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Cannon's VS Carronades


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42 replies to this topic  – Started by Admiral Starwind , Aug 31 2006 05:12 PM

#1 Admiral Starwind

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Posted 31 August 2006 - 05:12 PM

I just thought you guys might find this useful.

Carronades

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Originally called "the smasher" this short-barrelled, short-range weapon had more explosive power and its charge could propel a heavier ball. Measuring a little over four feet, it occupied less deck space, was more mobile and could do tremendous damage to an opponent, but it was limited to close range combat. Carronades could also fire canister, small, iron balls packed in a large tin can which burst when the gun was fired spraying the balls across the enemy's deck.

The carronade was intended as an auxiliary weapon not a ship's primary armament. Its use as the main weapon was a weakness of the British ships and this was revealled in combat with the Americans. Longer guns enabled the captain to damage the enemy before the carronades could be brought into use. Both types of guns were muzzle-loading with the ball being inserted into the end it came out. The gunpowder encased in a cloth or paper bag was also called a cartridge and contained the right amount of black powder for the weight the iron ball to be fired.

Cannon

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The calibre of the cannon - 'the long gun' - was based on the weight of the shot it fired. These ranged from 4-pounders to 32-pounders. The cannon could measure ten feet in length and weigh as much as 6500 pounds. Each could require a crew of as many as 14. With a charge of black powder equal to one third the weight of the shot, the cannon depending on its elevation, could propel a 32-pounder more than 1000 yards smashing sides and scattering huge splinters that were as deadly as shot itself. The carronade weighing 2000 pounds required a crew of seven men and could fire a 32-pound canister effectively at a range of 500 yards.

The rapidity of fire of a gun crew of five depended on how well they worked together. The "exercise of Scourge's guns" consisted of loosening the gun from its lashing and removing the tompion, a wooden plug from the muzzle of the gun. To load a cannon the loader pushed a flannel bag of gunpowder down its bore, followed by the shot (cannon ball) and a wad to prevent the shot from falling out. This was rammed home tightly. Next the "gun was run out," care being taken to properly arrange the ropes by which the gun was secured so as not to be foiled on the recoil. A cartridge of powder was opened and plunged down the touch-hole in the top of the cannon to prime the gun. The cannon was then pointed or aimed. The gun's captain fired it by applying a slow match to the touch-hole then leaping clear of the recoil which returned the gun to its loading position. The gun was sponged to extinguish any remains of the fire and the process quickly repeated. A 42-pound shot was the largest a man could reasonably load on board ships in action.

The ammunition for all these cannons was a solid, cast iron ball of various diameters. This ball had the greatest range of any ammunition and was often heated red hot in a shot oven, an iron box on wheels burning charcoal. The heated ball set wooden ships and forts on fire. Chain and bar shot in which two balls were connected by a chain or bar were also used especially in the navy where they could tear rigging and sails.

#2 Aaron Morse

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Posted 31 August 2006 - 11:53 PM

Love your carronade!  Looks similar to one I'm using one the HMS Challenger...I'll definately borrow some of this though (yours looks better)

Aaron
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#3 Legeaux

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Posted 01 September 2006 - 06:28 AM

Nice work, Admiral!

It makes me wish Lego produced an inverted 2x2x2 cone - imagine a cone with a stud (rather than rod) sized opening at the narrow end.

I like the cannon... but would be loath to use the prefab gun carriage on other than prefab cannon - although there are reasonable brick build carriages for the prefab cannon, I guess.

Any thought of building a slide, rather than a wheeled carriage for the carronade?
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#4 Admiral Starwind

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Posted 01 September 2006 - 07:18 AM

Yeah twould be fairly easy too ill give it some thought and see what i can crack out.

