Flipz, on 19 November 2012 - 08:37 AM, said:
My suggestions for Shaman:
*Allow Natural Respite to restore Ether, and retool Meditate into some sort of offensive ability. (Pros: the class will feel MUCH more fitting for a Barbarian, the benefeits MIGHT outweigh the cons of Blood Ritual as-is; Cons: this might OP Battle Mage, Blood Ritual would still be a major turn-off for potential Shamans)
*Re-tool Blood Ritual to have some sort of area-of-effect on enemies. (Pros: again, more Barbarian-like, damage output mostly outweighs the risk to party; Cons: while this balances the poison disadvantage, it makes the issue with undead worse, in a big way)
*Simply make Blood Ritual completely ineffective on undead. (Pros: least amount of change to the class as-is, preserving the flavor while at the same time making the class viable for players again. Cons: Blood Ritual is still the worst of the Cleric AC Shield rolls, Meditate is still somewhat contrary to the idea of a Barbarian.)
*Re-tool Blood Ritual in some other way (my mind keeps coming up with the idea of TRANSFERRING all effects, but I can't figure out why, perhaps I'm too tired right now
*some combination of the above.
Good points, Flipz. I personally think that the best options would be to not re-tool Meditate, but give the Shaman a different 4 roll (this way other classes aren't affected), and also tweaking the Blood Ritual.
Waterbrick Down, on 19 November 2012 - 04:28 PM, said:
So question of the slightly random time period. What are the advantages and disadvantages you see for the advanced classes. I'd be interested in knowing how they are perceived or evaluated (should you have already chosen one) and why exactly you chose the class you did.
Ooh, good discussion.
I went with Assassin mostly for RPing. It was the only class that fit Hybros at the time. He hadn't evolved much at that point, at least in the sense that pushed him towards another AC. As Flipz said, there are certain ACs that fit with BCs, and as a Rogue, Assassin was the way to go. I originally wanted to go Black Knight for it's power and ability to carry a shield.
However, after playing Assassin for a while, I've really come to love the class (so much so that I've considered passing up both Expert and Master Classes... good thing we can change back at will), and realize it's power. Perhaps it's the weapons and artifacts I have that make it so good for me, but it's really just awesome to play as. I gain large amounts of gold, I can fight from the back row (permanently if I bought a ranged weapon), I have the ability to OHKO, and a 2/3 chance to hit something (plus an AoE shield). I don't even need to fight from the front row, I can just stand in back with a melee weapon if I wanted to focus on assassinating. I really do think it's the most powerful offensive class out of any BC, AC, EC, or MC.
Like I said, it might just be my items and strategy. I have the income to buy infinite potions and nostrums, so I rarely have to worry about losing health. I'm permanently hastened, so that means a greater chance to assassinate something, or if necessary, time to heal myself. I also have the Bladerang, which can take out many enemies at once with OHKO.
So maybe it's not the class itself, but a strategy that one finds that fits in well with the class. I really do love playing Assassin though.
The main disadvantage, and it's a small one, is sometimes having to take big risks when attacking enemies. Assasssins generally have low health, and there are not many SP artifacts available for Rangers and Rogues. With big enemies, Assassins are more likely to get KO'd more than their shield-toting allies, for example in Quest 50. And with enemies that are immune to OHKO, the Assassin becomes considerably less powerful. I was very lucky to not get KOd or eaten in the final battle of Quest 44, and I had to fight from the front row to cause double damage.
For me, I chose Hunter as it fit Skrall's RPing the best, plus the ability to do a ton of damage without having to play elemental rock-paper-scissors was slightly appealing.
Agreed, that's where the Hunter's real advantage lies. You say a Ranger is better than a Hunter, but when we're taking into consideration the amount of damage a Hunter can deal, there's no competition (see Quest 30). Plus, you don't have to get any gems for those multipliers, and you have natural respite.
CorneliusMurdock, on 19 November 2012 - 04:52 PM, said:
Paladins are very much a support class and coming from knight gains the ability to heal and adding protection from special effects to the shield. I don't really think I've lost anything.
That being said, I am sometimes disappointed in the lack of offense for paladins. It's great to be able to protect the party but sometimes I really do want to be the one to take down the enemy. Or at least do something other than stand there with my shield in front of me. Or meditate repeatedly.
I've thought about changing class a few times to something with more of a punch but I don't think it would make sense for Cronk to be anything but a Paladin right now.
I agree, it was even frustrating for me when I hosted for you in Quest 29, when you were dealing so little damage. I would say though, as others have, that it's meant as more of a support class. I know not everyone likes to play as them, but this is what a Paladin is, and it's very powerful at that.
Dannylonglegs, on 19 November 2012 - 05:58 PM, said:
I chose the Druid path while developing my character and didn't even know what the Druid was at the time. I chose Cleric because of the two classes that made a Druid, Cleric had the least members. Before Heroica, despite my years of playing DnD, I had never played the party healer (generally speaking, I find Clerics boring), so I was a little disappointed when I saw that the Druid was primarily another Healer. I have since embraced it, and I now feel like Druid is one of the best classes out there!
Zepher, on 19 November 2012 - 06:00 PM, said:
Druid is hand-downs one of the best classes. I genuinely believe that every party should have one. They can deal with any bad situation. They are by far the most logical leap for healers.
I definitely agree. Danny, it's great to hear that you like you playing the class, because like I said many people prefer offense. Druid is a very powerful weapon, especially if they're permanently lucky like Erdathcath.
CallMePie, on 19 November 2012 - 07:25 PM, said:
Atramor chose Witch for several reasons. The Shield, actually, isn't one of them. Hex isn't really powerful, but the other pros of the class outweigh that more than enough for me. The thing that really pushed me over was the Witch's Talisman. At that point there was only one in the game, and nobody else seemed interested. After seeing how much destruction it could wreak with the Wyvern battle in Quest 14, I figured it was worth the leap. The high HP addition and the ability to heal made it a really self-sustaining class, that was a plus too. Special Mirror I thought would just be a fun little bonus, whereas with the stronger, more complex special skills coming up it's become one of my favorite features.
The only thing I miss from Rogue is the gold.
Interesting. I was just going over the Witch class in my head a few days ago, and I thought it to be one of the weaker classes. The Shield and Special Damage skills are definitely the highlights of it for me, but if you think about it, everything else is lacking. Without the Talisman I wouldn't even consider the class useful. It has a 1/3 chance to deal damage no more powerful than any other class, and at this point in the game poison does very little. And there will be a point where even deadly poison won't do much, which is why I've been an advocate for updated poison/deadly poisons (having them deal a set percent instead of a set amount of damage), but that's another debate.
Another reason I would never go Witch is because why bother with inflicting negative effects when you can just instakill?
Brickdoctor, on 19 November 2012 - 10:44 PM, said:
By the way, if you don't want to change your playing style and you plan to go for Mime, I think Warden's the only class in which the only change to your powers is entirely beneficial. The only power the Ranger has that the Mime doesn't is Aura, and Sentinel is usually just as good or better than Aura, and being part Cleric, the Mime can still heal himself without using Ether by rolling Shield. (you could argue that the Aura can intercept bad effects and Sentinel only prevents Damage, but by the time you get to Mime, you're probably facing enemies powerful enough that you don't want to intercept all the bad effects - and you're part Rogue, so you can always try to get some Gold and buy Elixirs, which become worth buying at the high stats of that high Level)
We will have to see about that. The Mime will present some very interesting strategies, probably most we haven't thought about yet. I agree, it does have it's disadvantages, but when you consider all the options it has, it can come in handy in any situation.