105 replies to this topic

[Tragic Banjo]

Faefrost, on 16 April 2012 - 06:08 AM, said:

I think it is possible. Plus I think in many ways it would be desirable by a lot of parents. After all isn't that a large part of what has driven the sales of the City real space themed subjects for years? or even a ton of the regular Lego City sets (pretty much anything outside of the cops and robbers stuff)?

As far as classic space though? I can't help but think that that would be something more of a nostalgia trip. Something more targeted at the AFOL crowd. And as such might do best with an almost UCS type hyperdetailed update?

While a whole new line would probably be unlikely, a UCS Galaxy Explorer would be amazing. Or perhaps there could be Classic Space reboot sets released once a year D2C like the Modulars and Winter Village.

[Si-MOCs]

I merged the "redo classic space" into the discussion for possible space themes...

[Brickadeer]

I don't find a remake of the classic space theme very likely. I like a couple of "neo classic" models, but I would never spend money for them.

The point is that I find it really hard to think of something that the SW theme doesn't come up with. It has capital spaceships, small spaceships, different kind of speeders, dropships, dropships with walkers, walkers, animals/creatures/weird races, droids. After all, SW is the inspiration for all kinds of sci fi related themes.

[Commander Adama]

Brickadeer, on 17 April 2012 - 01:46 PM, said:

I don't find a remake of the classic space theme very likely. I like a couple of "neo classic" models, but I would never spend money for them.

The point is that I find it really hard to think of something that the SW theme doesn't come up with. It has capital spaceships, small spaceships, different kind of speeders, dropships, dropships with walkers, walkers, animals/creatures/weird races, droids. After all, SW is the inspiration for all kinds of sci fi related themes.

True but why just stop them now?
Lego should have their own spin on things

[Jargo]

Brickadeer, on 17 April 2012 - 01:46 PM, said:

After all, SW is the inspiration for all kinds of sci fi related themes.

I think you'll find that the designers on star wars are inspired by the wealth of sci-fi material outside of star wars. Isaac Asimov, Frank Herbert, Fritz Lang, Stanley Kubrick, Robert A Heinlen, Jules Verne, H G Wells, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle to name just a few. Then there's all the fantasy stuff and spaghetti westerns, suspense thrillers and historical tales.
All this stuff influenced people before during and after the Star Wars trilogy and continues to inspire people to this day. To create a space based them you can look anywhere to find a story. It's then a case of designing things to look futuristic and functional in a style you can hang the story on. that's all george lucas did. his design team are all influenced by a multitude of things. the star wars theme sitsin a bubble like any licensed theme. it's entirely separate from Lego in-house themes. Alien Conquest wasn't inspired by star wars it took colours from classic space and used them in a different way. the main inspiration was classic 50's sci-fi. Which has a wealth of ideas that Lego can tap into that are far removed from star wars.

For my prison idea I thought about Colditz and Alcatraz. Inescapable fortresses. I thought about reprinted 1950's and 1960's sci-fi comics I read as a kid in the early 1970's. The Shawshank Redemption. Original Star Trek. Ghost and horror stories. Interesting diverse stuff.
I just chose to give my idea a link to classic space as a different facet of it. Space police had to send the bad guys somewhere it's been a long time since pace visited an icey place. the original space logo is by far the best. bung it all in a melting pot with some new ideas and thoughts and Bob's your lobster.

[Nuke]

I don't know if this has been said or not, but I would love to see Insectoids reappear.

[Algernon]

Nuke, on 18 April 2012 - 01:07 AM, said:

I don't know if this has been said or not, but I would love to see Insectoids reappear.

Insectoids was underrated in my opinion. I may be biased because I grew up with them, but I always thought they were charmingly sinister. A similar kind of theme, like a modern evil alien race, could be really cool for 2013. I doubt LEGO would attempt it, but I'd be fully supportive if they did.

[Nuke]

Algernon, on 18 April 2012 - 02:24 AM, said:

Insectoids was underrated in my opinion. I may be biased because I grew up with them, but I always thought they were charmingly sinister. A similar kind of theme, like a modern evil alien race, could be really cool for 2013. I doubt LEGO would attempt it, but I'd be fully supportive if they did.

That is a wonderful idea, I would be behind it to.

