37 replies to this topic

[Commander Red Hat]

On Stranger Tides, on 07 February 2012 - 01:48 PM, said:

Oh I am, Admiral B lives in the next town over

Cool, send him my regards when you see him!

[On Stranger Tides]

Captain Green Hair, on 07 February 2012 - 02:31 PM, said:

Cool, send him my regards when you see him!

LOl we hung out a few weeks ago, I'm glad someone like him lives 20 minutes away... here is a progress shot. I am, however not stepping it out. I just don't want to...

[On Stranger Tides]

Captain Green Hair, on 07 February 2012 - 02:31 PM, said:

Cool, send him my regards when you see him!

LOl we hung out a few weeks ago, I'm glad someone like him lives 20 minutes away... here is a progress shot. I am, however not stepping it out. I just don't want to...

[halfpenguinhalflego]

I too have noticed and abundance of Pirate ships/MOC's in general on this forum. However it doesn't bother me much, I can just stick a pirate flag on any ship and it becomes a Pirate one  

[SkaForHire]

kurigan, on 07 February 2012 - 09:24 AM, said:

A point to the detractors before this thread is likely to be closed: Historical accuracy is not the enemy of good fun or imagination. There is definitely an increased interest in accuracy (which has apparently been mistakenly perceived as entirely Napoleonic) on this forum as it provides for several benefits to a community as such. For one it generates an empirical standard by which to judge and associate projects by different builders. One can most definitely tell if their project is up to snuff by virtue of the same research they did in the creation of a given piece, or lack thereof for that matter. Attention to accuracy will also affect the reputation of a group, as a whole, positively even the pursuit is not unanimous. On lookers will think more highly of that group and even more will be attracted to a place where an education may be had. Since this is an adult group a certain level of discipline rather than pure fancy is reasonable to expect, even if only on occasion, from its members. There is another important point to be made, which does not seem to be universally understood by the example this thread offers. Builders bent on accuracy, like myself, are not opposed to fascistic builds, nor do we in any way impede builders with such aspirations (I’ve even commented rather encouragingly on a few fantastic projects I found quite outstanding). This entire thread can very easily be perceived as offensive and exclusive, which may account for why it has been so “smacked down”. I myself have found myself irrationally fuming at it more than once, however briefly. Honestly it seems the wisest course of action to me, to put this topic down entirely and simply do; encourage through action, rather than challenge a community already busy with its own pursuits.

I don't think anyone ever shot down historical accuracy here. I think that is pretty much what the thread was about, just the accuracy of a different era than Napoleonics. Actually, I don't even know if much was said about creating MOCs outside of the realistic. No one said don't build historically accurate models - the OP just said he wanted to see more from another era.

As for exclusive, I don't know why you would think that - anyone can discuss about the history of the genre and MOCing more Golden Age ships (circa 1680s to 1730s.) No one was left out.

BTW, to the post by Captain Green Hair - That is one smooth looking hull. I really like it, the lines really catch the eye, and it flows very nice. However, This thing really needs some topsails.

Admiral Croissant, on 07 February 2012 - 10:12 AM, said:

You're right about that, and I said it in a slightly rude manner. It wasn't my intention to shut this whole conversation.

However, even you said very recently " Anyway, on the topic of the forum, perhaps we need a competition to... " so you said you were being off topic.

This conversation started with the question why there weren't more Golden Age Pirate MOCs, then it turned into a discussion about the Golden Age of piracy. I liked it to that point, but the last two posts were a bit too much chit chat to me, so stepped in because at that point it often gets more and more off topic.

It wasn't a big deal, but perhaps I should have observed it a little longer. I did like the discussion about the Golden Age of pirates and I also like historical accuracy.




A contest is a good idea, the crew has discussed a lack of interest as well, and indeed a contest could change that.
However, it's hard to get enough dedicated crewmembers and at this moment we don't have enough funds to do it.
But we're still working on both things


True, and sometimes it's hard to determine the exact rules.
The problem is, this is a LEGO forum in the first place, and I think we also might lose interest of the public if we talk endlessly about the historical context. I mean we could have any discussion if it's somehow related to pirates, but this forum is about LEGO pirates so we do have to set some kind of limit.

Against my better judgement here, I am going to say a few more things - your point about what I said about off topic is exactly my point in the last post. Sometimes we will stray a bit. I don't think that should be unacceptable if it is related to the topic. That is what I meant about posts in the last year being closed, moved, or just shut down.  It is a bit tight on the control, that is all.

However, I appreciate that you recognized that your approach  might not be the best way to tell us to get back on topic. Like I said, I KNOW this is a hard volunteer duty.  I am not criticizing your work, just wanted the mods in general to allow more slack. I don't think one or two historical conversations over the course of a month is going to send anyone packing from the forum - it brings context to the site. And We could point out that there have been plenty of topics about certain styles of architecture or fortifications that actually had no Lego content in them at all until much later in the conversations. Or worse in my mind, one of those awful speculation threads that goes on forever about which sets we think they are going to release. Although related to Lego those go on forever and are just repetitive.

