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132 replies to this topic  – Started by SuperSirLink , Jan 11 2012 02:29 AM

#26 Foremast Jack

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 12:05 AM

View PostSuperSirLink, on 16 January 2012 - 11:48 PM, said:

How about the distance the foremast is from the bow, is it too far back?  Looking at the references I am using, it is kinda hard to tell...

I'd really like a picture side-on to really be able to say if the foremast is too far one way or the other.
"You don't make friends with the foremast jacks, lad.
They'll think you weak; despise you in the end."
                           - Captain Jack Aubrey

#27 SuperSirLink

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 12:19 AM

View PostForemast Jack, on 17 January 2012 - 12:05 AM, said:

I'd really like a picture side-on to really be able to say if the foremast is too far one way or the other.
Here ya go...
Posted Image

Im still working on the bow... But I think the foremast has to come forward more, but see what you think...

Edited by SuperSirLink, 17 January 2012 - 12:19 AM.


#28 Foremast Jack

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 12:44 AM

View PostSuperSirLink, on 17 January 2012 - 12:19 AM, said:

Here ya go...
Posted Image

Im still working on the bow... But I think the foremast has to come forward more, but see what you think...

Thanks for the picture. Now take this with a grain of salt, but based on a generalized plan of frigates it actually needs to come aft just a bit. Typically speaking the fore mast lay betwixt the second and third gunports. (Again be hesitant using the gun-ports as a measurement marker, as the number of guns can have an effect on this) Is there a particular ship you're basing yours on? Or at least, do you know how many guns you plan to afford to the gun-deck? This would help a lot.
"You don't make friends with the foremast jacks, lad.
They'll think you weak; despise you in the end."
                           - Captain Jack Aubrey

#29 SuperSirLink

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 12:52 AM

I am very loosely basing my design on this:
http://www.modelship...-Unicorn_II.htm

I am aiming (no pun intended) for 11 gun ports on each side of the gun deck...

PS: I can't find those flat hinges in LDD...

#30 Foremast Jack

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 01:04 AM

View PostSuperSirLink, on 17 January 2012 - 12:52 AM, said:

PS: I can't find those flat hinges in LDD...

Do a search for part number 73983 or "hinge plate"

View PostSuperSirLink, on 17 January 2012 - 12:52 AM, said:

I am very loosely basing my design on this:
http://www.modelship...-Unicorn_II.htm

I am aiming (no pun intended) for 11 gun ports on each side of the gun deck...

Oh okay. I didn't realize you were making something so old. Based on that model; I'd say, "Yes, a little forward wouldn't go amiss."

I look forward to seeing how you make the figurehead. I can't imagine a unicorn to be very easy. :wink:
"You don't make friends with the foremast jacks, lad.
They'll think you weak; despise you in the end."
                           - Captain Jack Aubrey

#31 SuperSirLink

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 02:03 AM

View PostForemast Jack, on 17 January 2012 - 01:04 AM, said:

Do a search for part number 73983 or "hinge plate"



Oh okay. I didn't realize you were making something so old. Based on that model; I'd say, "Yes, a little forward wouldn't go amiss."

I look forward to seeing how you make the figurehead. I can't imagine a unicorn to be very easy. :wink:

I am going to use the mermaid from Brickbeard's ship as the figurehead.  Matching that ship to the t would be quite a challenge.  The round gun ports would be cool, but I am not aware of a inverted arch (unless they created one recently, I can't keep up with the new elements)

My goal for this ship is to keep with a design that would place it in the peak pirate era (late 17th century).  I am not going to do a well deck though... But I do want to do an ornate angular stern like that ship.

Hopefully once it is done, it will be different than most other ships I have seen posted here and on the brickshelf.  Though I would never claim 100% originality (I am sure someone else has thought of these concepts before I).

Here is a slightly reworked bow, I redid the grey layer, but kept the overall curve I had.  The only thing I don't like about this layout is the black curves that stick into the grey layer...  But overall I like it better than the previous version.  Now to fix the other side...

Posted Image

#32 Foremast Jack

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 02:13 AM

View PostSuperSirLink, on 17 January 2012 - 02:03 AM, said:

I am going to use the mermaid from Brickbeard's ship as the figurehead.  Matching that ship to the t would be quite a challenge.  The round gun ports would be cool, but I am not aware of a inverted arch (unless they created one recently, I can't keep up with the new elements)

My goal for this ship is to keep with a design that would place it in the peak pirate era (late 17th century).  I am not going to do a well deck though... But I do want to do an ornate angular stern like that ship.

Hopefully once it is done, it will be different than most other ships I have seen posted here and on the brickshelf.  Though I would never claim 100% originality (I am sure someone else has thought of these concepts before I).

Here is a slightly reworked bow, I redid the grey layer, but kept the overall curve I had.  The only thing I don't like about this layout is the black curves that stick into the grey layer...  But overall I like it better than the previous version.  Now to fix the other side...

