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132 replies to this topic  – Started by SuperSirLink , Jan 11 2012 02:29 AM

#76 Foremast Jack

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Posted 27 January 2012 - 05:28 PM

View PostSuperSirLink, on 27 January 2012 - 05:53 AM, said:

... I increased the angle of the spirtbow mast, which allowed me to raise the figure...

I think it's too high now, :tongue: but it's not that bad... so keep it if you want.


View PostFrank Brick Wright, on 27 January 2012 - 04:01 PM, said:

I also like to see that tan colour in the deck

I lol'd.  :pir_laugh2:

I do agree with Frank on the lamps, they seem a bit large with this size of ship.
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They'll think you weak; despise you in the end."
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#77 SuperSirLink

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Posted 28 January 2012 - 12:05 AM

View PostForemast Jack, on 27 January 2012 - 05:28 PM, said:

I think it's too high now, :tongue: but it's not that bad... so keep it if you want.

If you look at the unicorn it is at a steeper angle than some of the other ships.  It is the only way to get the figurehead up higher... I may be able to bring the angle down a little more.  I am using one of older technic 2 piece joints to set the custom angle...
Reworked the lanterns... Still working on the bow... I wasn't 100% sold on it.  It has been the part of the ship I have reworked more than anything else...  

Is it just me or is the brickshelf not loading for anyone else?

#78 Foremast Jack

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Posted 28 January 2012 - 02:19 AM

They have maintenance every so often, but it should say it's down for maintenance if that's the case.

Took a look at the model again, and yes you're right it's pretty steep.
"You don't make friends with the foremast jacks, lad.
They'll think you weak; despise you in the end."
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#79 SuperSirLink

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Posted 28 January 2012 - 02:37 AM

View PostForemast Jack, on 28 January 2012 - 02:19 AM, said:

They have maintenance every so often, but it should say it's down for maintenance if that's the case.

Took a look at the model again, and yes you're right it's pretty steep.
Figured as much... Made (what I think) is some pretty good progress on the bow...  I think the 5th time is the charm!  :pir-tongue:

#80 Foremast Jack

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Posted 28 January 2012 - 06:04 AM

I don't know. Every time I go back to a ship I've been working on in LDD I find something to "improve." I honestly think it'll never be done till I just build the damn thing in real life.
"You don't make friends with the foremast jacks, lad.
They'll think you weak; despise you in the end."
                           - Captain Jack Aubrey

#81 SuperSirLink

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 06:42 PM

View PostForemast Jack, on 28 January 2012 - 06:04 AM, said:

I don't know. Every time I go back to a ship I've been working on in LDD I find something to "improve." I honestly think it'll never be done till I just build the damn thing in real life.
That's what I am afraid of... So I think I am about ready to "stick a fork in it" and start generating the parts list and get some of these parts orders in prep of the physical build...

Will post some pics once the bricklink is back up...

Edit:  Looks like the dark red, might be out... Not having much luck finding the parts on bricklink...

Edited by SuperSirLink, 29 January 2012 - 11:48 PM.


#82 SuperSirLink

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 03:19 AM

Ok now that Brickshelf is back up (and appears to be stable)  here is an update... Made lots of progress and think this is 99% final.  Will more than likely make subtle alterations as the build progresses...

Got my first got a few more bricklink orders and should have enough to start the lower deck...  Took out any "non existent" parts, hence the color changes...

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edit: yes, i know there would not have been beds...  but I didn't want to mess with hammocks...  :pir_laugh2:

edit2: added brick built flags... by the time I add the parts that I can't in LDD, I will be over 5000 parts!
Posted Image

Edited by SuperSirLink, 04 February 2012 - 03:56 AM.


#83 SuperSirLink

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 02:38 AM

Just a small update to show progress...

After several bricklink orders arriving I started the lower deck and hull...

