Jump to content


Layout: How Much Volume?


22 replies to this topic

#1 JamesP

JamesP

    Posts: 50
    Joined: 11-December 11
    Member: 23006
    Country: Canada

Posted 30 January 2012 - 08:34 AM

This isn't a "it's bigger than mine" contest.  I've been working in the same space since 2001, when we moved out here.  There have been a range of different track layouts, I think this is really #4 or so.

Posted Image

BlueBrick lists:
        
Author: James Powell
LUG/LTC: VicLUG
Show: Home Layout
Date: Sunday, January 29, 2012
Comment:



+-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| 1   | 10027             | N/A       | Train Engine Shed - Long version                                |
| 19  | 2859              | Dark Gray | Train Track 9V Point Right                                      |
| 3   | 2859HALFCURVE     | Dark Gray | Train Track 9V Point Right Modified                             |
| 14  | 2861              | Dark Gray | Train Track 9V Point Left                                       |
| 9   | 2861HALFCURVE     | Dark Gray | Train Track 9V Point Left Modified                              |
| 927 | 2865              | Dark Gray | Rail 9V Straight                                                |
| 209 | 2867              | Dark Gray | Rail 9V Curve                                                   |
| 1   | 32087             | Dark Gray | Train Track 9V Crossing                                         |
| 54  | 3811              | Green     | Baseplate 32 x 32                                               |
| 3   | 3857              | Green     | Baseplate 16 x 32 with Square Corners                           |
| 1   | 4539              | N/A       | Level Crossing                                                  |
| 28  | 610P01            | Green     | Baseplate, Road 32 x 32 8-Stud Straight with Road Pattern       |
| 1   | 612P01            | Green     | Baseplate, Road 32 x 32 8-Stud T Intersection with Road Pattern |
| 3   | 613P01            | Green     | Baseplate, Road 32 x 32 8-Stud Curve with Road Pattern          |
| 1   | 7838              | N/A       | Freight Loading Depot with Wagon                                |
| 9   | 9VHALFCURVE       | Dark Gray | Custom 9V Rail Half Curve                                       |
| 11  | 9VHALFSTRAIGHT    | Dark Gray | Custom 9V Rail Half Straight                                    |
| 1   | 9VQUARTERSTRAIGHT | Dark Gray | Custom 9V Rail Quarter Straight                                 |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+


In terms of total area, I have about 24x24 for the lego.  It extends into some other areas a little bit (the entire spiral), but is scenic'd only in the lego area.  The middle level is the staging yard for my OO scale railway, which runs interlaced through the lego in a couple of places.  It made the spiral an interesting construct, to say the least.
Posted Image
Posted Image

Trackwork is a little more wonky than the plan shows, as I have a bunch of special cut pieces, ranging down to 2L straight track.  (including some 5/7L pieces...).  Once you are fitting lego to a space, the track has to make the geometry of the area available to you.  

James

#2 AussieJimbo

AussieJimbo

    Posts: 944
    Joined: 14-December 10
    Member: 14681

Posted 30 January 2012 - 09:28 AM

Far out. That multi-level spiral viaduct is something else. A fun and practical solution for behind the scenes level changes.

I look forward to pics of the scenic areas.

:classic: :classic:

#3 Andy Glascott

Andy Glascott

    Posts: 140
    Joined: 25-April 09
    Member: 5894

Posted 30 January 2012 - 11:04 AM

That's huge! I love the spiral, something I'd love to have a go at at some point.

Andy

#4 bricks n bolts

bricks n bolts

    Posts: 178
    Joined: 18-May 10
    Member: 10728
    Country: UK

Posted 30 January 2012 - 12:39 PM

Wow, that's a fantastic way to switch levels.
Posted Image

#5 LEGO Guy Bri

LEGO Guy Bri

    Posts: 2920
    Joined: 28-October 10
    Member: 13958
    Country: X

Posted 31 January 2012 - 04:53 AM

Nice looking layout 'JamesP'. It sounds huge, could you post more pics of different areas of the layout or a link to them? I like the spiral a lot. Are those white lines running up the legs supplying power further up the track? Very impressive   Posted Image
-I don't tell you how to tell me what to do, so don't you tell me how to do what you told me to do... I know when to use finesse

#6 kyphur

kyphur

  • Going Postal with Maersk Madness!