Posted Image

Whilst the bow doesn't look quite like what I'm used to in a LEGO ship, I think the direction you've progressed is a marked improvement.

Again with the well deck!!  :pir_bawling: Had a discussion not too long ago about this name. Check this thread if you're bored.
"You don't make friends with the foremast jacks, lad.
They'll think you weak; despise you in the end."
                           - Captain Jack Aubrey

#33 SuperSirLink

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 03:25 AM

View PostForemast Jack, on 17 January 2012 - 02:13 AM, said:

Whilst the bow doesn't look quite like what I'm used to in a LEGO ship, I think the direction you've progressed is a marked improvement.

Again with the well deck!!  :pir_bawling: Had a discussion not too long ago about this name. Check this thread if you're bored.
:) Take it that is not the right term... :)  I will review it...  (so is that part the "waist-deck"?)

Yes! that is exactly what I am going for!   :pir-sweet:

How about version 3!  This I think really captures what I was going for and removes the blocky-ness.  Thanks for the suggestion Sebeus!

Now hopefully those parts are made in dark red...

Posted Image
Posted Image

Now I will move the foremast closer to the bow, but that might require relocating the brig...

#34 Foremast Jack

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 04:43 AM

View PostSuperSirLink, on 17 January 2012 - 03:25 AM, said:

(so is that part the "waist-deck"?)

Now I will move the foremast closer to the bow, but that might require relocating the brig...

The deck is the main-deck or weather deck... that open, central part is the waist.

By "brig" I assume you're referring to the area used to secure prisoners? (Brig is a more modern, U.S. term, but I don't guess it really matters)
"You don't make friends with the foremast jacks, lad.
They'll think you weak; despise you in the end."
                           - Captain Jack Aubrey

#35 Foremast Jack

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 05:09 AM

View PostSuperSirLink, on 17 January 2012 - 02:03 AM, said:

Matching that ship to the t would be quite a challenge.  The round gun ports would be cool, but I am not aware of a inverted arch (unless they created one recently, I can't keep up with the new elements)

I don't think they have an inverted arch small enough to work but that doesn't mean you can't invert one yourself. :wink:

Posted Image
"You don't make friends with the foremast jacks, lad.
They'll think you weak; despise you in the end."
                           - Captain Jack Aubrey

#36 SuperSirLink

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 05:48 AM

View PostForemast Jack, on 17 January 2012 - 05:09 AM, said:

I don't think they have an inverted arch small enough to work but that doesn't mean you can't invert one yourself. :wink:

Posted Image
Brilliant! what part are you using to mate them together?

#37 Foremast Jack

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 05:56 AM

View PostSuperSirLink, on 17 January 2012 - 05:48 AM, said:

Brilliant! what part are you using to mate them together?

Posted Image

This will leave a stud sticking out the back. I'd use it to mount Posted Image on, and stick a cannon ram-rod or swab in, if you can't find a better use.. or a different technique all together.
"You don't make friends with the foremast jacks, lad.
They'll think you weak; despise you in the end."
                           - Captain Jack Aubrey

#38 SuperSirLink

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 11:19 PM

View PostForemast Jack, on 17 January 2012 - 05:56 AM, said:

Posted Image

This will leave a stud sticking out the back. I'd use it to mount Posted Image on, and stick a cannon ram-rod or swab in, if you can't find a better use.. or a different technique all together.
Duh, why didn't I think of that!  Excellent idea...  I might experiment and see how if I can't pull off round gun ports after all...

#39 Foremast Jack

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 12:06 AM

View PostSuperSirLink, on 17 January 2012 - 11:19 PM, said:

Duh, why didn't I think of that!  Excellent idea...  I might experiment and see how if I can't pull off round gun ports after all...

I'm glad to hear it. I really don't think it should be too difficult. When I was knocking up that little section in LDD I purposefully made it to match a section of gunwale from your pictures.

Went ahead and made a copy of one section of your gunwale using the technique I would use. This is an all but perfect blending of what you have and how I would adapt it. (this version is 2 plates taller than what you have). I leave its use entirely up to you.

Posted Image

Posted Image
"You don't make friends with the foremast jacks, lad.
They'll think you weak; despise you in the end."
                           - Captain Jack Aubrey

#40 SuperSirLink

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 03:37 AM

Very nice...  Slight variation:
Posted Image

I have to rework the walls though... with this design, I am only going to get 7 cannons per side...
Posted Image

Edited by SuperSirLink, 18 January 2012 - 03:54 AM.


#41 Foremast Jack

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 03:57 AM

Good work reducing the height. Might I suggest you think about brick-built gun-port covers?

Posted Image
"You don't make friends with the foremast jacks, lad.
They'll think you weak; despise you in the end."
                           - Captain Jack Aubrey

#42 SuperSirLink

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 04:07 AM

Yeah, that is definatly on the task list...  I don't like how short those look...