Posted Image

More to come of coarse...  :pir-blush:

#84 poud

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 08:11 AM

Amazing ship ! Really nice. I love the actual shape and design. Besides, The colour scheme is very good ! Waiting to see the next upgrade

#85 SuperSirLink

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 04:46 AM

Got bored waiting for bricklink orders to arrive...  :pir_laugh2:   Began thinking about how to deal with the fact that the bottom of the ship didn't represent the water line...

Came up with two options of dealing with this... Would like to know what everyone thinks.  Should I use either of these two ideas?  Would love your feedback!

Inspired by Siercon and Coral's water...
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Edited by SuperSirLink, 22 February 2012 - 12:55 AM.


#86 Horatio

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 05:35 AM

Actually, the brown hull pieces would be below the waterline. I think that you should add a brown keel on the bottom- then she would be complete. The white portion in the 2nd option is not necessary IMO. What would also be really cool is if you did something like these:
Posted Image

out of legos to support the ship (those fishes, there). Then you could lift her out anytime you wanted.
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#87 SuperSirLink

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 02:10 PM

View PostHoratio, on 20 February 2012 - 05:35 AM, said:

Actually, the brown hull pieces would be below the waterline. I think that you should add a brown keel on the bottom- then she would be complete. The white portion in the 2nd option is not necessary IMO. What would also be really cool is if you did something like these:
Posted Image

out of legos to support the ship (those fishes, there). Then you could lift her out anytime you wanted.
All of the brown, or just to the slopes (which is where i was ruffly placeing it).

I am loosley basing it on this (Unicorn 1665), hence the white.

If I build the full keel, I would definitely build a base.  That one is pretty cool.

Edited by SuperSirLink, 20 February 2012 - 02:13 PM.


#88 Bart

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 07:13 PM

I would definitely go with the blue baseplate. It makes it look more alive.
It is also something I haven't seen done much or even at all in Lego, while I have seen this some times in 'real' ship models (made of wood e.g.)

Going with the blue baseplate also is a bit easier then making the complex shape of the under water part of the ship.

Or if you have time and effort to spare you could make them both. A full hull model which can be placed on a base which makes the model appear to be in the water.

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#89 kurigan

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 01:05 AM

The "brown" portion on the model pictured is actually copper plating. The bottom of a wooden ship’s hull, the portion below the water line, needs to be coated in something to keep critters from attaching themselves. On older ships, a lime based white wash was conventional, but by the 19th century copper plating became more popular, especially on war ships. Without some sort of coating, plants and animals would attach and bore their way into the hull, slowing the ship down while destroying her.

The Lego pre-fab hulls pieces were never intended to be part of a "full hull" model plan. Their curvature is too abrupt, bending in ward too much before cutting off at the waterline. It would look far less "ship like" if the pieces were contoured to scale, and since TLG sets are in no way intended to be models the decision was made to make more dramatic shapes. If you intend to make a "full hull" model I would suggest brick building it in its entirety. The concept you shared, with white bricks added below the pre-fab hulls, just looks awkward. IMO she looks just fine as a "water line" model, and think you should stick with it. If you don't like the blue Legos, consider using a mirror.

#90 SuperSirLink

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 03:25 AM

View Postkurigan, on 21 February 2012 - 01:05 AM, said:

The concept you shared, with white bricks added below the pre-fab hulls, just looks awkward. IMO she looks just fine as a "water line" model, and think you should stick with it. If you don't like the blue Legos, consider using a mirror.

I agree, it didn't really look "right" to me... But like I said, I was bored...  :pir-tongue:  I have a lot of admiration for those who have done complete brick built hulls... It is really challenging to design a structure that curves 3 different ways...  :pir-cry_sad:

Having said that, the water moc up is growing on me.  So I am still wondering where the water line should be...

Posted Image

I was setting it at the line labeled "C", am I far off?

I am guessing that by looking at my reference ship would have been just below the white (as you stated would have been for hull protection).

Edited by SuperSirLink, 22 February 2012 - 12:53 AM.


