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Best way to find Ideal / best angle in LDD


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#1 bbqqq

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Posted 11 September 2011 - 01:19 AM

To find an ideal / best angle or distance (2D or 3D).
I draw a quick sketch on a drawing software then let computer do the calculation.
This method get better result than just use auto hinge align tools in many case.
Make LDD model as perfect as possible. (fix all un-want but LDD allow slightly stud offset or slightly bricks collisions, gaps)
It fix all errors and collisions in my update version of 10196 Grand Carousel.(work in progress).
Make 10221 Super Star Destroyer much easier to assembly.
I would like to help anyone if you don't have this kind of software.
Of course if you good in mathematics, you can calculate by a scientific calculator or even just by pen and paper! :tongue:

Thanks to 'Bojan Pavsic's information:
"LDD works with more then 2 decimals... It only displays/rounds to 2 of them."

Posted Image
bbqqqbbqqq_110911a by Nachapon S., on Flickr

Posted Image

Edited by bbqqq, 23 September 2011 - 04:19 AM.

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#2 bbqqq

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 11:10 AM

I just complete LDD 10196 Grand Carousel with less errors (no decals, wrong roof)
This is so far the most difficult set I built by LDD.

10030 Imperial Star Destroyer is more difficult  here

Harder than 10179 Ultimate Collector's Millennium Falcon.(year ago I built both set use LDD 3.x without unlock universal mode.here)
why? please see the 2nd pic.

LXF
Posted Image
find_bbqqqbbqqq_at_youtube_grand by Nachapon S., on Flickr

Three structure dimension are not ideal studs distance(have decimals): 14.x 25.x 35.x
This is ok to build with real brick, but you will get assembly problem in LDD when connect all of them together.

Posted Image
gran dim by Nachapon S., on Flickr
I forgot to -1 when count the studs so I correct it.

Edited by bbqqq, 28 September 2011 - 07:17 PM.

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#3 nemo

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 12:07 PM

Crikey! :wacko:

It would be good to be able to “fix” certain bricks in place and then allow other hinged parts to move freely (a FEMS implementation). Not trivial though.

#4 hrontos

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Posted 18 September 2011 - 08:36 PM

View Postbbqqq, on 15 September 2011 - 11:10 AM, said:

I just complete LDD 10196 Grand Carousel with less errors (no decals, wrong roof)
This is so far the most difficult set I built by LDD.
Harder than 10179 Ultimate Collector's Millennium Falcon.(year ago I built both set use LDD 3.x without unlock universal mode.)
why? please see the 2nd pic.

LXF
Posted Image
find_bbqqqbbqqq_at_youtube_grand by Nachapon S., on Flickr

Three structure dimension are not ideal studs distance(have decimals)
5.0273xx   40.2187xx and  16.8995xx
This is ok to build with real brick, but you will get assembly problem in LDD when connect all of them together.

Posted Image
grand by Nachapon S., on Flickr


I am not sure how build all those angles, if you made some calculation in advance on paper or something like that. I usually do it in tha way which is not natural with real bricks, but works easily with LDD. I mark a center of such circle. Put the a one stud brick (either 1x1 plate or 2x2 tile with stud in center) this serves as a center of rotation for hinge tool. Then I put leftmost and rightmost brick, connect them by beam accross center of rotation and rotate using hinge and by entering exact number of degrees (step is 360/number of angles - 22.5 for your largest circle). This way the result is easier to calculate and more accurate then specifying angles between neighbouring bricks (which is natural build order when working with real bricks).

#5 Superkalle

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Posted 18 September 2011 - 08:39 PM

@bbbqqq: I moved your post with wanted features to this topic: http://www.eurobrick...showtopic=58396
Eurobricks Digital Design Forum - for all your LDD and Ldraw cravings

#6 bbqqq

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Posted 19 September 2011 - 01:42 AM

View Postnemo, on 15 September 2011 - 12:07 PM, said:

Crikey! :wacko:
It would be good to be able to “fix” certain bricks in place and then allow other hinged parts to move freely (a FEMS implementation). Not trivial though.
Thanks for your comment and good idea.
I wish LDD5 will have som of these functions: http://www.eurobrick...dpost&p=1073211

View PostSuperkalle, on 18 September 2011 - 08:39 PM, said:

@bbbqqq: I moved your post with wanted features to this topic: http://www.eurobrick...showtopic=58396
Thanks Superkalle, I forgot that I can just make a link for what I already posted. http://www.eurobrick...dpost&p=1073211

Edited by bbqqq, 19 September 2011 - 01:48 AM.