#43 Foremast Jack

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 04:14 AM

View PostSuperSirLink, on 18 January 2012 - 03:37 AM, said:

I have to rework the walls though... with this design, I am only going to get 7 cannons per side...

Well I don't think that's too bad really, seeing how your LEGO ship is only about 60% of what the scaled length should be (based on your model the Unicorn). Unfortunately you can't just add length because the length to width ratio will be off. You could see about building gun-ports in the bow quarters. That would add another two overall. Plus once you get aft a bit more, you may find room for two more.

View PostSuperSirLink, on 18 January 2012 - 04:07 AM, said:

Yeah, that is definatly on the task list...  I don't like how short those look...

I'm sure the flag pieces are too short for your liking, but are you also referring to my suggestive brick-built covers? I did want to make them 3x3 (as opposed to 2x2) by didn't put a lot of time into the problem. I want to make sure you feel this is your ship.
"You don't make friends with the foremast jacks, lad.
They'll think you weak; despise you in the end."
                           - Captain Jack Aubrey

#44 SuperSirLink

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 05:40 AM

View PostForemast Jack, on 18 January 2012 - 04:14 AM, said:

I'm sure the flag pieces are too short for your liking, but are you also referring to my suggestive brick-built covers? I did want to make them 3x3 (as opposed to 2x2) by didn't put a lot of time into the problem. I want to make sure you feel this is your ship.
I was referring to the flag pieces... they just don't seem right... out of place on the round gun ports...  There is a 2x3 plate with holder that looks like it might work... Will play more with that tomorrow.  No worries, I appreciate the input.   :pir-sweet:  Sometimes it just takes another set of eyes on something!

Here is where I am going to leave it for the night...  Over all I like it, Bringing the guns closer together will let me hit the 10-11 I was aiming for.  Did away with the fixed ladder, looking at those reference shots, it was not present.  Not sure if that is true of all ships of that era, but I think it is a better sacrifice then over additional gun ports.

Just under 2500 parts so far, I think I am on track with my ~3000 part cap (might go over a bit)...

Posted Image
Posted Image

Edited by SuperSirLink, 18 January 2012 - 05:46 AM.


#45 Foremast Jack

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 06:45 AM

While she does look more impressive with all those gun ports, it's not the most historically accurate thing. Besides I really don't think you need to reduce the spacing to squeeze in more guns. I think once the full length of the gunwale is made you'll have enough. But I guess we can only wait and see.
"You don't make friends with the foremast jacks, lad.
They'll think you weak; despise you in the end."
                           - Captain Jack Aubrey

#46 SuperSirLink

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Posted 19 January 2012 - 12:27 AM

Think I will tweak with them more once I get the rest built as you say.  That should give me a better feel of the balance...

#47 SuperSirLink

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Posted 21 January 2012 - 09:04 PM

Here's another update...

Posted Image
Posted Image

Thanks to Foremast Jack for the help and ideas on the gun ports and covers!

#48 Captain Blackmoor

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Posted 21 January 2012 - 11:40 PM

It's looking quite good already!
I would only suggest to remove the grey line between the prefab hull and the gundeck before the progress is at a later state. The ship is too high, it looks tremendous, but if I look at the height it's almost equal to a ship with two gundecks.
You can see this on the large wall behind the figurehead. I don't know where the waterline exactly is, but if it is at the bottom of the prefab hulls your ship's guns would be about 5 meters above the water surface.

I'd suggest to take this point into consideration, and then it might become one of the best frigates I've seen in digital LEGO!

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#49 Foremast Jack

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 12:46 AM

I think Captain Blackmoor has a good point here. To be more accurate your line of gun-ports need to be about where the tan line is. That is, unless the pre-fab hulls are all supposed to be below the waterline.
"You don't make friends with the foremast jacks, lad.
They'll think you weak; despise you in the end."
                           - Captain Jack Aubrey

#50 SuperSirLink

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 03:31 AM

View PostCaptain Blackmoor, on 21 January 2012 - 11:40 PM, said:

It's looking quite good already!
I would only suggest to remove the grey line between the prefab hull and the gundeck before the progress is at a later state. The ship is too high, it looks tremendous, but if I look at the height it's almost equal to a ship with two gundecks.
You can see this on the large wall behind the figurehead. I don't know where the waterline exactly is, but if it is at the bottom of the prefab hulls your ship's guns would be about 5 meters above the water surface.

I'd suggest to take this point into consideration, and then it might become one of the best frigates I've seen in digital LEGO!
No thats a good point indeed.... Didn't see that, till you said something...

I am guess your talking about this layer:
Posted Image

I was trying to have the lower deck high enough for mini figs, but I guess because that deck was partially submerged it makes the whole ship seem taller...

The lowest I could drop it is 3 plates.  Is is worth going back and reworking it for that?  Do you think it would make a difference?




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