[Brickadeer]

Brickenhead-town-dweller, on 18 April 2012 - 12:46 AM, said:

I think you'll find that the designers on star wars are inspired by the wealth of sci-fi material outside of star wars. Isaac Asimov, Frank Herbert, Fritz Lang, Stanley Kubrick, Robert A Heinlen, Jules Verne, H G Wells, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle to name just a few. Then there's all the fantasy stuff and spaghetti westerns, suspense thrillers and historical tales.
All this stuff influenced people before during and after the Star Wars trilogy and continues to inspire people to this day. To create a space based them you can look anywhere to find a story. It's then a case of designing things to look futuristic and functional in a style you can hang the story on. that's all george lucas did. his design team are all influenced by a multitude of things. the star wars theme sitsin a bubble like any licensed theme. it's entirely separate from Lego in-house themes. Alien Conquest wasn't inspired by star wars it took colours from classic space and used them in a different way. the main inspiration was classic 50's sci-fi. Which has a wealth of ideas that Lego can tap into that are far removed from star wars.

For my prison idea I thought about Colditz and Alcatraz. Inescapable fortresses. I thought about reprinted 1950's and 1960's sci-fi comics I read as a kid in the early 1970's. The Shawshank Redemption. Original Star Trek. Ghost and horror stories. Interesting diverse stuff.
I just chose to give my idea a link to classic space as a different facet of it. Space police had to send the bad guys somewhere it's been a long time since pace visited an icey place. the original space logo is by far the best. bung it all in a melting pot with some new ideas and thoughts and Bob's your lobster.

As far as I know the main responsible person for the visual design Star Wars is the recently passed Ralph McQuarrie. My impression is that he was strongly influenced by the "pulp culture" that started in the 1940s s, like Edmond Hamilton's writings. I'm not sure though that it is correct to hold that he was influenced by how these stories were visualized. But I don't think that's really important for the issue at hand.

Please do not get me wrong: I'm not arguing that Lego should not establish a new or expand a previous space theme. What I'm trying to argue is that it's difficult to come up with something that is an innovation, and that attracts potential customers.

In this regard, Alien Conquest is certainly different from former space themes. To me, it is rather an expansion of the town theme than a "real" space theme standing on its own.

For me, the Space Police theme is what comes closest to Classic Space so far. I like the figures, and I like most of the vehicles. I like your idea of a prison as well, basically becaused it can be expanded into different directions. (I would like to see more continuity between the Lego space themes, anyway).The advantage of a non-licence based space theme is that the designers are not bound to predesigned models. Rather, they can create vehicles and locations with various functions. And they can finish certain settings with a few waves of sets. One of the problem of Star Wars, on the other hand, is that it takes very long until a certain scene, figure, or vehicle makes it into a set.

Edited by Brickadeer, 18 April 2012 - 12:08 PM.

[johnnyvgoode]

Algernon, on 18 April 2012 - 02:24 AM, said:

Insectoids was underrated in my opinion. I may be biased because I grew up with them, but I always thought they were charmingly sinister. A similar kind of theme, like a modern evil alien race, could be really cool for 2013. I doubt LEGO would attempt it, but I'd be fully supportive if they did.

Although I'll admit that Insectoids had a very appealing design to me, I think that what I dislike about the theme is that it was mostly about small "vehicles". It would have been neat to have something like a base. Somehow, even if I like its style, I wasn't so attracted to the theme, and I think it's because of its emphasis. It just feels like there's nothing to hold everything together, in my opinion, but preferences are whimsical things.

[Faefrost]

Nom Carver, on 01 February 2012 - 05:04 PM, said:

how about starcraft?, i know is too much to ask for but we can still dream

now with the space marine that is coming

Sadly MegoBloks has the license for Starcraft. They picked it up along with the license for World of Warcraft and showed some samples at the NY Toy Fair.

I keep thinking that Lego would do well to go after a classic Heinlein Starship Troopers sort of theme. They now have the Space Marines. They have all these wonderful various sized bugs and spiders, such as the new Shelob and the stuff from the Pharoah's Quest line. Make some drop ships and APC's and there ya go. You could even blend some Insectoid styling s into the ships or transport mechanisms used by the bugs. Ready made cool space theme to compete with Halo and Starcraft.

Edited by Faefrost, 04 May 2012 - 04:57 PM.