    Posts: 572
    Joined: 09-June 10
    Member: 11374
    Country: US

Posted 31 January 2012 - 05:50 AM

It's nice to see what others are doing on such a massive scale...

Posted Image  Posted Image

Images are links

Here is my favorite BrickLink Store


#7 JamesP

JamesP

    Posts: 50
    Joined: 11-December 11
    Member: 23006
    Country: Canada

Posted 09 April 2012 - 03:52 AM

This links to reply for a couple other topics, these are more images of my home layout.

Posted Image
ZNAP canopy
Posted Image
Brickstol Temple Meads front
Posted Image
Brickstol Temple Meads trackplan
Posted Image
Exit of BTM
Posted Image
4551 & mail wagons
Posted Image
The Port
Posted Image
Port other end
Posted Image
Daniel and engines
Posted Image
End of Yard
Posted Image
Middle of Yard
Posted Image
Other end of yard
Posted Image
DSC_0030 by Peach James, on Flickr

Note:  on the last photo, there is a OO scale train crossing through the spiral.  Yes, the home layout is that complex !

OK, about the spiral.  The lines on it are power lines, it is fed on every level so that there is something like 15 pieces of track to power.  The whole layout is run as a single section of Digital Command Control, by a DB 150, using Digitrax to supply power.  (again, compared with Long Marton, it's simple...(Long Marton, S&C (hosted on RM Web))  I run 3 loops of track, the upper & middle on the upper level, and the lower loop.  The spiral connects the two levels, and sees limited use.  (heck, both railways see limited use.  If only they added 3 hrs/day I would be OK for time).  If anyone has questions on DCC use I would be happy to answer them.  To be honest, I don't view it as the way ahead from here, I think LiPo and PF are the way forward from here, unfortunately.  (Track is the limit, I have lots of 9V, but without huge quantities of legacy 9V, I would be going PF)

The storage yard on the lower level currently has 95+ pieces of stock buried in it.  There's also a Metroliner (with extra cars) on the grade between the middle and upper levels, along with my Emerald Night.  On top of the wagons in the yard, there are about 20 pieces more stock spread throughout the layout "loose", including the winter train & half a dozen more 21T hoppers.  There are 9 heavy ore cars which the pair of Class 25's are used to top & tail, and then the other passenger trains.  The blue VIA is a FP, steam generator, 4 coaches & the double deck dome car, there is a single wheel steam loco, booster van & 5 6 wheel coaches as well, parked in Bricstol Temple Meads.  (Bristol Temple Meads, made of brick...hence, Brickstol Temple Meads).  I've got a few 4.5V/12V waggons built up on the layout, as well as a 116 which is currently boxed/on the bookshelf & the 7722 & 7720.  

Any further questions, feel free to ask.

James Powell

#8 JamesP

JamesP

    Posts: 50
    Joined: 11-December 11
    Member: 23006
    Country: Canada

Posted 27 April 2012 - 05:39 PM

A couple more photos:

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image
April 2012 CBT by Peach James, on Flickr

(last one is at CBT, not in basement !)

James

#9 tedbeard

tedbeard

    Posts: 1126
    Joined: 16-August 06
    Member: 905
    Country: Canada

Posted 27 April 2012 - 11:06 PM

Looking forward to seeing it all (again) in person in August. :)
Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image

#10 PeteM

PeteM

    Posts: 30
    Joined: 14-April 12
    Member: 27962
    Country: UK

Posted 28 April 2012 - 10:23 AM

Very impressive - and as a native of Bristol and a daily user of Temple Meads station, I just wanted to say well done on 'Bricstol Temple Meads'!
Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image

#11 JamesP

JamesP

    Posts: 50
    Joined: 11-December 11
    Member: 23006
    Country: Canada

Posted 29 April 2012 - 04:55 AM

 PeteM, on 28 April 2012 - 10:23 AM, said:

Very impressive - and as a native of Bristol and a daily user of Temple Meads station, I just wanted to say well done on 'Bricstol Temple Meads'!

I was much closer to my assistant's age when I was given a copy of "Brunel, Bristol and the GWR" (Ian Allen books).  It has a decent amount of photos of Temple Meads, and I wanted to build a model.  I know it should be in Tan, but it was built (originally) in 2000, in the days when Tan was a rare colour, and Bricklink was Brickbay.  Yes, it has been around that long...