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#7 bbqqq

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Posted 19 September 2011 - 02:35 AM

View Posthrontos, on 18 September 2011 - 08:36 PM, said:

I am not sure how build all those angles, if you made some calculation in advance on paper or something like that. I usually do it in tha way which is not natural with real bricks, but works easily with LDD. I mark a center of such circle. Put the a one stud brick (either 1x1 plate or 2x2 tile with stud in center) this serves as a center of rotation for hinge tool. Then I put leftmost and rightmost brick, connect them by beam accross center of rotation and rotate using hinge and by entering exact number of degrees (step is 360/number of angles - 22.5 for your largest circle). This way the result is easier to calculate and more accurate then specifying angles between neighbouring bricks (which is natural build order when working with real bricks).

Thanks for your comment and share your good mathod (same way I use before). I just draw the sketch and use dimension tools to mark the angle  and distances I need. The polygons one is not for to know the angles (this case angle are fixed by the parts), but for check the ideal distances. I didn't use any data on the left side for build this. We know that big structure of real brick always much more flexible than than LDD one.
In this case how to place "leftmost and rightmost" brick with a 35.1914 studs apart? Could you try to make just all main supporting structures and try to put all of them together? I found the answer: To build a fine trim/adjust-able bow compass. Then use Precision move method HERE to adjust the redious to 17.5957(35.1914 /2) Meybe I just over do this. Anyway, I think this sketch method can use in most cases not just for polygons type (sometimes no center point, different length of hinge arms).

Edited by bbqqq, 23 September 2011 - 04:17 AM.

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#8 bbqqq

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Posted 21 September 2011 - 09:46 AM

I found this new technic when try to build 10030 Imperial Star Destroyer.
http://www.eurobrick...dpost&p=1077271

Edited by bbqqq, 21 September 2011 - 10:05 AM.

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#9 RoxYourBlox

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Posted 22 September 2011 - 06:21 PM

Nice topic.  This method was how I made my models here, except that I did the trigonometry on paper+calculator and/or in Microsoft Excel.  (Actually I've never tried the hinge align tool!)  Given any right triangle, it was easy to find a triangle with all sides ~= integers by copy/pasting equations until they would yield a size that fit (<0.05 stud error).

In cases where I couldn't calculate the angle beforehand, I would rotate the side of a polyhedron until it would collide in either direction, then average the two collision angles, manually input the predicted angle (trial and error), then take the average of the two most extreme angles that LDD would accept.  A completed polyhedron with no errors (doublecheck by saving, closing LDD, and reopening the file) was always a good reason to celebrate.

At other times, LDD errors could be overcome (manipulated) by adding connected hinges+plates of polygons in different sequences.  The update from LDD3 to LDD4 solved a lot of the leeway though; LDD is more accurate now than it had been.

Edited by RoxYourBlox, 22 September 2011 - 06:35 PM.


#10 bbqqq

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Posted 23 September 2011 - 07:54 AM

View PostRoxYourBlox, on 22 September 2011 - 06:21 PM, said:

Nice topic.  This method was how I made my models here, except that I did the trigonometry on paper+calculator and/or in Microsoft Excel.  (Actually I've never tried the hinge align tool!)  Given any right triangle, it was easy to find a triangle with all sides ~= integers by copy/pasting equations until they would yield a size that fit (<0.05 stud error).

In cases where I couldn't calculate the angle beforehand, I would rotate the side of a polyhedron until it would collide in either direction, then average the two collision angles, manually input the predicted angle (trial and error), then take the average of the two most extreme angles that LDD would accept.  A completed polyhedron with no errors (doublecheck by saving, closing LDD, and reopening the file) was always a good reason to celebrate.

