26 replies to this topic

[Weil]

Hi all, this was motivated by looking at Tomcats comic

Do people plan on combining the Royal Guard minifigure with the Imperial Guards? If so do you plan to use the minifigures together unchanged or do you plan on using components of the Royal Guard minifigure to add variety to the Imperial Guard soldiers?

Below is a picture of what I'm doing, I'm using the Royal Guard's head on an Imperial Guard's body to make a grenadier and using the Royal Guard's torso with an Imperial Guard head to make a dragoon. I plan on using these alongside the regular Imperial Guards (2009 wave) in a future MOC. Would be great to know how other people plan on combining them.

[Skipper]

First off, I don't own any. However if I did I'd keep them separate, because I think the CMF hats are over-sized and over-furry for anything but a Canadian Changing of the Guards MOC (that being said, I am no shako expert so this is just my aesthetic preferences).

The CMF torso would be great as the Duke of Wellington, and IMO an improvement over this (scroll down) by Bonaparte.


I like the swaps you made, especially the Grenadier.

Edited by Skipper, 03 September 2011 - 08:35 PM.

[Norrington]

I personally don't much like the combination of the IG torso with the RG busby/head. It just doesn't feel quite right to me.

That being said, I think otherwise the parts from the RG (busby and torso in particular) are very useful and will probably be very desirable for MOCs and "army stuff". It's a very neat design, in my opinion.

[Tomcat RIO]

I'm probably going to get a few more to make French Bluecoat greanadiers.

And custom dark blue torsos to make the Danish Royal Life Guard - I'm guessing TLG had probably made lots of them and presented to the Royalty.    

I'd think that the bearskin hats are overly larged as mentioned, best saved for ceremonial guards MOC, band and drum majors, special troops and the like. But the torso does add variety to the Redcoat formations IMO.

[RichardRobins]

I've a small collection of 2009 era redcoats which I'll be intergrating with the Royal Guards in a Port Royal Moc *someday*

Honestly I much prefer my Imperial Soldier(Bluecoat) army, so haven't had much motivation lately to work with my Imperial Guards/Royal Guards.

[Ardelon]

I wouldn’t mix them together, as the grenadier seems to me to be from the 19th century, as opposed to the 18th century IG. But that’s just me being too pedantic, I guess. They don’t look that out of place together.

[Weil]

Ardelon, on 07 September 2011 - 07:17 PM, said:

I wouldn’t mix them together, as the grenadier seems to me to be from the 19th century, as opposed to the 18th century IG. But that’s just me being too pedantic, I guess. They don’t look that out of place together.

I would say the Imperial Guards fit into the late 18th century and early 19th century. The napoleonic wars took place in the 19th century and they're used by people to depict that frequently.

If you look at the uniforms in the picture below showing uniforms from the Napoleonic War era then I think it's fair to say that the Imperial Guards have a pretty good resemblance with the uniforms on the left and the Royal Guard hat isn't that bad a match for the hats of the grenadiers on the right?

Therefore if I am to dream up that the Imperial Guards have a company of Grenadiers that look like the minifig in my first post then I don't think I am being unreasonable.




I am of course not telling everyone they should use them! I'm just explaining my reasoning.

[Darkdragon]

I think it looks great. If I built armies, I'd probably do something like that too.

[Captain Blockbeard]

Not to divert the topic, but I'm trying to do something similar. I have been considering converting one of my spare CMF Royal Guards into something resembling an English Horseguard as seen in the picture below. My parts combination is:

CMF Royal Guard torso (yellow hands replaced with white)
CMF Royal Guard head
white legs
white epalettes
[need an appropriate helmet]
white Minifig, Plume Feather Large (Bricklink's name for it)

Note that I'm ignoring the armor, instead opting to let the CMF torso pattern show.
If anyone has any suggestions for the helmet, I would appreciate it.