#5 El Bucanero

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Posted 02 September 2006 - 10:39 AM

That is a very nice carronade, but too pointy, I think it would look better without the 1 x 1 cone on top, and the cannon better with the harry potter wand style stick, as mentioned before, you did a great job on those cannons, keep it up *y*

#6 Mister Phes

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Posted 02 September 2006 - 08:01 PM

Admiral Starwind this is a brilliant thread!  You have done an excellent job dispalying your creations as well as providing some research behind the subject matter.  I am very impressed!

I must admit I had never heard of a cannonade before so its great when you laddies educate me like that!

#7 Admiral Starwind

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Posted 03 September 2006 - 12:43 AM

Well carronade/cannonade Carriage you demanded and such I developed not sure if I like it but it serves its purpose.

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#8 Mister Phes

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Posted 03 September 2006 - 07:55 AM

Admiral Starwind are you designing these cannoades in MClad?

#9 Admiral Starwind

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Posted 03 September 2006 - 08:23 AM

Yes sir.

#10 Mister Phes

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Posted 05 September 2006 - 04:34 AM

Sir?  Yes, very nice!  Carry about your business then laddie!

You seem to use MClad a lot which is probably a good thing because you're not limited by the number of pieces you have.  Do you suppose you will ever make these cannonades out of real LEGO?

#11 Admiral Starwind

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Posted 05 September 2006 - 09:02 AM

unfortunately no i do not have the pieces i need to build them as i usually despise technic lego and quite a few pieces of this are technic and if i ever find my collection its pretty much all old school 80's lego.

#12 El Bucanero

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Posted 08 September 2006 - 03:25 PM

I made a carronade for the Unpredictable
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I don't know what is the strange red spot in the upper right corner, maybe it's a ghost...
In action at the HMS Unpredictable:
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Mr Tiber

#13 Tordenskjold

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Posted 08 September 2006 - 07:10 PM

Great carronade and cannon mr Tiber.  but doesnt the muzzle look small when we know taht a carronade muzzle would be very large compared to the cannon?

and one other thing ive been thinking of is  that of making smaller guns for the possibillity to  have different sized guns on the same ship.  the prefab carriage with wheels is 4 stud wide and even if you made your own barrel the whole gun would still be 4 wide. have tried to build a smaller one but without sucess.  do you have any thoughts of that mr Tiber?

#14 El Bucanero

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Posted 08 September 2006 - 07:25 PM

I think you are confusing me with admiral starwind, why does everyone confuses me with someone else if it comes to cannons!!

#15 Tordenskjold

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Posted 08 September 2006 - 07:58 PM

View PostMr Tiber, on Sep 8 2006, 09:25 PM, said:

I think you are confusing me with admiral starwind, why does everyone confuses me with someone else if it comes to cannons!!
sorry for that mr tber. but i was looking at your carronade when i wrote that :-$
but your and admiral starwind's  carronade look almost as the same,

#16 Aaron Morse

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Posted 08 September 2006 - 09:51 PM

View PostMr Tiber, on Sep 8 2006, 07:25 PM, said:

I think you are confusing me with admiral starwind, why does everyone confuses me with someone else if it comes to cannons!!


Ah didnt learn from the keelhauling I gave you last time eh?!  Now you gotta go and pick on another Canuck...well.  Now you'll have to walk da plank matey!

Aaron

PS I an effort to avoid getting blamed for flaming, I hereby attest that my comment to make Mr Tiber walk the plank is purely in jest and I have no actual ship with a plank to make him walk off, and even if I did own a ship with a plank, Mr Tiber is a contributing member to this forum and therefore has immunity from such acts being performed on his person
�The average man will bristle if you say his father was dishonest, but he will brag a little if he discovers that his great-grandfather was a pirate.�

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#17 Admiral Starwind

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Posted 09 September 2006 - 04:07 AM

As for a design of a smaller cannon if you check out my thread on the St Lawrence i implemented smaller cannons on sliding rails in and effort to save space and i think they would work well as a substitute as well as the rig i designed should be able to handle othe muzzle sizes.