#91 Frank Brick Wright

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 09:00 AM

The point here is that you built a deck under the batteries deck. I don't think that it is possible to build a deck under the gun's deck in pre-fabs in a water-line model. I'm not very sure either about this being a water-line model.

An average vessel would have that deck you build there wit something corresponding to 4-5 bricks high. You built it with 6, if I am not mistaken. This makes extremely hard to get the water-line look. Now if you check this picture below you will see that even if your 1-stud prow technique is quite interesting it looks wrong, i.e. the curvature is done in the wrong way. Also your prow should go higher; I think if you change this part of the ship you will be able to get a fantastic water-line look, since the rest of the ship is amazing (especially the stern).

Posted Image

A ship is floating in the harbour now,

The wind is hovering o'er the mountain's brow;

There is a path on the sea's azure floor,

No keel has ever ploughed that path before

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#92 Sebeus I

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 02:05 PM

I use this simple rule to determine the waterline for tumblehome ships;
The waterline is more or less at the widest point at a cross section in the middle of the ship.

check out this Plan.
Ok, I know this ship is fictive and not realistic at many points but you can see at the right on the picture where the waterline is located. Keep in mind though that the keel is not present on this ship, it's not a complete ship, still, the waterline is located where it should be located as if it was a complete ship.

For your ship I'd say the waterline is around the tan line under the gunports (that's higher that "D" ), because the cabin is a bit low I'd lower the waterline a bit.
IMO it would be a bad Idea to turn this nice ship into a waterline model, especially because there no curve in the ship.

Edited by Sebeus Iniwum, 21 February 2012 - 02:09 PM.

Posted Image

#93 Bart

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 03:29 PM

View PostSebeus Iniwum, on 21 February 2012 - 02:05 PM, said:

(...)
For your ship I'd say the waterline is around the tan line under the gunports (that's higher that "D" ), because the cabin is a bit low I'd lower the waterline a bit.
(...)

If you would do that I would extend the rudder up so it still comes out of the water. Usually the top of the rudder would even stick up trough the 'Counter' (hollow arced part below the lights) where inside the rudder would connect to the tiller.

Imo this is not correctly drawn in the 'Vertical Section of the Frigate "Novara"' Image above, the whole tiller (or Helm) is missing.

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#94 SuperSirLink

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 03:40 PM

View PostFrank Brick Wright, on 21 February 2012 - 09:00 AM, said:

The point here is that you built a deck under the batteries deck. I don't think that it is possible to build a deck under the gun's deck in pre-fabs in a water-line model. I'm not very sure either about this being a water-line model.

An average vessel would have that deck you build there wit something corresponding to 4-5 bricks high. You built it with 6, if I am not mistaken. This makes extremely hard to get the water-line look. Now if you check this picture below you will see that even if your 1-stud prow technique is quite interesting it looks wrong, i.e. the curvature is done in the wrong way. Also your prow should go higher; I think if you change this part of the ship you will be able to get a fantastic water-line look, since the rest of the ship is amazing (especially the stern).


View PostSebeus Iniwum, on 21 February 2012 - 02:05 PM, said:

I use this simple rule to determine the waterline for tumblehome ships;
The waterline is more or less at the widest point at a cross section in the middle of the ship.


For your ship I'd say the waterline is around the tan line under the gunports (that's higher that "D" ), because the cabin is a bit low I'd lower the waterline a bit.
IMO it would be a bad Idea to turn this nice ship into a waterline model, especially because there no curve in the ship.

Thanks for the feedback guys!  I am still trying to make sure I understand.  When you refer to a "waterline model" in context to a prefab hull, the waterline is typically the surface the hull is sitting on, correct?  Which mine is not, since I built a deck under the gun deck.  As I am waiting for parts and reviewing the design, I began to wonder if that would look out of place.   For me having the interior was a big part of this project, so that what started me to wonder how to make it more appealing from the outside.  That is where I came up with the two concept.  Building out the full hull would make the question of where the water line is, irrelevant.  But that doesnt look right, and a brick built hull is more of a challenge than I want to under take right now. (I do want to try my hand at that someday, but I will save it for another ship).  The other being to build the water, thus removing the uncertanty of where the water line was.  Thinking there was I can have the best of both worlds, interior detail in a prefab hull, and not have it look silly when viewed from the outside.