James

#12 LEGO Guy Bri

LEGO Guy Bri

    Posts: 2920
    Joined: 28-October 10
    Member: 13958
    Country: X

Posted 30 April 2012 - 04:54 AM

I was reading above and am looking into the Digitrax DB 150. I am curious as to how these work. I am primarily 9V with around 500 pieces of track. Currently I have no working layout, but hope to create a large scale layout with long, multi-motor trains and gradual, low grades. I am very unfamiliar with powering large layouts and these other non-Lego supply units. Could you provide a little back ground on proper application and use for this? Like are they compatible with the Lego regulator or completely replace it? I read about the minimum of 12V AC/DC. How safe is that to use with the 9V motors? Most of mine are gently used, but I have many that are second hands from sets bought on eBay. So, I can only go by what they're previous owners said on condition. I am a little worried about the extra power burning up their internal brushes    Posted Image
-I don't tell you how to tell me what to do, so don't you tell me how to do what you told me to do... I know when to use finesse

#13 JamesP

JamesP

    Posts: 50
    Joined: 11-December 11
    Member: 23006
    Country: Canada

Posted 01 May 2012 - 12:15 AM

 Lego Guy Bri, on 30 April 2012 - 04:54 AM, said:

I was reading above and am looking into the Digitrax DB 150. I am curious as to how these work. I am primarily 9V with around 500 pieces of track. Currently I have no working layout, but hope to create a large scale layout with long, multi-motor trains and gradual, low grades. I am very unfamiliar with powering large layouts and these other non-Lego supply units. Could you provide a little back ground on proper application and use for this? Like are they compatible with the Lego regulator or completely replace it? I read about the minimum of 12V AC/DC. How safe is that to use with the 9V motors? Most of mine are gently used, but I have many that are second hands from sets bought on eBay. So, I can only go by what they're previous owners said on condition. I am a little worried about the extra power burning up their internal brushes    Posted Image


OK- Lego and DCC.  There a a couple of people out and about with large amounts of experience with Lego and DCC.  I'm one of them.  I've had DCC converted lego trains since 2001, when I started converting using Digitrax equipment (DN 121 decoders, and the DB 150 power supply).  

Maximum voltage:  Max voltage on the track is set-able.  I run at about 12V on the track, which allows for about 10V on the motor, if you so desire.  (trust me, you don't...one of two things happens at 10V, the motor flys off the track, or it burns out...usually, it flys off the corner, into the place you conveniently forgot you cannot reach without doing your best yoga manover).  Since the big thing here is heat, the motor is designed to run (turn) at a certain speed with 9V applied to it.  Don't hold the motor stopped (it will slip something, anyway...wheels on rails, or gears in motor).  With 9V at the motor, most lego train designs will not make it around lego curves.  Hence=auto safe.

The DCC uses Pulse Width Modulation to control the speed of the motor.  So, the motor sees the 10V, for 0-100% of the time, depending on how fast you want it to go. The motors have no issue with PWM being used to control speed, because the amount of heat generated in the motor is dependant on the average voltage, not the peak voltage.  (since peak voltage of 10V all the time sends the motor off the track, the motor is safe from destruction).

Now, how does this work?  The DB 150 takes the signal from a Throttle, and converts it to a data signal, which is fed as a square wave AC onto the rails.  The square wave AC conveys the speed and direction to Decoders fitted into each loco (or each motor, depending on my state of mind when I wired them...I've been back and forth a couple of times).  The decoder then takes the sqare wave AC and extracts the control signal from it, and allows the amount of the AC power to go through (converted to DC, and PWM'd) to the motor, powering the motor.  The motor then, crashes into the train coming the other way on the same track, because you forgot about that one...and a good time was had by all except Timmy, who you had planted on the cowcatcher and is now discomboulated all over the place.  (no problem, there are lots of timmy's)