I definitely enjoy reading what some forum members have said about the types of uniforms and troops used during the Napoleonics. This has been helpful, but in the end they were not very Lego related until someone tried to replicate them with a minifig torso. I think these types of conversations enhance the site, not hinder it.

But again, not everyone will see eye to eye on this kind of topic. I thank you and the other staff for their work here, it is better to have a forum than not have forum, and we all appreciate that.

And lastly about contests, just let me know if you want help - I, and I am sure others, are willing to put some man-hours in to make this forum even better.

[kurigan]

My posts in this thread have been cautionary, attempts at advising a different course of action. In the original post repetition of terms such as "actually" and "no real", potentially inflammatory, are what spurred on my initial efforts. Tone does not translate to text and though I did come to realize what I figured was the original intent, it was only after first feeling offended and through later deliberation on the matter. In fact it is very exclusionary when you suggest that one era belongs and another does not; that’s the very definition of exclusion. As for, what I admit may be a bit of a “soap box speech” on my part, going on about accuracy, it was asked “Is it really necessary to go all historical here ? Etc.” No we have no actual need to, but why step into a conversation about apples only to suggest we all have an orange, but to cause further discord? I apologize if I’ve gotten a bit too loquacious, but I don’t feel unjustified. My advice remains the same, don’t ask or challenge others to do in your stead. Step up, fill the void and invite others to join you. Even more importantly, be careful how you present your proposals. Honestly take it from my experience, even the best intentions can be sorely misinterpreted from text. Check out this thread for which I still feel like a villain, if you don’t understand or believe me.



I’ll also offer a piece of perspective. Napoleonic era projects likely tend to be popular on account of the availability of information on the subject. One can find volumes of reference material for all things from that era. Much of the Golden Age is obscured by myth and legend, and even more simply isn’t readily available. The characters may also be of greater appeal. In the Golden Age, pirates, essentially bad guys, are the celebrated heroes. Men like Henry Morgan, or Blackbeard, though brutal in actuality, are built up as legend. In the Napoleonic era our heroes tend to come from the other side, men like Nelson and Cochran. Sometimes it’s fun to play the bad guy, but if you’re going to pour a year and more of your free time into a project, are you likely to follow fancy, or focus on a more lasting diversion? Though I would not suggest the formalized division of the community with guilds, I do wonder if we could use a few more “bad guys” so all our “good guys” would have something to do.

[SkaForHire]

kurigan, on 08 February 2012 - 08:32 AM, said:

My posts in this thread have been cautionary, attempts at advising a different course of action. In the original post repetition of terms such as "actually" and "no real", potentially inflammatory, are what spurred on my initial efforts. Tone does not translate to text and though I did come to realize what I figured was the original intent, it was only after first feeling offended and through later deliberation on the matter. In fact it is very exclusionary when you suggest that one era belongs and another does not; that’s the very definition of exclusion. As for, what I admit may be a bit of a “soap box speech” on my part, going on about accuracy, it was asked “Is it really necessary to go all historical here ? Etc.” No we have no actual need to, but why step into a conversation about apples only to suggest we all have an orange, but to cause further discord? I apologize if I’ve gotten a bit too loquacious, but I don’t feel unjustified. My advice remains the same, don’t ask or challenge others to do in your stead. Step up, fill the void and invite others to join you. Even more importantly, be careful how you present your proposals. Honestly take it from my experience, even the best intentions can be sorely misinterpreted from text. Check out this thread for which I still feel like a villain, if you don’t understand or believe me.



I’ll also offer a piece of perspective. Napoleonic era projects likely tend to be popular on account of the availability of information on the subject. One can find volumes of reference material for all things from that era. Much of the Golden Age is obscured by myth and legend, and even more simply isn’t readily available. The characters may also be of greater appeal. In the Golden Age, pirates, essentially bad guys, are the celebrated heroes. Men like Henry Morgan, or Blackbeard, though brutal in actuality, are built up as legend. In the Napoleonic era our heroes tend to come from the other side, men like Nelson and Cochran. Sometimes it’s fun to play the bad guy, but if you’re going to pour a year and more of your free time into a project, are you likely to follow fancy, or focus on a more lasting diversion? Though I would not suggest the formalized division of the community with guilds, I do wonder if we could use a few more “bad guys” so all our “good guys” would have something to do.

I don't want to fight over semantics with the group here, but your portion about netiquette is dead on - we often don't know how our words will be interpreted when it comes to tone. So I apologize if my writing was in any way offensive - I did not mean it that way. I did not see the original comment you quoted, but after rereading the first page of the thread I do see what you are talking about. I think he was kidding when he suggested that Napoleonics should go to Historical. Still, maybe we should refocus this thread towards the promotion of a wider range of building instead of one that feels like we are talking about exclusion.