At other times, LDD errors could be overcome (manipulated) by adding connected hinges+plates of polygons in different sequences.  The update from LDD3 to LDD4 solved a lot of the leeway though; LDD is more accurate now than it had been.

Thanks 'RoxYourBlox' for sharing you useful method and amazing works. I download them all when I saw it on the first page. They are so creative and very very impressive. I agree that the good creation not have to be most accurate.

The sketch method also work in 3D. I plan to build a LDD diamond model with standard ideal Brilliant(diamond cut)WiKi Link. I draw it to a solid model before so I can check all the angles and distances. I already post how to move LDD brick to any decimal distance in any direction x/y/z here.

Edited by bbqqq, 23 September 2011 - 11:13 AM.

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#11 kcoon

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 02:55 AM

hi erm simple question :D i have plotted out and try manually calculating the angles but i got no where :( what was the computer program that you used to calculate this ? :D

#12 bbqqq

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 03:19 AM

View Postkcoon, on 20 September 2012 - 02:55 AM, said:

hi erm simple question :D i have plotted out and try manually calculating the angles but i got no where :( what was the computer program that you used to calculate this ? :D

You can use windows's calculator.
Choose View->Scientific mode.
For example the 34.92°
click [3][/][10][=] ->0.3 (3 & 10 are studs length)
then click botton [Inv] then [sin^-1] = 17.457603123722092290246045792445
17.457603123722092290246045792445 x2 = 34.91520624744418458049209158489°

Edited by bbqqq, 20 September 2012 - 03:26 AM.

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#13 kcoon

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 04:04 AM

haha thanks for the prompt reply...

here's my problem >.<

i'm trying to build the super star destroyer.......

Posted Image

i could work half of the angle 1 / 10 inv tan = 5.71 but couldn't work out the rest ahaha... i sucked at math :(


View Postbbqqq, on 20 September 2012 - 03:19 AM, said:

You can use windows's calculator.
Choose View->Scientific mode.
For example the 34.92°
click [3][/][10][=] ->0.3 (3 & 10 are studs length)
then click botton [Inv] then [sin^-1] = 17.457603123722092290246045792445
17.457603123722092290246045792445 x2 = 34.91520624744418458049209158489°


#14 bbqqq

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 04:21 AM

View Postkcoon, on 20 September 2012 - 04:04 AM, said:

haha thanks for the prompt reply...

here's my problem >.<

i'm trying to build the super star destroyer.......

i could work half of the angle 1 / 10 inv tan = 5.71 but couldn't work out the rest ahaha... i sucked at math :(

How long is the right edge? Angles will change with the length of it.
Could you post LDD file or pic?

Edited by bbqqq, 20 September 2012 - 04:21 AM.

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#15 kcoon

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 04:36 AM

ops i forget the right edge... the value is 1.. :D


i will post an LDD image tonite once i get home :D thanks again for the reply

Edited by kcoon, 20 September 2012 - 04:38 AM.


#16 bbqqq

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 04:57 AM

View Postkcoon, on 20 September 2012 - 04:36 AM, said:

ops i forget the right edge... the value is 1.. :D


i will post an LDD image tonite once i get home :D thanks again for the reply

Please try 9.52728338° & 80.47271662° (sum=90°)

This case only two free edges, so can use hinge align tool to make the angles, too.
Posted Image

Edited by bbqqq, 20 September 2012 - 05:15 AM.

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#17 kcoon

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 06:32 PM

Thanks for the help, i still spent like 4 hours to figured it out as if i used the values provided, the front still colided ... so i read most of your tips then finally understood what you said..... manual adjusted the angles to compensate the front to the back... end up with the following values :D

https://fbcdn-sphoto...392455092_n.jpg

should work now and i hope there are no more challenges to complete it ahaha :D

once again thanks

Edited by Calabar, 20 September 2012 - 10:28 PM.
Oversized image converted in text link (maximum size allowed is 800x600).





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