Back on topic, I really appreciate your attempt to mix and combine the parts of the IG and the CMF Royal Guard. The IG with the bearksin hat doesn't look too bad, considering it fits a Lego cartoony/exaggerated styling of a Royal Guard.

[Weil]

I think one of these is your best option:

Dragon Knight Helmet
Fireman helmet
Pith Helmet
Morion Helmet

But none of them are an ideal fit. Nice to see someone elses ideas, if someone wanted to do it with the armour then this torso might work well in red.

[Captain Blockbeard]

Thanks for the suggestions. I was considering the Dragon Knight Helmet, though I wish it came in either pearl gray or custom chrome. I hadn't thought of the pith helmet, but that might work even better, especially, again, if it came in pearl gray or custom chrome. I'll have to check Bricklink to see if anyone has modified either of those helmets to that effect.

[Ardelon]

Weil, on 07 September 2011 - 09:06 PM, said:

I would say the Imperial Guards fit into the late 18th century and early 19th century. The napoleonic wars took place in the 19th century and they're used by people to depict that frequently.

If you look at the uniforms in the picture below showing uniforms from the Napoleonic War era then I think it's fair to say that the Imperial Guards have a pretty good resemblance with the uniforms on the left and the Royal Guard hat isn't that bad a match for the hats of the grenadiers on the right?

Therefore if I am to dream up that the Imperial Guards have a company of Grenadiers that look like the minifig in my first post then I don't think I am being unreasonable.

I am of course not telling everyone they should use them! I'm just explaining my reasoning.

The bearskin cap and the face with the chinstrap of course fit nicely into the IG era (18th to early 19th century, as you said). But uniforms of that age tend to be more gaudy, and cut in a way to reveal the white shirt underneath (as in all the imperial soldier/guard incarnations), in contrast to the tider and more solid look of the mid to late 19th century (as in the grenadier). It’s not a big deal, though I would avoid combining them, like I would avoid combining bluecoats with the wild west cavalry torsos.

On a side note, I think the combining the new highlander kilt legs with IGs or grenadiers would make for a nice highlander unit, no?

[tedbeard]

Skipper, on 03 September 2011 - 08:23 PM, said:

...I think the CMF hats are over-sized and over-furry for anything but a Canadian Changing of the Guards

OK, just a little FYI. The Governor General's Foot Guards and the Canadian Grenadier Guards who perform the Changing of the Gard Ceremony on Parliament Hill in Ottawa, Canada are just our version of the British Guards Regiments:

Grenadier Guards:


Coldstream Guards:


Scots Guards:


Irish Guards:


Welsh Guards:


Edit: Apparently the Van Doos (Royal 22e Regiment) also wear the bearskins in full dress.

Edited by tedbeard, 10 September 2011 - 04:57 PM.

[Scorpiox]

I don't mean to be pushy or anything, but they are Grenadier Guards, not Royal guards. The Grenadier Guards is an actual regiment that wear that ceremonial uniform, Royal guards do not exist but I assume they are a nickname for Grenadier Guards.

I know this because I recently went to London (and to the LEGO shop  )and at the end of the mall at the gates of Buckingham palace there is a sign. It shows the Grenadier Guards, Coldstream Guards, Scots Guards, Irish Guards and Welsh Guards, in their ceremonial uniforms and how to tell them apart. The main difference is order of buttons and plumes but the afore mentioned regiments are what the CMF is based on (most likely the GG as the buttons and lack of plume match. I wish I had taken a pic of that sign to show you. There is no need to mix and match parts to get a GG because the CMF is already one.


Oh and any Canadian changing of the guards is based on the British one, as Canada used to be a colony it has kept certain British traditions.

I'm sorry If that sounded rude but I just wanted to explain it to you. I apologise again but being Britsh I get frustrated at this sort of thing.

Edited by Scorpiox, 01 October 2011 - 10:36 AM.