#18 El Bucanero

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Posted 09 September 2006 - 09:54 AM

View PostAaron Morse, on Sep 8 2006, 11:51 PM, said:

View PostMr Tiber, on Sep 8 2006, 07:25 PM, said:

I think you are confusing me with admiral starwind, why does everyone confuses me with someone else if it comes to cannons!!


Ah didnt learn from the keelhauling I gave you last time eh?!  Now you gotta go and pick on another Canuck...well.  Now you'll have to walk da plank matey!

Aaron

PS I an effort to avoid getting blamed for flaming, I hereby attest that my comment to make Mr Tiber walk the plank is purely in jest and I have no actual ship with a plank to make him walk off, and even if I did own a ship with a plank, Mr Tiber is a contributing member to this forum and therefore has immunity from such acts being performed on his person
How nice, but wasn't it Jack Dagger who got keelhauled?? Or did he gave you the dubloon??

#19 Aaron Morse

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Posted 09 September 2006 - 11:24 PM

View PostMr Tiber, on Sep 9 2006, 09:54 AM, said:

View PostAaron Morse, on Sep 8 2006, 11:51 PM, said:

View PostMr Tiber, on Sep 8 2006, 07:25 PM, said:

I think you are confusing me with admiral starwind, why does everyone confuses me with someone else if it comes to cannons!!


Ah didnt learn from the keelhauling I gave you last time eh?!  Now you gotta go and pick on another Canuck...well.  Now you'll have to walk da plank matey!

Aaron

PS I an effort to avoid getting blamed for flaming, I hereby attest that my comment to make Mr Tiber walk the plank is purely in jest and I have no actual ship with a plank to make him walk off, and even if I did own a ship with a plank, Mr Tiber is a contributing member to this forum and therefore has immunity from such acts being performed on his person
How nice, but wasn't it Jack Dagger who got keelhauled?? Or did he gave you the dubloon??

Arr ye be right...I never did get my dubloon but I believe I was promised to be introduced to his wenches
�The average man will bristle if you say his father was dishonest, but he will brag a little if he discovers that his great-grandfather was a pirate.�

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#20 El Bucanero

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Posted 12 September 2006 - 07:02 PM

Promises are like twigs: easily broken, we'll just have to keelhaul him again *skull*

#21 Aaron Morse

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Posted 13 September 2006 - 09:40 PM

maybe he enjoys getting his keel hauled...maybe we should flog him...although there are those who enjoy that too.



View PostMr Tiber, on Sep 12 2006, 03:02 PM, said:

Promises are like twigs: easily broken, we'll just have to keelhaul him again *skull*

�The average man will bristle if you say his father was dishonest, but he will brag a little if he discovers that his great-grandfather was a pirate.�

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#22 BaronSat

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Posted 19 September 2006 - 06:29 PM

I found Admiral Starwind post very usefull as I was studying a cannon that would be made out of bricks and I made that : Posted Image

There a lot of possibilities, thanks Admiral.
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#23 El Bucanero

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Posted 19 September 2006 - 06:49 PM

Clever design! The only thing I don't like is the ''pipe'' as muzzle, I like it better without it...May I steal...errr borrow this design? yes? thank you :-D

#24 Admiral Starwind

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Posted 19 September 2006 - 07:03 PM

You are more than welcome Baron

#25 BaronSat

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Posted 19 September 2006 - 07:20 PM

View PostMr Tiber, on Sep 19 2006, 08:49 PM, said:

What a smart design! The only thing I don't like is the ''pipe'' as muzzle, I like it better without it...May I steal...errr borrow this design? yes? thank you :-D  even if you said no, that would just be bad luck...

Pipe as muzzle? Is it the technic tube that you don't like?

Yes you can borrow the design as long as you don't forget to send me a case of bottle of grog *wacko* and of course tell all your friends (and the girls, don't forget the girls) how great I am :-D

What I didn't like was the grey round plate. I first put it there to equalize the grey technic cam because I have no black ones (poor little Eric  8-| ) but I removed it for my new MOC that I'll post separately. Soon.
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