Issues:
1.  The booster I am using is a 5 AMP booster.  5x12=54 watts.  Think 60 w lightbulb, and how hot it can get.  It's important to understand that.  Don't leave the room with the track power on...
2.  Wiring:  About every 25 sections of track require a feeder.  I use modified track for most of my feeders at home.  I use the offical 9V connectors on portable layouts.  (because the lego wiring system is incredibly easy to connect...).  The reason why you need lots of connections is tied to #1.  The booster has short circuit protection, but it needs a very low resistance to trip.  (remember, 54 watts output...)  Like, it needs to see less than 5/12=.41 ohm resistance.  Lego track offers about .02 ohm/section.  (turnouts are much higher).  So, after 50 sections, the booster will NOT trip.  Meaning, along the way, the track has to disperse 54 watts of heat...along with all your wiring, and whatever is short circuiting the track...think 60w lightbulb again...and what that would do to ABS...
3.  Complex operating of throttles: the more fuctions on the throttle, the harder it looks to operate it.  Easy ones (UT2's) have the ability to select the loco, and run it back & forth, and are fine for fairly well anyone.  More complex throttles (DT-400) have a miriad of buttons on them, and button phobic people go into a state of total confusion on how to operate a train.  (no, I don't have any switches on the lego that are motorized, yes, I do use up to the 12 functions on some locos, light, sound & features take lots of controlling)

Now that I've given you a mouthful, think about what you want to do.  If it is your intent to run a single lego loco on a loop, DCC is NOT the tool to use.  If you want to be able to crash lego trains together on a loop, DCC is probably the simplest way to manage it !

(feel free to ask for assistance with DC track wiring too...but there, it's much simpler with 1 controller/loop & lego only bits...)

James

#14 LEGO Guy Bri

LEGO Guy Bri

    Posts: 2920
    Joined: 28-October 10
    Member: 13958
    Country: X

Posted 01 May 2012 - 03:21 AM

 JamesP, on 01 May 2012 - 12:15 AM, said:

OK- Lego and DCC:

Now that I've given you a mouthful, think about what you want to do.  If it is your intent to run a single lego loco on a loop, DCC is NOT the tool to use.  If you want to be able to crash lego trains together on a loop, DCC is probably the simplest way to manage it !


Many thanks for all the info. Most of which I now have a basic understanding of. It seems that for my needs using this system would be way too much for my simple needs. I was under the impression that it was absolutely necessary for 200+ piece track layouts. This is somewhat good news as I don't need to look to invest hundreds in this kind of system.

Ideally I would like to have two trains, no more than three (spaced a good distance apart if even possible), on the same extended loop. More than likely, if I were to run three, at least one would be PF, so no trouble there. Do you have any knowledge on using multiple Lego 9V Regs. on one loop or attaching multiple cables to a single Reg? Or using a second Reg. on, say on an inner loop, separated by switch points? Late last year I tried two regulators on a 70-some piece loop, no switch points. It cleared up the drop in power at the farthest section of track, but obviously has it's own drawbacks. I'm looking for the easiest way to supply even power to a heavy train over a large loop Posted Image




-I don't tell you how to tell me what to do, so don't you tell me how to do what you told me to do... I know when to use finesse

#15 JamesP

JamesP

    Posts: 50
    Joined: 11-December 11
    Member: 23006
    Country: Canada

Posted 01 May 2012 - 04:24 AM

 Lego Guy Bri, on 01 May 2012 - 03:21 AM, said:

Many thanks for all the info. Most of which I now have a basic understanding of. It seems that for my needs using this system would be way too much for my simple needs. I was under the impression that it was absolutely necessary for 200+ piece track layouts. This is somewhat good news as I don't need to look to invest hundreds in this kind of system.

Ideally I would like to have two trains, no more than three (spaced a good distance apart if even possible), on the same extended loop. More than likely, if I were to run three, at least one would be PF, so no trouble there. Do you have any knowledge on using multiple Lego 9V Regs. on one loop or attaching multiple cables to a single Reg? Or using a second Reg. on, say on an inner loop, separated by switch points? Late last year I tried two regulators on a 70-some piece loop, no switch points. It cleared up the drop in power at the farthest section of track, but obviously has it's own drawbacks. I'm looking for the easiest way to supply even power to a heavy train over a large loop Posted Image


If you are running one train per loop, then the standard Lego controller is fine.  What you need to do is add another wire to the furthest point on the loop (by track, not of necessity by distance) to the controller.  So, for example, if you have the "normal" lego loop, you want to put the 2nd feed on the opposite side of the first one, then connect it using wires (as long as you need to reach, they can be chained off one another), to the same controller.  Turn the controller ON when you are going to make the connection, and if the green LED goes dim, take the wire off (the LED should go back to bright), then turn the connector 90%.  The LED should stay the same brightness once you have connected the extension wire.  