[tedbeard]

Scorpiox, on 01 October 2011 - 10:23 AM, said:

I'm sorry If that sounded rude but I just wanted to explain it to you. I apologise again but being Britsh I get frustrated at this sort of thing.

And I get really frustrated at people who reply before reading the whole thread. I already posted a polite and informative reply which appeared directly above yours several weeks ago that corrected the earlier mistake. There was no need for another post.

[Scorpiox]

tedbeard, on 04 October 2011 - 04:54 PM, said:

And I get really frustrated at people who reply before reading the whole thread. I already posted a polite and informative reply which appeared directly above yours several weeks ago that corrected the earlier mistake. There was no need for another post.

Uh, I also get annoyed when people think their post gets priority, everyone has a right to post and what makes you so special that you can end discussions when you have said all you want to?  

Let's not turn this thread into a argument, but I rather think my post covered other topics that you didn't. For example, you did not say anything about how it was incorrect to call them Royal guards or what the CMF is likely to be based on. It is impossible to say everything there is to say, but someone might have a bright idea, so how is it fair to deny them a post?  

There is no point in assuming there is no need for a reply because you have obviously not covered everything (and neither have I), so people have a right to add to the discussion. I seconded a lot of what you said, that confirms it and makes it more understandable.  

If you look at your recent post you'll notice that it is comepletely unnessercary as all you said was how pointless my post was.That post was pointless, the mods are the ones who decide if something is spam, not you.

What I am saying here is that it isn't for you to say when there shouldn't be a reply. Also that you post was in no way superior to mine, as they both covered the same topic, so why does it matter if I post, the topic was not locked after all.  

Edited by Scorpiox, 04 October 2011 - 05:29 PM.

[Weil]

Ardelon, on 10 September 2011 - 02:07 AM, said:

The bearskin cap and the face with the chinstrap of course fit nicely into the IG era (18th to early 19th century, as you said). But uniforms of that age tend to be more gaudy, and cut in a way to reveal the white shirt underneath (as in all the imperial soldier/guard incarnations), in contrast to the tider and more solid look of the mid to late 19th century (as in the grenadier). It’s not a big deal, though I would avoid combining them, like I would avoid combining bluecoats with the wild west cavalry torsos.

On a side note, I think the combining the new highlander kilt legs with IGs or grenadiers would make for a nice highlander unit, no?

What you've said about the cut away to reveal the white shirt was common but by no means always the case. Have a look at this uniform for example:



As for this Royal Guard lingo business, most people in the thread have been referring to the Lego figure and its parts which Lego have called the 'Royal Guard' which therefore means in my eyes when referring to the mini-figure and the parts that make it up then it is more than reasonable to refer to it as this regardless of the name of specific real life soldiers that it represents.

[Ardelon]

Weil, on 04 October 2011 - 08:03 PM, said:

What you've said about the cut away to reveal the white shirt was common but by no means always the case. Have a look at this uniform for example:

Your picture proves my point – the militiaman of 1850 has a simple and solid red uniform, more typical of the 19th century.  In my view, the grenadier guard fits this style.

In comparison, the uniforms of the 18th century and the Napoleonic era were more “open”, revealing the white shirt, as well as more gaudy, with secondary colors like blue, green and gold, white lace around buttons, etc. The imperial guards of both incarnations fit this style perfectly.

The wikipedia article on redcoatshas nice pics which prove both of us correct – the general styles of the 18th and 19th centuries were as I described above, but there were exceptions which show that the grenadier torso wouldn’t look out of place in the Napoleonic era, which could be counted as part of the LEGO pirate era.

Nota Bene: I guess the indisputable canon name for the fig is Royal Guard, but I’ll keep calling him the Grenadier Guard or grenadier, because of the strong visual association with the British Grenadier Guards. The name "Royal Guard" seems too abstract, and could span from the Castle theme to the Imperial Royal Guard of the SW theme.

[Weil]

Ardelon, on 04 October 2011 - 10:10 PM, said:

Your picture proves my point – the militiaman of 1850 has a simple and solid red uniform, more typical of the 19th century.  In my view, the grenadier guard fits this style.