Sebeus, when you say not to make it into a waterline model, are you saying not to build the base (thus hiding the prefab hull) or do you mean not to alter the design so that the bottom is the waterline?  I am not to clear on that.

Frank,  I see what you mean about the prow.  The curve should start closer to the waterline.  Think mine is too straight, yes?


Thanks for the feedback, absoutley taking it to heart.  While I am not trying to base this on a historical ship (and not worried about being 100% accurate), I still want it to look like it fits.

#95 Sebeus I

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 05:23 PM

I define a waterline model as a model where only that part is build which is not submerged,
Like this;
Posted Image
This ship will be ideal for a pirate layout because it can be placed directly on the "water" (blue baseplates)
IMO a prefab build ship can never become a waterline model because of the abrupt curvature.
So what I really mean is what you're doing so far is great, making a waterline model of it would take away too many cool features of your ship.
Overall I think your ship fits very well already.
Posted Image

#96 SuperSirLink

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 06:58 PM

View PostBart, on 21 February 2012 - 03:29 PM, said:

If you would do that I would extend the rudder up so it still comes out of water.
I actual did that, but I dont think you can tell from the pics.

Thanks, Sebeus. Thats very helpful.  :pir-classic:

This is great feedback guys!

So I think I will focus some more time on the prow.  I think I might build the water for when I want to MOC a scene.  I designed it so the ship will lift right out (didnt alter the ship any , except the rudder).  I think a nice happy medium would be to set the water line at line "D" of that pic I posted. (which is where I think it will be once I fill in with the 1x1s)

Hopefull some more bricklink orders will start arriving soon, so I can get some more pics of real brick posted.

#97 Frank Brick Wright

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 09:47 PM

I'm currently having an issue posting pictures so I can't show precisely what I mean. But it is easy to explain.

A normal ship has the prow curve with two distinctive and opposite curves. It is easy to see here. The ship gets a curve turning inward and then outward, if seen from the bottom to the top. Yours appears to be only inward. It was to that that I was referring to. Posted Image

Posted Image

A ship is floating in the harbour now,

The wind is hovering o'er the mountain's brow;

There is a path on the sea's azure floor,

No keel has ever ploughed that path before

(Percy Bysshe Shelley)


MOCPages account, Flickr and Brickshelf


#98 SuperSirLink

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 12:52 AM

View PostFrank Brick Wright, on 21 February 2012 - 09:47 PM, said:

A normal ship has the prow curve with two distinctive and opposite curves. It is easy to see here. The ship gets a curve turning inward and then outward, if seen from the bottom to the top. Yours appears to be only inward. It was to that that I was referring to.

Thanks that helps alot!  I think I realized what was wrong with mine, I had the curve bowing out toward the top, but it was above the bottom of what is going to be my bow spirit.  (I don't have the curves for it in due to LDD limitations)

Here is how I had it:
Posted Image

Here is version, err 6 maybe  :pir_laugh2:
Posted Image

How is this?  Do I need to drop the curve down?

#99 Frank Brick Wright

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 09:18 AM

That's it Posted Image Now it looks perfect

A ship is floating in the harbour now,

The wind is hovering o'er the mountain's brow;

There is a path on the sea's azure floor,

No keel has ever ploughed that path before

(Percy Bysshe Shelley)


MOCPages account, Flickr and Brickshelf


#100 SuperSirLink

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 01:38 PM

View PostFrank Brick Wright, on 22 February 2012 - 09:18 AM, said:

That's it Posted Image Now it looks perfect
Cool!   :pir-sweet: Thanks for the help with that!




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