, on 11 March 2012 - 02:33 PM, said:

Looking at the video I suspect you may have some issues with the buffer beams and couplings when they are connected to other stock, my advice would be to make a second chassis and test them behind a loco, the main area for concern is when your train is travelling through points given the curvature of track that the train will have to negotiate.

Two videos with a lock on s-curves:

[url="]
[url="]

By the way, don't the curves when one goes through a point have the same curvature as normal curves?

#11 Steinkopf

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 09:24 PM

The curvature on the points is the same as normal curves the problem is that it's a reverse curve, negotiating that section at high speed you can get a whiplash effect in the couplings that can cause the stock to derail. I noticed with your loco you have the coupling attatched to a draw bar which gives the coupling a far greater range of travel compared to the standard buffer arrangement, that feature is very useful when negotiating curves, where my concerns are is if you are using the standard buffer couplings on all the stock the pivot points have a far lesser range of traverse. With the coaches you may need some form of drawbar arrangement to couple them together, that way you would remove any potential problems.

Edited by Steinkopf, 11 March 2012 - 09:33 PM.


#12 missouri_bb63

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 07:16 PM

View Postpeterab, on 10 March 2012 - 08:37 AM, said:

I would probably use http://www.bricklink...=85&itemID=1383 for your roof with a flat middle section, though it does use a lot of parts.



Hi Frank, check out the Flickr link in my signature to see what the 8 wide roof looks like with the curves that peterab suggested. I made a similar tri-axle wagon for my BR50 which is an interpretation of the locomotive and wagon that are at the train museum in Blumberg Germany. I like the solution you found for the third axle. As my solutions didn't work properly I actually had it running on 4 sets of wheels on the track (you will see that in the video here), and switched it back to 3 axles when on display.

I am looking forward to seeing how yours turns out!

Edited by missouri_bb63, 17 March 2012 - 11:16 AM.


#13 Frank STENGEL

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 05:36 PM

View Postmissouri_bb63, on 16 March 2012 - 07:16 PM, said:

Hi Frank, check out the Flickr link in my signature to see what the 8 wide roof looks like with the curves that peterab suggested.



The bricklink part orders are gone... I'll show the photographic/video results as soon as the building is over... I am adding a boxcar which is of the approximate Ghs 30 "Oppeln" type (see that link -- the photo is very big, so no embedding)

I am already full into my next project: a (062)+(260) (i.e. (C1)+(1C)) articulated tender locomotive of the "du Bousquet" type (see the wiki page or that page). In 8 stud wide it will have a length of about 42 studs. Here is postcard depiciting the loc:

Posted Image


The coulour scheme is one of: chocolate brown ("Nord" scheme -- the one on the postard was in that scheme) ; a rather expensive coulour, jet black ("Est" or "Ceinture" scheme) or black with green tanks (SNCF scheme -- after 1938). I think I'll go for all black...

#14 Frank STENGEL

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 02:59 PM

Well they are finished... I have made a complete train with them: BR64+AB3yge+B3yge+Ghs31...

Posted Image


There is a brickshelf galley to see the whole gizmo...

#15 roamingstudio

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 04:40 PM

Brown Track? Brown Track? Whose been an naughty Englighten person?...
Looks good though!

#16 Frank STENGEL

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 06:11 PM

View Postroamingstudio, on 04 May 2012 - 04:40 PM, said:

Brown Track? Brown Track? Whose been an naughty Englighten person?...
Guilty as charged. Honestly, I prefer the brown tracks over the gray ones for steam. They look more like old times tracks with rusty rails and wooden sleepers like these (thank wiki!):

Posted Image



I use the gray ones for more moder trains...



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