In comparison, the uniforms of the 18th century and the Napoleonic era were more “open”, revealing the white shirt, as well as more gaudy, with secondary colors like blue, green and gold, white lace around buttons, etc. The imperial guards of both incarnations fit this style perfectly.

The wikipedia article on redcoatshas nice pics which prove both of us correct – the general styles of the 18th and 19th centuries were as I described above, but there were exceptions which show that the grenadier torso wouldn’t look out of place in the Napoleonic era, which could be counted as part of the LEGO pirate era.

Nota Bene: I guess the indisputable canon name for the fig is Royal Guard, but I’ll keep calling him the Grenadier Guard or grenadier, because of the strong visual association with the British Grenadier Guards. The name "Royal Guard" seems too abstract, and could span from the Castle theme to the Imperial Royal Guard of the SW theme.

The Napoleonic Wars was entirely 19th century...

[Ardelon]

Weil, on 05 October 2011 - 01:30 AM, said:

The Napoleonic Wars was entirely 19th century...

Early 19th century, i.e. still in the spirit of the 18th century in uniform style (except the shakos, which were new, alongside some cavalry elements), weaponry and tactics. The Napoleonic wars had more in common with the wars of the mid to late 1700s (our pirate era) than those of the mid to late 1800s (our Grenadier guard era).

[legomonk]

early 19th century clothing and style inst different then late 18th century clothing and style. Same material same conditions same level of technology and industrialization. The setting is 19th but its early and that is the point of comparing it to 18th. I have seen and am searching for examples of poorer units in simple dress. late war could not afford the more fancy dress and lace brass and such are expensive at the very least time consuming to manufacture often "toggles" or buttons were wood and simple. just and example of cheaper uniform standards in late war. we are dealing with a time of painting not photography and such is the state that people want to see power and elegance not simplicity in uniform a painting of a soldier was a tool of propaganda especially for Napoleon. so examples of such poorer units conscripts and such do not exist as readily as the pretty boys in the nice clothes. lol!

The head I think is really useful and the "hat" is awesome and could be an elite unit or a royal guard/personal body guard unit.

I personally wanted to use the torso as maybe cannon crew who commonly dressed a little down the most line soldier.

Just my ever so humble opinion

[SkaForHire]

I don't think this has been said, but to the question of horseguard helmets, the dragon knight helmet does come in crome. I have a bunch of them from various sets in the late 90s and early 2000s. I think they may have made an appearance in one of the adventurers sets since then also.

I have been wondering where the guard fits into my army also. I think as ceremonial guards, band leaders, or some other non-combat position. Although, at 3.59 a pop from TRU, it is hard to justify building an army. But it is one of the few I know the bump pattern for, and I do pick them up. (I also pick up the Dwarf, and I would pick up the gladiator too if I knew the pattern) Does anyone know of a site with the bump patterns for the newest set of minifigs?

[legomonk]

off topic but the the gladiator is easy to figure out cuz of the helmet. i have 2 of them and a couple dwarfs i am so happy they keep adding "fantasy/historical" figs in the collector figs

[Hikaro Takayama]

I definitely mix them, well, sorta... I use the regular Imperial Guards (and Imperial Soldiers) to represent the regular Federal Marine Corps in my steampunkish post-apocalyptic setting (the enlisted and junior NCO's wear brodie helmets instead of shakos, though), the Imperial Armada soldiers as the elite "Black Morion" unit (kinda like the Marine Special Operations Regiment), and the Royal Guards as the Marine Corps Ceremonial Guard Unit (duties include guarding VIPs, Federal Embassies, etc)...

[Colonel Ponsonbrick]

I've put blue epaulettes on the Royal Guards, put them on white horses with blue saddles and they look just like the Scots Greys of Waterloo fame... Keeping the printed shakos for my line infantry.