[BrickBucket]

natelite, on 08 April 2012 - 09:41 PM, said:

Space Marines and the Nebular Pirates!

Space Marines - well, they look just like the CMF S7 galaxy patrol, maybe in diff color - blue/white or dark red/gold perhaps?

Nebular Pirates would be a mismash of heavily armed and armored gangster types. some would be green to cater to the space orks group. some in tan, some in purple (we're still missing dark purple heads), with alien prints.

we'll need alien prints for the good guys too...after all, not all humans are good guys and vice versa.

maybe reuse the purple pimper head in space police 3. that's a very good head mold since it is almost identical to a normal mf head.

Yes, great idea, Space Pirates vs Space Marines!  We have had a lot of aliens,robots, insects vs humans, but hardly any human vs human.  A pirate based space theme would be awesome! The imperials would be space marines, the pirates could have a blacktron style to them meshed with bandanas and futuristic pirate symbols

Faefrost, on 04 May 2012 - 04:55 PM, said:

Sadly MegoBloks has the license for Starcraft. They picked it up along with the license for World of Warcraft and showed some samples at the NY Toy Fair.

I keep thinking that Lego would do well to go after a classic Heinlein Starship Troopers sort of theme. They now have the Space Marines. They have all these wonderful various sized bugs and spiders, such as the new Shelob and the stuff from the Pharoah's Quest line. Make some drop ships and APC's and there ya go. You could even blend some Insectoid styling s into the ships or transport mechanisms used by the bugs. Ready made cool space theme to compete with Halo and Starcraft.

Yes a starship troops style theme would be great, and something new for Lego,  although I fear just like in Atlantis theme the monster models may not sell as well as the human counterparts, but it would be new! Definitly would love to see it though!

I do hope Lego continues developing it's own designs, not that I have anything against Star Wars, it's just it's much easier to create your own "original" sci-fi universe when using a Lego designed theme which doesn't come with any backstory or canon attached to it.  Like when you want to make a space ship but you don't want to use cool looking star wars helmets because you don't want ppl to think it's a star wars space ship. I just love that generic style of classic Lego because it leaves so much more to the imagination.

Edited by BrickBucket, 04 May 2012 - 05:27 PM.

[Faefrost]

BrickBucket, on 04 May 2012 - 05:18 PM, said:

Yes a starship troops style theme would be great, and something new for Lego,  although I fear just like in Atlantis theme the monster models may not sell as well as the human counterparts, but it would be new! Definitly would love to see it though!

The monsters / bad guys not selling as well isn't unique to Atlantis. It seems to happen in a lot of the 2 sided non licensed lines. Just look at Aliens Conquest. The big Hero HQ set seemed to do so much better than the alien saucers. It's a shame they really didn't have a low / mid priced hero ship in that line. Part of its failing. It needed a $30 ish ADF truck of some sort. Ninjago suffers from this even worse. Tons of those lime green fang pier sets languish while you are hard pressed to find the hero sets still on shelves. (except the ugly expensive flying boat.)

Part of the problem with the Lego created / non licensed stuff, is while they control the story it is a fairly hard process to get the buyer / user sympathetic with or choosing to role play as the villains. The licensed stuff gets away with it because the kid ( or childlike AFOL) has a strong point of reference to start with from the media source. They understand Stormtroopers. They've seen them move. But nbrain eating green aliens? Much harder sell. Whereas the heroic viewpoint is pretty much hard wired in to us.

This is where certain types of themes thrive or will thrive. Dino's does well because there are no real villain sets. It's heros against big lizards and the kids readily understand both well. Monster Hunters will flourish in this same sort of way ( the kids will understand the monsters. While not actually licensed we all know the wink and nudge. It will only be hurt by less cool vehicles than the spaceship lines.)

Just my 2c

[natelite]

not really. i think it's because the villains were badly designed. take the kingdoms sets for e.g. dragon knights sell much better than lion knights.

the skeletons and snakes look hedious and doesn't blend well with other minifig parts.

aliens from ADU, i like the big boss and the cyborg, but the rest are kinda meh...

if only they had interesting armors or helmets, then the theme will be so hot. like the new SW old republic sets - the sith has a really cool looking armor with oversized pauldrons. if the villains from the alien conquest or ninjago had those armors and helmets, they would sell like hotcakes.