With that being said, I would like to see challenges in both categories some day. As for what I said about a community build in a similar fashion to Historica, I don't think such a thing would divide the forum. It seems that it is pretty much uniting a lot of different builders over in Historical. I would suggest to keep it in a separate MOC forum so that people have the choice to read it or not when looking at MOCs. Historica was a mess when it was in the normal Historical forum. I am also not proposing an exact copy of what they have going over there - I am just saying we should take a lot of the same ideas. 1) A long term community build. 2) Some competition 3) freedom of expression in the community build to keep everyone interested.  I understand that is not everyone's cup of tea, since many like to stick to historical accuracy - and we just really couldn't run a simulation based on history (right?) because of the complicated matters of slavery, indigenous population destruction, and  the Eurocentric values of the age.  So I am really just throwing ideas out here to get a little more permanent action going in here.   I will leave these thoughts on this note - I have noticed that there have been quite a few people who joined Eurobricks just to participate in Historica. They seemed to range from long term lurker to friends of friends or just people who heard about it on other sites. If we can pull 20 new pirate builders into the forum, would that not be a boon to the community?

As the good Admiral said, man hours are hard to come by on these projects (and money in some cases!) So contests and promotions take a lot of effort and time to develop. I look forward to seeing what comes next.

And if help is needed, well sir, I am here to do my duty if need be. Just let me know.

[Brickfigurines]

support this on lego cuusoo

http://lego.cuusoo.com/ideas/view/6855

[On Stranger Tides]

Brickfigurines, on 09 February 2012 - 07:16 AM, said:

support this on lego cuusoo

http://lego.cuusoo.com/ideas/view/6855

Quit spamming, I want POTC not pirates anyway...

[Derfel Cadarn]

I spent my first few EB years in this forum and it was great fun, met a lot of great people. On Stranger Tides Idea of a Piratical group project like what we have over at the history forum is a great idea. It would probably work best as a Golden age of Piracy set up, although I suppose it wouldn't have to be historically accurate. Something similar to the world of POTC, that we members could still build napoleonic ships as well as classic pirate ones.  It's definitely something the pirate forum should look into. I'm sure all the regular forum members would all chip in and come up with ideas and create maps. I would definitely join in, however I am running a guild in the history forum which is hard work, so it would be great to be just a normal builder just building pirate mocs for what ever pirate group I was in.  I think this should happen, I would be happy to start off a thread and list some ideas. Its up to the mods.

[Admiral Croissant]

Right now unfortunately we're quite short of manpower and funds, and it would be better to wait until the historia guild thing is over so we'll get more builders   Quite a lot of people on the historical forum also visit the Pirates forum.

However, I like the idea very much and personally I'd like to have a guild thing here. So feel free to come up with some ideas

[SkaForHire]

Admiral Croissant, on 14 February 2012 - 01:09 PM, said:

Right now unfortunately we're quite short of manpower and funds, and it would be better to wait until the historia guild thing is over so we'll get more builders   Quite a lot of people on the historical forum also visit the Pirates forum.

However, I like the idea very much and personally I'd like to have a guild thing here. So feel free to come up with some ideas

It sounds like although the administrators of Historica have only committed to 1 whole year, that the event may go on indefinitely - at least that was what I picked up over the last couple months. I think the support base will be there for them to do so.

As far as I know, so far there has not been any real world prizes given out in Historica. So I don't think money would be too much of a problem, as there are not going to be prizes in the foreseeable future (Although I could see the value of giving prizes to entice more participation - Perhaps DC could let us know if the administrators of Historica are going to eventually have prizes, so we can do a comparison?)

As for manpower that is understandable. Although I believe at least 2 of the 4 guild leaders are not moderators over there, (I could be totally wrong with that). So they did call upon some of the laymen of the forum to help build the competition. With that being said, I can volunteer to be a faction leader and to help get something like this going. I would just prefer it didn't launch for another month or so because of my personal schedule. But that could give us a lot of time to cultivate the project.  I think we would need two leaders for each faction, as I think that one of the high stresses of the Historica is the amount of time the guild leaders have to spend sorting and organizing. With cutting that duty in half, it is more likely to find people who are a)willing and b)have the time.  So, we would probably need 8 volunteers to help run factions when it started. We probably only need 4 or 5 to get the project started and hammer out details and can bring on the other administrators when it launched.

I think there is a general process to get the ball rolling.

1)Start an exploratory post - throwing ideas out there about this, and letting the community discuss it for two weeks.
2)after a week of discussion, pole the forum to find out interest. Also, find 4-5 volunteers to develop the project.
3) If interest is substantial, go ahead into the project development phase.
4) Open up a "map making" competition (Totally stealing that from CC's version of Historica that they are in the middle of creating right now)
5) Release the rules / terms / timeline of the competition to the public. Allow them to start signing up with their sig figs.
6) Begin the event.

I can volunteer to take point on this. I just want moderator support and approval before doing anything - since a project like this would mean that we would probably have to have a sub-forum for project related MOCs (Although, I suppose we may be able to get away with just using the MOC forum). I also don't want to be supreme leader, this should be a council ran event, like Historica. No one person should be vital to the project that if they bow out after 6 months the whole thing comes crashing down.

So, if we want, I will gladly write up a starter exploratory post  and keep tabs on it this weekend.   Just let me know.

Edited by SkaForHire, 15 February 2012 - 03:17 AM.

[Admiral Croissant]

I've had some talking with the crew, and there seem to be more problems due to which we can't organize it right now.
However, there will be contests in the future, and it's good to hear that we can count on your help when we start one.