This way, the resistance on your layout will be cut by 3/4ths for the now most distant parts (because they are getting fed from both ends, and are 1/2 the distance from the power supply as before).

Multi trains on a single loop starts to get more complicated.  If the loop is long enough, then having 2-3 controllers set to run the same way and same speed will work.  You will have to drive one train either faster or slower as required to ensure that the two trains don't couple together to make one train.  (even if they do, there is no harm).  Make sure the controllers are all set to go the same way on the knob, by turning the wires as required when you put the loop together.  There are fancier ways of doing this as DC wiring, but at that point is when DCC starts to look more attractive...

I hope this helps.

James

#16 LEGO Guy Bri

LEGO Guy Bri

    Posts: 2920
    Joined: 28-October 10
    Member: 13958
    Country: X

Posted 01 May 2012 - 07:03 AM

 JamesP, on 01 May 2012 - 04:24 AM, said:

[snip]
I hope this helps


Quite so, this has been very helpful. I figured adding a second regulator would help. I did keep them throttled up the same, and never above 4th notch.  I'm glad I could speak to someone that knows more about this than I. Thank you Posted Image
-I don't tell you how to tell me what to do, so don't you tell me how to do what you told me to do... I know when to use finesse

#17 JamesP

JamesP

    Posts: 50
    Joined: 11-December 11
    Member: 23006
    Country: Canada

Posted 29 July 2012 - 05:10 AM

Video of the spiral, with a medium sized lad trapped inside it.  (Don't worry, I freed him after he was done cleaning the track)

http://www.flickr.co...N05/7666194912/

James

#18 Locomotive Annie

Locomotive Annie

  • A Perfect 317


    Posts: 508
    Joined: 14-October 12
    Member: 32535
    Country: New Zealand

Posted 23 February 2013 - 06:09 AM

Amazing video and great to see the spiral in operation.  You would have a need for a track cleaning car of some sort wouldn't you, - or is that how you keep small lads quiet while you're trying to get something else done?
Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image

Posted Image

#19 JamesP

JamesP

    Posts: 50
    Joined: 11-December 11
    Member: 23006
    Country: Canada

Posted 12 January 2014 - 12:14 AM

So, almost 2 years later, I present:



an unedited view of the layout.  When edited down, to make it into one trip around all the way down, it takes about 4:30 to travel from the start to the end.  Unfortunately, my computer is still too flakey to get it to work for editing.  At some time I may try with my son's Ipad to make a better edit of it...

James

#20 Doom2099

Doom2099

    Posts: 196
    Joined: 08-January 14
    Member: 118849

Posted 12 January 2014 - 07:31 AM

 JamesP, on 30 January 2012 - 08:34 AM, said:

The middle level is the staging yard for my OO scale railway, which runs interlaced through the lego in a couple of places.  It made the spiral an interesting construct, to say the least.

Posted Image

James

This just blew my mind!  Thanks for the pictures, and now the video of this outstanding layout.  There are a lot of great ideas on how to build setups using all 3 dimensions, instead of just focusing on a flat surface.  Thanks again!
Posted ImagePosted Image

#21 Phoxtane

Phoxtane

    Posts: 472
    Joined: 28-May 12
    Member: 28870
    Country: USA

Posted 12 January 2014 - 08:17 AM

It's interesting to see how Lego train layouts grow organically into the space around them, whereas more conventional model trains are very much planned out with great precision.
Why fix it when you can INNOVATE it?

#22 zephyr1934

zephyr1934

    Posts: 960
    Joined: 19-July 09
    Member: 6737

Posted 17 January 2014 - 05:07 AM

Hey, wait, you missed a spot... I think I saw a little bit of floor in the corner (grin). No, in all seriousness, very impressive.

#23 JamesP

JamesP

    Posts: 50
    Joined: 11-December 11
    Member: 23006
    Country: Canada

Posted 18 January 2014 - 03:15 AM

Na Zephyr, that's where the boys stand to run the trains !  I have to leave a clear path through the lego room for getting to the laundry room, as that is the door that we use mostly to get in & out of the house !  Next thing from a lego standpoint is probably putting up a small table (3x2 plates) for the falcon to sit in.  (grawwo, or something like that from Chewie ).  That, and taking buildings out to display at a range of VICLUG events.

James



Reply to this topic



  


0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users