[hjmediastudios]

Macoco, on 27 March 2012 - 07:03 AM, said:

That might be true, but to the date the CUUSOO site has made use of the "concepts" that gain the 10,000 supporters, if you take a look at the three CUUSOO products to date you will see that not one of them are exact reproductions but they just made use of the "concept" that was submitted. So you can just imagine, should the "Space Marines" project reach 10,000 and enter the review stage, the designers at TLG could easily decide to drop the helm, armor and carbine and just reuse the existing "Galaxy Patrol" CM. In new colors perhaps too.

My intention has always been that Lego would just use the CMF pieces if my project gets to 10k supporters... the reason the helmet and armor don't look like that now are because I modeled them off the leaked Series 7 picture, which was too fuzzy to make out details. I do think the helmet could do with a visor, though.

[natelite]

hjmediastudios, on 04 May 2012 - 07:57 PM, said:

My intention has always been that Lego would just use the CMF pieces if my project gets to 10k supporters... the reason the helmet and armor don't look like that now are because I modeled them off the leaked Series 7 picture, which was too fuzzy to make out details. I do think the helmet could do with a visor, though.

trans-color visor with decal prints! trans-orange is cool. let's hope they stick with it.

i also like the atlantis body wear except it seems to be lacking in pauldrons. add some pauldrons and it'll be a nice heavy armor version to the standard space marine helmet/armor combo.

[Faefrost]

natelite, on 04 May 2012 - 07:12 PM, said:

not really. i think it's because the villains were badly designed. take the kingdoms sets for e.g. dragon knights sell much better than lion knights.

the skeletons and snakes look hedious and doesn't blend well with other minifig parts.

aliens from ADU, i like the big boss and the cyborg, but the rest are kinda meh...

if only they had interesting armors or helmets, then the theme will be so hot. like the new SW old republic sets - the sith has a really cool looking armor with oversized pauldrons. if the villains from the alien conquest or ninjago had those armors and helmets, they would sell like hotcakes.

I still say it is something more than simply whether or not the designated villains look cool. It certainly helps. But it isn't an absolute. The Atlantis foes looked cool. The newer Space Police villains are some of the best Lego ever mde. But they still get outsold by the "hero" sets. The Dragon Knights work because good or bad there is still that element of empathy. The kids can naturally get inside the knights. But how well did the Troll sets do? The Dragon Knihts work for kids because it is essentially " these knights vs those knight" but those knights also get the wizards and dragons... " gimme!" All of the elements are starting from a well known and trodden path in the child or AFOL's mind. Whereas no matter how cool you make the minifigs, " tentacled green thing that eats brains" will still elicit a surprisingly high degree of "ick!" and " I don't wanna be that!" amongst the target audience. Much the same with generic bug people, generic evil snake ninja people, skeletons and battle droids, and underwater fish people. There is a subtle psychology going on there.

A successful theme needs to be able to feed that user empathy across all of its price points. And the villains need to be more or less accessory elements of the sets. ( ie dinosaurs, monster hunters, pharoahs quest, etc. well ok in MH it's the heros that are tha accessories, but that's a special case.)

Edited by Faefrost, 05 May 2012 - 02:54 AM.

[BrickBucket]

Faefrost, on 05 May 2012 - 02:44 AM, said:

I still say it is something more than simply whether or not the designated villains look cool. It certainly helps. But it isn't an absolute. The Atlantis foes looked cool. The newer Space Police villains are some of the best Lego ever mde. But they still get outsold by the "hero" sets. The Dragon Knights work because good or bad there is still that element of empathy. The kids can naturally get inside the knights. But how well did the Troll sets do? The Dragon Knihts work for kids because it is essentially " these knights vs those knight" but those knights also get the wizards and dragons... " gimme!" All of the elements are starting from a well known and trodden path in the child or AFOL's mind. Whereas no matter how cool you make the minifigs, " tentacled green thing that eats brains" will still elicit a surprisingly high degree of "ick!" and " I don't wanna be that!" amongst the target audience. Much the same with generic bug people, generic evil snake ninja people, skeletons and battle droids, and underwater fish people. There is a subtle psychology going on there.

A successful theme needs to be able to feed that user empathy across all of its price points. And the villains need to be more or less accessory elements of the sets. ( ie dinosaurs, monster hunters, pharoahs quest, etc. well ok in MH it's the heros that are tha accessories, but that's a special case.)

Yah I agree, it's not just cool looking bad guys, but ones the kids might be able to identify with, the dragon knights in kingdoms and pirates are a great example, because their cool and most importantly they are human,  so they sell well.  I'm not really crazy about the bad guys in Atlantis or Ninjago or even Space Police. As for Alien Conquest, I think the Alien sets where bad value for pieces and minifigs, and yah I agree not as cool as ADU for kids. I think lego should simply more intelligently predict that some sets with bad guys will sell less than the good guy's and limit the supply to avoid having all these sets sitting on the shelf, not an easy job, but I think  given past trends they really should be smarter about how much they produce.  Also they should make the bad factions more human, or like Faefrost said, make bad guys accessories  to a set instead of sets themselves.

[Puck]

All i'm saying is Doctor Who. Honestly, how much more spacey can you get?

-Puck

[Faefrost]

Puck, on 11 May 2012 - 10:02 PM, said:

All i'm saying is Doctor Who. Honestly, how much more spacey can you get?

-Puck

Sadly I think a reasonably obscure UK company already has the Dr Who construction set license. Their stuff has been shown off at Toy Fairs etc. Personally I don't like it and would much prefer Lego.

[Puck]

Faefrost, on 11 May 2012 - 10:48 PM, said:

Sadly I think a reasonably obscure UK company already has the Dr Who construction set license. Their stuff has been shown off at Toy Fairs etc. Personally I don't like it and would much prefer Lego.

Good Point, I have seen them and they are pretty bad. They some what look like MEGABL KS. But still, I mean, LEGO has a better chance of selling them if you ask me... ;)

-Puck

[DraikNova]

A Sci-Fi Fantasy combo, with space dragons, of course! Possibly with a sword composed out of magnetically attached components.

[Faefrost]

You know, I think they outright told us what the next theme may be. Just look at the name of the Series 7 minifig. Galaxy Patrol.  

Something more along the lines of AQ's ADF in space. With Galactic peacekeepers out defending humanity and keeping the assorted planets safe. A little harder and less cartoony than Space Police, with the possibility to tie together some of the other themes. Who gets sent to rescue those miners on Mars? Who responds to the alien invasion of earth? Who keeps the space lanes safe for the Mtrons? Who stands between the Space Police and not just Alien criminals, but alien Armies?

It would just be balanced enough where the series could have all of those Halo'esque Space Marine things like  a drop ship, or APC's, but without that completely brutal "space war is hell" undertone.

[johnnyvgoode]

Faefrost, on 23 May 2012 - 10:01 PM, said:

You know, I think they outright told us what the next theme may be. Just look at the name of the Series 7 minifig. Galaxy Patrol.  

Something more along the lines of AQ's ADF in space. With Galactic peacekeepers out defending humanity and keeping the assorted planets safe. A little harder and less cartoony than Space Police, with the possibility to tie together some of the other themes. Who gets sent to rescue those miners on Mars? Who responds to the alien invasion of earth? Who keeps the space lanes safe for the Mtrons? Who stands between the Space Police and not just Alien criminals, but alien Armies?

It would just be balanced enough where the series could have all of those Halo'esque Space Marine things like  a drop ship, or APC's, but without that completely brutal "space war is hell" undertone.

Well, we did get a Space Villain on Series 3, but no Blacktron 3!!!

Edited by johnnyvgoode, 24 May 2012 - 10:52 PM.

[LEGOman273]

Faefrost, on 23 May 2012 - 10:01 PM, said:

You know, I think they outright told us what the next theme may be. Just look at the name of the Series 7 minifig. Galaxy Patrol.  

Something more along the lines of AQ's ADF in space. With Galactic peacekeepers out defending humanity and keeping the assorted planets safe. A little harder and less cartoony than Space Police, with the possibility to tie together some of the other themes. Who gets sent to rescue those miners on Mars? Who responds to the alien invasion of earth? Who keeps the space lanes safe for the Mtrons? Who stands between the Space Police and not just Alien criminals, but alien Armies?

It would just be balanced enough where the series could have all of those Halo'esque Space Marine things like  a drop ship, or APC's, but without that completely brutal "space war is hell" undertone.

Um. . . Have you seen @hjmediastudios' "Space Marines!"?